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View Full Version : you could make more old content free to play



Chacka_DDO
10-15-2017, 06:55 AM
I wonder why you basically don't follow the idea of the initial free to play model of DDO. As you released DDO Unlimited you made all content free to play that was originally released. Now you introduce here and there some additional free to play quests. But everything else remains pay to play no matter how old it is.
But would it make maybe more sense to make content free to play that is like five years or older?
Or lower the price by 20% of the initial price every year.
And everything new is pay to play or membership only?
This way it also not needs to introduce special free to play quests and new players see not that many coins when they want to start the game.
Someone said in this forum he often sees game reviews by DDO in which tester complain that the game is flooded by pay to play offers. And it seems to be almost nothing in DDO is free to play.

DDO maybe gets more attractive for new players and it is easier to turn back for players who stopped once playing DDO.
I know they could also restart with membership but the point and reason for my suggestion are obvious, the premium/pay to play model gets more and more obsolete for DDO without such a dynamic element.
I see few reasons that would argue against such a change.
One objection against this change could be, some players might feel disadvantaged because another gets something for free they had had to pay for. The problem is e.g. already treated in the vineyard parable (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_Vineyard). The only question is whether this objection is actually justified. And everyone has to answer that for themselves.
The advantage is you could communicate this so potential players know they could get something for free that was not free before, which is the main sales argument of free to play games in my opinion.

Antheal
10-16-2017, 03:44 AM
If Standing Stone Games were to do that, I think one way to do it would be to make the least-played adventure packs free to play.

That way, it should raise awareness of those packs and give them some much-needed love.

As to what adventure packs are the least played... I have no idea if SSG are able to access that information from their servers or whether they'd have to survey the player base.

Chacka_DDO
10-16-2017, 10:08 AM
If Standing Stone Games were to do that, I think one way to do it would be to make the least-played adventure packs free to play.

That way, it should raise awareness of those packs and give them some much-needed love.

As to what adventure packs are the least played... I have no idea if SSG is able to access that information from their servers or whether they'd have to survey the player base.

One of the reasons why I made this suggestion is in fact that I hope it will make it possible for the development team to touch so-called old content.
At the moment, if SSG touches old content it doesn't pay back. Because of most players bought it already, so there is just no reason to put development effort in this.
I could wish developers do there work for DDO because they love DDO so much. But I can not expect someone works for free.
My Idea is simple but I think effective.
Players pay for game progression because this is what every player wants, this includes even persons who never heard of DDO yet.
And what needs the most development effort? Progression!
But progression is already if something old is touched to work better like the class passes.
And progression is also if old adventure packs get an overhaul, so I think it is also here a fair deal if players pay for something like this.
And if players pay for it, SSG got a real reason to do it besides from good intentions.

If SSG makes an overhaul of “old” adventure pack you can sell it again as „new content“ because it is in fact renewed.
And sure this might include that someone who paid once for an adventure pack has to pay again for it when the overhaul is there.
But is it not better for him too if he has the option to buy a new better adventure pack?
If SSG chose a fair price for such overhauls I think this can be a win-win for SSG and the customers.
And one should also consider nothing lasts forever. If you buy a car it gets old one day and you need a new one and you cannot expect that it renews “magically” by itself and this of course for free.

Sure it might make sense to make only adventure packs free to play because they are not popular. And then SSG renews them with a higher priority.

So basically we want the same but I think the path is a bit different.
If old content is popular I think, it is not a reason to make it never free to play.
But it is a reason to evaluate why it is popular and see if you can use this knowledge for your next expansion pack and/or for a change for less popular old adventure packs.
DDO needs a more long-term business strategy to grow steadily.
I think the move to make DDO free to play was very successful. But the model is static and the next move is to make it dynamic.
This is only one of many needed moves in mine opinion. I'm trying to name SSG reasons why DDO is not as successful as it could be.
And of course this is only an opinion of mine, I don't expect SSG to do what I say, but I hope they consider it.

unbongwah
10-16-2017, 11:33 AM
At this point, I think it's more probable SSG will do to older quests what they did with Three Barrel Cove and Necro4: namely add epic / legendary versions of old content to entice veteran players back and give newer players more incentive to buy the old packs. After all, SSG doesn't make any money off of just giving old content away. And a big part of why these quests aren't run anymore is the XP and gear aren't worth the effort, which doesn't change just because the quests become free.

Chacka_DDO
10-16-2017, 12:20 PM
At this point, I think it's more probable SSG will do to older quests what they did with Three Barrel Cove and Necro4: namely add epic / legendary versions of old content to entice veteran players back and give newer players more incentive to buy the old packs. After all, SSG doesn't make any money off of just giving old content away. And a big part of why these quests aren't run anymore is the XP and gear aren't worth the effort, which doesn't change just because the quests become free.

This changes not if they become just only free to play but it changes if they renew something that became free and then sell it again.
This is what I told you here.

and just because I like to think about such things...
If SSG renews old content they can charge the players for it and this is just a fair policy in general in my opinion.
And I strongly believe that a fair sales model will be successful at the end with satisfied customers and profit for SSG.
And as a long-term goal, it could make DDO better and better over the years. Currently, DDO gets older and it is just outdated one day.
DDO can be the best MMO of the world in a few years or just part of computer-game-history.
This is in the hands of SSG their developers but also in the hands of the players.
The same as Apple was once almost bankrupt and is now the most valuable company in the stock market.
Believe it or not, but I believed apple can be big again as almost no one believed that they can.
Because they have a solid base business model. And this is hardware and software optimized with each other and easy to use for the customers. And the brand got a good reputation. But now they get too expensive again in my opinion and this will maybe make them fail again.
If DDO just survives and grow healthy I would be already happy enough.

Annex
10-16-2017, 03:00 PM
I would personally love to see a New Adventure Experience--a completely new, contiguous adventure story arc taking a character from Level 1 to Level 10 or so.

New Adventure Story Arc Part I--20 adventures to take your character from Level 1 to Level 5.
New Adventure Story Arc Part II--20 adventures to take your character from Level 6 to Level 10.

That sort of thing. If done well, it would completely eliminate new player problems like, "Where do I go now?", and, "Why is this Level X quest so much more difficult than that Level X quest?", and, "What the heck is the story of this game?". It would also give veterans an alternative leveling path. Finally, include Epic versions of everything where a Level 1 quest becomes Level 21 and so on, creating an alternate path for Epic Levels as well.

That is what I was hoping for from Ravenloft but...oh well.

awar1234
10-16-2017, 03:09 PM
SSG and the game GIVES FREE TURBINE PIONTS for favor.
Play the game and earn those FREE POINTS.....
Then spend those points on adventure packs.....

If you give something for free the perceived value is ZERO!
When a player earns the packs through favor the value is higher.

Do not bring the value of the game down by the "entitlement" philosophy.


No need to do what you are saying....

Chacka_DDO
10-16-2017, 04:27 PM
SSG and the game GIVES FREE TURBINE PIONTS for favor.
Play the game and earn those FREE POINTS.....
Then spend those points on adventure packs.....

If you give something for free the perceived value is ZERO!
When a player earns the packs through favor the value is higher.

Do not bring the value of the game down by the "entitlement" philosophy.


No need to do what you are saying....

It might surprise you but I know this.
And it changes nothing on the argument
But I fear you just don't want to read and understand the reasoning.

Lagin
10-16-2017, 06:22 PM
SSG and the game GIVES FREE TURBINE POINTS for favor.
Play the game and earn those FREE POINTS.....
Then spend those points on adventure packs.....



And it changes nothing on the argument
But I fear you just don't want to read and understand the reasoning.


Awar posted my thought.

As for yours, we don't need that, which line 2 of your post suggests we have.


I applaud your idea, really, it has merit. I do think there needs to be a few price-point changes, but nothing major.

Chacka_DDO
10-17-2017, 09:54 AM
Awar posted my thought.

As for yours, we don't need that, which line 2 of your post suggests we have.


I applaud your idea, really, it has merit. I do think there needs to be a few price-point changes, but nothing major.

The actual pricing and DDO points that can be worked out in DDO during the game are possibly influenced by this, but that does not change the argumentation.
My assumption is, price changes for the current content are not needed thereafter.

It is about adding a dynamic element to the free to play model.
I am convinced that this could be a more important and correct step.
However, the right measure decides that of the success.
So you need to know when old content can get free to play so that is not harmful.
And of course the pricing for such new content changes and extensions.
The benefits I expect should outweigh the disadvantage and you get at the end more players and more sales with it.
The risk is that players are waiting five years until the content gets free to play.
And you risk new players could have less to buy because the more old content is free to play then.
The main benefit is DDO gets less deterrent for new and returning players. This could generate more sales at the end.
And SSG has more reason to make the game as a whole better because the players have to pay for the progression of old content too.
With this move, you get the chance that you get more sales from your existing players.
And maybe more investment in the development team makes more sense for SSG thereafter.
Because then more and faster development generates more sales and this generates more profit.

But of course, the advice is easily given but decisions are hard to make.

Sherque
10-17-2017, 11:30 AM
There is a free favor system - so you basically get content (which includes everything on store like packs and races and mm) for free while lvling. Which sounds like free to play to me. You can get to your first cap and a tr with much less effort than before. No need to farm quests for 6-7 times in a row to get xp - just go straight for favor.
Giving away free content to everyone who's not even playing is kind of a waste of resources. So you either pay with your money or your time - which is usual grind system and it's already been here when I joined in 2010.
Also there are usual discounts several times a year - so if you want you get a pack really cheap.
No payment = no new content

Chacka_DDO
10-17-2017, 05:15 PM
There is a free favor system - so you basically get content (which includes everything on store like packs and races and mm) for free while lvling. Which sounds like free to play to me. You can get to your first cap and a tr with much less effort than before. No need to farm quests for 6-7 times in a row to get xp - just go straight for favor.
Giving away free content to everyone who's not even playing is kind of a waste of resources. So you either pay with your money or your time - which is usual grind system and it's already been here when I joined in 2010.
Also there are usual discounts several times a year - so if you want you get a pack really cheap.
No payment = no new content

I would suggest you should not just read the Titel.
Nevertheless, thank you for the probably well-intentioned advice. :)

Lokeal_The_Flame
11-09-2017, 02:24 PM
Only if they'd refund double the turbine point cost for each pack made free to play.....

Hafeal
11-09-2017, 02:32 PM
*shrug* While there is always room for improvement, the other games I play, and those that my kids and their friends play, are less "free" than DDO even though they are also "free to play".

DDO, to me, is fine in its pricing of old content. Especially given the point made several times that you can obtain it for free with perseverance.

DDO is tougher to learn and takes patience. Something I think that is lost on many players. So, I think player retention is less about the content, and more about the learning curve. You can throw in the arguments about the spread of the playerbase and difficulty to meet thernew players as well.

I have advoated for years we need a new starter zone. Maybe it will come after Ravenloft - which may be good if the graphics are as good as the Lammania forums are raving about.

Lagin
11-09-2017, 03:49 PM
DDO is tougher to learn and takes patience. Something I think that is lost on many players. So, I think player retention is less about the content, and more about the learning curve. You can throw in the arguments about the spread of the player-base and difficulty to meet the new players as well.

I have advocated for years we need a new starter zone. Maybe it will come after Ravenloft - which may be good if the graphics are as good as the Lammania forums are raving about.


Why is it, every time I reread your posts I learn something? You Impact, Memnir and a few others are the voice of reason, and I thank you guys for that. Not kidding bud.

D&D and DDO at it's core is a collegiate level game, and is lost on people that dont want to spend the time to learn the intricacies. Its always been that way, even way back when we thought a mummified bat and ring of feathers were uber loot. We had many players give up with the intense learning curve. Not sure we can effect a decent change to that w/out losing the uniqueness of the game.

Adding rep is futile, having you post more is substantial