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PsychoBlonde
06-10-2017, 08:31 AM
This might make a quick in-betweener update at some point . . . do heroic versions of the MotU quests and explores. Make them level 17, 18, 19.

It would add a good chunk of content availability without TOO much work, with the added benefit that you could flag for CITW while still shy of 20.

Arch-Necromancer
06-11-2017, 11:19 AM
Nice idea. Especially since intro quests (from The Lords of Dust to Beyond the Rift) already have heroic versions.

But I understand that making epic quests is more needed then more heroic content so it probably won't be a priority.

MasterKernel
06-12-2017, 04:43 AM
No. Just no.

Heroics have enough content to bring the character from 1 to 20 with going through every quest for 1 time only and there still would be like 10-15 heroic quests left behind. Why should the devs spend their time to make even more heroic quests that nobody gonna run though ?
They need to focus on the epic stuff, to make leveling from 20 to 30 possible without dailies and repeating.

FranOhmsford
06-12-2017, 06:55 AM
I'd have said yes OP except for the ludicrous idea of placing them at 17/18/19!

That's far too close to their Epic levels and Lvl 10/12/14 would be much better for covering levels that need extra quests.

EllisDee37
06-12-2017, 10:42 AM
It would be good for iconics starting in Eveningstar to have more to do without having to immediately go to Eberron. So maybe level 15?

Maybe the heroic version wouldn't require the LoD chain so that you could roll up a new iconic and step right into Impossible Demands?

dragons1ayer74
06-12-2017, 12:01 PM
I have said this for years these quest would be great for heroic and the battle for evening star feel a lot more heroic than epic IMO.

PsychoBlonde
06-12-2017, 07:31 PM
I'd have said yes OP except for the ludicrous idea of placing them at 17/18/19!

That's far too close to their Epic levels and Lvl 10/12/14 would be much better for covering levels that need extra quests.

Hmm, heroic Lords of Dust chain is level 16 on heroic, 20 on epic. The epic levels of the CITW flaggers are 21, 22, 23. So, if the identical heroic/epic level spread was used, that would make the heroic versions of the flagging quests, um, what was it, let me see, oh yes, SEVENTEEN, EIGHTEEN, and NINETEEN.

PsychoBlonde
06-12-2017, 07:32 PM
It would be good for iconics starting in Eveningstar to have more to do without having to immediately go to Eberron. So maybe level 15?

Maybe the heroic version wouldn't require the LoD chain so that you could roll up a new iconic and step right into Impossible Demands?

Detaching the quest chain from LoD would probably be way too much effort to make this viable.

PsychoBlonde
06-12-2017, 07:35 PM
No. Just no.

Heroics have enough content to bring the character from 1 to 20 with going through every quest for 1 time only and there still would be like 10-15 heroic quests left behind. Why should the devs spend their time to make even more heroic quests that nobody gonna run though ?
They need to focus on the epic stuff, to make leveling from 20 to 30 possible without dailies and repeating.

You can do 20-30 JUST ON explorer areas. You don't need to farm, heck, if you save your first time runs for epic levels and keep your elite streak running you'll be less than halfway through all available epic level quests before you cap.

In-between content updates (where most of the update is systems changes or a new race/class) tend to be like, one quest. (Like Tower of Frost).

FranOhmsford
06-13-2017, 02:18 AM
Hmm, heroic Lords of Dust chain is level 16 on heroic, 20 on epic. The epic levels of the CITW flaggers are 21, 22, 23. So, if the identical heroic/epic level spread was used, that would make the heroic versions of the flagging quests, um, what was it, let me see, oh yes, SEVENTEEN, EIGHTEEN, and NINETEEN.

Actually Lords of Dust is 21 on Epic!

But tbf I also consider the Heroic Lords of Dust Chain to be TOO Close in level to the Epic versions - I'm not being hypocritical here and just because the Devs a mistake once doesn't mean they should make that same mistake again only worse!

Arch-Necromancer
06-16-2017, 06:46 PM
Actually Lords of Dust is 21 on Epic!

But tbf I also consider the Heroic Lords of Dust Chain to be TOO Close in level to the Epic versions - I'm not being hypocritical here and just because the Devs a mistake once doesn't mean they should make that same mistake again only worse!

They definitely made a mistake when they put Lords of Dust chain on level 16. It makes no sense to have quests needed to reach Eveningstar (and all quests there) on higher level then any quests in Eveningstar.

Because of that you need to first play level 16 quests to get to Eveningstar and to be able to play level 15 quests in Eveningstar (not taking into account VIP passports). And this probably means you are going to play level 15 quests in Eveningstar overlevel and receive XP penalty.

If they could do it without too much work, they should first fix that mistake and make heroic Lords of Dust chain at least level 15 (but level 14 would be much better and would also fill the "lack of quests" hole for Free to play players). This would also fix the issue of heroic version being too close to epic.

After that they could consider making the rest of the chain heroic too.

The rest of the chain could be added to levels 15, 16 and 17. And with that new players would have a straight road to epic levels with just Menace of the Underdark expansion.

EllisDee37
06-16-2017, 07:09 PM
They definitely made a mistake when they put Lords of Dust chain on level 16. It makes no sense to have quests needed to reach Eveningstar (and all quests there) on higher level then any quests in Eveningstar.

Because of that you need to first play level 16 quests to get to Eveningstar and to be able to play level 15 quests in Eveningstar (not taking into account VIP passports). And this probably means you are going to play level 15 quests in Eveningstar overlevel and receive XP penalty.

If they could do it without too much work, they should first fix that mistake and make heroic Lords of Dust chain at least level 15 (but level 14 would be much better and would also fill the "lack of quests" hole for Free to play players). This would also fix the issue of heroic version being too close to epic.

After that they could consider making the rest of the chain heroic too.

The rest of the chain could be added to levels 15, 16 and 17. And with that new players would have a straight road to epic levels with just Menace of the Underdark expansion.Agreed on all that.

Also, based on the difficulty of more recent quests, you could probably leave the LoD chain exactly as-is and just switch it to level 14. (Same monster CR, etc...)

Further, based on the loot and crafting passes, you could make the heroic MotU loot the same as the epic loot is now, adding new buffed up loot to the epic versions.

Arch-Necromancer
06-17-2017, 09:40 AM
Agreed on all that.

Also, based on the difficulty of more recent quests, you could probably leave the LoD chain exactly as-is and just switch it to level 14. (Same monster CR, etc...)

Further, based on the loot and crafting passes, you could make the heroic MotU loot the same as the epic loot is now, adding new buffed up loot to the epic versions.

Indeed, I doubt that Tower of Frost is easier then this chain. And Search and Rescue is definitely harder then this chain. Loot pass would take care of the named item level inconsistency.

dunklezhan
06-17-2017, 10:34 AM
The old against the demon queen series was 10-15 I believe. If they were to do this, that's a completely reasonable level range in my view for what you're actually facing in the underdark in DDO - except for the fact the LOD series to get between realms is a higher level, which kinda means they'd have to go upper teens unless LOD was to be lowered to 10-13 (which would be fine with me, because upper teens for the MOTU chains would be way too close to their epic equivalents).

sirgog
07-24-2017, 07:02 AM
I think the following would work really well:

- Change heroic Lords of Dust chain to level 13. Keep the items as is but lower their ML to 13 (this won't break any of them, although they'll be actually wanted).

- Add heroic to the Eveningstar and Schindilryn quests at level 15 - perfect to run on Reaper on a fresh Iconic (if you can handle it), and if that's not your thing, you can run it on other difficulty settings when in the 14-17 range.

- Add heroic to the Demonweb chain at 16.

For items, just make a couple of new ones rather than attempting to mirror each epic item, with a focus on solid all-around 'basic' gear for new Iconics. As an example, a Con 6, 100% fortification, Healing Amp: 20 ring would be a huge upgrade for an Iconic that's using default gear even if us minmaxers equip better stuff at level 10.

FranOhmsford
07-24-2017, 09:03 AM
I think the following would work really well:

- Change heroic Lords of Dust chain to level 13. Keep the items as is but lower their ML to 13 (this won't break any of them, although they'll be actually wanted).

- Add heroic to the Eveningstar and Schindilryn quests at level 15 - perfect to run on Reaper on a fresh Iconic (if you can handle it), and if that's not your thing, you can run it on other difficulty settings when in the 14-17 range.

- Add heroic to the Demonweb chain at 16.

For items, just make a couple of new ones rather than attempting to mirror each epic item, with a focus on solid all-around 'basic' gear for new Iconics. As an example, a Con 6, 100% fortification, Healing Amp: 20 ring would be a huge upgrade for an Iconic that's using default gear even if us minmaxers equip better stuff at level 10.

I could get behind all of this, so long as the difficulties of Servants, Spinner etc. were reduced commensurately of course :)