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View Full Version : FVS transformer? How awful would this be 1-20?



Tilomere
05-07-2017, 10:37 AM
del

multipro
05-07-2017, 01:18 PM
I know a lot of people complain being a caster FVS from level 1-11 is awful (My main has 7 FVS Lives). It's not that bad truly. Once you get to level 8 and get holy smite you become more able to do some decent DPS. I would not suggest using 2 feat swaps and going elf to use flame blades and TWF just to get to level 12.

Sadly FVS need some love but their warpriest tree is so godawful it is hard to be good. The flame blades and druid past life in my opinion is a waste of time. You're talking about 3 feat swaps just to make it "better" for leveling when really going melee using wisdom to hit and damage weapons from PL Druid may be even worse. I think you would level faster casting with what spells they do get lower levels. Melee FVS used to be good but not it is so far behind the power creep you may struggle more as a melee than as a subpar caster.

Now saying this I don't personally know how the PL version of flame blades scale. If they scale like the actual spell they may be ok.

The last thing I will say is going elf to get some bonus damage and to-hit with flame blades is not worth it. FVS are so feat starved I suggest you go Human and focus on casting from the beginning. Also if you plan on playing in epics at all its really hard to do epics on higher difficulties when you level as a semi-melee/caster hybrid.
With that said you can go melee if you want like you said in the OP its just until 12 then blade barrier will take you to 20 no problem.

Vish
05-07-2017, 03:37 PM
I got a fvs to do to...
Fvs pass within three months
I'm waiting

icekinslayer
05-08-2017, 01:03 AM
It seems intentionally designed to be the starter tree to kill rats in korthos, so that one ultimately swaps to AoV to end up as a group healer as required by MMO mechanics. Think I'll go necro instead of evo. It's been awhile since I've spammed instant kills.

Necro instant kill spells to "spam": slay living, destruction.

Sounds fun. Evocation is superior to necro in many many ways.

EllisDee37
05-08-2017, 05:43 AM
Melee FVS used to be good but not it is so far behind the power creep you may struggle more as a melee than as a subpar caster.I'm actually finding my current melee FVS life (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/453381-Completionist-Project?p=5964230&viewfull=1#post5964230) to be pretty strong, at least once I picked up great cleave. (I'm currently level 12.) Getting +15 melee power from the warforged tree helps a ton.

Totally agreed that Warpriest is a joke of a tree, but Harper fills in the gaps nicely.

Phoenicis
05-08-2017, 05:46 AM
I'm actually finding my current melee FVS life (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/453381-Completionist-Project?p=5964230&viewfull=1#post5964230) to be pretty strong, at least once I picked up great cleave. (I'm currently level 12.) Getting +15 melee power from the warforged tree helps a ton.

Totally agreed that Warpriest is a joke of a tree, but Harper fills in the gaps nicely.

That opinion may change somewhere around 16ish.

Did for me.

Make sure you have a good vorpal or paralyzer...

multipro
05-08-2017, 06:20 PM
DO NOT PLAN ON GOING STRAIGHT NECRO!!!!!!

At this point like someone said there are one two instakills
Destruction and Slay Living
If you go evo there is a lot more you can do
1) Soundburst: Stuns an aoe range of mobs nice for parties
2) Blade Barrier: Once you get it you're unstoppable
3) Implosion: Also instakill but based off evo Dc and can kill up to 6 targets

I always spec for both evo and necro on my fvs because it is nice to instakill but there isn't enough necro spells atm to go full out necro fvs.

Jasparion
05-09-2017, 09:27 PM
I know a lot of people complain being a caster FVS from level 1-11 is awful (My main has 7 FVS Lives). It's not that bad truly. Once you get to level 8 and get holy smite you become more able to do some decent DPS. I would not suggest using 2 feat swaps and going elf to use flame blades and TWF just to get to level 12.

It is bearable if you are running Hard, not Elite or Reaper. FVS is just plain terrible until Blade Barrier - at which point it becomes pretty good. It really only becomes great at 17 when you get Wings.

It is ridiculous that it has taken so long to fix such a clearly broken class. Even a bandaid solution like providing a couple of SLAs would have been enough for a short term fix while a long term fix is worked out.

SirValentine
05-11-2017, 05:10 AM
Hey are reapers immune to command? I know they are immune to soundburst.


They are not immune to Command or Greater Command. Works great on them. Carnage Reapers in particular seem to me to have low Will saves; Famine Reapers not as much.

tsteigner
05-14-2017, 08:32 AM
So, I hear that FVS is painful 1-11 before you get BB, and solid after that as a caster to 20. I was thinking of starting as a melee, and swapping to a caster, using flame blades (bypass DR, Wis to hit and damage) as scimitars twf to go 1-11.

Elf Pure 20 FVS Undying Court
Max Wisdom, levels in wisdom, Dex 15

01- TWF (Dex 15) > astral shard or 3 day wait to feat swap dragonmark at 12+
03- PL:Druid > free feat swap Completionist before taking 12
06- Quicken
09- TWF#2 (dex 17, tomes +2) > dragon shard feat swap PL: Wiz before taking 12
12- Heighten
15- Evo
18- Evo#2
20 TR

Start with warpriest/elf scimitar line for buffing flame blades, swap to AoV at 12, then pick up elf/elf AA for enchant DC/spell pen/displacement on the way to 20. I'm gona be sad if the +enhancement bonuses break the fire damage dr breaking like celestia.
like others said i wouldn't spent 3 feats in the levling process which have to be swapped out around 12th lvl ....
but if you want to play as a caster from lvl 12+ you're missing 2 spells without BB will be laughable (sorry)
to really get bb to hurt mobs in the heroics you need to have at least maximize, better max + empower

multipro
05-14-2017, 10:05 AM
Even in Epics my FVS walks around playing CC with things like

Soundburst, Mass Frog, and Implosion for some kills.
It does great and when in exalted angel ED I also get some nice light SLA's for some damage

Just keep your evo DC up and you will not have a problem I find that about 95 works in LE 95% of the time
I can buff the DC over 100 and still shows the same success rate. I don't know the number that you need exactly just sharing my experience.

I hope you at least enjoy it. It's a fun class that just needs some enhancement love :)

Chai
05-22-2017, 07:48 PM
If they did a war priest pass they could knock out part of the FvS and cleric passes in one fell swoop.

SirValentine
05-23-2017, 09:48 PM
Best quote today "Melee: Did you have to use a death spell on the mob that was tripped, stunned, and getting beat on?"


Heh. "The spell was off cool-down...did you want me to waste that?"

KoobTheProud
05-24-2017, 12:07 AM
If they did a war priest pass they could knock out part of the FvS and cleric passes in one fell swoop.

They need to add probably 2 SLA's to AoV if they want FvS nukers to be viable. One low level and one tier 3 or 4. They might get away with one T1 or T2 and a T5 but they have to do something because the extra FvS spellpoints go away really fast when you're using metamagics on your rotational DPS spells. Amaunator gives free Sunbolt but Eberron FvS are basically screwed.

KoobTheProud
05-24-2017, 12:54 PM
A couple of other SLA's would make Max/Emp/Heighten much more efficient.

Darkfire is not good enough and the Reflex save blows chunks.

Maelodic
07-23-2017, 01:00 PM
I just didn't end up needing or using metamagics. Didn't need heighten, since evo was no fail, and necro was close to no fail in R5 without it. Didn't need quicken because everything was stunned or dazed. Rarely used a quicken heal I think a half dozen times total 1-20. Didn't have enlarge, but it woulda been nice on slay living. Didn't need max/empower and could just machine gun spells off because AoE lvl 4 spells cost 14 and returned 10 of that 14 from just rewards.

You don't need SLAs when your AoE spells net cost 4 mana. Just group, stun for 14 mana, and chain nuke 4 mana a spell. A lantern ring will make soundburst a light damage spell, so it will turn into a 4 mana AoE no-fail stun. I was surprised it was better than mass hold and other CC spells since champions can't avoid it with FoM or Mindblock or knockdown immunity. As far as I could tell, no champion buff protected against it.

I think my fvs ended up with over 3k mana at the end of heroics. I was tossing instant kills every cool down just to waste it. Outside of an occasional quickened heal, fvs don't seem to benefit from metamagics in heroics.

I was looking at the drow sla, and I'm not sure it's that useful. You spend 2 feats for max/empower, and lose a feat since you aren't human, and end up 3 dc down from evox2 completionist. Then you spend 12 AP to get it, and end up down 3 caster levels for awhile since you don't have the AP for intense faith, and down a wisdom in human/T4 AoV for 4 total DC down. Then you have to heightenx4 sound burst, which balloons the cost from 14 to 33 mana, increasing the cost by the amount you could use to cast 5 AoE spells, and all your AoE spells you can afford to cast are down 3 caster levels. So building the max/empower/sla method seems to make it all go sideways on a FvS.


Would you mind doing a break down of which spells you chose and used for machine gun spam while leveling? That sounds super fun.

Also, did you take this build into epics? How did it perform in an off destiny?

Think a dragonborn for the evocation bonuses would do well?

Maelodic
08-09-2017, 01:01 PM
The level 4 alignment ones and flame strike and 2 instant kills.

No, because I screwed up and was default lawful good, which locks you out of 2 of the 4 alignment spells, and master of alignment for boosting all 4 is the only AoE dps path in epics. If you aren't true neutral, you basically get locked out of doing epic AoE dps. I could have bought an alignment change, but I just didn't feel like soloing epics due to lower population on what is essentially 1/2 a warlock.

Sure. I'd do human in heroics for early boost, and dragon born for a character going into epics for late game power. Probably also have to swap necro with spell pen for epics.

Obviously Holy Smite would work. but it doesn't seem like you can really spam these spells in rotation because they won't damage enemies of a certain alignment- Aren't the two you had access to the most useful in general?

Am I wrong, do they damage everybody?

SirValentine
08-09-2017, 05:15 PM
Obviously Holy Smite would work. but it doesn't seem like you can really spam these spells in rotation because they won't damage enemies of a certain alignment- Aren't the two you had access to the most useful in general?

Am I wrong, do they damage everybody?

Full damage to opposite alignments, half damage to neutral. None to same.

While not every enemy is evil, very few are good. So Holy Smite can damage most.

If you hit with both the Law and the Chaos versions, either one will do full damage, or both will do half damage. Or you can adjust with just the version appropriate to mobs in a particular quest.

Jasparion
08-09-2017, 05:49 PM
Full damage to opposite alignments, half damage to neutral. None to same.

While not every enemy is evil, very few are good. So Holy Smite can damage most.

If you hit with both the Law and the Chaos versions, either one will do full damage, or both will do half damage. Or you can adjust with just the version appropriate to mobs in a particular quest.

Holy Smite is great for blinding mobs, but like all other FVS spells early, terrible for damage.

No SLAs means even with the extra spell point pool, you still run out way too quick if solo'ing.

Clerics are so far ahead in the early levels its not funny. And from 12 to 16 its about even. Only once FVS get wings are they better, but then Clerics can get wings at 20 and are back level again.

So FVS are better than Clerics from 17 to 19. Yet somehow in a recent post Sev said that FVS are in a better place than Clerics. Just baffling.