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View Full Version : Suggestion: Warlock Enhancement Trees tweaks (Mostly rebalancing)



doubledge
04-23-2017, 05:43 AM
Okay, flamebaity title and topic aside, Warlock's in a pretty good place right now. Sure, it's a little on the strong side, but reducing the power of it isn't going to help anyone in the long run.

Unfortunately, it seems that a few of the enhancements are sort of counter-intuitive. This suggestion hopes to fix some of the issues.

How this is going to work:

Enhancement name:
Previous effect -> New effect
Reasoning

Enhancements or tiers that are not noted are not being brought up to be changed.

Enlightened Spirit

Cores:

Aura of Courage (Core 2)
Gain Aura of Courage, +5 Heal Amp -> Gain Aura of Courage, Gain Charisma to hit with melee weapons, +5 Heal Amp.

Shape Vestments (Core 3)
Light armor: +10 HP, +5 MRR, Medium armor: +20 HP, +10 MRR, 4 second aura tick -> Light armor: +10 HP, +5 MRR, Medium Armor: +20 HP, +10 MRR, 4 second aura tick, Gain Charisma to damage with melee weapons
Just another toy for melee warlocks.

Celestial Spirit (Core 5)
Toggle: Gain feather fall, 3d6 light on eldritch blasts, immunity to knockdown. -> Toggle: Gain featherfall, 2d6 light on eldritch blasts and ranged attacks, and an additional 2d6 on melee attacks, for a total of 4d6.
Enlightened Spirit was always supposed to be a melee tree. By providing incentive to actually melee, maybe we'll see some melee ES characters running around, rather than just standard burstlocks. Even for them, this is only a 1d6 drop.

Ultimate Enlightenment (Core 6)
+2 Con, +2 Cha, and when Celestial Spirit is enabled, +20% HP, Full BAB, +10 Melee Power, +10 Ranged Power, +10 Universal Spell Power, +20 Light Spell Power
-> +2 Con, +2 Cha, and when Celestial Spirit is enabled, +10% HP, Full BAB, +10 Melee Power, +10 Ranged Power, +20 Light Spell Power, +20 PRR, +20 MRR.
Slight redistribution of power, moving away from flat hp and instead towards resistance. Right now, a pure warlock is more durable than a warlock that splashes paladin for durability.

Tier 2:

Power of Enlightenment: Light
+5/10/15 light, +2/4/6 USP -> +3/6/10 Light, + 1/2/4 Melee and Ranged Power
Never understood why Soul Eater, a caster DPS tree, receives melee and ranged power, but this tree receives flat spell power.

Resist Energies
Resist all energies on single target -> Entirely removed
Replacement is below

Summon Pact Creature (New!)
Summons a pet based on pact. Fiend: Succubus, Great Old One: Mind Flayer, Fey: Dryad. They cast spells based on their level. Their level is equal to your warlock level, plus any epic levels you have.
Warlocks need a built-in pet, to benefit from the rather heavy focus on pet enhancements in ES.

Tier 3:

Power of Enlightenment: Light
+5/10/15 light, +2/4/6 USP -> +3/6/10 Light, + 1/2/4 Melee and Ranged Power
Same as Tier 2.

Eldritch Burst
3d6 light damage burst on a 8/6/5 second CD. -> 1/2/3d6 light damage burst on a 8/6.5/5 second CD. SP Cost: 4
As if anyone didn't already take 3 ranks. 4 SP cost is just there as a joke.

Tier 4:

Spiritual Enlightenment
+1/2/3d6 light damage on eldritch blasts, melee, and ranged attacks. -> +1/2/3d4 light damage on eldritch blasts and ranged attacks. +2/4/6d4 light damage on melee attacks.
Just a slight drop in damage.

Tier 5:

Spirit Blast
10d6 light damage burst on a 8/6/5 second CD. -> 3/6/10d6 light damage burst on an 8/6.5/5 second CD. SP Cost: 10
Again, slowing down the damage based on rank. Net change in damage: Very little.

Shining Through
Gain temp hp equal to 8x your constitution score. Gain +25 heal amp for 20 seconds. 30 second CD, 8 SP cost -> Gain temp hp equal to 6x your constitution score. gain 25 heal amp for 20 seconds. Then, you, and all allied players within your aura receive positive energy healing equal to double your constitution modifier. This healing is amplified by light spell power. 30 second CD, 12 SP cost.
Does this technically count as a nerf? I'm not actually certain. This'd drop survivability by a bit, yeah, but the positive energy healing would potentially offset some of this somewhat.


Soul Eater

Cores

Inhuman Understanding (Core 1)
+1 damage and +5 USP per core you possess. -> +0.5 USP/point spent in this tree, additional 0.25/point alignment spellpower per point. +2 base damage with Eldritch blasts, Melee, and Ranged attacks per core you possess.
Just... why. This tree needs at least some form of scaling spellpower.

Inhuman Nature (Core 2)
+25% Fort, +4 saves against poison and disease -> +25% Fort, +4 saves against poison and disease. Immunity to natural poison and diseases. Stricken damage increased by 2d6, Consume damage increased by 1d10.
Spreading Consume and Stricken damage out, rather than being clustered like it is now.

No Worse Fate (Core 3) -> Terror Lurks Within
Gain immunity to fear. Your Eldritch Blasts, melee, and ranged attacks inflict shaken on enemies for 6 seconds. 2 seconds cooldown -> Gain immunity to fear. Your Eldritch Blasts, Melee, and Ranged attacks inflict shaken on enemies for 6 seconds. No cooldown. Against targets suffering from a fear effect, gain 1d6 chaotic damage with Eldritch Blasts, Melee, and Ranged attacks.
Shaken? Seriously? It needed something else.

Inhuman Nature II (Core 4)
+25% Fort, +4 Saves against poison and disease, +4d6 Stricken damage, +2d10 Consume damage -> +25% fort, +4 saves against poison and disease. Immunity to any disease or poison with a DC less than your fortitude save + bonuses against poison. +2d6 Stricken damage, +1d10 Consume damage.
Lowered consume and stricken damage, as it was moved up to IN 1. Poison and disease resistance is QOL, and only protects against 1s.

Eldritch Seeker (Core 5) -> Eternal Hunger
+5% crit chance with eldritch bursts and spells -> Upon hitting a target afflicted by Stricken or Consume with an eldritch blast or spell, +1% crit chance with Eldritch blast and Spells, stacking up to 10 times. Stacks last 10 seconds. +2d6 Stricken damage, +1d10 Consume damage, you are now an Evil Outsider in regards for spells and effects.
Okay, previous one is really, really boring. Let's mix it up.

Devour the Soul (Capstone)
SLA has the following changes:
Allowed metamagics: Quicken, Heighten, Enlarge -> Quicken, Embolden, Enlarge.
DC Formula Changed: 18 + Warlock Level + Charisma Modifier -> 18 + Warlock Level + Charisma Modifier + Necromancy Bonuses.
Being able to heighten a 9th level SLA makes no sense.

Tier 1:

Hungry for Destruction
+2/4/6 USP, +1/2/3 Melee and Ranged power -> +2/4/6 USP, +3/6/10 Light Spell Power
It make slightly more sense for the DPS tree to get the extra spell power.

Tier 2:

Hungry for Destruction
+2/4/6 USP, +1/2/3 Melee and Ranged power -> +2/4/6 USP, +3/6/10 Light Spell Power
Same as tier 1

Feeding Frenzy
+1% movespeed per warlock level after casting Consume for 20 seconds -> +1% movespeed per warlock level after casting Consume or Stricken for 20 seconds.
It already does this, but this helps clarify things.

Taint the Aura
Against Consumed targets: Eldritch Blasts, melee, and ranged attacks reduce Spell Resistance, PRR, MRR for 10 seconds, stacks 5 times. -> Against Consumed or Strickened targets: Eldritch Blasts, melee, and ranged attacks reduce Spell Resistance, PRR, MRR for 10 seconds, stacks 5 times.
Just extending the usage of this ability.

Tier 3:

Strickened Soul
Against Stricken targets: Eldritch Blasts, melee, and ranged attacks reduce Melee, Ranged, and Spell Power by 20 for 10 seconds -> Against Consumed or Strickened targets: Eldritch Blasts, melee, and ranged attacks reduce Melee, Ranged, and Spell Power by 4 for 10 seconds. Stacks 5 times.
Making it match Taint the Aura.

Tier 4:

Greater Hunger
+2d6 Chaotic damage against targets suffering from Consume. +2d10 Consume damage, +4d6 Stricken damage -> +1d6 chaotic damage with Eldritch Blasts, +1d6 Chaotic damage against targets with Consume or Stricken, +1d6 Chaotic damage against targets with both (For a total of 3d6 against targets with both Consume and Stricken). +2d10 Consume damage, +4d6 Stricken damage.
This still gates a majority of the damage from the tree to Stricken and Consume, but this new version benefits those who put both debuffs on the same enemy.

Strickened Form
Against Stricken targets: Your Eldritch Blasts, Melee and Ranged attacks inflict Vulnerability -> Against Consumed or Stricken targets, your Eldritch blasts, Melee, and Ranged attacks inflict Vulnerability.
Again, increasing the time this can be used.

Steal Life Force
Deal 4/8/12d6 chaotic damage to a target, and receive 4/8/12d6 healing. 150% spellpower scaling. 20 second CD. -> Deal 2/4/6d6 chaotic damage to a target, receive 2/4/8d6 healing. 150% spellpower scaling. 20/15/10 second CD. This healing and damage is doubled if you possess any epic levels.
Available metamagics: Heighten, Embolden, Quicken, Enlarge -> Empower, Maximise, Intensify, Quicken, Enlarge
As is, this ability, which has no saves, can be heightened, Emboldened... I'm not joking. By lowering the CD, but lowering the heal, this hopefully will remain useful. By doubling the power in epics, it can potentially be worth keeping around, rather than being swapped out.

Tier 5

Supreme Hunger
+4d6 Stricken, +2d10 Consume -> +1d6 chaotic damage against Stricken or Consumed targets, +1d6 chaotic against targets with both (for a total of 2d6) +4d6 Stricken, +2d10 Consume, killing a target has a chance at refreshing Consume and Stricken's cooldown. Weaker enemies have a reduced chance at triggering this effect.
So, tell me how exactly this particular "Supreme" hunger is better than "Greater" hunger, which does the exact same thing, and adds extra chaotic damage?

Feed on Magic -> Insatiable
Eldritch Blasts, Melee, and ranged attacks have a 10% chance at granting 10 + 1/warlock level spell points -> Your Eldritch Blasts, Melee, and Ranged attacks have a 10% chance at granting a stack of Insatiable. Stacks last for 30 seconds, and stack up to 10 times.
Insatiable: +2.5% profane bonus to Melee attack speed, +3.75% profane bonus to Ranged attack speed, +2.5% profane bonus to Eldritch blasting speed.
I'm not entirely sure what they were thinking with this particular ability.



Tainted Scholar

Tier Two:

Stunning Blast
Activate for 6/4/2 Depravity: Launches an Eldritch blast that stuns a target into helplessness for 12 seconds on a failed Fortitude Save (DC 10 + Warlock Level + Charisma Modifier) -> Activate for 6/4/2 Depravity: Launches an Eldritch Blast that stuns a target into helplessness for 4/8/12 seconds on a failed fortitude save (DC 10/14/18 + Warlock Level + Charisma Modifier + Evocation Bonuses), In addition, cast time lowered from 2 seconds to 1 second. Quickened cast time lowered from 2 seconds to 0.5 seconds.
*Shudders* I don't think I've ever seen someone try and use this ability: The DC is horrific, and even worse, the cast time is unbearable. This is really the only thing in this tree that needs fixing.

edrein
04-27-2017, 10:28 AM
I like your changes overall, but I hate you burst you bubble. Like you, I too believed that Enlightened Spirit was supposed to be melee after a few videos, lamania chats, etc. Ultimately after talking to Steelstar on Lamania was that delusion purged from my mind. The devs didn't want to do a proper melee warlock tree; as I had been campaigning for a true to form melee warlock using Hideous Blow, Eldritch Glaives, etc. from the initial warlock announcement before things were being truly revealed to the player base. The devs didn't want that and Enlightened Spirit shows that. It's a very shoe-horned tree; cobbled together with random things that don't create a really cohesive tree. It just happens to have the bursts and aura which make it 'melee range' but the survive-ability is what everyone truly uses it for.

So with that in mind, I believe your changes could help alleviate the disheartened acceptance folks like me took to Enlightened Spirit. However, I'd suggest that the bursts be given multiselectors. To either give us an actual Cleave similar to the new paladin cleaves or eldritch cleave from EK, or to let us use the current bursts. If the option of actual weapon based cleaves isn't on the table, then we need to gain the Quick Draw feat just like Henshin Mystic did at a lower level core to incentivize the hybrid nature of the tree, rather than making our weapons in general a bad joke since the bursts block you from swinging weapons after using them. And melee warlock is already starved enough as is on feats to try and pick up Quick Draw on top of the other necessary feats a hybrid build requires.

Arctigis
04-27-2017, 11:26 AM
You could have saved a lot of time and just written 'nerf warlock!' :-).
I think the Reaper Racial TR Train has given a false impression of the OP'ness of Warlocks.
They are definitely a great class to play in heroic reaper as the abilities are generally
front loaded.

Shining Through has already been nerfed at least twice.
Bursts are the same as cleaves thus shouldn't have a cost. I'd advocate scaling
- but not in the way you propose. Something like 1d6 per 5 character levels or
something. ES DPS in higher levels is *lacking*, not OP.

Warlocks are great trash killers because of the survivability - round up mobs
and blast away. However, it's just trash so who cares?. ES boss DPS is terrible
compared to melee, throwers etc. etc.

Feralthyrtiaq
04-27-2017, 12:19 PM
Stunning Blast
Activate for 6/4/2 Depravity: Launches an Eldritch blast that stuns a target into helplessness for 12 seconds on a failed Fortitude Save (DC 10 + Warlock Level + Charisma Modifier) -> Activate for 6/4/2 Depravity: Launches an Eldritch Blast that stuns a target into helplessness for 4/8/12 seconds on a failed fortitude save (DC 10/14/18 + Warlock Level + Charisma Modifier + Evocation Bonuses), In addition, cast time lowered from 2 seconds to 1 second. Quickened cast time lowered from 2 seconds to 0.5 seconds.
*Shudders* I don't think I've ever seen someone try and use this ability: The DC is horrific, and even worse, the cast time is unbearable. This is really the only thing in this tree that needs fixing.

Stunning Blast is awesome and I use it all the time. The DC is appropriate and attainable. This ability can be full-meta'd and stuns all but red/purple named mobs. It's great in a rotation with Spirit Blast/Eldritch Burst/Consume/Stricken/Arcane Pulse/Hell-Ball or w/e AND even with the "wind-up" it is REALLY handy for that LAST ONE ARCHER that somehow nearly ALWAYS gets missed with the AOE because as soon as he runs and everything else is on CD you hit the Stunning Blast.

doubledge
04-27-2017, 01:27 PM
I like your changes overall, but I hate you burst you bubble. Like you, I too believed that Enlightened Spirit was supposed to be melee after a few videos, lamania chats, etc. Ultimately after talking to Steelstar on Lamania was that delusion purged from my mind. The devs didn't want to do a proper melee warlock tree; as I had been campaigning for a true to form melee warlock using Hideous Blow, Eldritch Glaives, etc. from the initial warlock announcement before things were being truly revealed to the player base. The devs didn't want that and Enlightened Spirit shows that. It's a very shoe-horned tree; cobbled together with random things that don't create a really cohesive tree. It just happens to have the bursts and aura which make it 'melee range' but the survive-ability is what everyone truly uses it for.

So with that in mind, I believe your changes could help alleviate the disheartened acceptance folks like me took to Enlightened Spirit. However, I'd suggest that the bursts be given multiselectors. To either give us an actual Cleave similar to the new paladin cleaves or eldritch cleave from EK, or to let us use the current bursts. If the option of actual weapon based cleaves isn't on the table, then we need to gain the Quick Draw feat just like Henshin Mystic did at a lower level core to incentivize the hybrid nature of the tree, rather than making our weapons in general a bad joke since the bursts block you from swinging weapons after using them. And melee warlock is already starved enough as is on feats to try and pick up Quick Draw on top of the other necessary feats a hybrid build requires.

How exactly would you say that a melee, non-burst cleave would work? Save for upping base damages, or making the cleaves scale with 400% melee power, they'd never be able to catch up to the sheer power of the maxed/empowered/intensified burst.

I personally cannot stand enlightened spirit. I mean, it's a strong tree, but it's strong in a way that doesn't make sense. It honestly feels like they took a caster tree, and slapped defender resistances on it. It's at a point now, however, that nerfing or reworking the tree would turn off a lot of warlock players (and force several hundred accounts to rewrite their bots).

The only option, then, is to add more bonuses to playing it in a way that isn't just burst... wait... burst.


You could have saved a lot of time and just written 'nerf warlock!' :-).
I think the Reaper Racial TR Train has given a false impression of the OP'ness of Warlocks.
They are definitely a great class to play in heroic reaper as the abilities are generally
front loaded.

Shining Through has already been nerfed at least twice.
Bursts are the same as cleaves thus shouldn't have a cost. I'd advocate scaling
- but not in the way you propose. Something like 1d6 per 5 character levels or
something. ES DPS in higher levels is *lacking*, not OP.

Warlocks are great trash killers because of the survivability - round up mobs
and blast away. However, it's just trash so who cares?. ES boss DPS is terrible
compared to melee, throwers etc. etc.

So you're suggesting something like this:

Eldritch burst: Burst damage, plus 1d6 light per 4/3/2 warlock levels
Spirit Blast: Burst damage, 1d6 light per 3/2/1 warlock levels

edrein
04-27-2017, 05:43 PM
How exactly would you say that a melee, non-burst cleave would work? Save for upping base damages, or making the cleaves scale with 400% melee power, they'd never be able to catch up to the sheer power of the maxed/empowered/intensified burst.

I personally cannot stand enlightened spirit. I mean, it's a strong tree, but it's strong in a way that doesn't make sense. It honestly feels like they took a caster tree, and slapped defender resistances on it. It's at a point now, however, that nerfing or reworking the tree would turn off a lot of warlock players (and force several hundred accounts to rewrite their bots).

The only option, then, is to add more bonuses to playing it in a way that isn't just burst... wait... burst.



So you're suggesting something like this:

Eldritch burst: Burst damage, plus 1d6 light per 4/3/2 warlock levels
Spirit Blast: Burst damage, 1d6 light per 3/2/1 warlock levels

As long as the light portion scales with spell power it would work out. Melee cleave doesn't have to be as extreme as the burst; as melee cleaves benefit else where and can get their own 'oomph' when dealing damage to trash mobs.

I'm still for a complete rework of ES, or creating a fourth tree that is a true to form melee warlock similar to the capabilities of a tabletop warlock. Gut this completely made up enlightened spirit deal, give us Hideous Blow which is essentially a warlock's version of smite evil. Let us apply our blastshape to our weapons with no internal cooldown (after all swinging weapons doesn't require 150% spellpower scaling). And give us different weapon style choices via things like Eldritch Claws, Eldritch Glaives, etc. A melee warlock is the middleground between being a glass cannon and a solid spellsword.

doubledge
04-27-2017, 05:56 PM
As long as the light portion scales with spell power it would work out. Melee cleave doesn't have to be as extreme as the burst; as melee cleaves benefit else where and can get their own 'oomph' when dealing damage to trash mobs.

I'm still for a complete rework of ES, or creating a fourth tree that is a true to form melee warlock similar to the capabilities of a tabletop warlock. Gut this completely made up enlightened spirit deal, give us Hideous Blow which is essentially a warlock's version of smite evil. Let us apply our blastshape to our weapons with no internal cooldown (after all swinging weapons doesn't require 150% spellpower scaling). And give us different weapon style choices via things like Eldritch Claws, Eldritch Glaives, etc. A melee warlock is the middleground between being a glass cannon and a solid spellsword.

I am intrigued by your idea, but I think that'd be better suited in a suggestion by itself. Even then, what'd stop a person from going ES/New Melee tree, and picking up the aura too?

A lot of it would be needing to weigh more, AP wise, than ES.

edrein
04-28-2017, 12:53 PM
I am intrigued by your idea, but I think that'd be better suited in a suggestion by itself. Even then, what'd stop a person from going ES/New Melee tree, and picking up the aura too?

A lot of it would be needing to weigh more, AP wise, than ES.

As an imbuement stance it would block you from activating the aura at the same time. The only major flaw I see is balancing repeater crossbow builds. How do you stop them from proccing on all three base shots before doubleshot is accounted for. I think allowing the imbue on doublestrike and doubleshot is fine, but arguably repeater trumps any other 'weapon' on proc chances. However if you build in an internal cooldown (as we see with the new cannith crafting vampirism) you'll nerf the potential output on TWF builds or destroy cleave damage in general.

doubledge
04-29-2017, 02:21 PM
As an imbuement stance it would block you from activating the aura at the same time. The only major flaw I see is balancing repeater crossbow builds. How do you stop them from proccing on all three base shots before doubleshot is accounted for. I think allowing the imbue on doublestrike and doubleshot is fine, but arguably repeater trumps any other 'weapon' on proc chances. However if you build in an internal cooldown (as we see with the new cannith crafting vampirism) you'll nerf the potential output on TWF builds or destroy cleave damage in general.

Eldritch blast imbuement.

The only way I could EVER see that working, is if it had some horrible, horrible scaling (<50%). As is, you can push 14d6 force and 15d4 elemental come epics a hit, which at a higher-than-50% scaling, would crank dps to 11.

As for nerfing repeaters, I'd just slap a 50-60% damage penalty when using a repeater on the stance. No need to lock out the stance for anyone, although personally, I'd still run a repeater warlock if that was the case.

So for example, you'd see stuff like this: (A lot of it is adapted from 5e's warlock invocations)


Eldritch blasting shape: Imbue Weaponry

You infuse your equipped weapon with eldritch energies. On hit, your weapons gain your eldritch burst (-1d6 force, -3 pact dice) as bonus damage. This damage scales with 50% spell power. This damage is reduced by 50% when used with a crossbow.


Hideous Blow/Shot

You launch an attack crackling with unearthly energy. Add an additional eldritch blast to your attack. This scales at 100% spellpower. 4 second cooldown, single target. Crossbows reduce this damage by 50%.


Thirsting Blade(Tier 5)

Activate: You gain +25% doublestrike/doubleshot. This lasts until you change your weapon. 5 minute cooldown, 10 second cast time.


Lifedrinker(Tier 1-4)

While in Eldritch Imbuement stance, add bane damage equal to half your charisma modifier. This scales with 100% spellpower. All four enhancements stack with themselves, for a total of double your charisma modifier. 50% damage when used with a crossbow.

Unearthly Warrior (Core 3)

Apply a debuff to targets you damage, cc, or otherwise inconvenience for 4 seconds. Whenever a creature dies when under the influence of your debuff, gain temporary hit points equal to half your charisma score. This stacks up to 4 times, and lasts for 30 seconds. Weaker enemies have reduced chances at activating this effect.