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View Full Version : Allow a way to craft two extra effects in cannith crafting



Lokeal_The_Flame
04-08-2017, 12:52 PM
I'd love it if DDO would come up with a special crafting shard that would split the extra effect slot into two slots rather one thus allow for two extra effects to be crafted on it at once. I can imagine running a raid hoping to get a component needed to craft the shard, or perhaps running some cannith challenges trying to get 800 of each epic material to craft one, maybe running a reaper quest for a chance to get such. To have a crafted weapon with constitution damage and vampirism, I'd go pretty far for such!

Yamani
04-08-2017, 03:02 PM
I'd love it if DDO would come up with a special crafting shard that would split the extra effect slot into two slots rather one thus allow for two extra effects to be crafted on it at once. I can imagine running a raid hoping to get a component needed to craft the shard, or perhaps running some cannith challenges trying to get 800 of each epic material to craft one, maybe running a reaper quest for a chance to get such. To have a crafted weapon with constitution damage and vampirism, I'd go pretty far for such!

Or make those unique collectables that are rewarded from specific chains/quests unlock the second slot.

Lokeal_The_Flame
04-09-2017, 12:17 AM
Or make those unique collectables that are rewarded from specific chains/quests unlock the second slot.

Like that idea too!

Would even choose it over an experience reward lol

bsquishwizzy
04-12-2017, 12:04 PM
Add this, and make rings not suck anymore.

Crafting now is ****.

Thrudh
04-12-2017, 12:32 PM
Crafting now is ****.

Does **** = "good"?

We already get three effects that we can choose. With bonuses nearly as high as the best named gear. Cannith crafting is already very powerful and customizable.

Enoach
04-12-2017, 12:49 PM
This is an interesting thought, but doing this I think would tip the balance even more away from RNG/Raid/Named towards Cannith Crafted. The reason is because the Cannith Crafted both keeps pace with at level gear and is customizable (reducing the gearing dilemma)

Now there are several things I wish they would add and maybe one would be that ability to add an Augment Slot such as Clear, Yellow, Blue and Red. But only if the item does not have an augment and still limit it to one.

bsquishwizzy
04-12-2017, 01:09 PM
Does **** = "good"?

We already get three effects that we can choose. With bonuses nearly as high as the best named gear. Cannith crafting is already very powerful and customizable.

Nope. It means "excrement."

They would have hit Crafting perfect if they didn't decide that trinkets were the end-all-be-all of gear. They stripped a whole bunch effects from decent slots and left us with garbage for options (with the exception of weapons).

I used to craft often when doing a TR. Now, it's not worth it for numerous pieces of gear. Costs too much. Options on many slots just plain-out suck. Just not worth it any more. And that third slot in a piece of gear? Have fun with mindless grind. Maybe it's not an issue if you do nothing but run epic. But if you don't, then most of "insightful" is out of reach.

Yeah, THAT was well thought out.

Enoach
04-12-2017, 01:38 PM
...
I used to craft often when doing a TR. Now, it's not worth it for numerous pieces of gear. Costs too much. Options on many slots just plain-out suck. Just not worth it any more. And that third slot in a piece of gear? Have fun with mindless grind. Maybe it's not an issue if you do nothing but run epic. But if you don't, then most of "insightful" is out of reach.

Yeah, THAT was well thought out.

One of the changes I have done in my crafting is now I create generic items that can be used by all my characters (6 of them) at level increments. I utilize the shared bank to transfer these items between characters as I work to have them staggered for TR purposes.

I do craft specific character gear for the Level 30 range, but I will also spend time at this level on characters.

The new crafting system is a lot less throw away, then the previous system. But I find I can make much better level specific items that are bound to account with the new system over the old.

Selvera
04-12-2017, 02:24 PM
When I read the title of the thread I thought you meant allow the option of replacing one of the primary slots with an extra slot, and I thought "no, that would probably be OP". Then I read that your suggestion was even more powerful then that.

No, that would definitely be OP.

Cannith crafted gear is so good that I discredit 80% of named gear and 90% of random loot as useless. It's much easier to farm then greensteel, thunderforge, ToEE or old slavelords (will have to run new slavelords a bit to judge how it stacks up against cannith crafted in terms of farm-time). And it has the flexibility that I can create a generic set worth transferring between all my characters, or a specific set created to maximize the power of one specific character's specific build. It takes thought to put good effects in every slot of every item, and for each item you have to balance what options are available in other slots as well as on named items.

In short: it's very well done; and the only complaints I have about the system are:
1) Collectable farming could use some work on making it less frustrating; specifically tiers where there are multiple collectables diluting pulls should only have one.
2) Unbound crafting is relatively too expensive when compared with bound crafting, and it also should not cost bound ingredients to make.
3) Crafting might be a little too powerful, and obsolete too much of the named gear and random loot items.

Thrudh
04-12-2017, 03:24 PM
And that third slot in a piece of gear? Have fun with mindless grind. Maybe it's not an issue if you do nothing but run epic. But if you don't, then most of "insightful" is out of reach.

Yeah, THAT was well thought out.

Sounds to me like it was well thought out. You think insightful in heroic should be plentiful and easy? I disagree.

blerkington
04-12-2017, 08:11 PM
OP, I'd settle for just a loosening of restrictions on which effect can go in which gear slot.


Sounds to me like it was well thought out. You think insightful in heroic should be plentiful and easy? I disagree.

Never mind the other points he made about how the new system consumes collectables way too fast, how some shards with low level effects have very high crafting level requirements and/or rare collectable requirements, how some gear slots have a very poor choice of effects to put in them compared to most others, some of the weird restrictions on which effects can go where, and how a few effects that should be craftable appear to be missing.

Oh, and if you're against stat inflation, I'm not sure how being able to use epic level stat effects at higher heroic levels fits in with your stern views about how insightful stat effects should not be easily available at heroic levels. For the sake of reigning in power creep, having lower bonuses available and potentially taking up two slots (eg, +6 enhancement and +2 insightful) is better than allowing us to craft and wear a single effect item with as much as a +7 stat bonus at 13, +8 at 15 or +9 at 18.

But yeah, it was all well thought out. No problems at all, nothing to criticise, move along everyone.

Thanks.

Hcinrich_Hain
04-23-2017, 04:39 AM
[...]Cannith crafted gear is so good that I discredit 80% of named gear and 90% of random loot as useless.
It's much easier to farm then greensteel, thunderforge, ToEE or old slavelords
(will have to run new slavelords a bit to judge how it stacks up against cannith crafted in terms of farm-time).[...]


About CC outperforming most of older loot - that's a different matter that needs to be fixed.
Easier to farm? For the low lvl range maybe but if you want
to craft CC lvl34 items you're looking for tons of essences=time.
I already have enough Slave Lords ingredients for 2 items that outperform
CC in terms of stats and slots and will have enough for 3 by the time
I get my CC lvl to craft the highest lvl bound shards.

I thus agree with the opener that Cannith Crafting needs an improvement
but I think rather then making one slot into two that CC should complement
existing crafting systems rather then making them obsolete.

As I laid out in my thread
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/485985-Bring-back-CC-Crafting-for-wondrous-items-(Compasses)-bigger-amp-better!-P-L-E-A-S-E

and https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/485951-Why-can-t-Named-Items-be-disjuncted-for-crafting

I.e. adding a set bonus or using ingredients from other systems or collectables
(mysterious remnants) to add a bonus or a 2nd augment slot.

Old crafting systems should be kept up to date but since that hasn't been happening
and instead new systems are introduced with the old ones being neglected
I'd rather have SSG incorporate some of their functions in CC.

GeoffWatson
04-23-2017, 05:00 AM
Please add something like the Thaumaturgy ability for two-handed weapons.

Two one-handed caster weapons are so much better than a two-handed caster weapon (ie spell power, spell lore, etc).
Maybe give extra spell power, or an extra crafting slot, or something.

dunklezhan
04-23-2017, 05:09 AM
Does **** = "good"?

We already get three effects that we can choose. With bonuses nearly as high as the best named gear. Cannith crafting is already very powerful and customizable.

This iteration of cannith crafting for me needs a significant change in the players' favour where it comes to the cost of unbound crafting, and the limitations on what can be put on rings are very strange (special mention also for Thaumaturgy for 2 handers as geoff said, or at least huge boost to the implement bonus of a 2 hander) - but in general I'm of the view that Thrudh is completely correct: the last thing CC needs is a power boost by letting you put even more effects on to a given item.

dunklezhan
04-23-2017, 05:23 AM
But yeah, it was all well thought out. No problems at all, nothing to criticise, move along everyone.



I don't think that's a fair level of sarcasm to level at Thrudh there, Blerk. It's a complicated system, and with something that complicated there is always going to be room for refinement, and T was talking about one specific element. Its not like Thrudh isn't often critical, why does everyone who says 'perhaps things aren't so bad' have to be immediately tarred with the "rose tinted fanboi" label? Why do those who level criticisms have to be labelled a hater?

I just don't understand how anyone thinks that's a healthy way to go about getting a dialogue going. Have we all learned nothing from the last couple of years of politics?* It's possible to be critical about specifics whilst generally being in favour or even to be massively critical about a general thing whilst still being in favour of specifics.

Anyway: even though I have a fair old list of things that I think are significant problems that need addressing, I do think it was well thought out, in the main. The core principles and structure of it really is all fine.

What's lacking I think really is a little bit more discussion from the design team about some of the things that keep getting raised as problems/improvements - such as the points you and the OP raised.

Whilst you've got general moaners like me who will happily pop into any CC thread to make their case over and over again the main reason I am able to do that is because different people keep raising very similar suggestions, which would tend to indicate that either there is indeed some kind of gap/tweak to be made, or alternatively that the design team haven't articulated their reasoning/thinking clearly enough.


*why am I asking?! Human in large groups don't learn, lol!

dunklezhan
04-23-2017, 05:33 AM
complaints I have about the system are:
1) Collectable farming could use some work on making it less frustrating; specifically tiers where there are multiple collectables diluting pulls should only have one.
2) Unbound crafting is relatively too expensive when compared with bound crafting, and it also should not cost bound ingredients to make.
3) Crafting might be a little too powerful, and obsolete too much of the named gear and random loot items.

I would agree with these, especially 2 & 3.

Uska
04-23-2017, 05:56 AM
No we have way to much power creep already

Hcinrich_Hain
04-23-2017, 05:59 AM
the last thing CC needs is a power boost by letting you put even more effects on to a given item.

A Cannith crafted item offers:

_15 Charisma
159 Spellpower
__7 Insightful Charisma
__1 Augment Slot

A Slave Lords item offers:

_17 Charisma
185 Spellpower
__6 Spell Focus Mastery
__4 Quality Charisma
__1 Augment Slot
__1 Set Bonus Slot

And there are +8 Insightful stat items
http://ddowiki.com/images/Legendary_Symbol_of_the_Slave_Lords.jpg

with new items being added at the new Slave Lords power lvl:

http://ddowiki.com/images/Legendary_Scales_of_Malice.png
http://ddowiki.com/images/Legendary_Lenses_of_the_Orator.png

these are from quests not raids!

I am against that power creep but CC should offer better results if you put
in a similar effort and like the OP said a new CC slot should by no ways be
easily obtainable.

A mechanic like the one GS items have just without the ability to cleanse it
can prevent players from wearing too many of the new CC items.

bsquishwizzy
05-02-2017, 09:30 PM
Here''s the deal.

Yes, adding more effects is power creep.

Making your own named weapon, however is a) something that should be part of the game, and b) something worth grinding for. I'm all in when it comes to maybe upgrading some of the stuff from the events so that you can "burn" in an effect. Like the Risia frost blast on a random gen weapon. Problem is, most of these festival add-ons are under-powered, and virtually obsolete because they never kept them up-to-date with the game.

Being able to go through the costly and complicated steps of making a named weapon could potentially give some of these antiquated system a new life. Along with stuff like the Stone of Change. Just add a "bypass" component that allows you to potentially put those attributes on a CC item. Make it exceptionally rare. Make it worth getting.

Part of the problem is that while they fixed CC for Epic, they totally unbalanced Heroic. Odds are, they are not going to change that any time soon. So work with what you have.

Hutoth
05-03-2017, 04:06 AM
my 5 cents

1. ability to add augment slots would be good. augments are generally not OP (and probably need a boost themselves but that's another story)

2. crafting was never quite right, and while the version 2.0 crafting got a lot right, at the same time it got a lot... not right.

3. I'd love to see something more like the original concept before it was released in the first place, where you'd be collecting the effect you want from one (or many) item(s), and then grafting it onto the new one. E.g. Strip paralysing off X-number weapons to create a "paralysing shard" and then do your business with collectables and base-items and whatever.

4. You should be able to enhance an existing item with crafting. E.g. "I love my SOS, but with top-level crafting maybe I could add an augment or a new power to it..."

5. I used to craft a lot. Now I don't.