View Full Version : I want an end game like we had when cap was 16-20

03-06-2017, 06:29 AM
Please, let me explain.

Meridia was endgame, and it did a great job of it! Unfortunately, I feel like Legendary Shroud has missed a few opportunities here...

First, we have 5 flagging quests in a large explorer zone with a lot of XP to be had, and diversity of mobs.
As for the flagging, each quest has a bound-to-character item that is both necessary to enter the raid (bleh) and for crafting a greensteel (raid loot) blank (good!), which makes running the quests again a goal for anyone wanting more greensteel items.

Then, each quest also drops an assortment of unbound (good for trading/game economy) items, also necessary for crafting base items (these were later added to drop in The Vale as well--a good change).

For the raid, the tiers of progressive difficulty and loot level, in theory allowing groups to complete earlier parts of the raid to begin crafting their new items, was a strong development (Codex maintains this). It had BtC items (Shards) for each tier of equipment to incentivize people to run on a particular character, along with unbound items that can not only be swapped among toons on a single account, but traded as currency (good for the game overall).

The equipment offered some new, unique effects, consolidation of important effects, and new stacking bonuses of high enough number, and variety of effects that everyone wanted 2 or 3 items.

I feel like Slavers crafting kind of gets this done well with the mix of bound and unbound items, variety of effects, and size of bonuses (it seems like it kind of overshot the mark there a bit, though), but it's one 3-quest chain.

We also had Reaver's Fate, which, while a couple levels below cap, still offered relevant loot, and Shroud was followed by Hound and VoD, which added to that list of things to go after.

Later, we got Tower of Despair added, which included a portion of Shroud crafting ingredients in its raid loot mechanic. I thought this was cool, because it tied things together, not just insofar as the story went, but also gave us some consistency to loot systems. Right now, we have so many different, competing systems: Legendary Greensteel crafting, Slave Lords crafting, Thunderforged, Temple of Elemental Evil, Cannith...plus named items.

I guess what I would really like to see is this:

Big raid with crafting similar to Slavers/Greensteel that rests on an explorer zone and series of quests with reason to rerun them
Another 2-3 smaller raids that share some itemization--some ingredients or pieces of items from the Big Raid and each of the Smaller Raids can be used across the whole group (the way medium Shroud ingredients were used for ToD ring crafting, and greensteel ingredients dropped in Amrath quests)
Another half-dozen or more quests that tie everything together with shared loot drops to expand options for acquisition of parts
A mix of the crafted loot and named loot like we have in Slavers, and we had in Reaver's Fate (partially upgraded drops depending on quest difficulty).

Maybe something that has named loot that drops, but instead of providing augment slots, it has one or two legendary greensteel crafting "slots", or slaver's slots.

03-06-2017, 06:41 AM
I know this will sound strange, but I have had an 'endgame' experience with my challenge farmer.

Inspired by Ellisdee's approach, I made a toon permanently parked at level 16. With that achieved, it became a question of optimal gearing. That is still a work in progress.

I have found that all the quests of 'old epic endgame' are available sans some of the powercreep that makes them too easy. For example, the easily obtained Golden Guile is ML 17; if I want improved deception, I need to run Reaver's. With Reaper the quest range shrinks a little but I can still progress the character via Reaper xp.

I have had so much fun with this approach that I feel that constraining a build to level 16 without PLs etc is a unique endgame.

03-07-2017, 07:03 AM
Agree with Sephiroth here with one caveat: The period between Shroud and Epic Desert was too long, with only three new significant content additions in that time.

The endgame was good when Shroud was new but got stale after VOD and HOX were solved and stayed fairly stale until epic sands.

There were five actually challenging fights in the game at that point and three had no incentive to ever run and so were almost never attempted.

From easiest to hardest they were Shroud Elite part 4 - no incentive; Stealer of Souls Elite Sorjek optional - no incentive; Tower of Despair Elite Horoth encounter; Tower of Despair Elite Jailer/Judge encounter; Gianthold Tor Elite Blue Dragon encounter (due to a longstanding bug making it harder; traps procced six times) - no incentive.

Epic Sands had lots of issues but it brought three new hard quests, one pretty easy raid and one very hard quest (eADQ1) to endgame. All were worth running, so we went from one raid at actual endgame, to two raids and four quests (plus a preparation-for-endgame suite of Shroud, all the Dragontouched armor quests, and sometimes a few others).