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View Full Version : Suggestion: Reduction of self-healing penalty for healers in Reaper



TDarkchylde
03-04-2017, 04:08 PM
Love it or hate it, Reaper Mode has changed the way DDO is played. It's brought back teamwork and curbed excessive power to bring some difficulty back to the game.

It's also had the effect of marginalizing certain classes, forcing them to play in certain ways because of the laws of unintended consequences. While having a healer makes a Reaper quest run much more smoothly, it also forces them into roles they may not be specced for - specifically, that of a healbot.

This suggestion aims to spare Divine casters (and possibly Bards too, since some of them are built for healing) from some of the more onerous penalties in Reaper.

My suggestion is the addition of a new feat for Clerics, Favored Souls, Druids, and, yes, Bards, that would reduce the self-healing penalties for those classes only, and it would work better for those who are built mostly as those classes so people can't just splash a few levels of a "healing" class and expect to self-heal as well as a pure classed healer.

Auto-granted feat: Healing Expertise
Prerequisites: Cleric/Druid/Favored Soul class level 4, Bard class level 6
Prerequisite: 6 trained ranks of the Heal skill
Your expertise in the healing arts reduces the ability of outside forces to impede your ability to heal yourself. In Reaper Mode, the self-healing penalty is reduced by a percentage equal to your Heal skill, based on your total percentage of Cleric, Favored Soul, Druid, and Bard levels.

Let's do some math to show how this would work.

20 Cleric in 1 Skull, 30 Heal skill:
As it is now - -60% self-healing penalty
With Healing Expertise - -60% penalty, reduced by 30%, so it becomes a 42% self-healing penalty instead.

12 Fighter/8 Cleric, 1 Skull, 30 Heal skill:
As it is now - -60% self-healing penalty
With Healing Expertise - -60% base penalty, reduced by 40% of 30 (12%), resulting in a 52.8% self-healing penalty.

As you can see, this would make it marginally easier for healers to keep themselves alive without external aid in Reaper, while limiting the ability of people to use smaller healer splits to try to game the system.

bigdmag
03-08-2017, 07:30 PM
Love it or hate it, Reaper Mode has changed the way DDO is played. It's brought back teamwork and curbed excessive power to bring some difficulty back to the game.

It's also had the effect of marginalizing certain classes, forcing them to play in certain ways because of the laws of unintended consequences. While having a healer makes a Reaper quest run much more smoothly, it also forces them into roles they may not be specced for - specifically, that of a healbot.

This suggestion aims to spare Divine casters (and possibly Bards too, since some of them are built for healing) from some of the more onerous penalties in Reaper.

My suggestion is the addition of a new feat for Clerics, Favored Souls, Druids, and, yes, Bards, that would reduce the self-healing penalties for those classes only, and it would work better for those who are built mostly as those classes so people can't just splash a few levels of a "healing" class and expect to self-heal as well as a pure classed healer.

Auto-granted feat: Healing Expertise
Prerequisites: Cleric/Druid/Favored Soul class level 4, Bard class level 6
Prerequisite: 6 trained ranks of the Heal skill
Your expertise in the healing arts reduces the ability of outside forces to impede your ability to heal yourself. In Reaper Mode, the self-healing penalty is reduced by a percentage equal to your Heal skill, based on your total percentage of Cleric, Favored Soul, Druid, and Bard levels.

Let's do some math to show how this would work.

20 Cleric in 1 Skull, 30 Heal skill:
As it is now - -60% self-healing penalty
With Healing Expertise - -60% penalty, reduced by 30%, so it becomes a 42% self-healing penalty instead.

12 Fighter/8 Cleric, 1 Skull, 30 Heal skill:
As it is now - -60% self-healing penalty
With Healing Expertise - -60% base penalty, reduced by 40% of 30 (12%), resulting in a 52.8% self-healing penalty.

As you can see, this would make it marginally easier for healers to keep themselves alive without external aid in Reaper, while limiting the ability of people to use smaller healer splits to try to game the system.

I like it. If there is only 1 healer in the group it can go south quick. I like the idea of having to slow down and game plan. I like the idea of non-healer builds needing a healer to help keep them alive. I do not like not being able to heal myself as a healer build. It makes sense that a non-healer build or a split -class wouldn't be able to efficiently heal themselves, but not toons built for healing. Good suggestion. At the very least maybe another reaper tree that allows healers to heal themselves better.

blerkington
03-08-2017, 08:27 PM
I agree that it's problematic for healers to be so bad at taking care of themselves in reaper, but I think your proposal is far too broad.

The main issue is that it doesn't differentiate between a healer, a caster divine, a melee divine and various bard builds including some very strong melee ones. Giving offensive caster divines and swash/warchanter bards with a few fighter and rogue levels that much better self healing than everyone else is no good.

It would make more sense to modify certain enhancement trees so people who really are running healers benefit, while people who happen to have healer type class icons but are built for something else entirely do not benefit. That could include spellsinger bards too, but not warchanters or swashbucklers. Maybe the change could include some increase for all divines and spellsingers, and larger increases for specialist healers.

I'd also like to see temp HP for warlocks scaled down based on the difficulty level in reaper content. It seems pretty egregious to me that lump of cheese remains untouched while healing was made so much harder.

Thanks.

TDarkchylde
03-11-2017, 11:27 PM
You can't really differentiate between a caster divine/bard and a healer build because of two factors:

1. Both healbots and caster builds run pure or close to it
2. Casters usually take a lot from the healing tree because their melee is purposely not invested in, or their caster tree already aids healing (Druids and Bards)

There's no real way to force some kind of distinction through feats or enhancements, because if it's an option, they'll take it anyway because they can. The same could be argued for Spellsingers with investment in Swashbuckling (and using their casting stat as a melee stat.)

As well, if you're doing something like a pure/near-pure divine or bard and trying to melee or tank, you're already giving up a lot compared to a "true" melee in the DPS department, or defensively compared to a "true" tank. In normal content, the balance is that you're giving up those things for survivability. If you put healing amp nerf mitigation in the "healing" tree, take a wild guess at what will happen. Melee divines aren't giving up much of anything because they're not investing in the casting tree.

If you did try, you couldn't use any of Tiers 1-4, because that's low-hanging fruit begging for small splashes to abuse it. If you put it in the cores, specifically a high core, you mess up 15 to 17-level healing builds (or even ANY nonpure if you make it a capstone) that splash for other reasons, and you gate it so that players at lower levels entirely can't use it. Make it Tier 5, and you have both problems at once - 5-level splashes will rule, and no one can get it til at least level 12.

That all said, none of that is a good reason to keep the status quo we have now where the healer can't heal herself or himself. Nothing is foolproof, you can't get rid of every attempt to game the system. Sometimes you have to accept that some people might game it and live with that, in order to fix a glaring flaw in it. Healers being unable to heal themselves is a very glaring flaw.

bls904c2
03-12-2017, 12:57 AM
how about the opposite of wizardry items

wizardry IV item is 100

pure sorc or fvs = 200

10fighter/ 10 sorc = 150

20 fighter = 100

but make it for cleric or fvs in reverse with a twist

all classes that natually get heal spells cleric, fvs, bard, pali, druid, ranger should be able to use them they are granted to them

levels 1-6 gets 1% per level better self heals up to 6% better self heals

levels 7-12 get 2% per level better heals for an additional of 12% better self heals

levels 13 -20 get 3% per level better heals for and additional 24% better self heals

and a pure cleric gets it doubled for a total of 84% better self heals in reaper

pure druid, bard, pali, ranger, fvs gets 42% better self heals in reaper

so in reaper 60% penalty on a pure cleric actually becomes a 24% bonus to self heals

and on a pure bard 60% penalty becomes a 18% penalty


a 10 cleric 10 fighter would be 12% better heals so a 48% penalty

a 15 cleric 4 pali 1 fighter would be 39% better self heals so a 21% penalty

while a 10 druid, 6 ranger 4 figher would be unfortantly 30% better self heals becomes a 30% penalty to self heals

and if that is to strong cut it in half


levels 1-6 gets .5% per level better self heals up to 3% better self heals

levels 7-12 get 1% per level better heals for an additional of 6% better self heals

levels 13 -20 get 1.5% per level better heals for and additional 12% better self heals

and a pure cleric gets it doubled for a total of 42% better self heals in reaper

pure druid, bard, pali, ranger, fvs gets 21% better self heals in reaper

Propane
03-12-2017, 01:03 AM
I have had similar thoughts - especially during non-combat times it is hard to heal yourself with out spend a lot of time chugging pots / reading scrolls.

I like the challenge Reaper brings - but am not a fan of the "down time" between fights nursing the groups wounds.

My suggesting is something more along the lines of Archer's Focus ... AKA Healing Focus.

When you have been stationary and not interrupted for 5 seconds, your Self-healing penalty is reduced by 10% to a max of 50% reduction.
This will allow folks to more quickly nurse their wounds between fights, but not have much affect on fighting itself.

Thoughts?

TDarkchylde
03-12-2017, 01:00 PM
I have had similar thoughts - especially during non-combat times it is hard to heal yourself with out spend a lot of time chugging pots / reading scrolls.

I like the challenge Reaper brings - but am not a fan of the "down time" between fights nursing the groups wounds.

My suggesting is something more along the lines of Archer's Focus ... AKA Healing Focus.

When you have been stationary and not interrupted for 5 seconds, your Self-healing penalty is reduced by 10% to a max of 50% reduction.
This will allow folks to more quickly nurse their wounds between fights, but not have much affect on fighting itself.

Thoughts?

That's a pretty good idea, actually. The fact that the fights themselves are a challenge is a net positive. Something like that which would work outside of combat is a nice idea. Trying to lick one's own wounds as a Divine feels like trying to heal a Barb with CSW pots back before their enhancement pass.

I'm not expecting the idea I had to get in verbatim, but any change that benefits healers in Reaper is a good thing.

Mr_Helmet
03-12-2017, 01:05 PM
Just remove the self-healing penalty completely

Propane
03-12-2017, 01:24 PM
Just remove the self-healing penalty completely

You know that would make stuff too easy..... dig a little deeper and try suggesting something along the lines of the OP

SirValentine
03-14-2017, 09:22 AM
A bit of a tangent, but I'd like to see all the de-buffs automatically round up.

So your damage never gets de-buffed all the way to zero, and your self-healing never gets de-buffed all the way to zero, either.

Would it really be OP if Lesser Restoration potions could remove 1 point of ability damage? Or if Cure potions could give back 1 HP? Or if low-power HoTs like the Regeneration item effect gave back 1 HP per tick?

TDarkchylde
03-17-2017, 11:55 PM
A bit of a tangent, but I'd like to see all the de-buffs automatically round up.

So your damage never gets de-buffed all the way to zero, and your self-healing never gets de-buffed all the way to zero, either.

Would it really be OP if Lesser Restoration potions could remove 1 point of ability damage? Or if Cure potions could give back 1 HP? Or if low-power HoTs like the Regeneration item effect gave back 1 HP per tick?

/signed

Absolutely.