View Full Version : Update SLAs to make them Better in Epic/Legendary Content

02-12-2017, 06:34 PM
My son and I came up with some ideas to possibly make SLAs scale better into epic/legendary content. The idea is to work together to come up with better SLAs ideas. Please feel free to add to, modify, etc. In some cases new spells are required...I'm looking at you, Weird (although Weird kind of exists as Visage of Terror).

Prerequisite Thoughts:

First, make the SLA a choice similar to how you can choose between Reverberate and Suggestion in the Spellsinger tree.
Second, the "optional" SLA would only be selectable at level 20 or higher. Note: There may be some circumstances where changing the SLA is not necessary nor desirable in certain circumstances (e.g. changing from Negative Energy Burst to Destruction in the Dark Divine Disciple tree).
Third, the SLA should fit thematically or based on spell type (i.e. abjuration replaced with another abjuration spell).
Fourth, the "Master of " epic feats should affect the new SLAs as appropriate (e.g. Master of Earth should affect Acid Rain and Black Dragon Bolt). See, Earth Savant below.
Fifth, the first SLA column below may be chosen during heroic and/or epic levels. The second SLA column may only be chosen once a character has attained level 20 or higher.
Sixth, while this list is exhaustive, it is not perfect and any constructive input is greatly appreciated. There are a few ??? below, feel free to help out.

Sorcerer SLAs

Savant Heroic/Epic SLA Epic-Only SLA

Air Shocking Grasp Eladar's Electric Surge
Electric Loop Ball Lightning
Lightning Bolt Chain Lightning

Water Niac's Cold Ray Niac's Biting Cold
Snowball Swarm Otiluke's Freezing Sphere
Frost Lance Cone of Cold

Fire Burning Hands Scorching Ray
Scorch Delayed Blast Fireball
Fireball Meteor Swarm

Earth Acid Spray Acid Rain
Melf's Acid Arrow Black Dragon Bolt
Acid Blast Acid Blast (increased dc, damage)

Druid SLAs

Heroic/Epic SLA Epic-Only SLA

Season's Herald Produce Flame Fireseeds
Creeping Cold Greater Creeping Cold
Call Lightning Call Lightning Storm
Word of Balance Word of Balance (increased damage)


Heroic/Epic SLA Epic-Only SLA

Arcanotechnician Static Shock Prismatic Strike
Lightning Sphere Tactical Detonation
Blast Rod ???
Lightning Motes ???

Heroic/Epic SLA Epic-Only SLA

Spellsinger Sonic Blast Sonic Blast (increased dc, damage, stun duration)
Reverberate/Suggestion Reverberate (increased damage)/Mass Suggestion
Shout Greater Shout

Heroic/Epic SLA Epic-Only SLA

Divine Disciple (Dark) Chill Touch Slay Living
Necrotic Bolt Harm
Negative Energy Burst Destruction
Inflict Moderate Wounds Mass Inflict Critical Wounds Mass

Divine Disciple (Light) Nimbus of Light Sunbolt
Searing Light Sunbeam
Holy Smite Sunburst
Flamestrike Firestorm

Heroic/Epic SLA Epic-Only SLA

Tainted Scholar Command Greater Command

Souleater Burning Blood Burning Blood (increased damage)
Finger of Death Wail of the Banshee

Heroic/Epic SLA Epic-Only SLA

Archmage (Abjuration) Shield Globe of Invulnerability
Resist Energy Resist Energies
Protection from Energy Protection from Elements
Stoneskin Stoneskin (increased DR)
Dismissal Banishment

Archmage (Conjuration) Grease Teleport
Web Web (no change needed or higher DC)
Stinking Cloud Trap the Soul
Dimension Door Greater Teleport
Cloudkill Power Word Kill

Archmage (Enchantment) Hypnotism Power Word Stun
Otto's Resistible Dance Otto's Irresistible Dance
Hold Person Hold Person Mass
Charm Monster Charm Monster Mass
Hold Monster Hold Monster Mass

Archmage (Evocation) Magic Missiles Force Missiles
Gust of Wind Cone of Cold
Chain Missiles Chain Lightning
Fire Shield Delayed Blast Fireball
Cyclonic Blast Meteor Swarm

Archmage (Illusion) Invisibility Mass Invisibility
Blur Blur (no change needed)
Displacement Displacement (no change needed)
Phantasmal Killer Weird (similar to Visage of Terror)
Shadow Walk Shadow Walk (no change needed)

Archmage (Necromancy) Chill Touch Finger of Death
Command Undead Undeath to Death
Halt Undead Circle of Death
Enervation Energy Drain
Waves of Fatigue Wail of the Banshee

Archmage (Transmutation) Jump Jump (no change needed)
Knock Knock (increased DC)
Haste Haste (no change needed)
Stone to Flesh Disintegrate
Flesh to Stone Reconstruct

Additionally, we have included some possible capstone updates for the Favored Soul.

Angel of Vengeance (Capstone update)

Current SLA Proposed SLA

Bolt of the Sun (Sunbolt) no change needed
Healing Word (Cure Light Wounds) change to Cure Critical Wounds or Heal
Light of the Flame (Searing Light) change to Sun Beam
Protection of the Blade (Shield) change to Tenser's Transformation
Stealth of the Hunter (Invisibility) change to (Invisibility and Displacement cast at same time, if possible) otherwise Mass Invisibility
Voice of the Deathless (Command Undead) change to Undeath to Death
True Knowledge (Command) change to Greater Command
Divine Luck (Lucky Cape) change to new spell (Divine Luck?) would be a +3-5 sacred luck bonus to saving throws?
Repairing the Broken (Repair Serious Damage) change to Reconstruct
Draw Blood (Inflict Moderate Wounds) change to Harm
Eternal Guardian (Mass Aid) change to a spell similar to Blessing of Amaunator (Aid, Spell Resistance, Deathward mass)
Natural Bounty (Vigor) change to Regenerate

02-21-2017, 12:59 PM
Hey everyone,

We've now gotten 80 views and 0 feedback. Just curious if this is just not a good idea or no interest in SLAs or too much dev work for the benefit? We worked really hard putting this together and it is a bit discouraging to not receive a single response in a week.

02-21-2017, 07:22 PM
Seems like a lot of dev work, not that some SLAs don't need improvment. Its a cool concept, but it seems a little overpowered for the content. Perhaps just one epic-worthy SLA in the tier5 could be unlocked at character level (not class level) 20. That could go a long way towards helping primarily casters without going over-the-top. Remember that SLAs (should) benefit from a semi-wide range of metamagics without increased sp costs. So one epic-worthy SLA (unlocked at character level 20) in the Tier5 for each primarily caster tree would be fairly beneficial.

I appreciate all the work you went to in order to logically and progressively lay this out. I just don't think the majority of the player base or the devs for that matter would want to add this much further power to casters.

typing this fast on phone so please excuse errors.

02-22-2017, 03:18 PM
I agree in that this seems like a lot of work. One "simple" thing that could be done to help out in epic / legendary content is to make SLAs change a mobs blanket immunity to be half damage. For example, I leveled up a fire sorc recently, and found that in a lot of legendary quests, tons of mobs are totally immune to fire. At least let me do half damage on my SLAs, instead of making my character / build mostly useless.

02-22-2017, 03:48 PM
The band-aid for SLAs in epic content is the Master of X feats, which raise the sla's max level by 10 in most cases. Master of artifice is the best one IMO.