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Wonedream
01-05-2017, 11:29 PM
I am considering options for a Barbarian Dwarf x2 pick axe Barbarian. I would prefer to avoid using capstone lvl 20, but want at least level lvl 18 for some goodies and tireless rage. Is there anything out there that you can pick up that shines as much as capstone, or even more? That Capstone seems impossible to beat... all that DPS... I do not mind trading a bit of DPS for a lot of survivability though, afterall, it is one thing to pump out a lot of DPS, but surviving in the process is obviously a part of any build that works.

Binkii Bargo
Dwarf
Barbarian 18 (Ravager prime and berzerker secondary)
Fighter 1 (for +1 feat and heavy armor... druids can wear heavy dragon scale)
Druid 1 (beguiling)

Enhancements
Ravager (39, Blood Strength, Uncanny Balance, Critical Rage +2 range on pick axes, Subsiding Fury)
Berzerker (21, Frenzied Toughness)
Dwarf (18 for pick axes line to reach Throw your Weight)
Seasoned Herald (2 for beguiling)

Dump all on Constitution for maximum damage.

Is this sacrificing too much DPS for a feat, heavy armor, and beguiling? The idea is to have decent DPS, close to best possible, but to have overall much better survivability to go with it. Any thoughts? Is there a better Barbarian multi build out there? Anything that can compete with a pure Barbarian?

Wonedream
01-06-2017, 02:14 AM
I am probably gonna change that into Barbarian 18 / FVS 1/ Druid 1 and pick up heavy armor the hard way.

Scrap the Throw your Weight... too many enhancement points... want that +1 crit from berzerker death frenzy.. it goes well with Ravager +2 range.

Enhancements
Ravager (39, Blood Strength, Uncanny Balance, Critical Rage +2 range on pick axes, Subsiding Fury)
Berzerker (31, Death Frenzy)
Favored Soul (2, Divine Might)
Seasoned Herald (4, Beguiling)
Occult Slayer (4, Extended Rage)

This picks up some nice things. Binkii will have to work on his good manners to gain beefy Divine Might bonuses, by getting Charisma high enough it can even topple Storm's Eye because you can cast it more frequently and the bonus to hit helps with crits (with an good range). It will take a lot of work to get his Charisma high enough for this to start happening, but it will be there when it does.

1 - TWF
3 - Heavy Armor
6 - Precision
9 - Improved Crits
12 - ITWF
15 - GTWF
18 - ? Not sure yet

giftie
01-06-2017, 08:47 AM
I am probably gonna change that into Barbarian 18 / FVS 1/ Druid 1 and pick up heavy armor the hard way.

...

18 - ? Not sure yet

Or just take Cleric instead of FvS.

After dropping all racial poins, why Dwarf instead of Human? Flavor?
You might regret not getting any cleaves, even with TWF.

unbongwah
01-06-2017, 09:36 AM
Is this sacrificing too much DPS for a feat, heavy armor, and beguiling?
Yes. And I say that as someone with CON-based pure dwarf barb builds (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470544-Adventures-in-Theorycrafting-Kundarak-Krasher) in his stable. TYWA is an expensive flavor choice. Heavy armor protection was nerfed in U28, so unless you plan to use Shadow Guardian (still the only source of DR 30, but other armors offer better DPS), it's unnecessary. [In fact a barb w/Epic DR in med armor has higher PRR and Dodge bonus than barb w/hvy armor but no epic DR.] As I mentioned elsewhere, Beguile was nerfed and no longer effects bosses.

Probably the only thing which might have equal or better DPS than pure barb (while still being majority-barb) is something like barb 12 / ftr 8 or barb 12 / ftr 6 / FvS or cleric 2: T5 Ravager + T4 Kensei (Opportunity Atk) + Supreme Cleave + Div Might, basically. And even then I'm reluctant to say it's better so much as different; in particular, you can probably hit higher DCs for Stunning Blow et al that way.

Wonedream
01-06-2017, 01:20 PM
Well, scrap that idea then. Lol. I hate the exhausting effects after raging, I think its that -10% speed most of all. I did consider a Ravager 6 / Ranger 12/ Fighter 2 or FvS 2 Option, I think I could get DPS to compete this way, but... Poor Binkii would spend his questing days gasping for air because he can't handle the rage... (new famous quote... "Give me the Rage!!!" "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE RAGE!!!!!")

He has to be mixed class because making another pure barbarian is pointless to me... I got 3 of them already (though I am seriously considering to remake my pure Ravager into a 2wf instead of 2hf.

So either

The Maul of Death
Fighter 8 / Ranger 6 / Paladin 6

Basically he would be a 2WF and 2HF in one, picking up the +1 to crits and losing +1 range on 2wf in exchange for Dance of Death (thus the build's name.. Maul of Death) . I made a test toon out based on this and it was a beast... Silvanus Maul for mobs and 2 pick axes for singles and bosses. It was pumping out DPS at a very impressive rate, was tough, and tons of fun to play... felt like an elite warrior just clowning the mobs. Lots of numbers popping up, obviously more then 2HF Maulers only. The build was so much fun that I have designated this build for either Binki, or another toon of mine. Pick Axes are the most important aspect for Binkii, he is ready to TR and a devoted Pick Axe fighter, but doesn't mind throwing Mauls into the mix.

or

Master of Picks and Hammers
Monk 12 / Kensai 6 / Ranger 2

No, he is not Silvanus (the one Deity the really cares about his followers and doesn't give them ****** useless piece of **** abilities with no temptation or interest to use at all... seriously?... a stupid scorpian that doesn't level up for EE... they need to fix that... almost all those deity gifts suck) this way (though Monk 6 / Kensai 8 / Paladin 6 might be worth considering to Silvanus-ize his Maul... ). This build has him as a Kensai to get both +1 range and +1 crit on his Mauls (wait... wouldn't that stack with Silvanus for +3 o range as Kensai... hmmmm maybe Monk 6 / Palidan 6 / Fighter 8 is way better...). Monk gives +40 melee, Kensai another +20 melee, Paladin (if I go 6) gives Silvanus Mauls at the cost of 10 melee (so worth it really) but ranger gives him options with Mauls and Hammers, making it easy for him to master both and switch Maul for Picks as needed. Basically this set up is loaded with goodies that make it very attractive.

If the Monk 12 / Kensai 6 / Ranger 2 idea goes to my other toon (who will take Either Maul of Death build formerly mentioned.. which stays the same how it is) then it would be a Monk Kensai specializing in Monk Weapons, gaining +1 crit and range for all monk weapons, +60 melee (with +20 bonuses here and there from opportunity), proccing 100% of the time, with decent double striking DPS jumps up fast. It also would give +1 range and +1 crit to Handwrap fighting, something pure Monk can't get on their own. I liked the idea of him being able to switch for Handwraps (bludgeoning), Short Swords (pierce), Kamas (slashing, Staffs (mobs), and even Zen Archery for some ranged fighting when it serves better. I am wondering if Short Swords and Bows become focused martial weapons once they become Ki Weapons through feat and ninja enhancements? That would be so awesome if they did!!! Does anyone know?

Wonedream
01-06-2017, 01:32 PM
Or just take Cleric instead of FvS.

After dropping all racial poins, why Dwarf instead of Human? Flavor?
You might regret not getting any cleaves, even with TWF.

Yeah, Flavor really. I got like... 3 Dwarfs out of 56 toons, and he is one of them. But, I might soon end up with yet another PDK (those big weapons... I... can't... must... have big animated weapons... more... FUN!!!) and only 2 Dwarfs left to represent th Dwarven race, and one of them is an Artificer (making representation very difficult) whilst the other is a happy and very successful Occult Slayer pure Barb who loves his Maul too much to let go of it. Oddly enough, he doesnt have any of the other prestige healing, and yet stands the toughest hardest to kill Barb of my 3 prestige Barbs, and his damage was much better then I thought it would be. Half Orcs havent done so well either, I got... 3 of them also. And halflings... only 2. PDKs and Bladeforged have taken over, mostly PDKs lolol...

It would be a sad moment to lose yet another Dwarf to the big and more awesome animated PDK. Too bad they didn't make giant Dwarfs lol... or at least give em bigger weapons like PDKs get... a short sword... isn't so small you need to get your microscope out to see it... big hammers, so much fun... I am thinking those Pick Axes will look great super sized. If Binkii turns his back on the Dwarven Race and goes PDK, there will be a funeral ceremony of the remaining Dwarves... military style with a horn bugle and drums... as the Dwarven people gather in these dark times as their population goes on the endangered species list... so sad! Not Binkii.. that is losing too much... haven't decided yet... but weapons almost twice the size...

Enoach
01-06-2017, 01:40 PM
Just some notes about the Rage and the Exhausted effect. This is actually something very easy to over come with a supply of Lesser Restoration Potions.

Might I recommend Ranger/Fighter levels. If 18 was only for the Tireless rage portion using the Lesser Restoration Potions can replace that.

As for Dwarf you are right 18 AP to use Con can seem a bit daunting especially when you are tight on AP. But I do recommend 2 ranks in Iron Stomach. Then pick up every potion you can, it does not matter the initial effect the 2 ranks will add a remove Poison/Disease with a small timer where you can't be effected by these effects (the supernatural ones still do). This makes a very cheap potion into something as either a preventative before you run in against poison or disease carriers (rats, undead etc.) Or as a cure to those.

unbongwah
01-06-2017, 01:58 PM
Let me see, where did I leave that build...

*rummages thru rubbish bin*

...ah, here we go!

Picks of RAGE
18/2 Barbarian/Ranger
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Ranger 6. Barbarian 11. Barbarian 16. Barbarian
2. Barbarian 7. Barbarian 12. Ranger 17. Barbarian
3. Barbarian 8. Barbarian 13. Barbarian 18. Barbarian
4. Barbarian 9. Barbarian 14. Barbarian 19. Barbarian
5. Barbarian 10. Barbarian 15. Barbarian 20. Barbarian


Stats
32pt 34pt 36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- ---- ---- --------
Strength 16 16 16 4: STR
Dexterity 14 14 14 +3 8: STR
Constitution 14 15 16 12: STR
Intelligence 16 16 16 +2 16: STR
Wisdom 8 8 8 20: STR
Charisma 8 8 8 24: STR
28: STR

Feats

1 : Power Attack
1 Human : Cleave
1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
3 : Point Blank Shot
6 : Great Cleave
9 : Improved Critical: Piercing
12 : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15 : Manyshot
18 : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Improved Critical: Ranged OR Stunning Blow
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction OR Armor Proficiency: Heavy
28 Destiny: Doubleshot OR First Blood
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Harbinger of Chaos
30 Epic : Blinding Speed OR Epic Fortitude
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Plane of Earth


Enhancements (80 AP)

Ravager (39 AP)


Furious Rage, Pain Touch, Demoralizing Success, Pain Touch II, Subsiding Fury

Do You Like Pain? III, Barbarian Power Attack III
I Like Pain III, Cruel Cut III, Melee Power Boost III
Festering Wound III, Strength
I Hit Back! III, Dismember III
Blood Strength, Uncanny Balance, Critical Rage II



Frenzied Berserker (31 AP)


Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness, Frenzy, Frenzied Toughness II, Death Frenzy

Extra Rage III, Power Rage III, Athletics III
Blood Tribute III, Extra Action Boost III
Blood Trail III, Supreme Cleave III, Constitution



Harper Agent (7 AP)


Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Know the Angles II



Human (3 AP)


Damage Boost

Improved Recovery




Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought


Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack
Lay Waste, Critical Damage I, Haste Boost III
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz


Twists of Fate (35 fate points)


Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
Primal Scream (Tier 1 Fury)


TWF with heavy picks (b/c I'm sick of khopesh builds) plus Manyshot. Although it uses Carnifex and/or SOS until lvl 12 so I could start with lower DEX and delay ITWF to lvl 12. GS or Maiming Rocksplitters (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Maiming_Rocksplitter) would be my first choice for picks at that level, followed shortly by Deathnips (http://ddowiki.com/page/Deathnip), ofc.

Crit Rage applies to bows so they become 18-20/x3 (17-20 w/IC:Ranged). I think Death Frenzy applies too but I won't swear to that.

Switching to dwarf would mean dropping a feat and delaying either Gt Cleave or PBS+Manyshot. Switching to TYWA is trickier; I guess drop FB to ~15 APs (Supreme Cleave) so you can move those APs into the racial tree.

It's not a max-DPS pure barb so obviously it's just a flavor build. :rolleyes: But at least there's a point to it.

Niminae
03-04-2017, 09:01 AM
Let me see, where did I leave that build...



I'm curious as to why the 2 Ranger splash. 2 Fighter instead would allow you to pick the TWF feat and have another one granted, and would give heavy armor for free and open up Heavy Armor Training.

Enoach
03-04-2017, 10:20 AM
I'm curious as to why the 2 Ranger splash. 2 Fighter instead would allow you to pick the TWF feat and have another one granted, and would give heavy armor for free and open up Heavy Armor Training.

The trade off between the 2 Fighter vs 2 Ranger

Fighter
2 Fighter Feats
+3 Fortitude Save
2+Int Modifier for Skill Points
Heavy Armor
Tower Shield

vs

Ranger
+3 Fortitude Save
+3 Reflex Save
Wild Empathy
Favored Enemy
Bow Strength
Rapid Shot
Two Weapon Fighting *
6+Int Modifier for Skill Points

*Tempest Ranger Enhancement for 1AP can get you the Two Weapon Fighting Feat at your first level of Ranger

Ranger gives you the ability to use a bow with a bit more power behind it. The trade off of the Medium Armor vs Heavy Armor. For fighter the question is will the 2nd Fighter Feat + Heavy Armor contribute as much or more then the feats granted by the Ranger Levels?

unbongwah
03-04-2017, 05:38 PM
I'm curious as to why the 2 Ranger splash. 2 Fighter instead would allow you to pick the TWF feat and have another one granted, and would give heavy armor for free and open up Heavy Armor Training.
Rgr 2 provides free Bow STR, Rapid Shot, and TWF - a net gain of 3 feats vs 2 from ftr - all of which are put to use by this build. And if I dropped Manyshot, I'd stick with pure barb if I was making a melee-only build, not splash ftr. Use a feat slot for +3 PRR/MRR? Not worth it, IMO. A barb in med armor gets +10 PRR from Gtr Rage, which is almost enough to close the gap with heavy armor; plus they have higher Dodge in med armor so it's basically a wash defensively.