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View Full Version : Increase the drop rate on the old shard/seal/scroll epic items



lostintheswamp
12-30-2016, 01:03 PM
This would take literally 10 minutes and make a lot of players very happy, without adversely affecting balance in the game. The old-style epics make for the best ETR "twink" gear, are fun to collect, and are something a lot of players enjoy. But grinding for endless years in search of certain items is getting old.

Enoach
12-30-2016, 01:08 PM
I would be happy with an expansion of the Sands Scroll Turn ins for 3 scrolls for one you want. Expanding that out to Seals and Shards for all areas.

I would even be willing to pay RAID Tokens as part of the cost.

nomaddog
12-30-2016, 01:38 PM
My wife and I were discussing this the other day. Considering how most legacy named items that needed shards/seals/scrolls to become epic have been outpaced by random lootgen, I think it's time to consider expanding the exchange beyond just scrolls from Sands of Menechtarun.

Allow the trading in of seals and shards as well. Not just for Sands, but for all epic items that require shard/seal/scroll. You can limit it to seals for seals, shards for shards, etc and only for that specific quest chain. I could definitely get behind something like this. I've got bags full of shards/seals/scrolls and so many that I'm just missing one of the items to complete making something epic.

lostintheswamp
12-30-2016, 01:44 PM
My wife and I were discussing this the other day. Considering how most legacy named items that needed shards/seals/scrolls to become epic have been outpaced by random lootgen, I think it's time to consider expanding the exchange beyond just scrolls from Sands of Menechtarun.

Allow the trading in of seals and shards as well. Not just for Sands, but for all epic items that require shard/seal/scroll. You can limit it to seals for seals, shards for shards, etc and only for that specific quest chain. I could definitely get behind something like this. I've got bags full of shards/seals/scrolls and so many that I'm just missing one of the items to complete making something epic.

The only problem is if we start encouraging the devs to tinker with that system, they might also decide to "update" the old school epics, ruining them in the process by changing the MLs. The whole reason these items are still desirable is that they have a lot of good stuff on them for an ML20 item.

The Epic Sword of Shadow is still a highly sought after item. But change its ML to 28 and no one will care.

Building out/expanding a trade in system takes a lot of time, and to justify it, someone's going to want to tinker with the gear. We don't want that.

Adding a few points to the drop rate takes no effort and little time.

Qhualor
12-30-2016, 01:58 PM
The only problem is if we start encouraging the devs to tinker with that system, they might also decide to "update" the old school epics, ruining them in the process by changing the MLs. The whole reason these items are still desirable is that they have a lot of good stuff on them for an ML20 item.

The Epic Sword of Shadow is still a highly sought after item. But change its ML to 28 and no one will care.

Building out/expanding a trade in system takes a lot of time, and to justify it, someone's going to want to tinker with the gear. We don't want that.

Adding a few points to the drop rate takes no effort and little time.

increasing the drop rate or doing a trade in wouldn't get me to make most of the old epic gear. the drop rate could be 100% and there still would be only a few items that drop from the Sands that I still care about. random and crafted loot has surpassed a lot of the old gear.

no need to change the ML. just power creep that old gear to scale basically +2 better than what you can get from random and crafted and in some cases add an augment slot or 2. this is what would get me to run that old content for more than xp and would get more players to run them again.

lostintheswamp
12-30-2016, 03:17 PM
no need to change the ML.

But they would change the ML.

Don't pretend like they wouldn't.

Right now, the devs have a raging nerd-boner for ML 28 ****. Once you start encouraging them to "update" the loot, someone is going to want to leave their mark. We'll get a combination of level ranges "adjusted" to be in line with the quest level, and power creep "adjusted" down. The items will still be worse than loot gen, and the drop rates will be completely unchanged. But what value a few of the old items once had will have been erased.

Qhualor
12-30-2016, 03:56 PM
But they would change the ML.

Don't pretend like they wouldn't.

Right now, the devs have a raging nerd-boner for ML 28 ****. Once you start encouraging them to "update" the loot, someone is going to want to leave their mark. We'll get a combination of level ranges "adjusted" to be in line with the quest level, and power creep "adjusted" down. The items will still be worse than loot gen, and the drop rates will be completely unchanged. But what value a few of the old items once had will have been erased.

that wouldn't make any sense to change the ML of the ML 20 epic gear to 28, especially if all they did was boost the current affects to be a little better than same level range crafted and random loot. that would be some serious scaling that would have to be compared to LGS, EOrchard, ESlavers, etc. making that named loot level 28 would pretty much wipe out any named loot in the low epic levels and would have to replace them with new low level epic named loot.

between level 20-23 the named loot has fallen well behind crafted and random loot. 24-26, the named loot is starting to fall behind and becoming niche. 27-30, has plenty of powerful epic gear, too powerful in some cases. there is no consistency with the named loot anymore as more and more power is added to the game with character enhancements and upper level epic gear. when a lot of the fairly recent new loot is implemented it outshines at least some of the previous named loot. you see more hard choices in the 28-30 range, but no where else. I used to take the time every update to update my characters end game gear plan, but I stopped doing that this past year because it changed too much and decided to wait until I was actually on my last life to worry about all that. if low level epics were more challenging than I would care about what gear I use while leveling and run specific quests for that loot, but its not worth the effort when crafted and random loot is better.

lostintheswamp
12-30-2016, 04:16 PM
that wouldn't make any sense to change the ML of the ML 20 epic gear to 28,

It didn't make any sense to remove an essence type bottleneck and replace it with a MASSIVE collectibles bottleneck when they overhauled Cannith Crafting, but the devs did that anyway. It doesn't make sense to continually release extremely powerful named items but ONLY at levels 15 and 28, ignoring all other level ranges, but they keep on doing that.

Asking the devs to do things that make sense is asking too much.

My simple solution takes 10 minutes to implement and has 0 potential for screw-ups(how do you mess up changing a value?). Any kind of overhaul will take weeks of dev time and offer massive potential for screw ups. Just the time involved alone means its likely not going to happen(look how long it took us to get a borked crafting update). The Devs have not shown a lot of willingness to revisit old systems.

But getting them to just tweak the drop rates a little is something that could happen if people push for that instead of an ill-advised overhaul.

Gljosh
12-30-2016, 04:17 PM
Personally, I would love to see them specific shards and seals removed and replaced with fragments (still shard and seals). That way you can just acquire the fragments and build what you need, but that would take some time to adjust loot tables.

So I like the idea of taking pack specific shards and seals and trading them in (with Raid Tokens-this might get people to run the older raids?) at 3 to 1 for non raid/wilderness loot and 5 to 1 for raid/wilderness loot.

Qhualor
12-30-2016, 04:35 PM
It didn't make any sense to remove an essence type bottleneck and replace it with a MASSIVE collectibles bottleneck when they overhauled Cannith Crafting, but the devs did that anyway. It doesn't make sense to continually release extremely powerful named items but ONLY at levels 15 and 28, ignoring all other level ranges, but they keep on doing that.

Asking the devs to do things that make sense is asking too much.

My simple solution takes 10 minutes to implement and has 0 potential for screw-ups(how do you mess up changing a value?). Any kind of overhaul will take weeks of dev time and offer massive potential for screw ups. Just the time involved alone means its likely not going to happen(look how long it took us to get a borked crafting update). The Devs have not shown a lot of willingness to revisit old systems.

But getting them to just tweak the drop rates a little is something that could happen if people push for that instead of an ill-advised overhaul.

Cannith crafting fell so far behind that many players stopped doing it. it was an overly complicated system that needed to be simplified. the collectable drop rates in specific cases, like for me its Polished Ore, needs some tweaking. the collectable issue that some players are having and did have when it first came out was that they had stopped collecting over the years and didn't build up a stock pile. suddenly crafting was useful again. loot drop rate mechanics improved so much over the recent years so that you could actually calculate how long it took to acquire your named gear from quests, crafted and raids that they have gotten used to that system. now, with collectables tied to a level range it gives more reason to craft, spend plat, trade and more reason to run certain quests for collectables they want. Cannith crafting does still need some improvements, but its massively better than what it used to be.

your way only makes it so drop rates increase. where is the incentive to care about old epic named loot when crafting, random and named loot from other packs are better? what is the incentive to run those quests for more than xp? increase the drop rates for all I care. my stacks of s/s/s will only grow, shards and seals will continue to get passed to someone else as a joke and you will be lucky if you can sell the scrolls on the AH for more than 10k plat. your way does not increase value. it actually makes them even more valueless than they are now.

its most likely the devs will not revisit old epic loot. its more likely they will introduce new quests with new loot and watch the old quests get played even less and that loot will have even less value than it does now, especially if they increase the drop rates as you suggest. but, all I did was share an opinion that I thought made more sense by revitalizing existing old named loot and existing quests.

lostintheswamp
12-31-2016, 06:49 PM
your way only makes it so drop rates increase.

That's all I was asking for, because you might actually get something small enough.


where is the incentive to care about old epic named loot

The incentive is that a whole lot of people already want those items. Some of us have spent 10 years farming for them with no success. A lot of us would love an epic Sword of Shadow or an epic Ring of Spell Storing. Upping the drop rate a little(say 3-4x current rate) would do that and take 0 resources.

Building/overhauling/expanding an antiquated system would cost resources, meaning its not going to happen.

But, thanks to people like you, those of us still searching for that elusive eSoS will forever be buried behind a wall of people asking for something that they will never get.

Thanks.

Qhualor
12-31-2016, 08:15 PM
The incentive is that a whole lot of people already want those items. Some of us have spent 10 years farming for them with no success. A lot of us would love an epic Sword of Shadow or an epic Ring of Spell Storing. Upping the drop rate a little(say 3-4x current rate) would do that and take 0 resources.

Building/overhauling/expanding an antiquated system would cost resources, meaning its not going to happen.

But, thanks to people like you, those of us still searching for that elusive eSoS will forever be buried behind a wall of people asking for something that they will never get.

Thanks.

I actually don't see "a whole lot" of people that want them. I don't know how many Chronoscopes, Sentinels, Carnivals, Red Fens, Vons, Sands I have run over the years, but its a lot and rare these days for me to hear someone looking for something specific from those packs or puts the shards and seals up for roll. a few months ago I was helping a guy in the Sands to get certain shards and seals once a day for days, but that was the first farm group I had seen in years. look at the AH. there has hardly been any scrolls on there for years. SOS scrolls was considered a steal at 2 million plat and now I see them posted for 50k plat as a buyout. every other scroll is like 10k. you can hardly give them away for free now. if there were "a lot" than prices would be much higher, there would be a trade market again, there would be farming groups and there would be players actually saying something in groups.

no matter what you do in this game, it will always cost resources. it costs resources just to fix string table errors and putting in the correct splash screen. you are more likely to see "a lot" of players pushing for an overhaul to revitalize old loot and quests than you are likely to see players pushing to water down an outdated system even more by increasing drop rates. what little value is left in that antiquated loot system would be even less valuable thus causing more dominoes to fall. in other words, everything has a cause and affect.

sorry you and I disagree, but I am only stating an opinion. its always good to look at all angles to a situation and see the bad just as much as the good. like I said earlier, there are still a few Sands items I would love to epic, but because they are so rare to get, its incentive for to me to keep running those quests and raid. I've had my ESOS since 2010 and can make 3 more if I wanted to. my only incentive to run Von 5 is for the xp these days. in 6 all I do is help with pillars and teleport out before completion because there is nothing left for me to care about. after I am done with past lives, what reason do I have to keep running Von? at least I still have more of a reason than xp to run Sands.

lostintheswamp
12-31-2016, 09:18 PM
I actually don't see "a whole lot" of people that want them.

You've clearly never talked to anyone on a von 6 run, apparently.

Qhualor
12-31-2016, 09:28 PM
You've clearly never talked to anyone on a von 6 run, apparently.

out of the hundreds of epic items from the s/s/s system, are there any others besides ESOS and RoSS you can use for your argument? as I said, there are very few items from this old system that has some value left thus creating what's left for incentive aside from xp.

lostintheswamp
12-31-2016, 10:01 PM
out of the hundreds of epic items from the s/s/s system, are there any others besides ESOS and RoSS you can use for your argument? as I said, there are very few items from this old system that has some value left thus creating what's left for incentive aside from xp.

Epic chimeras fang
epic red dragonscale docent
most of the epic items from the spinners chain
most epic weapons, really.
the epic abashai set

The list goes on and on.

A lot of the items aren't great, but the weapons are some of the best around for those first few epic levels.

Then of course there's all the collectors out there, again if you'd actually freaking talk to other players instead of spending all your time on the forums listening to the vocal minority, you'd know that a ton of people just collect the old epic items for fun.

blerkington
12-31-2016, 10:27 PM
There are still a bunch of old epic items I'm missing. It would be great to complete more of them before the game goes bust or I die of old age, so I'd welcome any changes that make it easier to get the pieces.

The epic items I still use (either while levelling or as utility items at endgame) are:

Epic Kundarak Delving Boots
Epic Envenomed Cloak
Epic Goggles of Time-Sensing
Epic Thornlord
Epic Midnight Greetings
Epic Phiarlan Spy Dagger
Epic Golden Guile
Epic Seal of Earth
Epic Wolf Whistle
Epic Dusk Heart
Epic Mask of Comedy
Epic Winter's Wrath
Epic Brimstone Verge

Items I'm still trying to complete are:

Epic Ring of Spell Storing
Epic Twisted Talisman (second one)
Epic Bow of Elements (Air)
Epic Pouch of Jerky
Epic Hammer of Life
Epic Gloves of the Claw
Epic Collapsible Shortbow

Maybe my unnatural lust for old epic items isn't typical, but there are actually quite a few of them that are still good for lower epic levels or as utility items at any level. Certainly more than just the eSoS and the eRoSS.

Thanks.

Qhualor
12-31-2016, 10:47 PM
Epic chimeras fang
epic red dragonscale docent
most of the epic items from the spinners chain
most epic weapons, really.
the epic abashai set

The list goes on and on.

A lot of the items aren't great, but the weapons are some of the best around for those first few epic levels.

Then of course there's all the collectors out there, again if you'd actually freaking talk to other players instead of spending all your time on the forums listening to the vocal minority, you'd know that a ton of people just collect the old epic items for fun.

I do still use a few of the weapons from those old packs and would love to be able to get the last pieces I need for a few others in the Sands, but as you say, not that great. I haven't used Abishai set in a few years and even the ESOS can be replaced after the low levels. I have always said, "one persons junk is another persons treasure", but a lot of those items are still underwhelming compared to random, crafted and more recent named loot. even though a lot of the old epic loot is underwhelming, if there is still value for "just because" than that is all the incentive needed to keep that loot as is and keeps the content run. so actually, you are making the argument to not increase drop rates other than you are probably tired of running the same content over and over for that ultra rare seal or shard that was intentionally made to drop low as one of those reasons.

sithhound
12-31-2016, 10:59 PM
I would like to see the drop rates increased, dramatically for some packs. It'd give me something else to farm. And as others have said, it wouldn't add to powercreep, as basically any new cc level 15 gear will out-perform 95% of the old s/s/s gear.

Boneshank
01-01-2017, 03:26 AM
/signed.

Enoach
01-03-2017, 12:45 PM
out of the hundreds of epic items from the s/s/s system, are there any others besides ESOS and RoSS you can use for your argument? as I said, there are very few items from this old system that has some value left thus creating what's left for incentive aside from xp.

Now I'm not going to say every epic item from this system holds well vs Random Gen Epic items. But there are some that have some nice utility.

I like the Epic Wolf Whistle - The CR35 Hound is a tough summon. Now not everyone likes summons

I like the Epic Roderic's Wand - The CR's suck mostly especially compared to the Wolf Whistle but I have found good utility in Summons and this recharges over time.

I like the Epic Eternal Wands - Sure they are not as strong as casting the spells themselves but in times when SP is tight these wands (with enhancements/PLs) can be an extra source of damage so you don't have to sit back and wait on shrine.

I like the Epic Twisted Talisman - Sure it is not a lot of SP restored but a [Epic] 250 SP reserve (5 charges of 50 sp) + [Heroic] 150 reserve (3 charges of 50 sp) adds up. Now the damage might seem a bit scary for some but there are ways to heal this. The biggest issue is simply the time to use the charges, I know many don't like to stop, prep and move on as they feel they are left behind if they do. I still carry the necklace from Korthos just to have SP for a DDoor or Death Aura.

------
Now again many of the others are more circumstantial in usefulness.

florela41
03-26-2017, 12:28 PM
It didn't make any sense to remove an essence type bottleneck and replace it with a MASSIVE collectibles bottleneck when they overhauled Cannith Crafting, but the devs did that anyway. It doesn't make sense to continually release extremely powerful named items but ONLY at levels 15 and 28, ignoring all other level ranges, but they keep on doing that.

Asking the devs to do things that make sense is asking too much.

My simple solution takes 10 minutes to implement and has 0 potential for screw-ups(how do you mess up changing a value?). Any kind of overhaul will take weeks of dev time and offer massive potential for screw ups. Just the time involved alone means its likely not going to happen(look how long it took us to get a borked crafting update). The Devs have not shown a lot of willingness to revisit old systems.

But getting them to just tweak the drop rates a little is something that could happen if people push for that instead of an ill-advised overhaul.

Increase drop rates now!!!!!!.OMG.

Saekee
03-27-2017, 07:43 AM
if you teally want those items relevant than keep them as is but chamge their ML to 16 from 20. Drop rate won't matter since they will become relevant again--instead of mostly junk (save some exceptions) or gear that is good from 20-22, they would be valued items from 16-22ish or whatever.

I have a lot of SSS stuff and I like it because I am old fashioned with this game.