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Bacab
12-17-2016, 11:22 PM
So I have been back for about a week or so.

About to TR into a Warforged Sorc.

I am old-school so it will be a pure build.

I have not played Sorc in a long time. So I am unfamiliar with the enhancement pass...but here is my idea...

This toon does have Completionist and 2 WIZ past lives 2 Bard past lives and 2 Arty Past lives...I think those are the only doubled up.
1 Colors of Queen, the Double Strike Epic PL, and Energy Crit PL

WF Sorc
Stats
STR Sure 14
CON Yup (16)
DEX Newp 8?
INT 12 or 14
WIS Nah 6
CHR max (16) + Level Ups

1 Maximize
3 Completionist
6 Empower or Past Life Wiz
9 Empower or Past Life Wiz
12 Quicken
15 Mythril or Addy Body
18 Heighten (May go with Toughness?)
21-30 Have no idea Maybe a Shield Feat or 2?

Skills:

UMD (maxed)
Intimidate (maybe???)
Balance
Spellcraft (Maxed)
Repair (if its not cross class)

My idea is to do DoTs, AoEs and stuff.

I was going to try to take Eldritch Knight and some Acid Sorc.

I can get -40% Spell failure from this tree...

And an Additional 15% from Warforged Tree for a total of 55%

This allows for Addy Body which is 35% Arcane Failure and I could grab a Shield and Turtle up and DoT and AoE Stuff? And OFC Self-heal as a WF Sorc.

This toon has a TON of Concorc Opp and Torc so I am guessing that I will rarely run out of SP.

So as I look at this...should I ignore my DCs and focus more on tanky stuff? Like more CON and start at 14 CHR for more build points?
If I went that route, I could skip WIZ Past life and get a Shield Feat earlier? Though I am granted Shield Prof from an enhancement, so I doubt I can take a shield feat due to pre-req

Anyway, going to give this a shot. At the very worst, I get to level 20 and don't like it and I TR immediately. WF Sorc is an easy button to 20 though, so I think this will go kinda fast.

I totally think there are gaps in this build that I will find as I play it. If you guys see any obvious things, please let me know!

One last thing, I have most named early level shields...and a Fanion and a Death's Door for level 14+ and an Unlocked Light and Darkness at level 18. I have a couple epic Bucklers from my Swashbuckler

Your pal,
Bacab the Local Troll

Sierim
12-18-2016, 06:32 PM
I count 35% spell failure reduction from armor (50% with WF enhancements), 30% from shields (WF enhancements don't improve this). Assuming you took the most efficient AP route with Addy, it would cost you 27 AP for 20 PRR at level 20. Not an ideal trade. Mirthral Body would net you 10 PRR for 4 AP at LV20.

On the topic of ConOp items, I don't think those have stacked in years. I believe they did shortly before (after?) f2p, but not since. ConOp does stack with Torc, however.

SirValentine
12-19-2016, 05:03 AM
21-30 Have no idea Maybe a Shield Feat or 2?
...
My idea is to do DoTs, AoEs and stuff.


Take a look at the Epic Feats (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Feats). Wellspring of Power, Intensify Spell, Ruin, Master of (Element), and more, lots of decent options.

unbongwah
12-19-2016, 10:02 AM
Though I am granted Shield Prof from an enhancement, so I doubt I can take a shield feat due to pre-req
Correct: on a pure sorc, you'd need to take the shield proficiency feat before you could take the Shield Mastery feats (PrE enhancements never count towards feat pre-reqs); which is why I don't consider it worthwhile to take them on pure sorc just for a little extra PRR. You'll gain up to 60 PRR from Adamantine Body (presuming max BAB from Div Power or Tensers) and up to 15 PRR from your shield (Skyvault (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Skyvault_Shield) is still your best choice for zero ASF and up to 3 augment slots). In theory, you can add 90 PRR from gear bonuses, but that requires some suboptimal choices (e.g., Planar Focus set); so 50-60 PRR from gear is probably a more realistic goal. If you still feel squishy in epics, Epic DR + Deific Warding is another +40 PRR (when fully stacked); the downside being you have to give up some caster DPS feats instead.

Pure sorc is considered suboptimal compared to those MCed Bladeforged Shiradi builds out there; but OTOH there's been so much power creep in the last year or so that even a "gimp" pure caster can still be hella OP, IMO. And if you don't have BF, you'll just have to settle for WF, I guess.

Disclaimer: I'm out of the loop when it comes to endgame builds, so I make no promises this is good enough for LE / Reaper content. And Air+Water (with Force tertiary) isn't necessarily the best combo for all quests; so feel free to tweak your PrEs / SLAs while leveling. But it should be good enough for most content.

WF Air Water Savant
Sorcerer 20
True Neutral Warforged


Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 +2 4: CHA
Dexterity 8 +2 8: CHA
Constitution 20 +2 12: CHA
Intelligence 12 +2 16: CHA
Wisdom 6 +2 20: CHA
Charisma 16 +2 24: CHA
28: CHA

Skills
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Concent 2 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 23
Spellcr 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Repair ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 6
Bluff 1 1
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
12 3 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4


Feats

1 : Maximize Spell
3 : Empower Spell
6 : Mithral Body
9 : Quicken Spell
12 : Heighten Spell
15 : Spell Focus: Evocation
18 : Past Life: Wizard OR Completionist
20 Swap : Adamantine Body replaces Mithral Body
21 Epic : Wellspring of Power OR Completionist
24 Epic : Master of: Air OR Burst of Glacial Wrath
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Electricity
27 Epic : Ruin OR Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Hellball OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Arcane Pulse OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Greater Ruin OR Intensify Spell
30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Air OR Plane of Fire


Enhancements (80 AP)

Air Savant (41 AP)


Air Savant, Air Affinity, Greater Air Affinity, Conduction, Light on Your Feet, Elemental Apotheosis

Shocking Grasp III, Spell Critical, Electrocution III
Efficient Maximize III, Spell Critical, Alternating Current III
Spell Critical
Electric Loop III, Spell Critical
Lightning Bolt III, Awaken Elemental Weakness, Evocation Focus, Power of Frost



Water Savant (26 AP)


Water Savant, Water Affinity, Greater Water Affinity, Hypothermia

Cold Ray III, Spell Critical, Hoarfrost III
Spell Critical, Absolute Zero III
Spell Critical, Charisma
Snowball Swarm III, Spell Critical



Eldritch Knight (Sorcerer) (9 AP)


Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Acid

Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness I
Improved Shield III



Warforged (4 AP)


Improved Fortification

Inscribed Armor III



Leveling Guide


Air0 Air Savant; Air1 Shocking Grasp I, II, III
Wtr0 Water Savant; Wtr1 Cold Ray I, II, III
Air1 Electrocution I; Air0 Air Affinity; War0 Improved Fortification; War1 Inscribed Armor I
Air2 Alternating Current I; Air1 Spell Critical; Air1 Electrocution II
Air2 Alternating Current II; Air2 Spell Critical; Air1 Electrocution III
Air0 Greater Air Affinity; War1 Inscribed Armor II, III; Air2 Alternating Current III
Air3 Spell Critical; Air2 Efficient Maximize I
Air4 Electric Loop I, II, III; Wtr1 Hoarfrost I
Wtr0 Water Affinity; Wtr2 Absolute Zero I; Air4 Spell Critical
Wtr1 Hoarfrost II; Wtr2 Absolute Zero II; Wtr1 Hoarfrost III; Wtr0 Greater Water Affinity
Air2 Efficient Maximize II, III
Air0 Conduction; Air5 Lightning Bolt I, II, III
Air5 Awaken Elemental Weakness; Air5 Power of Frost
Air5 Evocation Focus; Wtr1 Spell Critical
Wtr2 Spell Critical; Wtr3 Spell Critical
Wtr3 Charisma; Wtr2 Absolute Zero III; Wtr0 Hypothermia
Wtr4 Snowball Swarm I, II, III; EKs0 Eldritch Strike
Air0 Light on Your Feet; EKs1 Improved Mage Armor I, II, III
EKs1 Toughness I; EKs2 Improved Shield I, II, III
EKs0 Spellsword: Acid; Air0 Elemental Apotheosis; Wtr4 Spell Critical



Destiny (24 AP)

Magister


Unearthly Reactions III, Charisma
School Specialist: Evocation III, Charisma
School Augmentation III
Sigil of Battering III, School Familiarity III
School Master III
Arcane Tempest


Twists of Fate (35 fate points)


Energy Burst: Electricity (Tier 4 Draconic)
Dragon Heritage: Blue (Tier 3 Draconic)
Precise: Evocation (Tier 2 Draconic)
Brace for Impact (Tier 1 Sentinel)
Stay Frosty (Tier 1 Shiradi) OR Endless Faith (Tier 1 Exalted)


Adamantine Body replaces Mithral whenever you can afford enough ASF reduction. I delayed it until lvl 20 (15% augment + 15% WF enhs + 5% EK enhs), but I think you can move it up to lvl 16 if you use 10% augment + 10% EK instead. At lower levels a hvy or tower shield would provide more PRR anyway; again, what you use depends on your ASF reduction.

Bacab
12-20-2016, 04:48 AM
I count 35% spell failure reduction from armor (50% with WF enhancements), 30% from shields (WF enhancements don't improve this). Assuming you took the most efficient AP route with Addy, it would cost you 27 AP for 20 PRR at level 20. Not an ideal trade. Mirthral Body would net you 10 PRR for 4 AP at LV20.

On the topic of ConOp items, I don't think those have stacked in years. I believe they did shortly before (after?) f2p, but not since. ConOp does stack with Torc, however.

2 Things:

*I did not know that Armor and Shield were two separate calculations. Thanks for this heads up.

Seeing that it cost 23 AP for just 10 more PRR...it really makes Addy vs Mythril seem kinda silly.

Thanks for the break down.

*Long time ago, it was accepted that Torc + C/O Accessory + C/O Weapon Stacked

But that was never really proven etc. So I am unsure if the weapon helps if I have the Torc and Accessory on.

100% though, I only have 1 accessory.

Also it was thought that arrow dmg procced C/O or Torc more than melee hits...unsure if this was true.

Bacab
12-20-2016, 04:50 AM
Take a look at the Epic Feats (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Feats). Wellspring of Power, Intensify Spell, Ruin, Master of (Element), and more, lots of decent options.

Yeah, I have spent some time in Epics, usually I kinda figure out what I need as I level.

Example: on a Cleric life, I found myself turtling a lot and just standing near melee...so the Shield Feats really helped a lot. This was when Fall of Truth was the new raid btw.

But yeah the idea of those SLAs and Ruin etc does seem good.

Bacab
12-20-2016, 04:59 AM
@Ungbonwah

So what you are saying, it might be worth it to go Addy body over Mythril due to the BAB affecting PRR. It might be more than a 10PRR difference.

I remember on my last non-armored job, which was Bard, I got my face kicked in on EE if my Freezy Move (warchanter) didn't work, or if Displacement dropped or if the monster had True Seeing.

On my 18CLR/2PLD build, that wore heavy armor and used a Tower Shield and had Tower Prof and Improved Shield Feat...I could stand in a bunch of EE mobs and my Radiant Servant aura could almost keep me up as the Melee picked them off of me 1 by 1. I would just cast heal or burst every so often. This was when Epic Gianthold was new though, so that may explain the time period.

Anyway, after those experiences, I just feel uber squishy without some PRR (in Elite Epics), especially if Crowd Control is lacking.

Thanks for the build too btw.

cru121
12-20-2016, 08:24 AM
I think neither Mithral nor Adamantine body are useful. Both restrict your Dodge.

These days, there are additional sources of PRR/MRR, compared to the previous days - armor is less important.

I'd rather get shield feats (and twist Legendary Shield Mastery) if you want some defense. Or use shields without feats.

unbongwah
12-20-2016, 09:10 AM
Assuming you took the most efficient AP route with Addy, it would cost you 27 AP for 20 PRR at level 20.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Arcane_spell_failure

You're forgetting ML:20 Spell Agility sapphire which is -15% ASF. Then you only need another -20% from enhancements: -15% from WF (4 APs), -5% from EK (6 APs). Another 3 APs gets you +10 PRR from EK Improved Shield. So that's 13 APs (not 27) for a significant improvement in PRR.

Shields are another matter. Outside of Skyvault, I wouldn't bother with other named tower shields: ASF is too high. There are a few large shields with zero or 5% ASF, but all of the epic ones are 15%. Small shields are another option, but then you lose the MRR doubling effect of large / tower shields. EDIT: bucklers provide zero PRR natively, so there's not really any point in considering them for this build.

So what you are saying, it might be worth it to go Addy body over Mythril due to the BAB affecting PRR. It might be more than a 10PRR difference.
http://ddowiki.com/page/PRR

U28 changed the PRR formulas a bit; armor protection isn't as front-loaded as it used to be, unfortunately. And MRR from armor was eliminated completely. :(

Light Armor / Mithral Body: PRR = BAB. Heavy Armor / Adamantine Body: PRR = 2 * BAB. A pure sorc at lvl 30 will have 15 BAB normally, 30 BAB if you run with Divine Power (trivial to UMD scrolls on CHA build) or Tensers (which a sorc can self-cast, ofc, but doubles spell CDs). So by level cap you can have up to +30 PRR from Addy over Mithral.

By comparison, a large or tower shield provides a flat 10 / 15 PRR right away, which is increased by Shield Mastery. Hence my previous comment about how a shield will provide more PRR than armor early on, particularly for a low-BAB class.

I think neither Mithral nor Adamantine body are useful. Both restrict your Dodge.
That's the basic choice you have to make wrt physical defenses in DDO: do you go the heavily-armored route with lots of PRR but low Dodge; or the squishier route with less PRR but high Dodge?

These days, there are additional sources of PRR/MRR, compared to the previous days - armor is less important.
As I said, you can gain up to 90 PRR from gear (though ~60 is more realistic these days, IMO); up to +36 from PDK ITR & Divine EPL feats; and up to 60 from epic / ED feats (Epic DR + Deific Warding + Plane of Earth). If you have all that (plus a little extra from a large shield), then maybe you don't need a body feat as well and can focus on Dodge. But I'm inferring - since the OP hasn't played in a while - they don't have all that gear, PLs, etc. and don't want to feel squishy in epics. So I think Addy Body + Skyvault route makes more sense. OP can always tweak the build once they've built up enough PRR from other sources.

Sierim
12-20-2016, 04:45 PM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Arcane_spell_failure

You're forgetting ML:20 Spell Agility sapphire which is -15% ASF.

That definitely makes a difference, which is why I tried (and failed in terms of clarity) to state that I was limiting my assumptions to Action Points. I only included AP because I didn't remember if the Sapphire ASF reduction was item specific or universal (side note: it's universal). I should have included the Shield SLA in my totals, however (for 30 vs 10).

In addition, if one wanted to use Adamantine Body at LV20 with Tenser's Toggle, the difference would be 50 PRR vs 30 PRR, and the AP cost equivalent. With the spell, it's 13 AP vs 0 for an additional 30 PRR which increases with level to 40 PRR at LV30 (that is, 70 PRR for 13 AP vs 30 PRR with no AP investment).

Bacab
12-23-2016, 05:36 AM
I had much luck with Mythril Body with the intention of Swapping it to Addy body at level 20...but something happened...

I got lost in the Halls of Eberron and ended up accidently TRing into a Human Paladin instead of finding Fred!

OK, that didn't happen...instead, I am close to hitting level 20 and was distracted by how good Paladin looks with the new Enhancement pass. So I will be TRing in a little bit.

WF Acid Sorc with light Dabble into Eldtrich Knight = Easy Button still BTW

@Ungbongwha : I will be necroing some of your older PLD builds (probably)

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread.

I +1'd everyone except Ungbongwah...had to spread it around more...seems that rules is only satisfied by number or +1s not time (I was away almost a year lol).

unbongwah
12-23-2016, 09:04 AM
If you're working towards Completionist, I'm tempted to tell you to HTR in the order in which Turbine buffed the melee classes: i.e., bard -> pally -> barb -> rogue -> rgr -> ftr -> monk. Why? Because each time they buffed a class, they made it a bit more powerful than the class before. [Well, okay, the jury's still out on monk.] So if you haven't played in a long while, you'll be like, "Wow, this class is a lot stronger than I remember!" and get stronger with every life: partly because of stacking power creep, of course, but also because you'll benefit from the way Turbine progressively applied class buffs. :cool:

Bacab
12-29-2016, 10:34 AM
If you're working towards Completionist, I'm tempted to tell you to HTR in the order in which Turbine buffed the melee classes: i.e., bard -> pally -> barb -> rogue -> rgr -> ftr -> monk. Why? Because each time they buffed a class, they made it a bit more powerful than the class before. [Well, okay, the jury's still out on monk.] So if you haven't played in a long while, you'll be like, "Wow, this class is a lot stronger than I remember!" and get stronger with every life: partly because of stacking power creep, of course, but also because you'll benefit from the way Turbine progressively applied class buffs. :cool:

Oh, I got completionist a little while ago. At least heroic completionist.

I am circling back around for other builds. Unsure what is best to me. I kinda like casters and support the most.
I still need 2 more cleric and fvs and sorc lives. 1 more wizard and bard.

My favorite builds so far have been warforged wiz, human bard and both favored soul (wf melee and human caster)
I also supremely enjoyed clock.

Anyway...finished my second pld life as a shield guy. Back to wf sorcerer which is a breeze, though this time I will Etr. I also need more coins for tr hearts lol.