PDA

View Full Version : Augments have fallen behind



Whitering
12-15-2016, 04:42 PM
Augments are now insanely weak compared to crafting, the only augments I now use are the non scaling ones. They could definitely use a buff as they are a cool feature, and while once great, they have become fairly weak.

Saekee
12-15-2016, 05:47 PM
I mentioned this in another thread but will note it again:
Augments were introduced with the Return to Gianthold update to replace the old guild augment system. The ONLY EXISTED IN NAMED ITEMS! (edit: this is not true as they appeared on lootgen too. Made corrections; see Krelar below) Also, many old named items were updated and buffed. This made named items ultra sought-after.
augments were added to lootgen. It was not a big deal since lootgen was crummy and the slots boosted the ML heavily if disjuncted for Cannith Crafting. No big deal--Cannith Crafting was really limited to heroics at the time.

THEN lootgen got buffed, then Cannith Crafting, and now augment slots have no effect on ML for Cannith Crafting.

This powercreep happened in a short space of time. Yes, ability augments are at best off-primary score filler whereas others are still useful (deathblock, fear immunity, fort).

But how much more power creep should we add?

Krelar
12-15-2016, 06:42 PM
I mentioned this in another thread but will note it again:
Augments were introduced with the Return to Gianthold update to replace the old guild augment system. The ONLY EXISTED IN NAMED ITEMS! ?

This is incorrect.

You cna see it in the U17 release notes. (https://www.ddo.com/en/game/release-notes/update-17-official)


Augment slots will be introduced on some new named items, and randomly generated items have a 5% chance of having an augment slot.

EllisDee37
12-15-2016, 08:06 PM
I think he meant they only existed on named items before the pass.

They replaced guild augments in concept, but they replaced epic augments in function. Those were only on named items.

blerkington
12-15-2016, 08:14 PM
The augment system is a good one but it is starting to feel a little abandoned.

These are the changes I'd like to see:

* Bring min levels down for existing augments so they are more in line with newer gear. Not necessarily the same, but closer together.

* Add more utility effects for blue, green and yellow slots, but no effects only found on rare named/raid loot.

* Add a reliable way to obtain +15 skill augments, preferably in-game through crafting or a turn-in mechanism. If not that, then at least make them all available for sale through the DDO Store.

* Add cannith crafting recipes for putting a slot/two slots onto blank items.

I'm not convinced that stat and skill bonuses should be improved to the same amounts available on the latest high end gear.

Thanks.

changelingamuck
12-15-2016, 09:58 PM
The fact that they have a ridiculously low drop rate is worth mentioning also...

I'm sure if the power of augments is increased though, they'll just be far behind in power again about three updates after they're revamped.

Aelonwy
12-16-2016, 07:24 AM
On one of the past revamp augments threads someone posted the idea that all augments should function like the ruby eye augments (and how our updated cannith crafting works) such that there isn't a diamond of strength +1/2/3 etc but that the diamond of strength should scale to the minimum level of the item its placed on. At first glance its a great idea - the trouble is they monetized augments already and they're going to be reluctant to alter items people already bought. Not to mention standardizing the TP cost of augments (probably upward) and any turn-in mechanisms for in-game augments would have to be revamped. A lot of work. On the plus side, if they did this and people's lower level augments suddenly became as good as high level augments I imagine there would be a rush to purchase a surplus of the low level augments on the store.

Another idea I quite like but it needs some adjustment for skills at least was to scale augments every 3 levels instead of every 4, which would mean the high end gets slightly higher but not OP in comparison to stats on the loot itself but in addition the rate at which the stats on augments increases would be swifter improving their usefulness at most/all levels. Thus making most augments not look like rubbish. However if the power creep continues this would indeed become only a stop gap measure.

EllisDee37
12-16-2016, 07:30 AM
On one of the past revamp augments threads someone posted the idea that all augments should function like the ruby eye augments (and how our updated cannith crafting works) such that there isn't a diamond of strength +1/2/3 etc but that the diamond of strength should scale to the minimum level of the item its placed on. At first glance its a great idea - the trouble is they monetized augments already and they're going to be reluctant to alter items people already bought.Not an issue for skills, at least, since the vast majority of skill augment are not available for purchase in the store. In fact, there is almost no way to acquire skill augments outside of blind luck.

Wh070aa
12-16-2016, 07:31 AM
IMO augments are for slotting in must haves (death block, heavy fort, feather fall), and the occasional damage bypass or effect on weapons. Like meteoric/eye of..., or spell power for healing or whatever.

We really need deadly augments tho.

Saekee
12-16-2016, 07:40 AM
This is incorrect.

You cna see it in the U17 release notes. (https://www.ddo.com/en/game/release-notes/update-17-official)
That is in the release notes. I recall clearly, however, when that update came out, that augments were not in the random loot. That must have appeared within U17 shortly after its release, or in a patch.

JOTMON
12-16-2016, 08:49 AM
Augments are now insanely weak compared to crafting, the only augments I now use are the non scaling ones. They could definitely use a buff as they are a cool feature, and while once great, they have become fairly weak.

They didn't fall behind, most of the stat/skills ones were sucky for the levels they represented.
from my experience they really only became useful in Epic and on capped toons with max augments, almost every lower level augment got tossed since they were inferior for the level range.


Personally I think they should have been set to auto scale based on character level.
Then you wouldn't need all these different augments sitting around and it would be more like the current Cannith crafting.
The augments then wouldn't waste as much storage space and would remain useful across the levelling range.

Enoach
12-16-2016, 09:56 AM
Changes that I see could possibly help the Augment System...

1. Change the ML to match the ML for crafting - This way the bonus is not less or greater then what can be achieved in crafting.

or

2. Have the Augments Bonus for scaling Match the ML of the item it is placed in. Augments of Strength no longer need +1 through +8. The Augment would instead calculate its bonus based on the ML of the item it is slotted in using the current crafting system as the base.

Krelar
12-16-2016, 10:24 AM
That is in the release notes. I recall clearly, however, when that update came out, that augments were not in the random loot. That must have appeared within U17 shortly after its release, or in a patch.

Unless they patched it withing 24 hours you're remembering a lamannia release or something. There are posts from the day after the release (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/408906-What-are-they-worth?highlight=augment)of people finding random loot with augments.

Drekisen
12-16-2016, 10:37 AM
I have to disagree with this somewhat.

CC is already very powerful and augments allow you to have multiple more effects that you normally would not have room for. To make them on level with CC scaling would be an easy button and create an even larger power gap.

I would say if anything make CC a little less of a grind including chances to get a collectible when you dissolve items.

I see augments as more of a tweaking item not a must have.

Saekee
12-16-2016, 02:41 PM
Unless they patched it withing 24 hours you're remembering a lamannia release or something. There are posts from the day after the release (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/408906-What-are-they-worth?highlight=augment)of people finding random loot with augments.

that proves I am wrong! My memory is not serving me well then. Thx for correction.

Wh070aa
12-16-2016, 03:19 PM
You are probably thinking of old epic crafting. It was weary similar to augment crafting.

lostintheswamp
12-20-2016, 03:43 PM
But how much more power creep should we add?

There's a difference between "power creep" and "functionally useless"

A +6 Stat augment is ML20. Who is that useful for?

The system needs a very serious overhaul.

Chimmy
12-24-2016, 05:46 PM
For a long while I thought they weren't worth the bother, but after collecting them slowly and trading in gianthold and the auctionhouse I have come to really value them and understand entirely why they are substantially less strong, because it is great to find items with a maxed enhancement and one or two slots for custom HALF buffs, while having a lot of modification options to play around with.

Not to mention some of the augments are fantastic (the special rubies, immunities, exceptional bonuses, luck etc) while others might seem average in comparison for their level, but they are still useful, you just don't use them as your strong enhancements for your level, you use the more specialised gear you find for that.

What sucks is jeweler's toolkits are no longer producible in any way and as such their prices and the AH are just laughably OTT.

Also as someone mentioned their drop rates are atrocious for what they are now, at least the "lesser" ones are silly rare to find, I can understand the special ones being really rare, but most should be common enough.

sirgog
12-25-2016, 05:18 AM
They got abandoned after the augments and jeweller's kits were widely duplicated.

Chimmy
12-25-2016, 08:15 AM
They got abandoned after the augments and jeweller's kits were widely duplicated.

I never personally ever attempted or ever bothered looking up duping methods, maybe I was stupid not to but I always play with the intent of not exploiting unintended systems in fear of consequences directly related to playing a game I enjoy, and if I don't enjoy a game, I just don't play it.

Aside from my position though I can understand that duping is a serious problem in many games, my first argument would be to fix the method and removed duped items but as that never seems to have been done, sometimes it feels a bit more like they punished the people who didn't take the opportunity to dupe and exploit.

As far as I was aware anyway it was the dupe vulnerable card system that was responsible for most of that, are you saying that augments can be duped by some different method, or did you also mean through cards?

katz
12-25-2016, 11:32 AM
iirc from what i was told pretty much anything that fit a certain criteria could be duped. cards fit that criteria. so did augments.

Drekisen
12-25-2016, 04:46 PM
There's a difference between "power creep" and "functionally useless"

A +6 Stat augment is ML20. Who is that useful for?

The system needs a very serious overhaul.

+6 at level 20 for a stat that is not a "requirement" for a class...say WIS for a fighter.....is +3 to will saves and does not take up a regular item slot.....same with DEX...+3 to reflex.

On a build that doesn't really need STR it keeps you from being burdened.