PDA

View Full Version : alternate experience potions



Vizar
12-07-2016, 07:16 AM
Having for the first time used a Sovereign XP pot which I bought using real money.
I now finally (after 5 years+ of playing) slightly understand a reason for zerging quests and that the least amount of time you can spend in a quest actually has some level of "importance".

I am a habitual flower sniffer, quest optional parts completer, box breaker, like to chat with my fellow party members, etc. However I have made myself a goal to become a heroic completionist, I expect it will take me a year or possibly even 2 at my normal rate of XP gathering.

I'd like to do it a bit quicker, hence the use of XP pots.

But to make efficient use of the XP pots, I have to turn into some kind of a zerger, which isn't really my play style, or I am basically effectively throwing money away.

So my thought was can we have an XP pot based on something that is not "time" bound.

Perhaps "for the following X quests entered, you gain +% XP in the quest".
Now I can see this being a bit interesting to code into the game.
What happens if you quaff half way through quest, what happens if you recall and re-enter, or log off mid quest, that type of thing.

OR perhaps "for the characters current class level you gain +% XP", as in you quaff a potion at level 2, and you gain a bonus to XP until you reach the min XP required to move to level 3 (or perhaps if you are feeling more generous until you actually move to level 3). This may be easier to code than per quest.

Sincerely, Vizar.

Qhualor
12-07-2016, 08:56 AM
I wouldn't call myself a flower sniffer, but I am one that tries to one and done and maximize xp in every quest, regardless of the xp/min. I also have 20% xp pots constantly running, unless I win something better from DD or something like that. Combining my build and quest knowledge I typically complete quests fairly quickly. Depending on the quest, how many breakables, mobs, mechanics in the quest, etc I complete usually between 15-30 min. To me i feel like i zerg, but in a group i would be considered too slow. If you are talking about reading NPC dialogue and checking out scenery or whatever, than yeah, might be better to get the free 10% xp pots or whatever they are from the challenges.

Rawrargh
12-07-2016, 09:01 AM
I like the concept and I've seen it used in other games. Usually you get more out of the time-based boost, but if you play casually or slowly, then the "10 quest completion pot" could be a nice addition.

Enoach
12-07-2016, 09:41 AM
I have often felt that the timer on XP pots is part of the reason that drove groups to "watch the clock" in a quest. I've been in many groups where the quest is completed and exited by party members even if they would have waited they would have gotten more XP (traps, one more breakable, quick optional).

While I can complete quests at breakneck speeds I have never enjoyed that pace.

I like the XP per Quest bonus idea. Not sure if there can be a consensus on the equal time vs # of Quests that can be done.

Krelar
12-07-2016, 09:52 AM
So my thought was can we have an XP pot based on something that is not "time" bound.

Perhaps "for the following X quests entered, you gain +% XP in the quest".
Now I can see this being a bit interesting to code into the game.
What happens if you quaff half way through quest, what happens if you recall and re-enter, or log off mid quest, that type of thing.


This essentially already exists, it's called a lesser/greater tome of learning (http://ddowiki.com/page/DDOstore/Stat_and_Leveling#XP_Tomes). (Comes in both heroic and epic versions) The best part is it's permanent so the question of what happens if you use it half way through a dungeon is moot.

psykopeta
12-08-2016, 05:27 AM
+1 here, i likeeverything that adds options/variety of playstyle
However it won't take long to ppl cone whining about how unfair it is counting wgu and house of blades as 1 quedt each

Imho that pot would benefit saga runners while the current xp pot benefits specially daily farmers

What about a saga xp pot? One time in first diff for every quest of certain saga, gets an extra xp, doesn't affect end saga token (which shoulnd't be affected by xp pots imho, time diesn't run and they increase xp)

lostintheswamp
12-09-2016, 05:55 PM
I think some kind of solution is a good idea. The potions as is just encourage everyone to zerge, and that results in unhealthy/toxic gameplay environment.

What if the potions works something like "for every x XP points earned, get y bonus XP"?

So, say, for example, every 5 XP earned grants you +1 bonus XPs, or 20 for every 100. Equivalent to a 20% XP pot.

The bonus could then apply to the next z amount of XP you earn. So a pottion might look something like "Earn +1 bonus XP for every 5 points for the next 100,000 XP you earn".

You still have to "Get" the XP, but now the focus stops being XP per min and starts being total XP earned. This would strongly incentivize players to go after bonus options, side quests, opts, etc.

This would also help the devs encourage higher difficulties, as higher diff = more XP. Right now a lot of people actually DON'T play the hardest difficulties, because several speed runs on Hard or Normal are worth more XP than 1 run on Elite.

Vizar
12-12-2016, 06:16 AM
I wouldn't call myself a flower sniffer, but I am one that tries to one and done and maximize xp in every quest, regardless of the xp/min. I also have 20% xp pots constantly running, unless I win something better from DD or something like that. Combining my build and quest knowledge I typically complete quests fairly quickly. Depending on the quest, how many breakables, mobs, mechanics in the quest, etc I complete usually between 15-30 min. To me i feel like i zerg, but in a group i would be considered too slow. If you are talking about reading NPC dialogue and checking out scenery or whatever, than yeah, might be better to get the free 10% xp pots or whatever they are from the challenges.

Totally agree, new quests first time through - I usually listen to and read everything, but afterwards I get to pressing the return key and choosing the topmost answer to the questions :)
My style of play sounds very similar to yours, I enjoy getting the max XP possible from a quest, how quickly the quest is completed is a secondary concern, but still a fairly important one.
Rather than running past everything to complete the quest as quickly as possible. Admittedly zerging in a group can be a little exciting, but it doesn't come close to the fun you have in a group who use voice chat and work their way through quests more methodically.

I also have an elite streak running, and currently am managing to keep it going, over 300 quests now, lol. I do occasionally wonder whether to bin the streak and play lower difficulty to get more "interesting" groups.

So my alternate XP potion was for our style of play. For max XP in whatever time it takes, rather than speed playing.

Had great fun playing a quest I haven't done in ages last night, Keepers sanctuary in Delera's, lotsa traps, secret doors, stuff to find, took me best part of an hour. No sensible player running an XP potion would consider doing that. They would probably have run 3 to 5 quests in that time, lol.

Enoach - I do agree, how many quests you get to do for how much TP would take some working out. To be honest I think the other two suggestions in this thread are better ones and easier to manage. Though I do still like the "idea".

Krelar, I sort of agree with you, I have a lesser tome on all my characters and a greater tome on several. But I do think an alternative XP potion that can be used that doesn't also encourage fast play would be of benefit to the game.

Psykopeta I hope you don't mind me saying I like your idea, but I think it is too specific just to affect sagas, but if the Dev's think it is easy to implement then why not.
(and thank you for +1 don't think I've ever had one of those before).

lostintheswap, love your idea, and I think better than my original ideas. Also sounds fairly straightforward to implement coding wise with a bit of luck.
The only interesting bit of coding is what happens if you are at 99,000 of your allowed 100,000 XP and you gain 10,000 XP, do you get the bonus for all or only for 1,000 of that 10,000. Would probably have to be the 1,000. :)

Taking a wild stab in the dark at TP costs.
If an averagely fast zerg style of play player can average 1K XP per minute, so 60K XP in an hour, and a potion lasts 3 or 6 hours, then an equivalent in max XP style of play would be for 180K or 360K XP. With this type of comparison, TP costs would be directly comparable to existing potions.

Does anyone know if this group is watched by admin?
As in how suggestions get back to the Devs.

Thanks for your feedback on my suggestion.

dunklezhan
12-12-2016, 06:39 AM
It hadn't even *occurred* to me that XP potions might be driving zerging - I only use the ones I get from daily rolls from time to time, and I just save them for level *ranges* where I simply don't like most of the content on offer so always struggle to get over the hump (namely 11-13). I use them basically to avoid having to run quests I don't like (i.e. necro).If that's what people are really doing though, then the bonus-per-quest potion is only a good idea in *theory* - because it just lead to people insisting they 'have' to run quest X because its better XP overall and they don't want to 'waste' their XP bonus on a low value quest. And that's already a fairly big problem.

lostintheswamp
12-12-2016, 02:34 PM
It hadn't even *occurred* to me that XP potions might be driving zerging

What did you think was driving zerging?

Ok, so DDO's generalized "XP reward comes on completion" model certainly contributes, but potions took a general problem and turned into an epidemic.

Granted, zerging isn't really "bad" but anything that creates a rift between players(EG zergers v non zergers) needs to be addressed.

Vizar
12-13-2016, 06:52 AM
What did you think was driving zerging?

Ok, so DDO's generalized "XP reward comes on completion" model certainly contributes, but potions took a general problem and turned into an epidemic.

Granted, zerging isn't really "bad" but anything that creates a rift between players(EG zergers v non zergers) needs to be addressed.


It only occurred to me when I had a sovereign potion running and I was in the Threnal quest where you sit and wait for mobs to turn up for 15 minutes or so. That in all likelihood, having XP pots that are time based would suggest that the minimum time you spend in a quest means that you are getting the most out of your XP pot. And zerging is essentially spending the minimum of time in a quest to get the max XP per minute.

Saekee
12-13-2016, 08:56 AM
another solution would be to buff optional xp, increase devious bonus, add some hidden bonuses, dungeon explorer xp (like in wildernesses), etc.

lostintheswamp
12-13-2016, 01:03 PM
It only occurred to me when I had a sovereign potion running and I was in the Threnal quest where you sit and wait for mobs to turn up for 15 minutes or so. That in all likelihood, having XP pots that are time based would suggest that the minimum time you spend in a quest means that you are getting the most out of your XP pot. And zerging is essentially spending the minimum of time in a quest to get the max XP per minute.

One thing I think is important is the social aspect of the game. The threnal quest you mention is neat because you DO have to just sit there, so its time to sit and talk, socialize. Most players skip it, though, because its wasting pots and XP-per-min.

Gamers will play however you encourage them to play. The current meta rewards zerging, but that's not really what the devs want. Unfortunately they are at a loss as how to encourage the type of gameplay they want.

This is actually a good way to do that.

Gregen
12-13-2016, 01:19 PM
I would like to see something like this. The zerg playstyle in pugs has been plaguing this game for a long time, in my opinion.

dunklezhan
12-13-2016, 01:34 PM
What did you think was driving zerging?

Ok, so DDO's generalized "XP reward comes on completion" model certainly contributes, but potions took a general problem and turned into an epidemic.

Granted, zerging isn't really "bad" but anything that creates a rift between players(EG zergers v non zergers) needs to be addressed.

Silly me - I thought it was because people who zerged simply enjoyed that playstyle.

lostintheswamp
12-13-2016, 02:24 PM
Silly me - I thought it was because people who zerged simply enjoyed that playstyle.

Some of them certainly do, and it is fun.

But if you ask the majority of players, it has more to do with getting the most out of XP potions and XP-per-minute vs "this is actually a fun playstyle". Or they'll tell you that "getting the most out of my potion IS fun".