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ZeeDatRogue
11-14-2016, 05:20 AM
One of the things I was surprised to learn is that guilds are temporary, not a permanent acquisition; even if you pay shards for it.

As someone who solely owns their own Kraken (yes, I have virtually all the toys bar Grand Reliquary II+ and the Shrine of XP II+), I have to admit, I do find that somewhat disconcerting. The guild it is attached to contains all my mules and a couple of semi-active toons.

When I spoke to a CSR a while ago on the subject (because someone I knew who was f2p had lost their guild due to being away, and never got it back - but they had paid plat for it..). The CSR I spoke to said, “it was something that accounting would have to take up”. It isn’t unknown for me to spend time in hospital for long periods of time due to a pulmonary lung issue, with no internet access. But, as a precautionary measure, I have taken a snapshot of my guild (with mules); all the accorded amenities I have installed, etc. So I could prove it at a later date if necessary.

But my question is, is “Why not make it a permanent selection if you are a one man guild if you have paid shards?” And 4,000 shards is a lot. And it’s not really asking for something ludicrous and outlandish. Lowest price is 1,000 shards, maximum is 4,000.

Now, some people might say “well that is unfair really to people who have multiple people in it” – well not really because people log in at various times and keep the guild active. If there is only 1 person in it... you can kinda do the math.

Edit: The guild deletes after sixty days of no activity (in case people were wondering)

cdbd3rd
11-14-2016, 05:34 AM
...

Edit: The guild deletes after sixty days of no activity (in case people were wondering)

News to me and my seldom-visited country alt cousins.

I have alts that I get around to logging in with maybe once or twice a year. Never had a guild disappear.

JOTMON
11-14-2016, 08:34 AM
One of the things I was surprised to learn is that guilds are temporary, not a permanent acquisition; even if you pay shards for it.

As someone who solely owns their own Kraken (yes, I have virtually all the toys bar Grand Reliquary II+ and the Shrine of XP II+), I have to admit, I do find that somewhat disconcerting. The guild it is attached to contains all my mules and a couple of semi-active toons.

When I spoke to a CSR a while ago on the subject (because someone I knew who was f2p had lost their guild due to being away, and never got it back - but they had paid plat for it..). The CSR I spoke to said, “it was something that accounting would have to take up”. It isn’t unknown for me to spend time in hospital for long periods of time due to a pulmonary lung issue, with no internet access. But, as a precautionary measure, I have taken a snapshot of my guild (with mules); all the accorded amenities I have installed, etc. So I could prove it at a later date if necessary.

But my question is, is “Why not make it a permanent selection if you are a one man guild if you have paid shards?” And 4,000 shards is a lot. And it’s not really asking for something ludicrous and outlandish. Lowest price is 1,000 shards, maximum is 4,000.

Now, some people might say “well that is unfair really to people who have multiple people in it” – well not really because people log in at various times and keep the guild active. If there is only 1 person in it... you can kinda do the math.

Edit: The guild deletes after sixty days of no activity (in case people were wondering)


I think you have some misinformation here..

The guild does not expire after 60 days, I have several packmule guilds that have no activity for 6 months or more and are still there.
I would be really ****ed if I bought something and it disappeared after 60 days of no activity.. especially since a 60 day expiry is not documented anywhere.

...Now you could be usurped by other players..
After 60 days your guild could be usurped by officers, so you could lose your guild to other players if you are afk for long enough..
http://ddowiki.com/page/Guild
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If the Leader has been inactive for 60 days...
The designated Successor can become Guild Leader.
If there is no (active) Successor, any Officer can become Guild Leader (as above).
If the previously inactive Leader or designated Successor returns at a later time, there is no recourse except normal social interaction (aka "asking nicely").

If there is neither any (active) Leader, Officers or designated Successor (so only "Members" are active), then there is no way for a Member to become Leader*, and so no way to add new members, promote officers, buy/change amenities, or otherwise "run" the Guild, so the Guild is likely doomed. Any responsible Leader should make sure they designate an (active!) Successor and/or Officer(s), for the sake of all members in their Guild, just in case of the unexpected - life happens.
(* And, no, the Game Admin will not do so, not even if you "ask nicely", sorry.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Even though you spent the money to buy the guild and used your originality to name the guild you can still be screwed out of your guild by other players and the Devs designed it this way intentionally..
Eventually it boils down to trust..
~If you trust a player you are guilded with you can reassign leadership while you are away and give yourself 2nd in command if they leave for whatever reason...
~keep leadership and name a 2nd in command to control the ship, they could usurp you but no one else can..
Without a 2nd in command any one of your officers (first one to do it) while you are away could usurp your guild regardless of how much you or they put into it..


If you don't trust any of your guildies .. make them all members... They wont be able to invite anyone or take over your guild.
may eventually be the death of the guild since they wont be able to invite alts or other players, but it is pretty much the only option you have to protect the guild from being mutinied.

FranOhmsford
11-14-2016, 08:37 AM
edit: The guild deletes after sixty days of no activity (in case people were wondering)

no!

It doesn't!

ZeeDatRogue
11-14-2016, 06:06 PM
sigh, you are missing the point entirely.

If the overall ACCOUNT is inactive. Your posts is stating about "oh i have several toons that i don't log on" etc - yes, but you are still active on that account. So the account is obviously active.

If you aren't able to access, then the account goes inactive - does it not? People can go into hospital; be deployed; jail; Computer theft; you name it - and if they can't access their account overall, then why be penalized and lose their ship, of which shards was paid for.

This is why F2P accounts are quickly erased if they haven't achieved Premium status at least. So if we have Premium status for accounts, then why not the guild ships.

Oh incidentally, the CSR I spoke to was Rothgar.

Cleanincubus
11-14-2016, 08:40 PM
sigh, you are missing the point entirely.

If the overall ACCOUNT is inactive. Your posts is stating about "oh i have several toons that i don't log on" etc - yes, but you are still active on that account. So the account is obviously active.

If you aren't able to access, then the account goes inactive - does it not? People can go into hospital; be deployed; jail; Computer theft; you name it - and if they can't access their account overall, then why be penalized and lose their ship, of which shards was paid for.

This is why F2P accounts are quickly erased if they haven't achieved Premium status at least. So if we have Premium status for accounts, then why not the guild ships.

Oh incidentally, the CSR I spoke to was Rothgar.

You are grossly misinformed. None of what you're saying is accurate. Accounts do not disappear, F2P, Premium, or VIP. Guild Airships do not disappear on their own, regardless of how long everyone in the guild hasn't logged on. I'm not sure where you got this information, but it was clearly from someone who was also misinformed. Or perhaps it was a simply misunderstanding of what was being asked, or a misunderstanding of what the answer was.

When I was F2P, I took at least 6-8 months off from the game. Came back, and I still had everything, especially my characters and items. When I was premium, I took a little over a year off (right before MotU). I came back to find that the only other member of the guild I was in, had been absent for almost as long as me (9-10 months). The guild was still there, the airship was still there. Absolutely nothing was lost.

ZeeDatRogue
11-14-2016, 11:24 PM
You are grossly misinformed. None of what you're saying is accurate. Accounts do not disappear, F2P, Premium, or VIP. Guild Airships do not disappear on their own, regardless of how long everyone in the guild hasn't logged on. I'm not sure where you got this information, but it was clearly from someone who was also misinformed. Or perhaps it was a simply misunderstanding of what was being asked, or a misunderstanding of what the answer was.

When I was F2P, I took at least 6-8 months off from the game. Came back, and I still had everything, especially my characters and items. When I was premium, I took a little over a year off (right before MotU). I came back to find that the only other member of the guild I was in, had been absent for almost as long as me (9-10 months). The guild was still there, the airship was still there. Absolutely nothing was lost.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/TempleofHorus/1_zpstr9sqky1.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/TempleofHorus/2_zpsm8nhrg60.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/TempleofHorus/3_zpsombxkghi.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/TempleofHorus/4_zpsanzrnxl1.jpg

My PC crashed shortly after while taking the snapshot as it were. But the CSR was saying that the guild/ship would disappear if there was no activity on the account after sixty days. It had happened to someone else that I knew, which is why I had posed the question to the CSR in the first place.

As for accounts being fine while Premium, I'm aware of that already (sighs), I'm on about what the CSR told me ref the guild airship etc. I was forced to take a 4 year break from DDO, but was Premium by then and my overall account was fine. But only had an airship this year.

JOTMON
11-15-2016, 07:37 AM
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/TempleofHorus/1_zpstr9sqky1.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/TempleofHorus/2_zpsm8nhrg60.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/TempleofHorus/3_zpsombxkghi.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/TempleofHorus/4_zpsanzrnxl1.jpg

My PC crashed shortly after while taking the snapshot as it were. But the CSR was saying that the guild/ship would disappear if there was no activity on the account after sixty days. It had happened to someone else that I knew, which is why I had posed the question to the CSR in the first place.

As for accounts being fine while Premium, I'm aware of that already (sighs), I'm on about what the CSR told me ref the guild airship etc. I was forced to take a 4 year break from DDO, but was Premium by then and my overall account was fine. But only had an airship this year.

Interesting.
but I don't believe the conversation reflects your post. It appears you are talking about being usurped

which is not the same as


The guild deletes after sixty days of no activity (in case people were wondering)


It also runs contrary to
https://www.ddo.com/en/airship-purchase-and-amenity-guide
"New airship amenities never expire, and can be placed and re-placed without ever needing to purchase them again. "
Why would guild ships expire if amenities never do..

ZeeDatRogue
11-15-2016, 09:26 AM
This is why I was looking for something clarifying that either the feature exists at the moment if the overall account is inactive (ie guild expiration thus airship deletion) OR to have something put in place where it exists IF you have used shards to purchase an airship.

I can understand it not being in place for plat (because plat is an ingame item farmed from within), but for shards? Shards being needed to purchase a lot of the amenities..

So i had a poke around on the Internet after reading your (Jotmon's) replies. I came across this, and took a snapshot for uploading. Someone else had an issue as well

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/TempleofHorus/7_zpsdri1f0y4.jpg
(Source: https://plus.google.com/102956946685516405004/posts/8edq1wxMrxy)

What we can derive from that post is that if you are a sole owner of a guild, then your guild will disband after sixty days of overall account inactivity; thus the airship attached to it is deleted!.

I don't think what I have requested is too unreasonable a feature to have implemented - and I would be interested to see a moderator/dev response on the issue. That if you have paid shards for an airship, the guild it is attached to becomes permanent just like everything else we purchase in game; thus ensuring it's continuity and non-deletion - irrespective if you are inactive sixty days, six months, a year or five years..

FranOhmsford
11-15-2016, 10:15 AM
This is why I was looking for something clarifying that either the feature exists at the moment if the overall account is inactive (ie guild expiration thus airship deletion) OR to have something put in place where it exists IF you have used shards to purchase an airship.

I can understand it not being in place for plat (because plat is an ingame item farmed from within), but for shards? Shards being needed to purchase a lot of the amenities..

So i had a poke around on the Internet after reading your (Jotmon's) replies. I came across this, and took a snapshot for uploading. Someone else had an issue as well


What we can derive from that post is that if you are a sole owner of a guild, then your guild will disband after sixty days of overall account inactivity; thus the airship attached to it is deleted!.

I don't think what I have requested is too unreasonable a feature to have implemented - and I would be interested to see a moderator/dev response on the issue. That if you have paid shards for an airship, the guild it is attached to becomes permanent just like everything else we purchase in game; thus ensuring it's continuity and non-deletion - irrespective if you are inactive sixty days, six months, a year or five years..



NO NO NO!

What that says is that the guild will "NEED" to disband and reform NOT THAT IT WILL DO THIS ON ITS OWN!


And The GM in the screenshots of in-game chat is likely humouring you with that "should remain active" remark!



Guilds do NOT disband on their own!
If someone else is in guild and was an officer they can Usurp you the leader after you've been inactive for at least one month {actually I'm pretty certain it's 5 weeks} and then they will be able to disband the guild if they so wish but the Game will not do this itself! A PLAYER HAS TO DO IT!

Cordovan
11-15-2016, 10:56 AM
sigh, you are missing the point entirely.

If the overall ACCOUNT is inactive. Your posts is stating about "oh i have several toons that i don't log on" etc - yes, but you are still active on that account. So the account is obviously active.

If you aren't able to access, then the account goes inactive - does it not? People can go into hospital; be deployed; jail; Computer theft; you name it - and if they can't access their account overall, then why be penalized and lose their ship, of which shards was paid for.

This is why F2P accounts are quickly erased if they haven't achieved Premium status at least. So if we have Premium status for accounts, then why not the guild ships.

Oh incidentally, the CSR I spoke to was Rothgar.

This is simply not accurate. I don't believe our Customer Service rep was commenting on a guild expiring after 60 days, but was probably talking about a situation in which a guild leader becomes inactive, and a designated-by-system officer takes over the guild after a certain amount of inactivity on the part of the guild leader. I'll reach out to the CS person in question and make sure, but given this rep's veteran status and level of game knowledge, I am sure that is what is being described.

Just to make sure everyone understands: Guilds do not expire, nor do guild airships. If you are in a one-person guild, you'll never run into an issue where you log in to find your guild gone. If you are a guild leader and designate successors or officers in the guild, after a certain period of inactivity officers can take over leadership. This was done by request of the community to prevent a now-old situation where guild leaders would go inactive and the guilds would be forced to disband. If a guild leader finds that they are no longer leader after an extended absence, they will want to work with their fellow guildies to re-gain leadership.

We do have someone spamming our social networks claiming inaccurate information about guild leadership, so I don't know if this thread is related to that. In that particular case, it seems like after a guild leader was inactive for a certain period of time, the guild was taken over by an officer, then some kind of personality dispute happened which has the former-leader very upset, and the current guild leadership unwilling to reinstate the former leader. That ultimately is a social issue for the guild, and not something we are going to weigh in on nor take action on.

ALSO: Free to Play accounts are not erased.

Cleanincubus
11-15-2016, 11:03 AM
NO NO NO!

What that says is that the guild will "NEED" to disband and reform NOT THAT IT WILL DO THIS ON ITS OWN!

And The GM in the screenshots of in-game chat is likely humouring you with that "should remain active" remark!

Guilds do NOT disband on their own!
If someone else is in guild and was an officer they can Usurp you the leader after you've been inactive for at least one month {actually I'm pretty certain it's 5 weeks} and then they will be able to disband the guild if they so wish but the Game will not do this itself! A PLAYER HAS TO DO IT!

Agreed.


I'm not seeing anything in either screenshot that suggests a F2P character or guild airship will disappear if left unactive for 6+ months. Everything is pointing to the guild leader being absent, someone else usurping it, kicking out the original leader, the leader coming back to find out they were booted, and then contacting Customer Support in an attempt to regain control of the guild. A full length screencap would have been a lot better. If anything else, simply to show the original question.

Gauthaag
11-15-2016, 12:32 PM
nicely illustrating, why people with real ingame isues cant get response from GM

ZeeDatRogue
11-15-2016, 01:49 PM
This is simply not accurate. I don't believe our Customer Service rep was commenting on a guild expiring after 60 days, but was probably talking about a situation in which a guild leader becomes inactive, and a designated-by-system officer takes over the guild after a certain amount of inactivity on the part of the guild leader. I'll reach out to the CS person in question and make sure, but given this rep's veteran status and level of game knowledge, I am sure that is what is being described.

Just to make sure everyone understands: Guilds do not expire, nor do guild airships. If you are in a one-person guild, you'll never run into an issue where you log in to find your guild gone. If you are a guild leader and designate successors or officers in the guild, after a certain period of inactivity officers can take over leadership. This was done by request of the community to prevent a now-old situation where guild leaders would go inactive and the guilds would be forced to disband. If a guild leader finds that they are no longer leader after an extended absence, they will want to work with their fellow guildies to re-gain leadership.

We do have someone spamming our social networks claiming inaccurate information about guild leadership, so I don't know if this thread is related to that. In that particular case, it seems like after a guild leader was inactive for a certain period of time, the guild was taken over by an officer, then some kind of personality dispute happened which has the former-leader very upset, and the current guild leadership unwilling to reinstate the former leader. That ultimately is a social issue for the guild, and not something we are going to weigh in on nor take action on.

ALSO: Free to Play accounts are not erased.

Awesome, thank you (that's all I wanted to hear). The CSR in question was aware that I was a sole owner of a guild (and as someone has said about seeing the full length chat (1) as I told you the PC crashed before I could get the full breadth; and (2) I had people chattering to me as well which was also coming through, and due to the content of it at the time - someone was telling me of their r/l depression which I am not going to air on a public forum. So be appreciative that I managed to save what I could).

The CSR in question had given me the suggestion of someone joining the guild and keeping them at member status, but it's a muleship (predominantly), but I wasn't after that. Because if I had to go inactive for a long period due to my illness, I wasn't after it being taken from under me - and my mules and stores are on it.

Also please be aware, I'm not slating any of the CSR's - it was just what I was concerned about. Cordovan, for accuracy (ref records) if Rothgar can't remember - I put the question in on the 24th August 2016. Just checked the snapshot of the full chat for the date.

Feel free to lock the thread, delete it - whichever - thank you for answering my question.

(breathes sigh of relief)

Tentaki
11-15-2016, 03:30 PM
I can confirm that I am the sole member of a one-person guild who has had extended absences over 60 days, and everything is always exactly the way I left it when I come back.

ZeeDatRogue
11-15-2016, 05:29 PM
so I don't know if this thread is related to that..

And, no it isn't to do with that. I just acquired the snapshot of the information from the post to illustrate the 60 day marker. I'm always polite, courteous, friendly, and I chat to the CSR's when I have a query.. those posts on the social media looks like a massive tirade and an attack.

(Please, allow me some credit... )

Gauthaag
11-15-2016, 07:11 PM
If a guild leader finds that they are no longer leader after an extended absence, they will want to work with their fellow guildies to re-gain leadership.



Its quite funny to say this. There s no way anyone can regain leadership unless the new leader wants to pass it back. Only way is to wait if the new leader will be absent for long enough time and then usurp guild. But in bad scenario, the new leader demotes all officers and boots whoever he wants, without anyone being able to do anything. Thats what exactly happened to my former guild. So saying u have to work with your guildies to regain leadership is plain nonsense, unless u of course mean they could together leave the guild and form new one ...and pay new costs - oh thats clever cashgrab

And in time where one can spend quite non insignificant amount of cash on his guild and amenities this situation, where no defensive mechanism of any kind exist, is just sad.

Fedora1
11-15-2016, 08:05 PM
Awesome, thank you (that's all I wanted to hear).

That's what everyone was telling you for the entire thread. You clearly misunderstood what the CSR was telling you.

Fedora1
11-15-2016, 08:13 PM
Its quite funny to say this. There s no way anyone can regain leadership unless the new leader wants to pass it back.

If you had a good relationship with your successor or officers, this is likely not a problem. If you didn't like/trust them, why were they made officers in the first place?


And in time where one can spend quite non insignificant amount of cash on his guild and amenities this situation, where no defensive mechanism of any kind exist, is just sad.

The defense mechanism is to:

a) Do not allow any officers in your guild, make them all members only.
b) Ensure you appoint only friends and/or trustworthy people to officer and/or successor.

It's your $$, you need to be responsible for it. That's just the way it is. If someone you thought you could trust turns out to be a jerk, it is sad and unfortunate, but you can't blame the store that you sold you a bicycle if you abandoned it on the side of the road for 6 months and someone else came and took it.

ZeeDatRogue
11-15-2016, 10:16 PM
That's what everyone was telling you for the entire thread. You clearly misunderstood what the CSR was telling you.

Since I was the one in communication with the CSR at the time, and since I remember the full conversation and you was not present sat next to me, I would appreciate it if, you kept your comment to yourself of telling me what I did and did not understand. With attitude like that, I am really not interested.

I was going by what the CSR told me at the time which was a 60 day inactive period.

Now I appreciate what the others said (who responded), but am pleased Cordovan responded on the matter as that has set my mind at ease. But when there are conflicting reports between a CSR and players, you can appreciate the confusion.

Anyhow as I said, thumbs up to the guys for responding - appreciate the response (except for Fedora the troll). Cordovan, thanks also for the response.

Fedora1
11-16-2016, 04:28 PM
Since I was the one in communication with the CSR at the time, and since I remember the full conversation and you was not present sat next to me, I would appreciate it if, you kept your comment to yourself of telling me what I did and did not understand. With attitude like that, I am really not interested.

I was going by what the CSR told me at the time which was a 60 day inactive period.

Now I appreciate what the others said (who responded), but am pleased Cordovan responded on the matter as that has set my mind at ease. But when there are conflicting reports between a CSR and players, you can appreciate the confusion.

Anyhow as I said, thumbs up to the guys for responding - appreciate the response (except for Fedora the troll). Cordovan, thanks also for the response.

Well cdbd3rd, JOTMON, FranOhmsford, and Cleanincubus all told you (and some quoted from the Wiki EXACTLY how guilds work) that you misunderstood the CSR. The post you shared from the CSR showed all of us that you misunderstood him (and you covered that up by claiming your PC crashed - how convenient). You kept telling them all that they were missing the point. So yeah - I'm a troll for pointing out that everyone else had already told you what Cordovan said. lol

Uska
11-17-2016, 07:37 AM
If guild deactivate after 60 days or whatever then that's new because I went back to one a few months ago that I hadn't in over a year and it was still there so was the ship I was the only member though and not an officer so it was basically a dead guild