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View Full Version : PDK staff Kensai idea -> Does Purple Dragon Aura stack with everything?



Selvera
08-08-2016, 05:42 PM
So... I'm considering my options for getting a purple dragon knight past life, and I've really wanted to try out a staff-fighter type build for some time, so I was thinking of how I could do this at the same time, would it be gimp? Here's the idea:

Purpose, to make a light-armoured dodge focused PDK that wields quarterstaffs

Starting Stats (tomes): Str 15 (+2), Dex 18 (+3), Con 14 (+4), Int 12 (+2), Wis 10 (+2), Cha 8 (+2) (All levels in Dex)

Fighter 8: Gets a lot of feats for weapon specialization and doge and stuff like that
(Kensai 35) Taking all T5's, along with all weapon specialization enhancements, Strike with no thought and the dodge/dodge cap enhancements.
(Stalwart 6) Taking the defensive stance

Rogue 6: Gets trapping skills and evasion 2% dodge and sneak attack
(Thief Acrobat 33) Taking Quick Strike and Sweeping strike, staff training x4, acrobatics and shadow dodge

Monk 6: Gets adapt of forms, 6% dodge, 10% movespeed

(PDK enhancements 6) Damage boost, heal amp, dex, Purple dragon Aura

Feats (1 PDK, 6 base, 4 fighter, 3 monk): Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Two handed fighting, Improved two handed fighting (need 17 str via tomes), greater two handed fighting, Improved Critical, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus bludgeoning, Weapon Specialization Bludgeoning, Greater Weapon focus (need level 8 fighter), Combat Expertise (need 13 int via tomes)

Some of my questions:
- Does Purple Dragon Aura stack with all other bonuses to saves? It's just a blanket +2 all saves to all allies? That sounds pretty good for 1 AP!
- Can you use a defensive stance (Combat expertise) at the same time as an offensive stance (power attack) at the same time as a class stance (stalwart defense)? Or does this cause problems with one of them?
- I read somewhere that spring attack gave melee power, but it doesn't appear to via the wiki, does it?
- Will I find that my HP is just too low to survive in epics with only 14 base con? Will I find that the dodge this build grants + allows makes up for this?
- I read somewhere that if you TR with an iconic to a level 1 non-iconic, you get both the iconic pastlife and the class pastlife, is this true?

Krelar
08-08-2016, 06:21 PM
- Does Purple Dragon Aura stack with all other bonuses to saves? It's just a blanket +2 all saves to all allies? That sounds pretty good for 1 AP!


As far as I can tell it stacks with everything. But its not 1 AP for +2 to all saves. It has 3 ranks each ranks gives +2 to a different save. (I think it goes fort, will, reflex) plus it requires purple dragon focus, which isn't that impressive in my opinion, to be at the same rank so it would be 6 AP for +2 to all saves.



- Can you use a defensive stance (Combat expertise) at the same time as an offensive stance (power attack) at the same time as a class stance (stalwart defense)? Or does this cause problems with one of them?


You can use defender stance with either of those but combat expertise and power attack cannot be used at the same time.



- I read somewhere that if you TR with an iconic to a level 1 non-iconic, you get both the iconic pastlife and the class pastlife, is this true?

When you ITR (iconic TR) an iconic you get both regardless of what you choose for your next life. The trade off is Iconics have to level all the way to 30 instead of 20.

Selvera
08-09-2016, 10:28 AM
Thanks for the clarification, purple dragon aura sounds much less attractive like that, maybe I should only get it on a PDK I build for auras/team-play. For this build I should probably drop the PDK dex and the aura in favor of thief acrobat's glancing blow effects.

If combat expertise can't be used at the same time as power attack, then I'd probably choose power attack, instead of combat expertise I should find another feat, maybe power critical. The alternative is letting power attack be a "dead feat" or dropping the cleaves... which might not be the worst idea since I'm pretty sure cleave doesn't benefit from all the Qstaff's doublestrike and attackspeed. However combat expertise does allow the PRR enhancement in legendary dreadnought where I hear PRR is difficult to get on monks, especially if they don't use earth stance. Furthermore, the build already has 4 active attacks, not including cleaves nor epic destinies, which is often enough to mean I don't have all that much downtime auto attacking. The question is what could I do with 3 more feats?

Hobgoblin
08-09-2016, 10:32 AM
selvera, look at precision

and what does monk bring to you? consider ranger - for more sneak damage (its a toss up between monk and ranger for this imo) ranger would be get you more prr and you dont have to be in robes

Selvera
08-09-2016, 11:31 AM
yep, I know about precision; it's pretty good but my chance to hit is already very high, fortification reduction is good but I think the math says it's very near in power to power attack even at late game (+10 damage vs 25% fortification bypass). Perhaps I'm wrong with that. Combat expertise would be 10% AC and 20 PRR. They all look like good choices, but I can only use one.

Monk (6 levels): 3 feats, 6% dodge, 10% move speed, +2 AC, +wisdom to AC, +2 saves verses enchantments, Slowfall, immune to natural disease,
and a choice of (+2 wisdom, +2 dodge, +3 all saves -2 strength) or (+2 con, +10% AC, +8 PRR, -2 Dex, -10% movespeed) or (+2 Dex, +10% attackspeed, +5% doublestrike, -2 con).
I'm unsure of if I'm able to use ki attacks and monk's self healings while using ki weapons instead of hand-wraps. I would have to wear robes.

Ranger (6 levels): 2 favored enemies, Diehard, 2 level 1 spells with 50 mana.

Without investing AP into any of the trees, Monk seems to be clearly better for this build, with the exception that I would have to wear robes and not light armour (= lose 25 PRR). Perhaps I would find that I can min/max some AP better with ranger in the build, but every AP I remove from Kensai or Theif Acrobat is a trade off so I would have to carefully consider if I can min/max enough AP into better enhancements then the bonuses I get from monk give. I seem to remember rangers have some PRR enhancements for light armour, which would be cool, I should give this more thought.

Hobgoblin
08-09-2016, 01:12 PM
yep, I know about precision; it's pretty good but my chance to hit is already very high, fortification reduction is good but I think the math says it's very near in power to power attack even at late game (+10 damage vs 25% fortification bypass). Perhaps I'm wrong with that. Combat expertise would be 10% AC and 20 PRR. They all look like good choices, but I can only use one.

Monk (6 levels): 3 feats, 6% dodge, 10% move speed, +2 AC, +wisdom to AC, +2 saves verses enchantments, Slowfall, immune to natural disease,
and a choice of (+2 wisdom, +2 dodge, +3 all saves -2 strength) or (+2 con, +10% AC, +8 PRR, -2 Dex, -10% movespeed) or (+2 Dex, +10% attackspeed, +5% doublestrike, -2 con).
I'm unsure of if I'm able to use ki attacks and monk's self healings while using ki weapons instead of hand-wraps. I would have to wear robes.

Ranger (6 levels): 2 favored enemies, Diehard, 2 level 1 spells with 50 mana.

Without investing AP into any of the trees, Monk seems to be clearly better for this build, with the exception that I would have to wear robes and not light armour (= lose 25 PRR). Perhaps I would find that I can min/max some AP better with ranger in the build, but every AP I remove from Kensai or Theif Acrobat is a trade off so I would have to carefully consider if I can min/max enough AP into better enhancements then the bonuses I get from monk give. I seem to remember rangers have some PRR enhancements for light armour, which would be cool, I should give this more thought.

ya the ranger prr enhancments all give hp as well. you get +3 fav enemy damage and saves, +3 sneak attack damage so its good on that. also, not a big deal, but it gives you the first 2 levels of twf, so you can switch between them pretty easy.

its a hard choice - monk gives you more defense in terms of not getting hit, but ranger gives you more in terms of surving a hit when you do get hit so kind of a wash

and you can use attacks with a staff

Gljosh
08-09-2016, 01:13 PM
One other point is that the bonuses from Monk Henshin (Q-staff tree) stack with Rogue Acrobat.

I ran a Ranger/Monk/Rogue (8/7/5) and it helped quite a bit to toss a few points into Henshin.

Selvera
08-09-2016, 03:23 PM
Good point. I was trying to shy away from henshin since I hear that it's rather lackluster, since the core abilities don't appear to do anything useful (for a Qstaff build) and that there's (hopefully) a monk pass coming soon, so for all I know by the time I'm ready to TR into this life, it might be different. However it does look like it has some cool stuff in it:

Elemental words appears to be a 10% amp for elemental damage for 30 seconds of the type; this might be a great group buff against portals in legendary shroud if you know what they're going to use, or it could be good in combination with an LGS weapon of the element type you amp.

Staff training looks like it's no better or worse then thief acrobat enhancements of the same type.

Animal forms looks like it has some good passive buffs if I were to do level 9 monk (which also gives me access to 15% move-speed and improved evasion, but means I would miss out on a lot of good thief acrobat stuff...), with only level 6 monk, they're very "OK" passives; 10 HP and 2 concentration for 2 AP sounds like it might be the best.

Fists of Iron sounds like an fine active attack with a short cooldown.

Lighting the candle sounds like it could be good (does it scale with spell-power? melee power?), but it's rather deep in the tree and 2 AP per tier.

But... I would have to give up a lot on thief acrobat to get these.

Enderoc
08-09-2016, 09:29 PM
whirlwind is greater than power attack though you can have both if you rethink your build, but here is a tip... You can assign secondary buttons to attack, choose a left hand friendly key for an attack button alternative. This allows you to move the cursor and click on your toggles or switch stances with minimal interference. I would use E for attack, and R to cycle through targets. Just make sure you keep the mouse attack button active too simply for familiarity.

With all the monk clickies it makes it a lot easier to get your finishers without missing your chance to attack or fumbling your hot keys.

Another Hotkey I use is space bar for target self, and jump on my scroll wheel . You can actually keep jump on both so when you play a caster and want to cast on yourself in combat, as soon as you target yourself you jump to negotiate casting delay being midair. Now if I wanted to jump and target an enemy I would use the scroll wheel which is single function jump.

* since my post has gone into a derailment to the original topic anyway, the multiple use keys should be reconsidered each life. For example on a sword and board you might use E as both to block and attack simplifying the process of doing both and having the mouse open to do whatever else. Endless possibilities... Almost.

the_one_dwarfforged
08-09-2016, 10:49 PM
iirc pdk aura is a competence bonus and any like bonuses wont stack with fighter defensive stance (also competence).

Gljosh
08-09-2016, 11:58 PM
Good point. I was trying to shy away from henshin since I hear that it's rather lackluster, since the core abilities don't appear to do anything useful (for a Qstaff build) and that there's (hopefully) a monk pass coming soon, so for all I know by the time I'm ready to TR into this life, it might be different. However it does look like it has some cool stuff in it:

Elemental words appears to be a 10% amp for elemental damage for 30 seconds of the type; this might be a great group buff against portals in legendary shroud if you know what they're going to use, or it could be good in combination with an LGS weapon of the element type you amp.

Staff training looks like it's no better or worse then thief acrobat enhancements of the same type.

Animal forms looks like it has some good passive buffs if I were to do level 9 monk (which also gives me access to 15% move-speed and improved evasion, but means I would miss out on a lot of good thief acrobat stuff...), with only level 6 monk, they're very "OK" passives; 10 HP and 2 concentration for 2 AP sounds like it might be the best.

Fists of Iron sounds like an fine active attack with a short cooldown.

Lighting the candle sounds like it could be good (does it scale with spell-power? melee power?), but it's rather deep in the tree and 2 AP per tier.

But... I would have to give up a lot on thief acrobat to get these.

Technically the Monk Staff Training is worse than the Acrobat. The only benefit is that is stacks, but if you are AP starved. I have been playing on doing a PDK Ftr/Mnk/Rog 8/7/5 going pretty full q-staff with the SD stance. I have quite a few nice q-staffs.

Selvera
08-10-2016, 03:18 AM
Looking further into the build, having to take fighter at first level really hurts it in 2 ways; losing all the skill points from not taking rogue as the first level and by requiring a bonus feat at such a low level that I haven't built up pre-reqs for better feats. However, I'm not willing to blow a +1 heart of wood on it, so this is what I've got (in terms of feats).

Level 1: Weapon Focus (Bludgeoning), Two handed fighting, Toughness
Level 2: Dodge (monk bonus feat)
Level 3: Mobility (monk bonus feat), Toughness (is there anything else worth getting with nearly no prereqs?)
Level 6: Power Critical, Spring Attack (Fighter bonus feat)
Level 8: Weapon Specialization (Bludgeoning) (Fighter bonus feat)
Level 9: Improved Two handed fighting (Now I have the +2 from tomes, allowing this)
Level 12: Improved Critical (bludgeoning)
Level 13: Greater Two handed fighting (Fighter bonus feat)
Level 14: Combat Expertise (Monk bonus feat) (I need to take all the monk levels this early so that I can get the grandmaster feats later)
Level 15: Master of Forms
Level 17: Greater Weapon Focus (Bludgeoning) (Fighter bonus feat)
Level 18: Grandmaster of Forms

Basically what I'm not entirely happy with in this setup is taking toughness... twice. However, it does allow for some pretty cool feats later on in levels, and I am a little worried about not having that much HP with this build, 66 extra HP could be nice? Would it just be better to just take cleave? Or just go for +4 melee power?
Or... sneak of shadows.

For skill points, I'm able to dump my last 3 levels as rogue, which I hope will give me enough skill points to level all the required trapping skills to max, and hopefully have some left over to max out concentration and UMD, however I'll have to math out the skill points later to make sure this will work.

Edit: Modified leveling order so that I meet the prereqs for all the feats, so much to keep track of ><

Krelar
08-10-2016, 10:31 AM
At level 3 I would take mobility as your regular feat and deflect arrows as your monk bonus feat. It's not a fantastic feat but it's more useful than a second toughness.

Selvera
08-10-2016, 10:51 AM
Oh nice, Deflect arrows doesn't get wasted on dodged or missed arrows, so it's even more useful in a build like this then in a more typical HP/PRR/MRR build. It's still not great, but for now I think I'll be taking Deflect arrows and Sneak of Shadows (+1 all skills is pretty decent when I'm worried about how well I'll trap without being an int build, concentration, UMD, jump bonuses and the active are nice icing) instead of the 2 toughnesses.

Enderoc
08-11-2016, 09:26 PM
Okay how many of you went "I wish" when I said you could set a Hotkey for more than one function? I think it's time for third party applications for DDO. Scripts like Razor for Ultima Online. It would take the game to a new level in streamlining game play.