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View Full Version : Legendary Past Lives and more, 2017 expansion



Phil7
08-06-2016, 08:27 AM
Turbine annouced a new expansion near the end of 2017!
I would like to give my suggestions for their new expansion, based on a system of their own creation.

This system has kept many players from leaving the game and even as we speak it is still the most popular preoccupation of the majority of players and is even being refered to as ''End Game''. That is, past lives and character development.
And by that I don't mean new shiny greatswords, new colorfoul back-wings and exclusive tiny mini-pets that roam around the city and contribute to the lag masses.

Even though these may be the perks that one can obtain in a game such as GW2 for example, it has a steady numerous population because of various other factors. Stunning graphics, PvP system, teamwork-oriented Raids, significantly more advertising and of course a modern game engine that allows for easier game development.

Now well, we don't have all of these in DDO, but to be honest, I've never played another game with this constant character progress. Now I'm sure many will say "oh more Power Creep, less bank space, more grinding no thx" and so on, but I don't see power creep as something negative. The game evolves and so do the players. And more bank space=more money for Turbine to hopefuly release more content.

Anyway enough with the chatter.
So far we've had class-based past lives, race-based PLs and epic PLs
Turbine stated that the level cap will not exceed 30, but I think it was not a smart decision to say that. They should always be able to go back on their words, it's their game after all.

So my suggestion is to create 5 new levels, from 31 to 35 and simply name them Legendary Levels.
I believe by now most of you already got the idea...
New Legendary Past Lives with new Legendary Hearts of Wood.

So far so good, but how does that work?
Simply reach level 35 and perform a Legendary Reincarnation to get back to level 30!

The development team had the brilliant idea of handing us new Legendary Feats at level 30, the Scions. So why not use them for our new Past Lives? You just give out a triple-stacking past life for each Scion (Earth past life, Arborea past life, Limbo past life and so on).
That is 13 Scions x3 = 39 total past lives!

And why not top it off with a new Legendary Completionist award!
Something balanced, just like the other 2 completionist rewards. Maybe an extra Scion Feat at level 30, who knows!

But wait, how exactly are we going to get these Legendary Hearts of Wood?
Well have a look in your Green Bags. We have 3 new Runes that drop from the Legendary Raids and some of the flagging quests. So from now on, if all the new quests in the Legendary Levels drop these runes, we can turn them into X item for Y number of runes to get our Heart of Wood.

And what do we got from levels 31 to 35?
Apart from the new upcoming quests, the new items, the opportunity to fully use our level 26+ feats and gear (Ruin, Greater Ruin etc.) we also get new Feats as we level up.
Perhaps at levels 31, 33 and 35. Maybe even a unique Mythic Feat at level 35!
That is for the developers to decide.

And as the level cap increases, so does something else...
New Ability Tomes!
+8 at level 31 and +9 at level 35
(releasing the +9 maybe a year after the +8 of course, for maximum profit!)


I am out of ideas for now, but I'm glad to finally get this out of my head.
I hope it may inspire the Dev Team to make this game even more awesome!

Vulkoorex
08-06-2016, 12:38 PM
Yay more grinding.

So will an Iconic need to go to L35 before reincarnation? Not looking forward to that all.

Garix
08-06-2016, 12:45 PM
Have I missed a further announcement?

Last I heard there was a possibility of an expansion in 2017.

Has that been upgraded to a definite expansion? Or just the usual forum shenanigans that results in "Turbine lied to us" posts in the future?

HastyPudding
08-06-2016, 12:49 PM
The devs explicitly stated that we're not going to go above level 30 for quite some time, if ever.

I would love to see class levels carry over into epics, though, with more AP to spend (capstones and tier 5's still exclusive, of course), more caster levels, and more BAB. Probably never happen, though.

Vish
08-06-2016, 01:11 PM
The devs explicitly stated that we're not going to go above level 30 for quite some time, if ever.

I would love to see class levels carry over into epics, though, with more AP to spend (capstones and tier 5's still exclusive, of course), more caster levels, and more BAB. Probably never happen, though.

The raise needs to be from 25 to 30. And maybe increase to 100 ap.
But otherwise, the level cap should be 33.
That's from a numbers perspective.

Mglaxix
08-06-2016, 01:23 PM
The devs explicitly stated that we're not going to go above level 30 for quite some time, if ever.

I would love to see class levels carry over into epics, though, with more AP to spend (capstones and tier 5's still exclusive, of course), more caster levels, and more BAB. Probably never happen, though.


The raise needs to be from 25 to 30. And maybe increase to 100 ap.
But otherwise, the level cap should be 33.
That's from a numbers perspective.

What do you think Epic Destiny's are they are your Epic Action Points you get to spend and respend as needed based on class and current needs.
You can earn up to 34 free Epic Destiny Fate points to spend any way you like.

Level increase you can keep that with content as-is more quests would be better to me than more levels and past lives to grind out..... Give us better content I would rather have Quality over Quantity any day.

Gljosh
08-10-2016, 03:17 PM
I don't think that adding more character power will do this game any good. People (top 5%) can do very well in LE.

According to the wiki there are 189 quests from levels 1 to 10, 147 for 11 to 20, 98 for 21 to 30, and 8 for 31 and 32.

The game is not setup to provide quests to fill any added character levels. I did not like the must hit level 30 push we had earlier this year. Keeping players levels at 28 but adding the level 30+ content would have made a nice "endgame".

I could see the "expansion" filling in some of the quests per level gaps, adding a Xoriat Saga with a Raid (tie together Delirium/Reign/Harbinger/Heart-make some of those quest Epic heck maybe even Legendary!). Maybe a Xoriat cosmetic style OR wicked idea a Xoriat Ritual (similar to Eldritch Rituals but wacky/zany).

Or maybe a legendary Cannith Raid that allows you to add augment slots to items OR make trinkets into augments.

Selvera
08-10-2016, 03:59 PM
I’m all for the game staying with a cap of level 30. Both in terms of gameplay and lore.

Gameplay: Adding more levels means a few things I’m not fond of:
- Powercreep. Characters gaining more levels means that they get higher stats, higher skills, MP/RP/SP from epic levels (or whatever they replace it with), more feats, and more HP from con. Powercreep is difficult to get right, and easy to get wrong. If nothing else, class passes (and race passes?) should be done before going on such a large step of powercreep.
- More levels to grind through. Something I like about DDO is that it doesn’t take a year of grinding to reach the cap. Adding grinding is not a good thing.
- Raising the level cap after having such a variable-power min-maxable level cap like what we have now, means that going from level 30 to 31 will result in a huge power “jump”. As an example, right now “level 30” items can be of a power level (on the random loot table) of anywhere between level 30 and level 40, all with ML 30. If we allowed players to get to level 31 and added a new item that was ML 31, it either has to be weaker than some ML 30 items, or it will be as powerful as a “random loot level 40” item. If it’s weaker, then it’s a bad item and won’t be used. If it’s stronger/equal power and quests are balanced in power level to expect people using such items, then level 31+ quests generally assume players have +5 all stats (to say the least) from what they expected for level 30 characters.

Lore (? Is this lore?): In 2e the cap was level 20, and then raised to 30 in the “Dungeon Master Option: High level campaigns”. In 3e, the cap was 20, increased to 30 with the “epic level handbook”. In 3.5e the cap was 30 (although 20 was encouraged as a cap for characters). In 4e, the cap was level 30, with levels 21-30 considered “epic”. In 5e the level cap is 20, although it is still young and I expect the level cap to be raised to 30 with some extra materials again. In D&D, the level cap doesn’t go beyond 30. Given this lore, it makes perfect sense that in DDO the cap is effectively 20, increased to 30 through the expansions.

However that doesn't mean the Devs should just sit around and not do anything... Besides the passes to help balance the game and fix bugs (which are and would be great), there is relatively little content for level 20+ (especially 30+). They have lots of room for expansion, they could easily add another 50 level 20+ quests and it wouldn’t feel like they’re overpopulating it, especially if many of those are legendary level quests. As for “end game” -> Some of those level 30+ quests can be raids, hard raids that challenge the power builds of today to adapt, get new gear or try new builds (or maybe old builds that have been ‘obsoleted’ can shine in these raids!) ToEE is an example of a pack not exactly catered towards first-life characters, but rather to challenge players with some gear and past lives under their belt. While it could be a little more obvious that some quests are harder than “level 7” might make them sound (rework what quests are considered “extreme challenge” to those that truly deserve it). There can be some packs geared towards multi life characters. Also… Reaper mode. I don’t know exactly what the devs plan for this, but it sounds like “end game content” to me. I consider “end game” to be the game, played by your completionist with twink gear. Now you've gotten all those past lives and that perfect set of gear (for your level), what content that was too hard for you before (at least at a reasonable speed) can you now do?

Saekee
08-10-2016, 04:59 PM
thoughtful post OP
I am against level increases & power creep. But I think they could reward character progression with cosmetics. Especially rare achievements so they would be bragging rights, eg FAQ maxed out all the slayers

Uska
08-11-2016, 06:03 AM
No wings and nothing that adds powercreep I am all for exclusive cosmetics though

slarden
08-11-2016, 10:10 AM
Great post and great ideas.

I would like to see something account-wide instead of character-specific for xp or quest/raid completions at cap. Basically you would get it for any character on the server at cap and the xp would accumulate. There would be ridiculous requirements for the top tiers, but it would be cool rewards that don't add power.

For example maybe a +1 stacking loot bonus so the real grinders can get more nice things to sell. Cosmetics is great and so is public area movement speed.

I love the TR system I just think its puts too much emphasis on a single character instead of encouraging alts.

Enderoc
08-11-2016, 01:01 PM
Being legendary I think should entail venturing into extremely dangerous other planes of existence and there should be a Legendary tree that opens up when you choose your Legendary feat if we are talking breaking the 3Oth level limit barrier... Treating your chosen Scionic sphere as a class in itself.

TimtheGreat89
08-12-2016, 03:57 AM
Turbine annouced a new expansion near the end of 2017!
I would like to give my suggestions for their new expansion, based on a system of their own creation.

This system has kept many players from leaving the game and even as we speak it is still the most popular preoccupation of the majority of players and is even being refered to as ''End Game''. That is, past lives and character development.
And by that I don't mean new shiny greatswords, new colorfoul back-wings and exclusive tiny mini-pets that roam around the city and contribute to the lag masses.

Even though these may be the perks that one can obtain in a game such as GW2 for example, it has a steady numerous population because of various other factors. Stunning graphics, PvP system, teamwork-oriented Raids, significantly more advertising and of course a modern game engine that allows for easier game development.

Now well, we don't have all of these in DDO, but to be honest, I've never played another game with this constant character progress. Now I'm sure many will say "oh more Power Creep, less bank space, more grinding no thx" and so on, but I don't see power creep as something negative. The game evolves and so do the players. And more bank space=more money for Turbine to hopefuly release more content.

Anyway enough with the chatter.
So far we've had class-based past lives, race-based PLs and epic PLs
Turbine stated that the level cap will not exceed 30, but I think it was not a smart decision to say that. They should always be able to go back on their words, it's their game after all.

So my suggestion is to create 5 new levels, from 31 to 35 and simply name them Legendary Levels.
I believe by now most of you already got the idea...
New Legendary Past Lives with new Legendary Hearts of Wood.

So far so good, but how does that work?
Simply reach level 35 and perform a Legendary Reincarnation to get back to level 30!

The development team had the brilliant idea of handing us new Legendary Feats at level 30, the Scions. So why not use them for our new Past Lives? You just give out a triple-stacking past life for each Scion (Earth past life, Arborea past life, Limbo past life and so on).
That is 13 Scions x3 = 39 total past lives!

And why not top it off with a new Legendary Completionist award!
Something balanced, just like the other 2 completionist rewards. Maybe an extra Scion Feat at level 30, who knows!

But wait, how exactly are we going to get these Legendary Hearts of Wood?
Well have a look in your Green Bags. We have 3 new Runes that drop from the Legendary Raids and some of the flagging quests. So from now on, if all the new quests in the Legendary Levels drop these runes, we can turn them into X item for Y number of runes to get our Heart of Wood.

And what do we got from levels 31 to 35?
Apart from the new upcoming quests, the new items, the opportunity to fully use our level 26+ feats and gear (Ruin, Greater Ruin etc.) we also get new Feats as we level up.
Perhaps at levels 31, 33 and 35. Maybe even a unique Mythic Feat at level 35!
That is for the developers to decide.

And as the level cap increases, so does something else...
New Ability Tomes!
+8 at level 31 and +9 at level 35
(releasing the +9 maybe a year after the +8 of course, for maximum profit!)


I am out of ideas for now, but I'm glad to finally get this out of my head.
I hope it may inspire the Dev Team to make this game even more awesome!

That's one huge mouth full of ideas, I look forward to it should the Dev Team consider it.

RobbinB
08-12-2016, 05:49 PM
So my suggestion is to create 5 new levels, from 31 to 35 and simply name them Legendary Levels.
I believe by now most of you already got the idea...
New Legendary Past Lives with new Legendary Hearts of Wood.

So far so good, but how does that work?
Simply reach level 35 and perform a Legendary Reincarnation to get back to level 30!


So far NOT so good! No, no, no! Just no.

I don't need to even read through the rest of your post or any of the replies. Let me just stop you right at the quoted part. If there is one thing I would vehemently oppose, one thing I would tell the devs to never ever ever do again, its the hamster wheel reincarnation thing. Its simply awful. Going back in levels repeatedly so you have to keep a huge array of weapons and equipment for all the different level ranges you play is just yuck. Reaching the endgame and then having to choose between playing there but "hey, all this xp goes to waste" versus "I'm back putting my xp to use but now I'm not at endgame power" is terrible.

NEVER AGAIN WITH THE HAMSTER WHEEL!

This game needs some use for xp earned at level cap and it could introduce legendary levels but here's how it should be done:

Introduce one and only one new legendary level per year which has quite a high amount of xp needed eg. 10 million for lvl 31. This new level gives the player a new feat or perhaps some other significant shiny (eg expanded destiny tier...)

Critical point - once level 30 (ie legendary) a character has access to use all items they find regardless of ML, so no "I find this awesome weapon but I can't use it till lvl 31 or 33 or whatever" and a level 30 character can go in all legendary or "next-gen-level" content.

After maxing out the xp to cap, additional xp should be put towards bonus tiers. These bonus tiers should need high and ever increasing xp amounts, eg. 10 million for tier 1, 12 million for tier 2, etc....The rewards of the bonus tiers should be incredibly minor compared to traditional levels, some perhaps only cosmetic or convenience (eg. storage).

So let's thnk 4 years into the future and compare this system for someone who has been away from game for 4 years vs someone who has power-played that whole time. The level cap would just be getting shifted from 33 to 34. All xp earned by the player coming back into the game would go towards the legendary levels until they reach level 34, so they wouldn't be too far behind the power player in terms of how long it would take them to catch up to cap. The power play would have some very small extra benefits they gained from the bonus tiers and a huge gear head-start over that player, but nothing as shizmatic as we currently see for the triple heroic/epic completionist vs the casual player.