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HastyPudding
06-26-2016, 11:31 AM
So, like my tiefling thread, I decided to give a go at the aasimar. Like tieflings, I didn't give them a stat penalty, but instead a level adjustment, like drow (tieflings and aasimar have level adjustments in PnP, too). Model and animations should be very easy: just take the human model, make it slightly taller with pretty faces, and give them bright white, gold, and light blue skin and hair options. It would be nice to have

Racial Bonuses:
+2 wisdom, +2 charisma (Aasimar have a 'level adjustment', like drow, and start with a 28 point build instead of 32.)
+2 racial bonus to spot, listen, heal, and diplomacy
+4 racial bonus to saves against poison and disease
Feat: Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


CORE 1 : Purity
+10% healing amplification
+3 positive energy spellpower

CORE 2 : Ability Score
+1 wisdom or +1 charisma

CORE 3 : Purity
+10% healing amplification
+3 positive energy spellpower

CORE 4 : Ability Score
+1 wisdom or +1 charisma

CORE 5 : Purity
+10% healing amplification
+3 positive energy spellpower


TIER 1
Celestial Disposition (Ranks: 1, AP cost: 2)
Multiselector:
Vengeance: +2 fortitude saves, +2 intimidate.
Benevolence: +2 will saves, +2 heal.

Skill Bonus (Ranks: 3, AP cost: 1)
Multiselector:
Awareness: +1 / +2 / +3 spot and listen.
Helpfulness: +1 / +2 / +3 diplomacy and heal.

Spell-Like Ability: Lesser Restoration (Ranks: 1, AP cost: 2)
Cures all the following conditions: 1d4 points of ability damage, eliminates fatigue or exhaustion suffered by the ally and dispels most magical effects reducing an ally's ability scores. (Activation Cost: 5 spell points, Cooldown: 3 seconds)

Sacred Blood (Ranks: 3, AP cost: 1)
(Requires the Turn Undead feat: acquired at level 1 cleric or level 4 paladin)
+1 / +2 / +3 turn undead uses. At rank 3 you count as 2 levels higher when using turn undead.

Sanctified Weapons (Ranks: 1, AP cost: 2)
+1 attack and damage with longswords, greatswords, morningstars, light maces, heavy maces, light hammers, and warhammers.


TIER 2
Divine Resistance (Ranks: 3, AP cost: 1)
+1 / +2 / +3 fortitude, reflex, and will saves.

Divine Protection (Ranks: 3, AP cost: 1) (Requires Divine Resistance, tier 2)
+2 / +4 / +6 physical resistance rating.

Vitality (Ranks: 3, AP cost: 1)
+2 / +4 / +6 saves against poison and disease.

Celestial Criticals (Ranks: 3, AP cost: 2)
+1% / +2% / +3% critical chance for positive energy and light spells.

Sanctified Weapons (Ranks: 1, AP cost: 2) (Requires Sanctified Weapons, tier 1)
+1 attack and damage with longswords, greatswords, morningstars, light maces, heavy maces, light hammers, and warhammers.


TIER 3
Divine Influence (Ranks: 1, AP cost: 2)
Multiselector:
Fortitude: You no longer automatically fail a fortitude save on a roll of 1.
Willpower: You no longer automatically fail a will save on a roll of 1.

Sacred Weapons (Ranks: 3, AP cost: 1)
Toggle: Your weapons and unarmed attacks gain on-hit: 1d4 / 1d6 / 1d8 light damage.

Celestial Health (Ranks: 3, AP cost: 2)
+1% / +2% / +3% maximum health and +5% / +10% / +15% healing amplification.

Sanctified Weapons (Ranks: 1, AP cost: 2) (Requires Sanctified Weapons, tier 2)
+1 attack and damage with longswords, greatswords, morningstars, light maces, heavy maces, light hammers, and warhammers.


TIER 4
Celestial Wings (Ranks: 1, AP cost: 2)
You can spring forth on angelic wings as per the leap of faith ability. (Cooldown: 1 minute)

Celestial Favor (Ranks: 1, AP cost: 2) (Requires Celestial Health, tier 3)
You are now immune to energy drain.

Sanctified Weapons (Ranks: 1, AP cost: 2) (Requires Sanctified Weapons, tier 3)
+2 attack and damage with longswords, greatswords, morningstars, light maces, heavy maces, light hammers, and warhammers.
+1 critical multiplier on vorpal strikes with these weapons.

PsychoBlonde
06-26-2016, 08:39 PM
I'd rather have aasimar be an iconic-only race than have a drow-style "level adjustment", personally.

Uska
06-26-2016, 08:41 PM
I'd rather have aasimar be an iconic-only race than have a drow-style "level adjustment", personally.

If we have to have them at all I would rather go with your idea

cru121
06-27-2016, 02:22 AM
interesting

- core spell power could easily be bumped to +5
- sanctified weapons: why exactly these weapon types?
- celestial criticals: bit expensive, go down to 1 AP or give higher benefit
- celestial health: I don't see Aasimar as a high-HP race
- t4 sanctified weapons: i'd probably go with some more light effects, perhaps Radiance (blinds on crit?)

One could also work more with the Lesser Resto SLA. perhaps the higher cores could make it AoE, then add some CLWmass effect, then maybe Mass Restoration or Panacea effect... in that case, cooldown might need adjusting I guess

HastyPudding
06-27-2016, 09:59 AM
I'd rather have aasimar be an iconic-only race than have a drow-style "level adjustment", personally.

If we have to have them at all I would rather go with your idea

I don't really think we need more iconics. Unless you start with the 'XXX iconic requires XXX class to be owned' then I don't really see a point. What class would aasimar be, then? Cleric and paladin are taken, that means the only lore-suitable class is favored soul, which requires it to be purchased or unlocked (and with my example, this would require everyone who unlocked FVS via favor to have to actually purchase it in order to purchase aasimar). The only other free classes left without an iconic are bard, barbarian, sorcerer, and ranger, none of which suit an aasimar (the only remotely suitable one is bard, and that's still a stretch).


interesting

- core spell power could easily be bumped to +5
- sanctified weapons: why exactly these weapon types?
- celestial criticals: bit expensive, go down to 1 AP or give higher benefit
- celestial health: I don't see Aasimar as a high-HP race
- t4 sanctified weapons: i'd probably go with some more light effects, perhaps Radiance (blinds on crit?)

One could also work more with the Lesser Resto SLA. perhaps the higher cores could make it AoE, then add some CLWmass effect, then maybe Mass Restoration or Panacea effect... in that case, cooldown might need adjusting I guess

I like to be conservative on the numbers. You have to remember it's a racial tree, not a class tree, thus it shouldn't be 'I MUST have that!' type of quality.

Spellpower - It's 3 AP for 9 spellpower and 30% healing amp. That's a bargain.

Sanctioned Weapons - They're the more classically 'holy' weapons used by paladins and clerics (very common aasimar classes). You know, the traditional cleric with a mace or hammer or a paladin with a longsword and shield. I suppose you could add mauls, too.

Celestial Criticals: This matches other class trees that only give 1% or 2% critical chance for 2 AP. This also gives both positive and light, so technically it's equal to the 2% for 2 AP.

Celestial Health: I figured I would add this, seeing as aasimar tend to be in 'hardy' classes like paladins, clerics, fighters, etc. It's not as strong as the dwarf enhancement but it doesn't have the reflex penalty.

T4 effects: That would be nice. Extra light damage on criticals or a blind effect.

SLA: Again, I went conservative. I could easily see a panacea or CMW SLA in maybe tier 2, 3, or 4.

FranOhmsford
06-27-2016, 11:52 AM
The only problem I see with this is that it's SO Cleric/Soul centric that it virtually forces ALL Clerics/Souls to be Aasimar!

I don't like the idea of Aasimar {or Tieflings} as PCs in the first place - I certainly don't want to be seen as gimped because my Cleric is Human or my Soul is Drow rather than Aasimar!

That's a major reason why I hated Warforged - WF Sorc/Wizard and yes FavSoul were so clearly superior to every other Race back in the day!



If we have to have Aasimar and Tieflings then let's try not to make them clearly superior to other Races {A Major reason why we shouldn't have them is because by Lore they should be Superior!}.
There's a reason why Tieflings don't show up as Mobs until Lvl 5. {Drow, WF, Halflings also don't show up as mobs till later but that's because they were all PC races virtually from the start of DDO and not meant to be be fought in large numbers in low level quests}.



I'd much prefer the Devs give us Kobolds, Hobgoblins and Kalashtar than Tieflings or Aasimar! {I don't want Shifters either}.



And can we please get Cleric and FavSoul fixed without having to rely on Racials?!

HastyPudding
06-27-2016, 12:58 PM
/snip

Aasimar are a very 'holy' race. Even in PnP they have a natural disposition and tendency towards paladins, clerics, and other divine classes. Why are you not against drow for being very biased towards rangers, rogues, and shuriken builds? Why aren't you against halflings for being very rogue/thrower build-heavy? Why aren't you against dwarves for being natural shield-based fighters? Why are you not against half-orcs for being very THF/fighter/barbarian-heavy? Why aren't you against elves for being very biased towards rangers, wizards, and bards? Why aren't you against gnomes for being a very good fit into an illusionist archmage wizard build? All racial trees -- except humans and half-elves, which are generalists and supposed to fit into any role -- gravitate naturally towards certain classes and builds.

Why are you angry if an aasimar, a half-human-half-celestial, is biased towards a paladin or cleric or a tiefling, a half-human-half-demon, is biased towards rogues and warlocks?

Aelonwy
06-28-2016, 10:52 AM
Do svirfneblin have a level adjustment in DDO? Because they do in PnP and FYI its a greater level adjustment than either Teifling/Aasimar or Drow. I loathe the drow level adjustment in DDO and personally would not be in favor of it for Teifling/Aasimar but I'd rather that than Teifling/Aasimar be iconic. IMHO the devs seem to purposefully make these iconic races so they are more suited for an entirely different class than their pre-chosen iconic one and with the way the game has become so hyper specialized, again IMHO, and with Pure class characters generally being better (easier to build, easier to fix if mistakes are made, easier to change with constant game changes, with 18/20 cores improving each class update), and with the TR game mechanics; iconics to me are a blatant +1 heart cash grab that Turbine can reap over and over and over again.

I'm not unwilling to put money in Turbine's coffers but I'd rather pay for things like Adventure Packs, Monster Manuals, cosmetics, classes and races... but paying for a heart to fix what I see as an issue with the race, a hurdle I must jump over every time I use a race I have already purchased... well I just find that aggravating. Hence I have not bought svirfneblin. Sure you can point out that's how they were implemented in DDO from the beginning of Iconics. I'm not blind to that, I'm simply saying I don't like it one bit. No more Iconics, please.

Aelonwy
06-28-2016, 10:57 AM
The only other free classes left without an iconic are bard, barbarian, sorcerer, and ranger, none of which suit an aasimar (the only remotely suitable one is bard, and that's still a stretch).


You're probably right, if Turbine made an iconic Aasimar it would probably be a bard but far better suited for a paladin, cleric, favored soul and anyone who wanted to play a pure such class would have to buy a heart; a paladin would be doubly penalized... they'd have to get an alignment change too.

FranOhmsford
06-28-2016, 11:20 AM
Aasimar are a very 'holy' race. Even in PnP they have a natural disposition and tendency towards paladins, clerics, and other divine classes. Why are you not against drow for being very biased towards rangers, rogues, and shuriken builds? Why aren't you against halflings for being very rogue/thrower build-heavy? Why aren't you against dwarves for being natural shield-based fighters? Why are you not against half-orcs for being very THF/fighter/barbarian-heavy? Why aren't you against elves for being very biased towards rangers, wizards, and bards? Why aren't you against gnomes for being a very good fit into an illusionist archmage wizard build? All racial trees -- except humans and half-elves, which are generalists and supposed to fit into any role -- gravitate naturally towards certain classes and builds.

Why are you angry if an aasimar, a half-human-half-celestial, is biased towards a paladin or cleric or a tiefling, a half-human-half-demon, is biased towards rogues and warlocks?

1) Halflings have always been a Player Race in D&D and always been heavily biased towards Rogues and Thrower Builds.

2) Drow are not biased in DDO toward Rangers or Rogues {Shuriken Builds are a very niche build anyway so not worth worrying about}. Drow are more biased towards FavSouls and Sorcs where if it wasn't for Warforged they'd be outright the best Race!

3) H-Orcs should have been Druid based in DDO as Eberron Orcs are the Druids!

4) Gnomes in D&D have always been Illusionists first, anything else a distant second - I am however angry at Svirfneblin not being more Divine Wis based as they should be because they are very different from the standard Gnome and that just isn't shown in DDO.

5) I'm not even going to justify the rest.


Aasimar and Tieflings have never been Player Races outside of Planescape and DM Fiat!
Aasimar don't even exist in DDO - Archons do but not Aasimar.
Tieflings in DDO are Monsters - Full Stop - There are no good Tieflings anywhere in DDO!
We have Kobold and Hobgoblin Buffers on our Airships! There is a Hobgoblin in House P who is nominally a friend of Stormreach, We have TWO Kobold Trainers {A FavSoul in the Marketplace and a Sorceror in the Harbour!}. But not one single good Tiefling!



Oh and Every Race should have it speciality but my issue is when that speciality becomes so heavy that it makes that race outright the only viable choice for that speciality while simultaneously making that race a bad choice as anything else.
Race is one of the few things in DDO I can keep the same through reincarnations - I don't want my Halfing Arti to have to be an Aasimar to get through his divine past lives!

Aelonwy
06-28-2016, 11:53 AM
Aasimar and Tieflings have never been Player Races outside of Planescape and DM Fiat!


That's funny because I have a hard bound Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting published in 2001 that includes Aasimar, Teifling and Genasi as player races, and like it or not Forgotten Realms is a part of DDO.

FranOhmsford
06-28-2016, 12:08 PM
That's funny because I have a hard bound Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting published in 2001 that includes Aasimar, Teifling and Genasi as player races, and like it or not Forgotten Realms is a part of DDO.

Yet another reason for me to hate 3.5!

What gets me is that the common complaint about 2nd Ed. was that there were too many optional rulebooks while DMs and Players would argue about what to allow but 3.5 went crazy with them!

Adding Tiefling, Aasimar and whatever that other race is supposed to be as playable Characters in Forgotten Realms is just plain Wrong!
They aren't even native to the Realms!

Aelonwy
06-28-2016, 12:29 PM
They aren't even native to the Realms!

I started with 3.0/3.5, although my husband whose 10 yrs older than I and began with the original game has explained THACO and elf as a class (crazytalk), so this is the version that is best to me. *Generic 4th and 5th edition hate grumble grumble* But technically... Aasimar, Teifling, and Genasi are natives, they are classified as Native Outsiders and not subject to banishment. It is one of their parents that aren't native... either celestial, infernal, abyssal, or elemental.

HastyPudding
06-28-2016, 03:05 PM
Just because tieflings are usually chaotic or evil doesn't mean they can't be good. There are tieflings all through D&D lore that know about their heritage and want to go against it and become paladins and clerics to prove it to others.

Aasimar would be the perfect candidate for a player character due to their natural tendency towards justice and doing good.

Uska
06-28-2016, 04:00 PM
That's funny because I have a hard bound Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting published in 2001 that includes Aasimar, Teifling and Genasi as player races, and like it or not Forgotten Realms is a part of DDO.

Optional only and with a racial adjustment for at least aasimar

Uska
06-28-2016, 04:04 PM
The only problem I see with this is that it's SO Cleric/Soul centric that it virtually forces ALL Clerics/Souls to be Aasimar!

I don't like the idea of Aasimar {or Tieflings} as PCs in the first place - I certainly don't want to be seen as gimped because my Cleric is Human or my Soul is Drow rather than Aasimar!

That's a major reason why I hated Warforged - WF Sorc/Wizard and yes FavSoul were so clearly superior to every other Race back in the day!



If we have to have Aasimar and Tieflings then let's try not to make them clearly superior to other Races {A Major reason why we shouldn't have them is because by Lore they should be Superior!}.
There's a reason why Tieflings don't show up as Mobs until Lvl 5. {Drow, WF, Halflings also don't show up as mobs till later but that's because they were all PC races virtually from the start of DDO and not meant to be be fought in large numbers in low level quests}.



I'd much prefer the Devs give us Kobolds, Hobgoblins and Kalashtar than Tieflings or Aasimar! {I don't want Shifters either}.



And can we please get Cleric and FavSoul fixed without having to rely on Racials?!

WF weren't superior to anything when DDO was first released in fact they were inferior to everything half healing poorly armored, no immunities at all and could drown people only played them for flavor. then they were given their proper abilities and people cried to they were over powered so they got toned down.

Aelonwy
06-28-2016, 04:09 PM
Optional only and with a racial adjustment for at least aasimar

Looking at the book on my lap right now and both Teifling and Aasimar, as well as Genasi have a +1 Level Adjustment, Drow have a +2 level adjustment and Svirfneblin have a +3 level adjustment.

Karadon_II
06-29-2016, 03:48 AM
I'd rather have aasimar be an iconic-only race than have a drow-style "level adjustment", personally.Agreed. Aasimar are my favourite PC race in D&D. They should be mode more powerful than most and having them at low levels would be cheese. Besides as Aasimar are considered rare in Eberron as opposed to Forgotten Realms there's lore justification to make them Iconic- only.

HastyPudding
06-29-2016, 09:26 AM
Agreed. Aasimar are my favourite PC race in D&D. They should be mode more powerful than most and having them at low levels would be cheese. Besides as Aasimar are considered rare in Eberron as opposed to Forgotten Realms there's lore justification to make them Iconic- only.

That's the main issue I see with both Aasimar and Tieflings: Aasimar are very rare in Eberron and Tieflings are rarely good-aligned. Forgotten Realms has both of them, and if not common, at least much more common than in Eberron. The problem is we already have enough iconics and none of the classes left match these two races without going into the realm of 'you must own this class before you can purchase this iconic'. If that was the case, we could easily have a Tiefling warlock and an Aasimar favored soul, along with an orc druid in the future.

But, I honestly don't think we need more iconics. Level 1-14 is already slow and dead. All iconics are doing is moving the population into the 15-30 range. This is a good way to cut off the immigration of new players, which DDO desperately needs.

Karadon_II
06-29-2016, 09:56 AM
we already have enough iconics and none of the classes left match these two races without going into the realm of 'you must own this class before you can purchase this iconic'. .

Hmmm. Have they said they would not / can't implement P2P classes into Iconics? Could they not implement an 'unlock' for the P2P class just for that Iconic character without implementing a global unlock for the account [assuming people didn't have the class].

That said, I can't imagine a Turbine beancounter saying "So what? Make them buy both!!!"

Also lets assume 'Lore' still matters to this game :)

Steve_Howe
06-29-2016, 12:16 PM
Optional only and with a racial adjustment for at least aasimar

I'm told that Tieflings are a Core race now in v5.0

Not sure what Aasimars' status in v5.0 is.

Uska
06-29-2016, 03:08 PM
I'm told that Tieflings are a Core race now in v5.0

Not sure what Aasimars' status in v5.0 is.

yeah not sure about aaimars status I only play 5e at cons and then only if there isn't a Hackmaster 5E game going

Uska
06-29-2016, 03:11 PM
Looking at the book on my lap right now and both Teifling and Aasimar, as well as Genasi have a +1 Level Adjustment, Drow have a +2 level adjustment and Svirfneblin have a +3 level adjustment.

yeah all my non Hackmaster 5E books are 3k away right now and I don't have any 4E books after the BBQ we held for them. If Teifling and Aasimar are +1 races then maybe they should be 30 pt races where normal races are 32 and drow are 28

HastyPudding
06-29-2016, 07:43 PM
Also lets assume 'Lore' still matters to this game :)

Tiefling and aasimar barbarians sound very silly...

Aelonwy
06-29-2016, 09:05 PM
Tiefling and aasimar barbarians sound very silly...

But... but... don't you ever choose the most widely incongruous race + class combinations just for the heck of it while playing PnP?! Sometimes you just have to try it.

Uska
06-29-2016, 09:46 PM
Tiefling and aasimar barbarians sound very silly...

Tiefling makes some sense but not assimar at least to me.

HastyPudding
06-29-2016, 10:13 PM
Tiefling makes some sense but not assimar at least to me.

Not sure how a tiefling barbarian would make sense. I mean, they're all about trickery, deceit, and combat advantage. That's about the opposite of a barbarian as you can get.

I could see an aasimar monk, paladin, cleric, and favored soul, and to a lesser degree a druid or bard.

Uska
06-30-2016, 08:14 AM
Not sure how a tiefling barbarian would make sense. I mean, they're all about trickery, deceit, and combat advantage. That's about the opposite of a barbarian as you can get.

I could see an aasimar monk, paladin, cleric, and favored soul, and to a lesser degree a druid or bard.

Barbarians can be rude brutes and I can see some teiflings be so as well considering their heritage but most would be more subtle that said I would rather be beaten with Lucille than see either in game