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PainStealer
06-10-2016, 01:49 AM
I recently rebuilt my fighter to be a chew toy for a nasty puppy.

She has performed well in LE hound. After a few people asked about the build I figured that I would write it up and redirect them here.

So without much further ado .... I present Deijora the Elven Steel Maiden.

Steel Maiden
16/3/1 Fighter/Paladin/Wizard
Lawful Good Elf

Elf: Dragonmark of Shadow for Displacement
16 Fighter : Tactical Supremacy
3 Paladin: +11 to Saves, Double Dip some defender type enhancements. +5 AC from Aura
1 Wizard: Extend the Dragonmark ( Lasts 6 mins at 30 ) and +10% AC from Improved Mage Armor in EK.

Stats of note:
372 AC
135 Intimidate
60 UMD
1800 HP
19% Dodge
104 Dire Charge DC
Extended Displacement 4x6 minutes.
205 Heal Amp

As I collect more gear these numbers may change.

** The Enhancements listed are not how I run this character in regular questing. I put them this way just for tanking hound. Normally I run with a lot more in Vanguard. I also sometimes slip in some Harper for KTA **

Gear:
Armor: Platemail of the Celestial Avenger
Helmet: LGS Charisma Skills/ Mythic Emerald Gaze
Neck: Epic Lion's Mane
Trinket: Epic Litany of the Dead
Cloak: Mysterious Cloak
Belt: Lootgen Hasty of Natural Armor/ Legendary Animated Rope
Ring: Circle of Malevolence / Legendary Ring of Prowess
Ring: Lootgen CHA 15 DEX 14
Boots: Blessed Travels
Gloves: Lootgen Stun, Heal Amp
Bracers: Lootgen CON 13 Protection 10

I have other gear as well that I swap on for when I don't need all of the AC.

Weapons:
LGS War Hammer. Only to T2 right now. Will be triple positive.
Thunderforged War Hammer

Yes I know ... Khopesh is better. But I like Hammers. And Hammers do not cost a feat.


Level Order

1. Fighter. . . . .6. Fighter. . . . 11. Fighter. . . . 16. Fighter
2. Wizard. . . . . 7. Fighter . . . .12. Fighter . . . .17. Fighter
3. Paladin . . . . 8. Fighter . . . .13. Fighter . . . .18. Fighter
4. Paladin . . . . 9. Fighter . . . .14. Fighter . . . .19. Fighter
5. Paladin . . . .10. Fighter . . . .15. Fighter . . . .20. Fighter


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt. . .32pt. . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .----. . .----. . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 10 . . . 14 . . . 15 . . . 16. . . .+6. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+6. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14 . . . 14 . . . 14 . . . 14. . . .+6. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 14 . . . 14 . . . 14 . . . 14. . . .+6. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+6. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . 12 . . . 12 . . . 12 . . . 12. . . .+6. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: STR

Skills
. . . . . F. W .P. P .P. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F
. . . . . 1. 2 .3. 4 .5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . . .3. 3 .1. 1 . . . .1½ 1½ 1½ 1½ 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Intim . . 4. . . . . . . 3. 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 1. . . . 2 .2. . . . . . . . . . ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1½ 13
UMD . . . 2. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Jump. . . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .16. 4 .4. 4 .4. 4. 4. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6
. . . . .16. 4 .4. 4 .4. 4. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Fighter: Cleave
.2 Wizard : Extend Spell
.3. . . . : Past Life: Fighter
.3 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.6. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
.6 Fighter: Great Cleave
.8 Fighter: Shield Mastery
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
10 Fighter: Stunning Blow
12. . . . : Dodge
12 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
14 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning
15. . . . : Combat Expertise
16 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning
18. . . . : Tactical Mastery
18 Fighter: Mobility
20 Fighter: Tactical Supremacy
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Bulwark of Defense
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Heavy Armor Champion
28 Destiny: Epic Skill Focus: Intimidate
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Spells

Wizard
Jump, Shield, Protection from Evil

Enhancements (80 AP)

Stalwart Defender (41 AP)
Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance
Stalwart Defensive Mastery III, Threatening Countenance III
Stalwart Shield Mastery III, Armor Expertise III
Strong Defense III, Shield Expertise III, Strength
Swift Defense, Hardy Defense III, Reinforced Armor III, Strength
Block and Cut III, Tenacious Defense III, Reinforced Shield III

Elf (14 AP)
Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity
Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Arcane Fluidity III
Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Enchantment Lore I
Greater Dragonmark of Shadow

Sacred Defender (11 AP)
Holy Bastion
Extra Lay On Hands I, Sacred Armor Mastery III
Bulwark Aura III, Sacred Shield Mastery III

Vanguard (7 AP)
To the Fore!, Shield Combat I
Shield Specialization, Armor Training III

Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (7 AP)
Eldritch Strike
Improved Mage Armor III, Battlemage III



***********************************************
I didnt break down the Epic Destinies I used because it is just Sentinel. Pick all the AC bonuses. Twist in stuff that makes you survive longer.

So, That is the build. If you like it feel free to emulate it. Also if you have questions about it feel free to ask.

PainStealer
10-04-2016, 10:35 PM
http://i65.tinypic.com/ff5qq8.png

Vish
10-05-2016, 11:12 AM
What shield(s) do you use?

PainStealer
10-05-2016, 09:33 PM
What shield(s) do you use?

There are 3 shields that I use.

1. Devil's Defense -- Best AC
2. Breaker of Bodies -- Best Damage
3. Tireless Aid -- Best Cocoons + Wood so rust monsters and slimes don't eat it.

Wipey
10-09-2016, 02:03 AM
Sweet.

How many martial past lives you have ?

With that 375 - 400 ac, how often would you say dangerous mobs like elite Sorjek or Shroud Kitty or Devil hit you ?

Fecerak
10-10-2016, 08:18 AM
The suggested starting stats for the 28-point build are fairly bad. If you decreased starting con to 12, increased starting str to 14 and spent the first 2 levelups on con you would be at net +2 con with no downside except having 2 less con at levels 1-3 and 1 less con at levels 4-7.

psykopeta
10-10-2016, 09:10 AM
http://i65.tinypic.com/ff5qq8.png

Excuse me good sir, but maybe you forgot the gear layout herr or in the OP

In case u wanna share, ofc xD

PainStealer
10-11-2016, 09:18 PM
The suggested starting stats for the 28-point build are fairly bad. If you decreased starting con to 12, increased starting str to 14 and spent the first 2 levelups on con you would be at net +2 con with no downside except having 2 less con at levels 1-3 and 1 less con at levels 4-7.

Really I didn't consider the 28 point build. And yes doing the swap you have suggested would work nicely.

PainStealer
10-11-2016, 09:21 PM
Sweet.

How many martial past lives you have ?

With that 375 - 400 ac, how often would you say dangerous mobs like elite Sorjek or Shroud Kitty or Devil hit you ?

I have all 9 martial past lives done. The most testing I've done is against LE Xyzzy. She seems to hit me about 10% of the time.

PainStealer
10-11-2016, 09:31 PM
Excuse me good sir, but maybe you forgot the gear layout herr or in the OP

In case u wanna share, ofc xD

Sure

Head: Hardened Hide - Set Bonus
Goggles: Mentau
Trinket: Slave Lords - Set Bonus
Armor: Executioner - Set Bonus
Cloak: Slave Master - Set Bonus
Necklace: Griffin / Warrior's Focus
Bracer: Cannith crafted - Shelter/Resist/Intimidate
Ring1: Ring of Prowess
Ring2: slave lord crafted - Strength/Deception/Stun/Quality Strength - Set Bonus
Boots: Blessed Travels
Belt: Cannith crafted - Constitution/Parrying/Insightful Strength
Gloves: Cannith crafted - Doublestrike/Healing Amplification/Insightful Dexterity


** 5 Piece slave lords might bonus **

I still need to slot a Charisma 8 augment somewhere for 4 more Intim/Saves but that has been a low priority. Working on gathering more Slave Lord materials for another character.

Ziindarax
10-11-2016, 10:24 PM
That is an impressive build - what's more, I already have most of the items you list in your inventory. What's your AC like through most of the heroic journey? Can we get a breakdown on AC?

Ziindarax
10-12-2016, 06:54 PM
Once character copy gets back up - any chance you can import this character over, and see how it's AC handles the new Reaper Difficulty?

PainStealer
10-12-2016, 07:05 PM
Once character copy gets back up - any chance you can import this character over, and see how it's AC handles the new Reaper Difficulty?

Sure thing.

Ziindarax
10-13-2016, 04:47 PM
There are 3 shields that I use.

1. Devil's Defense -- Best AC
2. Breaker of Bodies -- Best Damage
3. Tireless Aid -- Best Cocoons + Wood so rust monsters and slimes don't eat it.

Looking at this now, I am wondering - Why Devil's Defense over Terminus? Effect-wise they're the same shield except Terminus has a higher ac than Devil's Defense.

I am also wondering - what of the armor class break down, any chance we can get a break down of all sources of armor?

PainStealer
10-13-2016, 08:26 PM
Looking at this now, I am wondering - Why Devil's Defense over Terminus? Effect-wise they're the same shield except Terminus has a higher ac than Devil's Defense.

I am also wondering - what of the armor class break down, any chance we can get a break down of all sources of armor?

Terminus is a Tower Shield. Tower shields have two problems. First they cap your dexterity. Second they cap your dodge bonus. Therefore your armor class would be lower because you would cap your dexterity bonus at a much lower number. You would also have a lower dodge bonus. With my current gear setup the build enjoys a 19 maximum dexterity bonus. If I recall correctly with a tower shield this drops to 10. So not only is the AC less the build would loose 9% dodge. In my opinion, for a defense oriented character tower shields are a poor choice.

As far as breaking down all sources of AC. I am sorry I am far too lazy to do that. Martial Past Lives, Armor, Gear Mods, Enhancements, Etc..

PainStealer
10-14-2016, 11:30 PM
Sure thing.

I tried to get onto lam tonight to test it out. Unfortunately the UI of the transfer screen seems to be bugged out. I am unable to select the correct options to transfer.

Propane
10-15-2016, 03:54 PM
Thanks for posting!

I see you have Bulwark of Defense on the list.

I always that this feat was underwhelming - did you consider others?

Spring Attack for +2 dodge or something?

Thanks for sharing!

PainStealer
10-16-2016, 08:37 PM
Thanks for posting!

I see you have Bulwark of Defense on the list.

I always that this feat was underwhelming - did you consider others?

Spring Attack for +2 dodge or something?

Thanks for sharing!

Sure feel free to take something else if you like. If taking something else I would gravitate toward one of the many feats that grant another +2 Melee power. I can hit my dodge cap (19) without spring attack.

Dodge Feat +3
Mobility +2
Shadar Kai past Lives +3
Blessed Travels +12

Totals to +20.

However if I did not have the shadar kai lives then I would certainly consider spring attack.

BigErkyKid
10-18-2016, 12:55 PM
I think I can make a dwarf AC + CON build pure fighter with capacity to switch destinies quickly to be a reaper tank. Maybe not even an enhancement reset.

Since you have played around more with AC builds, I'd love to pick your mind on it.

Planning on picking the THF line + dwarven axe / THF axe route. Doing a CON to damage build with max CON.

Max dodge 18

Dwarf armored mast 3
Fighter defensive mast 3
Fencing master 2
Mobility 2
Armored agility 2
Quality armored 2
Native armor 4

AC on DPS blitzed mode: 223 AC

Base 10
Past lives
Martial (x5) 25
Dwarf
Armored mastery 3
Fighter defensive mast 3
Stalwart
Native armor 38
using SD plus armor 57
Shield 0
using stalward
using dwarf
Other
Deflection (Slavers) 14
Dexterity 18
Natural armor
Normal (Slavers) 14
Insight 5
Bulkward 4
Riposte 6
Tenser 6
Stance multiplier 1.1

Shielding in blitz without US twist - 263 AC

Base 10
Past lives
Martial 25
Dwarf
Armored mastery 3
F defensive mast 3
Stalwart
Native armor 38
using SD plus armor 57
Shield 20
using stalward 30
using dwarf 34.5
Other
Deflection (Slavers) 14
Dexterity 18
Natural armor
Normal (Slavers) 14
Insight 5
Bulkward 4
Riposte 8
Tenser 6
Stance multiplier 1.1

Shielding in US - 320 AC

Base 10
Past lives
Martial 25
Dwarf
Armored mastery 3
F defensive mast 3
Stalwart
Native armor 38
using SD plus armor 57
Shield 20
using stalward 30
using dwarf 51.75
shield prowes 45
Other
Deflection (Slavers) 14
Dexterity 18
Natural armor
Normal (Slavers) 14
Insight 5
Bulkward 4
Riposte 8
Hardened 15
Tenser 6
Stance multiplier 1.1


Questions for you:

1 - Do you know how the stacking of shield enhancements work? For example, dwarf has +15%, stalwart 50%, US +50%.

Is then the AC of a shield BASE*1.15*1.5*1.5?

2 - Have I missed any obvious gear or build choices to increase my AC?


Many thanks in advance!

BigErkyKid
10-18-2016, 03:11 PM
Some additional details:

HPs: 2100 (no LGS, blitz, 86 CON)

HPs: 2600 (no LGS, US, still assuming 86 CON)

HPs: 3200 (LGS, US, still assuming 86 CON)

What I am wondering is how much extra you get from going all ham on the AC. Is it really needed, the extra 10% from wizard?

If you check the miss chances addition, it is rather low, even for the highest CR mobs (sorjek).

PainStealer
10-18-2016, 10:08 PM
Yes the shield enhancements stack.

Normally I run in dreadnought. ( sentinel is for being a chew toy ) In dreadnought with Power Attack ( without Tensers because it is a PITA to keep up when I am zerging ) I run 274 AC ( 306 with Tenser and Combat Expertise ). Without a shield this drops to 217. This means my heavy shield is contributing 57 AC.
Even though the shield says it is only giving 22 AC. Really for most tanking situations I just stay in dreadnought. I turn on Combat Expertise and suddenly I have the AC of most builds that run in sentinel ( if not more ).

As far as going THF .... I wouldn't bother with this build. As S&B I run 55% doublestrike that boosts to 80% whenever I activate Block and Cut. While running fully blitzed I am hitting stunned mobs for 900-1000 damage non critical. Of course criticals go up from there. And as my Dire Charge DC is 110 right now trash is usually stunned. So while the build may not put out the DPS of some of the top ranger builds it still does very respectable DPS.

As far as the Wizard level goes 10% AC is a pretty big contribution. You also get 1 meta magic feat as well as the feat that grants echoes of power. The meta magic I take is extend for the displacement dragonmark.

BigErkyKid
10-19-2016, 04:25 AM
Thanks for the answer!

I have been playing around with the to be hit chances and frankly the value of AC diminishes once you consider all the stacking to miss sources.

Let me give you some examples:


Base stats: 18 dodge, mobs fail on a roll of 1, incorporeal.


AC 200, mob attack 150 (sorjek), displacement, base stats.
To be hit: 14% (0.95*0.36*0.82*0.9*0.5)
AC 200, mob attack 150 (sorjek), no displacement (TS mob), base stats.
To be hit: 25% (0.95*0.36*0.82*0.9)


AC 300, mob attack 150 (sorjek), displacement, base stats.
To be hit: 9% (0.95*0.27*0.82*0.9*0.5)
AC 300, mob attack 150 (sorjek), displacement, base stats.
To be hit: 18% (0.95*0.27*0.82*0.9)


So it is a 5% difference with displacement, and a 7% otherwise for 100 AC. Which is nice and all, but probably very marginal in actual gameplay.

In my case, I am trying to build a multitool character. Something that would allow me to switch to tank reaper (US with a shield), and then without even changing enhancements go LD for very high DPS. I believe that it is possible to do that without sacrificing too much offensive or defensive power.

What I am thinking now is whether I should do dwarf 20 Fighter, which would favor DPS; or 18 fighter / 1 wizard / 1 divine. The first platform would be capstone kensei, TYWA dwarf, rest into stalwart. The second would use the wizard 10% extra AC and empower healing for cocoon from the divine class.

The 10% armor class difference can be quite hefty in AC numbers once you start going all out on AC, but I am not sure its such a huge to miss chance after all.

Take the numbers of my example and a 350 AC platform (kind of like yours). It is 385 AC with the wizard enhancement.


Wizard based with displacement
to be hit:7%


Wizard based without displacement
to be hit:14%


Non wizard with displacement
to be hit: 8%


Non wizard based without displacement
to be hit: 16%

So really you are gaining 1% -2% chances to be missed. It is truly very little.

I am very aware that MOAR is better, but then you end up with a toon that basically serves one purpose. What I am trying to do is a toon that can be multi purpose and still achieve notable results in both ends. With over 3k HPs, 300AC, 200PRR, it seems to me that this could be a reaper tank. Then hope a quick destiny switch and you got a nice THF great axe build.

PainStealer
10-20-2016, 11:53 PM
I am pretty sure you are missing my point.

But that is ok. Have fun with your build. Personally I prefer to have great AC all the time. In dread I run 270 ish. For the rare times that 270 is insufficient I swap to sentinel and get 400. I have noticed a large difference in effectiveness in quests between 230 ish and the 270 I run now. The wizard level is what lets me run such a high AC in dreadnought . I find that the loss of DPS by not going pure fighter is more than offset by the fact that I rarely have to heal myself. I routinely run high level EE and LE content and find that by the end of the quest I never had to heal once. This means that I never have to stop my DPS to heal. Also you may find that those small percentages in miss chance add up once you are in the middle of a pack of LE mobs cleaving.

Ziindarax
10-25-2016, 05:41 PM
So how viable was your tanking ability in Reaper?

PainStealer
10-29-2016, 12:36 PM
I still have not been able to get onto lam to try it out on reaper. Once lam is up again i will try again.

Fedora1
10-29-2016, 03:13 PM
That toon name sounds familiar. Any chance it's inspired by John Carter of Mars books?

PainStealer
10-29-2016, 06:03 PM
That toon name sounds familiar. Any chance it's inspired by John Carter of Mars books?

Yes. Properly it should be Dejah Thoris.

When I first started playing MMO games about 16 years ago I misspelled Dejah as Deijah. The second MMO I ever played someone had already claimed the name Dejah. So one again I used Deijah. Ever since then I have kept the wrong spelling. All of my characters in DDO use some form of that name.

Fedora1
10-30-2016, 09:09 AM
Yes. Properly it should be Dejah Thoris.

When I first started playing MMO games about 16 years ago I misspelled Dejah as Deijah. The second MMO I ever played someone had already claimed the name Dejah. So one again I used Deijah. Ever since then I have kept the wrong spelling. All of my characters in DDO use some form of that name.

Cool. It's been a while but those were some good books.

achitophel
11-05-2016, 03:17 PM
10/10, would copy build again.

PainStealer
12-27-2016, 12:56 PM
interesting build, PainStealer.

But I am curious. What would you do differently if you had a whole stack of displacement clickies from shroud and decided not to use the dragonmark for displace?

what about a TYWA dwarf?

First off ... I am sorry it took so long to respond ... I just havn't checked this thread for a week or so.

Personally I would not do TYWA ... It costs a ton of AP. There are so many things you can spend your AP on as a fighter that to me seem a lot better. I have done this fighter as a pure 20 dwarf before. Pure fighter with this feat setup is great. I do have a ton of displacement clickies but I just got tired of micromanaging the buff. I noticed that when I was dying it was because the clickie had worn off and I forgot to refresh it. So I decided to look around for a better way to get displacement. Elf was an easy choice. Splashing 1 Wizard let me extend the dragon mark as well as gave me 10% AC.

unbongwah
12-27-2016, 01:52 PM
what about a TYWA dwarf?
In another thread, I saw someone argue that even if you go CON-based S&B dwarf, you should skip TYWA and stick with STR to dmg. The reason being that there's so much stat inflation these days thru gear, tomes, etc. that even with modest base STR (let's say 13 + 4 tome for THF feat-preqs) and no level-ups, you're still going to have a high enough dmg mod without TYWA. Whereas your APs are a finite resource and 18 is a lot to sacrifice, particularly given all the buffage in the class PrEs and especially if you want a Vanguard which is always AP-constrained. Even if you're willing to spend 18 APs in your racial tree, you might be better off on a S&B dwarf taking Dwarven Fortress (+7% S&B DPS) over TYWA.

Alcedes
12-27-2016, 03:51 PM
i was building something extremely similar to this...for the main reason i was sick and tired of forgetting my displacement clickies ever 1.5 minutes with my last life.

i hadnt thought of the wizard splash. i was going to do 17 fighter/3 paladin. VERY similar feat/enhancement setup. nearly identical in fact. my goal was going to be to stack as much AC + dodge as possible. I have been doing PRR builds since the stat was released and my results have been mixed but effective. It seems after about 225-250 PRR there really is not much point to more and can likely get more out of stacking AC once you hit that point of diminishing returns.

i have decided to splash in that 1 level of wizard. you have intrigued me and i know im doing another fighter life after this so if i dont like it, no biggie.

im curious though, why the fighter past life at level 2? seems like the build doesnt really gain much from that.

my biggest concern with the path i am on right now is the self healing. it should be fine. but im spoiled by my last paladin life. ;)

DaveyCrockett
01-14-2017, 04:57 PM
I didnt break down the Epic Destinies I used because it is just Sentinel. Pick all the AC bonuses. Twist in stuff that makes you survive longer.

I am relearning everything after a 7-year hiatus. Wiki lists requirements for Unyielding Sentinel, and I don't see how this build reaches any of them. I'm missing something, so enlighten me?

Kyodaemon
01-14-2017, 06:26 PM
I am relearning everything after a 7-year hiatus. Wiki lists requirements for Unyielding Sentinel, and I don't see how this build reaches any of them. I'm missing something, so enlighten me?

The "Requirements" for Unyielding Sentinel are purely for when a character first its 20 on any life, and is able to choose their STARTING destiny. This is where you'd need to qualify to start in the Sentinel destiny.


After choosing your starter, you are able to freely unlock the others by earning experience and moving around the 'map' presented in-game. Your progress on these destinies is permanent, you will pick up where you left off after any reincarnation afterwards. :) Hope this helps clarify what I understood of your question!

unbongwah
01-15-2017, 11:23 AM
I am relearning everything after a 7-year hiatus. Wiki lists requirements for Unyielding Sentinel, and I don't see how this build reaches any of them. I'm missing something, so enlighten me?
Welcome back. :)

http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Destinies

The crash course in Epic Destinies (EDs):

EDs were introduced in Update 14 (MotU (http://ddowiki.com/page/Menace_of_the_Underdark)) along with epic levels (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_level) (at the time 21-25). XP you gain in epics goes towards your EDs, your epic lvls, and your Karma (more on that later).
The first time you get a char to lvl 20 (or in your case the first time you relevel a pre-MotU toon to 20), you can unlock your first ED. Which EDs you can unlock depends on your class(es) which are associated with one of four Spheres. E.g., a pure paladin only has access to the Divine Sphere. Once you pick your initial ED, that becomes your starting point from which you can traverse the other EDs; you unlock an adjacent ED when you hit ED lvl 3 or 4, depending on whether it's in the same Sphere or not.
As you level your ED, you gain Epic Destiny Points (EDPs) which you spend on ED abilities, much as you do with PrEs. Also like PrEs, you need to spend EDPs in each tier to unlock the next one; i.e., spend 4 EDPs in the first tier to unlock the second; spend a total of 8 EDPs in the first two tiers to unlock the third, etc. However, unlike PrEs, there's no universal "pool" of EDPs; each ED is leveled separately. E.g., say you started in Unyielding Sentinel (US) and leveled it to 3; this earns you 16 EDPs and unlocks the two adjacent EDs in the Divine Sphere. But if you switched to Divine Crusader, you would start over with zero EDPs.
So why level other EDs besides your main one? This is where Twists of Fate come in. As you level your EDs, you gain Fate pts, which can be used to unlock Twist slots; these let you add abilities from other EDs to your currently active ED. E.g., a common Twist for a S&B toon is Legendary Shield Mastery (LSM) from US: "Passive Bonus: While wearing a shield, you gain +[5/10/15] Physical Resistance Rating and +[2/4/7]% chance to doublestrike." When you Twist LSM, you gain those passive bonuses while in another ED. Twists are progressively more expensive; i.e., the first rank is 1 Fate pt, the next rank is 2 Fate pts, etc. Currently the max # of Fate pts is 37, so that puts a hard limit on which Twist combos are possible. Also you can't Twist a tier-5 or tier-6 ED ability nor the inherent cores; so that becomes part of planning your build long-term.
So what's Karma? U20 introduced two new forms of Reincarnation: Iconic TR (http://ddowiki.com/page/Iconic_True_Reincarnation) (ITR) and Epic Reincarnation (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Reincarnation) (ER or ETR). Karma is used for the latter; when you "fill" one of your ED Spheres with 6 million Karma, you can ER for an epic PL feat (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Past_Life_Feats) at level cap. You lose that Karma and drop down to level 20, while gaining an EPL. Because it wouldn't be DDO if they didn't keep inventing new ways to keep you farming for past lives, would it? ;)
Fortunately, leveling an ED is permanent; once you max out an ED, you never have to level it again. [Trust me: the first time you max out, say, a caster-centric ED on a pure melee toon, your immediate reaction will be, "Thank goodness I don't have to do that again!"] Although when you HTR or ITR, all your EDPs are automatically reset, which means you have to redo them when you get back to lvl 20, which is a bit of a PITA.


So when talking about epic toons, it's important to distinguish between endgame toons which have filled out all their EDs, farmed their past lives, etc. and toons which are still on that journey. A lot of the build threads you'll find (including this one) is focused on endgame configs, without necessarily providing a plan for how you get there.

DaveyCrockett
01-15-2017, 03:07 PM
Thank you to the both of ya! I get it now. So in this build, at first time Epic, one would be able to choose a Fighter ED.
So getting the Heroic Past Lives first would be a wise choice, then start the ER-fest to unlock the ED, mixing up your main class each time to have access to different EDs (much like you mix it up to get the Past Lives). The Greek is slowly becoming English!! lol

Kyodaemon
01-16-2017, 06:27 PM
then start the ER-fest to unlock the ED, mixing up your main class each time to have access to different EDs

This part isn't strictly correct.

Your Heroic class mix is only ever relevant to ED selection ONCE, when you first choose one.

Once levelled to 20+, and a 'Martial' Destiny was selected, this build could then unlock all the other EDs by earning exp in each one and moving along the chains. All without changing it's Heroic class mix.

Once a character has the experience to unlock a destiny, they can freely swap in/out of it at an NPC ingame.

unbongwah
01-17-2017, 10:38 AM
So getting the Heroic Past Lives first would be a wise choice, then start the ER-fest to unlock the ED, mixing up your main class each time to have access to different EDs (much like you mix it up to get the Past Lives).
One thing to bear in mind: when you HTR or ITR, all of your quest completions are reset; that doesn't happen when you ER, though. So the downside to HTR/ITR is you lose all your Favor, raid flagging, etc. and have to do it all over again to unlock whatever you want to access on your next life. But the downside to ER is you can't re-qualify for first-time completion bonuses on quests; in particular, you don't get Bravery Bonuses (http://ddowiki.com/page/Bravery_bonus) for quests you ran before you ERed.

So it's probably more optimal to alternate between HTR/ITR and ER in order to keep those XP bonuses maxed out as much as possible. I'm sure someone has a spreadsheet or something where they figured out the optimal order for banging out all the past lives...

zehnvhex
01-17-2017, 11:16 AM
It's actually a bit of a wash. We'll assume for the sake of argument you're going to be doing a lot of this solo.

Some things to consider:

Swapping method
----
Start at level 1
Get 30
ETR to 20 (get EPL)
TR into an iconic (get HPL)

Get to 30
ITR into level 1 (get IPL and HPL)
Go to start
-----
- First run/BB bonus are really nice
- Constantly switching builds/classes keeps things fresh
- More dungeon variety keeps you from stabbing your face out


Vs.


Grinding ETR's first method
----
Start at level 1
HTR at 20 (HPL)
HTR again at 20 (HPL and unlock 36 point build)
Get to 30 and now do 36 ETR's
Now do 15 ITR's (15 EPL's, 15 HPL's)
Now finish out HTR's
----
- Can focus on beefing up one fast clearing power build to make ETR's go faster
- Saga's don't reset when you ETR so you can instantly boost from 20 to 22 or 23
- Having full ETR bonuses when you start TR train is insane boost to low leveling speed
- Can get your 20 run completions for raids

...

Personally I prefer the ETR grinding method. I was able to make a perfect set of crafted gear for levels 20, 25 and have my 'raid' stuff at 28. Makes leveling super fast too once you do start on your TR train. Having 30+ PRR, AC, etc...is stupidly good.

adrian69
01-18-2017, 06:47 PM
It's actually a bit of a wash. We'll assume for the sake of argument you're going to be doing a lot of this solo.

Some things to consider:

Swapping method
----
Start at level 1
Get 30
ETR to 20 (get EPL)
TR into an iconic (get HPL)

Get to 30
ITR into level 1 (get IPL and HPL)
Go to start
-----
- First run/BB bonus are really nice
- Constantly switching builds/classes keeps things fresh
- More dungeon variety keeps you from stabbing your face out


Vs.


Grinding ETR's first method
----
Start at level 1
HTR at 20 (HPL)
HTR again at 20 (HPL and unlock 36 point build)
Get to 30 and now do 36 ETR's
Now do 15 ITR's (15 EPL's, 15 HPL's)
Now finish out HTR's
----
- Can focus on beefing up one fast clearing power build to make ETR's go faster
- Saga's don't reset when you ETR so you can instantly boost from 20 to 22 or 23
- Having full ETR bonuses when you start TR train is insane boost to low leveling speed
- Can get your 20 run completions for raids

...

Personally I prefer the ETR grinding method. I was able to make a perfect set of crafted gear for levels 20, 25 and have my 'raid' stuff at 28. Makes leveling super fast too once you do start on your TR train. Having 30+ PRR, AC, etc...is stupidly good.


I tell my people to 1 to 20, 20-30, 30-20, 20-1, 15-30, 30-20, 20-30, 30-1, rotation to get ETRs done faster. They're more important imo, and can make the last lives on Triple C move really fast allowing a person to really negate gear until they hit Orchard/Vale (or Archon's).

Jeoffree
01-23-2017, 12:26 PM
Sure

Head: Hardened Hide - Set Bonus
Goggles: Mentau
Trinket: Slave Lords - Set Bonus
Armor: Executioner - Set Bonus
Cloak: Slave Master - Set Bonus
Necklace: Griffin / Warrior's Focus
Bracer: Cannith crafted - Shelter/Resist/Intimidate
Ring1: Ring of Prowess
Ring2: slave lord crafted - Strength/Deception/Stun/Quality Strength - Set Bonus
Boots: Blessed Travels
Belt: Cannith crafted - Constitution/Parrying/Insightful Strength
Gloves: Cannith crafted - Doublestrike/Healing Amplification/Insightful Dexterity


** 5 Piece slave lords might bonus **

I still need to slot a Charisma 8 augment somewhere for 4 more Intim/Saves but that has been a low priority. Working on gathering more Slave Lord materials for another character.

I have all of the above gear, triple everything completionist, followed the build enhancements and feats and cannot get the 402 AC shown. I am getting 378 with 203 PRR and 101 MRR. I did take completionist and kopesh instead of power attack and cleave. I am in unyielding sentinel with all the AC boosts and twisting in walking with waves (grandmaster), lithe (shadowdancer) and dragonhide (draconic) for more AC. I have a maxed out guild ship. What am I missing augments that contribute, mythic bonuses, AC eldritch ritual on armor? Any help to get to 400 would be appreciated. thanks,

Propane
01-24-2017, 04:13 PM
I have all of the above gear, triple everything completionist, followed the build enhancements and feats and cannot get the 402 AC shown. I am getting 378 with 203 PRR and 101 MRR. I did take completionist and kopesh instead of power attack and cleave. I am in unyielding sentinel with all the AC boosts and twisting in walking with waves (grandmaster), lithe (shadowdancer) and dragonhide (draconic) for more AC. I have a maxed out guild ship. What am I missing augments that contribute, mythic bonuses, AC eldritch ritual on armor? Any help to get to 400 would be appreciated. thanks,

It would be interesting to know what your values are standing without stance / gear / ED...
One could also use a "crafting blanks" for shield & armor, with and without stance and EDs..

Jeoffree
01-24-2017, 11:09 PM
It would be interesting to know what your values are standing without stance / gear / ED...
One could also use a "crafting blanks" for shield & armor, with and without stance and EDs..

Here is my breakdown of AC source

Base - 10
Dex 52 (profane 2, Mentau's 11, 7 insight) - 17
Bulwark Epic Feat (4 defensive stance) Misc. - 4
9 Martial Past lives (28 Misc. 17 Feat) - 45

Enhancements
Bulwark Aura (5 misc) - 5
Sacred Armor Mastery (Pal 3 Feat) - 3
Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Ftr 3 Feat) - 3
Aura of Good (Feat) 1
Stalwart Defensive Stance On 0

Ship Buff
Armory (Guild Bonus) Misc. - 6
Alchemical Armor Ritual - 1
Alchemical Shield Ritual - 1

Equipment
Legendary Executioners Plate (Armor with Unyielding Sentinal on) - 74
Legendary Hardened Hide (17 Natural Armor) - 17
Epic Mentau's Goggles 0
Epic Lion's Mane (5 Insight Natural Armor) - 5
Legendary Slave Master's Cloak - 14
Legendary Symbol of the Slave Lords 0
Blessed Travels (Quality Armor Mastery 2) 0
CC Gloves (7 Insight Dex) 0
CC Belt (7 Parrying) Misc. - 7
Devil's Defense (Shield 49, Misc 1) - 50
Saphire of Armor Agility - 2

Epic Destiny
Unyielding
Unbreakable (5 Natural Armor)- 5
Shield Prowess (50% Shield Bonus Devils Defense 27) - 13
Hardened (15 feat) - 15

Twists
Grandmaster of Flowers
Walking with the Waves (6 Feat) - 6
Shadowdancer
Lithe (6 Feat) - 6
Draconic
Dragonhide (3 Natural Armor) - 3

Tensors (6 Alchemical Misc.) - 6

Total AC - 319

Combat Expertise (10%)
Improved Mage Armor (10%)

Grand Total - 383


I know I have to be missing something silly, AC eldritch ritual - 1, Cleric spell - 2 luck, augments something? Any help would be appreciated form OP or others. I need that 400 AC :cool:

adrian69
01-25-2017, 07:43 PM
Here is my breakdown of AC source

Base - 10
Dex 52 (profane 2, Mentau's 11, 7 insight) - 17
Bulwark Epic Feat (4 defensive stance) Misc. - 4
9 Martial Past lives (28 Misc. 17 Feat) - 45

Enhancements
Bulwark Aura (5 misc) - 5
Sacred Armor Mastery (Pal 3 Feat) - 3
Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Ftr 3 Feat) - 3
Aura of Good (Feat) 1
Stalwart Defensive Stance On 0

Ship Buff
Armory (Guild Bonus) Misc. - 6
Alchemical Armor Ritual - 1

Equipment
Legendary Executioners Plate (Armor with Unyielding Sentinal on) - 74
Legendary Hardened Hide (17 Natural Armor) - 17
Epic Mentau's Goggles 0
Epic Lion's Mane (5 Insight Natural Armor) - 5
Legendary Slave Master's Cloak - 14
Legendary Symbol of the Slave Lords 0
Blessed Travels (Quality Armor Mastery 2) 0
CC Gloves (7 Insight Dex) 0
CC Belt (7 Parrying) Misc. - 7
Devil's Defense (Shield 49, Misc 1) - 50

Epic Destiny
Unyielding
Unbreakable (5 Natural Armor)- 5
Shield Prowess (50% Shield Bonus Devils Defense 27) - 13
Hardened (15 feat) - 15

Twists
Grandmaster of Flowers
Walking with the Waves (6 Feat) - 6
Shadowdancer
Lithe (6 Feat) - 6
Draconic
Dragonhide (3 Natural Armor) - 3

Tensors (6 Alchemical Misc.) - 6

Total AC - 316

Combat Expertise (10%)
Improved Mage Armor (10%)

Grand Total - 379


I know I have to be missing something silly, AC eldritch ritual - 1, Cleric spell - 2 luck, augments something? Any help would be appreciated form OP or others. I need that 400 AC :cool:

Possibly an enhancement that increases by % math is off?

Propane
01-26-2017, 10:10 AM
Have you experimented with the order of...

Tensors (6 Alchemical Misc.) - 6
Combat Expertise (10%)
Improved Mage Armor (10%)

Maybe Tensors - then CE, IMA...

Jeoffree
01-27-2017, 08:23 AM
Have you experimented with the order of...

Tensors (6 Alchemical Misc.) - 6
Combat Expertise (10%)
Improved Mage Armor (10%)

Maybe Tensors - then CE, IMA...

Order does not seem to matter same result 379 each time. Can hit 380 when I get the collectibles for the eldritch ritual on shield but still way short of the OP 402. Sent him a PM maybe he can point out what I'm missing.

Jeoffree
01-27-2017, 02:13 PM
Added a Safire of Amore Agility for 3 more AC update my AC breakdown thread. Thank you Kanntouch for the help.

Sehenry03
02-08-2017, 09:47 PM
Anyone tested this build on various reaper levels?

Jeoffree
02-13-2017, 07:18 PM
Anyone tested this build on various reaper levels?

I have. Not any problems Reaper 1-4. Reaper 5 orange crown champs can start to hurt you. Did Reaper 10 Feast or Famine at level 30 died 7 times but probably should have been fewer.

Blastyswa
02-15-2017, 01:45 AM
Order does not seem to matter same result 379 each time. Can hit 380 when I get the collectibles for the eldritch ritual on shield but still way short of the OP 402. Sent him a PM maybe he can point out what I'm missing.

Legendary Hardened Hide Armor:
64 AC
Compared to Executioner's Platemail having +74, so a difference of 10.

From your breakdown, it looks like you have 52 dex but only 17 dexterity bonus, meaning that you're only getting benefit for 44 points of dexterity. If you pumped dexterity a little more (17 Slavers, 4 Quality) might could get more AC out of Legendary Hardened Hide Armor than Executioner's Platemail. Even if you didn't, I'd actually recommend making the swap for more dodge; personally it's better to have 25% dodge and 380 AC than 10% dodge and 400 AC.

Jeoffree
02-15-2017, 09:46 AM
Legendary Hardened Hide Armor:
64 AC
Compared to Executioner's Platemail having +74, so a difference of 10.

From your breakdown, it looks like you have 52 dex but only 17 dexterity bonus, meaning that you're only getting benefit for 44 points of dexterity. If you pumped dexterity a little more (17 Slavers, 4 Quality) might could get more AC out of Legendary Hardened Hide Armor than Executioner's Platemail. Even if you didn't, I'd actually recommend making the swap for more dodge; personally it's better to have 25% dodge and 380 AC than 10% dodge and 400 AC.

I have 50 dex and 19 Dex bonus, cant figure out how to get it to 20. OP says he gets 20% dodge and 402 AC trying to figure out how he got that from this gear. I will try your suggestion as I own the hardened hide armor as well and see if I can crank both up a bit but I think that I will lose a bunch of PRR from heavy to light and the +2 profane bonus and slavers bonus. I am currently set at 19% dodge.

Jeoffree
02-25-2017, 10:19 AM
with defense action boost I can hit 402 for 15 seconds that must have been what was missing.

Sehenry03
02-26-2017, 02:04 PM
So with reaper I notice that Displacement doesn't help my Warlock as much as it used to.

Is it still worth going elf for displacement?

I was wondering if going human for an extra feat and skill point plus being able to use the EP's spent in elf would be a better payoff? Not sure exactly what I would change but it would be nice to be able to fit in bastard sword or whatever if it was a good tradeoff. If not no biggie.

Jeoffree
02-28-2017, 04:14 PM
So with reaper I notice that Displacement doesn't help my Warlock as much as it used to.

Is it still worth going elf for displacement?

I was wondering if going human for an extra feat and skill point plus being able to use the EP's spent in elf would be a better payoff? Not sure exactly what I would change but it would be nice to be able to fit in bastard sword or whatever if it was a good tradeoff. If not no biggie.

I notice my hp starts to go down faster without displacement, so I think it is pretty important. Additionally I skipped powerattack and cleave and went completionist, kopesh, because I have kopeshes. I think human would still be solid with the extra feat though. But the elf also gives you arcane fluidity which helps casting in armor.

Propane
02-28-2017, 04:26 PM
with defense action boost I can hit 402 for 15 seconds that must have been what was missing.

Congratz!

Blastyswa
02-28-2017, 09:09 PM
I notice my hp starts to go down faster without displacement, so I think it is pretty important. Additionally I skipped powerattack and cleave and went completionist, kopesh, because I have kopeshes. I think human would still be solid with the extra feat though. But the elf also gives you arcane fluidity which helps casting in armor.

I think that for a dedicated main-toon with lots of resources I probably wouldn't go with elf, just because (Using Sterben or Dazling as the example here) I'd have so many displacement clickies that being able to get an extra feat by not having to take dragonmark of shadow, and being up another feat if going human. This could also free up some AP depending on what you went with; human with either 17 AP (3x hamp) 12 AP (2x hamp) or 3 AP (1x hamp) looks appealing, or half-elf 17 AP 4x hamp with monk dilettante and Diplomatic Grace for intense tanking while keeping arcane fluidity. There's also dwarf, with the options of going for +3 AC, +15% extra shield AC, dragonmark (Radiant Forcefield is solid), +3 tactics DC, or even going for +7% damage from the top tier if sticking with heavy armor.

Sehenry03
02-28-2017, 09:52 PM
I think that for a dedicated main-toon with lots of resources I probably wouldn't go with elf, just because (Using Sterben or Dazling as the example here) I'd have so many displacement clickies that being able to get an extra feat by not having to take dragonmark of shadow, and being up another feat if going human. This could also free up some AP depending on what you went with; human with either 17 AP (3x hamp) 12 AP (2x hamp) or 3 AP (1x hamp) looks appealing, or half-elf 17 AP 4x hamp with monk dilettante and Diplomatic Grace for intense tanking while keeping arcane fluidity. There's also dwarf, with the options of going for +3 AC, +15% extra shield AC, dragonmark (Radiant Forcefield is solid), +3 tactics DC, or even going for +7% damage from the top tier if sticking with heavy armor.

Well I was thinking of going human and throwing in some two handed fighting feats and bastard sword for a little more dps. i can easily get lots of displace clickies.

Jeoffree
03-03-2017, 12:06 PM
Well I was thinking of going human and throwing in some two handed fighting feats and bastard sword for a little more dps. i can easily get lots of displace clickies.

how do you get a bunch of displace clickies? Greensteel 1 min per?

Sehenry03
03-04-2017, 10:35 AM
Yeah. I got tons of mats in the bank and can make 10 of the displace clickies easy enough to cycle through. The worst part is the building of it lol.

PainStealer
03-07-2017, 07:04 PM
Hmm ... I'm thinking dragonborn. :P

http://i68.tinypic.com/2w559qg.png


Obviosly some optimization to be done ... but another 26 AC over the Elf version. Downside is I will be back to micromanaging displacement clickies.

Atheok
03-14-2017, 12:56 AM
Hmm ... I'm thinking dragonborn. :P



Have you tried dwarf?

DaveyCrockett
04-02-2017, 09:18 AM
Hmm ... I'm thinking dragonborn. :P


Obviosly some optimization to be done ... but another 26 AC over the Elf version. Downside is I will be back to micromanaging displacement clickies.

Did gear change or is it the SL/CC layout you last listed?

PainStealer
01-06-2018, 10:14 PM
Hmm ... not done yet tweaking augments and gear ... buy i thought a little update would be in order ... I havn't had the time lately to keep the build updated ... obviously a few changes have been made.



https://i.imgur.com/yb36A99.png

LouM3
01-07-2018, 09:52 AM
Hmm ... not done yet tweaking augments and gear ... buy i thought a little update would be in order ... I havn't had the time lately to keep the build updated ... obviously a few changes have been made.



https://i.imgur.com/yb36A99.png

That looks awesome! Can you post a break down ?

joebee
12-28-2018, 03:25 PM
At the time of this post - extend spell does not affect (double) the dragonmark displacement.