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FranOhmsford
06-08-2016, 03:23 PM
Tamilyn is 1st Life Lvl 25 {LD Maxed, Currently in Grandmaster}.

And as she's not one of mains I have no intention of TRing her and will likely go for Epic Lives instead.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b559/ChaseWolf/ScreenShot00015_zps20pguzid.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/ChaseWolf/media/ScreenShot00015_zps20pguzid.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b559/ChaseWolf/ScreenShot00016_zpsy00y1fik.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/ChaseWolf/media/ScreenShot00016_zpsy00y1fik.jpg.html)

Current Feats are:
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Augment Summoning, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Heavy Armour Champion, Imp. Crit: Bludgeon, Imp Crit Slash, Improved Shield Bash, Shield Mastery, Imp. Shield Mastery, Mobility, Shield Deflection, Skill Focus: Intim, Skill Focus: UMD, Spring Attack, Toughness, THF, Wpn Focus: Bludgeon.

Current Gear worn:
Drow Smoke Goggles
Purple Dragon Helm
Wis 7 Necklace of Nat. Armour 6
Pale Green Ioun Stone
Min Lvl 12 Cloak of Night
Epic Infested Armour
Staunch 8 Bracers of Dodge Bonus 10 {Dex 5 slotted}
Belt of Parrying 4 {Hidden SR 29}
Heroic Hard Ancient Band
Purple Dragon Gauntlets
Orcish Privateers Boots
Feather Falling Ring
Mornh
Heroic Templars Bulwark


Intimidate is 58
Balance is 27
Jump is 27
UMD is 22


Dodge is 11%, Dodge Cap is also 11%

FranOhmsford
06-11-2016, 05:56 AM
No replies?

Am I to assume that this build is actually good then?

Come on people - I need some help with Epic Gear {I know I need to make a Thunderforged Warhammer and upgrade Mornh} and possibly Feat rearrangements {Augment Summoning will go when I ER for certain and maybe THF and Imp. Crit: Slash too}.

I will be going into US asap but will probably have to at least do Shiradi and pop into Primal too to get Cocoon.

Therrias
06-11-2016, 06:11 AM
No replies?

Am I to assume that this build is actually good then?

Come on people - I need some help with Epic Gear {I know I need to make a Thunderforged Warhammer and upgrade Mornh} and possibly Feat rearrangements {Augment Summoning will go when I ER for certain and maybe THF and Imp. Crit: Slash too}.

I will be going into US asap but will probably have to at least do Shiradi and pop into Primal too to get Cocoon.

Sword and board isn't worth it without glancing blows.

OP, I'm not planning on it, but if I were to design a tank today, I would go pure dwarf fighter. Dwarven axe, dwarf fortress, max con, throw your weight around, vanguard, defender.

1 Shield mastery
1f Two Handed Fighting
2f Precision
3 Completionist
4f Improved Shield Bash
6 Improved Two Handed Fighting
6f Improved Shield Mastery
8 Improved Crit
9 Hvy Armor Training
10f Heavy Armor Combat
12 Greater Two Handed Fighting
12f Hvy Armor Master
14f Hvy Armor Champ
15 Weapon Focus
16f Weapon Spec
18 Greater Weapon Focus
18f Greater Weapon Spec
20f Superior Weapon Focus
21 Overwhelming Crit
24 Bulwark of Defense
26 Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic DR
28 Elusive Target
29 Deific Warding
30 Intensify Spell (This works on Cocoon and/or Renewal, right?)
30s Scion of Feywild

41 in Vanguard or Defender
19+ in Dwarf
rest in the other one (Defender/Vanguard)

You'll probably insist on staying human though, so use the extra feat on bastard sword prof and swap most of the racial AP so you have at least 11 in Kensei.

FranOhmsford
06-11-2016, 06:35 AM
Sword and board isn't worth it without glancing blows.

OP, I'm not planning on it, but if I were to design a tank today, I would go pure dwarf fighter. Dwarven axe, dwarf fortress, max con, throw your weight around, vanguard, defender.


You'll probably insist on staying human though, so use the extra feat on bastard sword prof and swap most of the racial AP so you have at least 11 in Kensei.


I asked for help with THIS Life {Specifically I want to do ERs rather than a TR} so changing Race is out of the question.

I do have other Stalwarts and Sacred Defenders.

This one has Mornh so I'm trying to stick with the Warhammer Flavour if at all possible.

I do massively prefer to stay the same race through every incarnation for the simple fact that it's one of the few things left in DDO that CAN stay the same even though Iconic is annoying me - I can work around Shadar-Kai and PDK but the other 3 I may not even do lives of on this character.

I do have a Dwarf Fighter who's currently a G-Axe Kensai and on his Pally lives will probably be KotC because he uses G-Axes.


I realise that I may not have the optimal build for a Stalwart here but I want help optimising what I've got - Mainly with Gear as with all the new RNG and Named Loot I'm lost with trying to work out set-ups during Epic Levels {Say Lvl 20, 23, 25, 27 and 30} that don't leave me missing something obvious. {Most importantly I want to be able to get rid of loot in my Inventory that I won't actually use but don't know what is worth keeping just in case.}.

I realise also that my Feat list on this character is strange but I don't see anything obviously missing other than perhaps more PRR from Heavy Armour Feats {Augment Summoning will be swapped out for one of them}.

I tend to Cleave/Great Cleave anyway and the THF line as far as I know doesn't work with Cleaves.

I don't think the 11 ap from Human would get me far enough into Kensai and as a S+B user I'd be losing AC from Icon Enhancement Shield Mastery.png Shield Mastery: +5%/10%/15% Shield Armor Class and +1/2/3 Tower Shield Maximum Dexterity Bonus.
I'd also be losing Heal Amp, Saves boost for getting through traps and +1 Con.

cru121
06-11-2016, 07:36 AM
dunno about optimal AP split. probably less human and 11 AP into kensai for 3rd core
feats: the dodge/mobility/spring attack should probably go. magical training is an option once you get cocoon

deadly item!
sheltering item!
epic normal Wall of Wood for stacking heal amp (and devotion once you pick up cocoon)
if you're using PDK helm and gloves, the armor is probably also worth considering, for the set bonus.

FranOhmsford
06-11-2016, 07:49 AM
dunno about optimal AP split. probably less human and 11 AP into kensai for 3rd core
feats: the dodge/mobility/spring attack should probably go. magical training is an option once you get cocoon

I like Spring Attack and if I didn't need Dodge and Mobility to get to it I wouldn't have either.

Magical Training is something I might look into once I get Cocoon yes. {it depends how I do with just the SP from gear}.

I've only spent 11 total in Human and I see the Heal Amp and S+B Enhancements as being mandatory - Is there any other way I could get to Strike with no Thought {Maybe by losing some in Vanguard and Stalwart}?


deadly item!

Yes but where to slot it?

If the Devs would just add a Topaz of Deadly!


sheltering item!

I thought I had a sheltering item or at least some slotted - Again the problem is how to slot it without losing something else.


epic normal Wall of Wood for stacking heal amp (and devotion once you pick up cocoon)

Would it be better to look for the EH version?

I swapped in http://ddowiki.com/page/Purple_Dragon_Shield once I took Lvl 26.

I vendored the Heroic Templar's Bulwark and am looking for a decent Min Lvl 18-20 Tower Shield if there is such a thing?


you're using PDK helm and gloves, the armor is probably also worth considering, for the set bonus.

Yes I know but having made the Epic Infested I wanted to wear it at least for a while.

Armour wise I'm more interested in which armours to go for at say 25, 28 and 30?

cru121
06-11-2016, 11:22 AM
You have both ring slots essentially free, easy to slot for example the ML19 Sheltering ring from heroic WGU end reward, and Ring of Prowess or random deadly ring.

The heal amp of EH/EE version of wall of wood does not stack with PDK gauntlets. The epic normal / heroic elite version does stack. (The heroic normal/hard does stack as well, but type of heal amp can be easily gotten elsewhere - notably mysterious cloak/bracers).

As for good late heroic tower shields, I guess Demonic Slab is pretty potent.

FranOhmsford
06-11-2016, 11:33 AM
You have both ring slots essentially free, easy to slot for example the ML19 Sheltering ring from heroic WGU end reward, and Ring of Prowess or random deadly ring.

Ring of Prowess/Leg Ring of Prowess I'd definitely wear and I didn't know of it's existence - This is why I posted this thread.


The heal amp of EH/EE version of wall of wood does not stack with PDK gauntlets. The epic normal / heroic elite version does stack. (The heroic normal/hard does stack as well, but type of heal amp can be easily gotten elsewhere - notably mysterious cloak/bracers).

What's the WAI Status of this stacking?

Are EH and EE supposed to stack or is EN the one that's broken?


As for good late heroic tower shields, I guess Demonic Slab is pretty potent.

Demonic Slab is nice but I'm not sure it beats The Purple Dragon Shield.

Having both available would be nice however so I can use the one that fits my current set up better.

unbongwah
06-11-2016, 12:20 PM
What's the WAI Status of this stacking?

Are EH and EE supposed to stack or is EN the one that's broken?
Heal amp items only stack if they provide different bonuses. So PD gloves or Iron Mitts (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Iron_Mitts) (+60 amp) will stack with EN WoW (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Wall_of_Wood_%28Level_22%29) (+40) but not EH/EE WoW, since they are both +60.

Jetrule
06-11-2016, 12:46 PM
Try pulling entirely out of vanguard there are better defenses and offences in Kensai. Just due to the caped once per second shield attack. Go cookie cutter on your action boosts. Human should have the damage boost and kensai haste or if you stay vanguard melee power. The potion drinking buff being the only self healing available to you is a must grab from kensai. If you find you like this better consider going kensai heavy. 41 a.p. for the capstone. 30 a.p. stalwart and 9 for human.

Your self healing is going to be weak I think thats why you have augment summons. To really tank up go for the Healers bounty shield. http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Shield_of_Tireless_Aid.

Your hitpoints are your cost for dealing damage on a fighter. get as many as you can. Lions mane necklace, red dragon scale trinket, Best con belt or ring you can find on a.h.

In general I dont worry about maximizing gear from levels 20-27. I will put on the best I have available or reasonable at auction house not worrying super much about small percentage differences or temporary redundancies. Lvl 28 some serious gear re ordering is needed. especially since the latest few updates. This assumes you have some of those very nice bta items from the updates. If not your pure fighter solo with a hire isn't the character to try and efficiently farm them up. EE is the setting they drop in with any kind of regularity and your fighter will need to be grouped. Self healing is weak on a fighter in the best case, and under geared and weak on destinies/pastlife it is to steep a hill too overcome in a e.e. solo gear farm. If this is one of your canith characters send me a msg we can try to hook up for some ee crushings to get named gear drops.

FranOhmsford
06-11-2016, 01:00 PM
So I've gotta farm Subversion for Lion's Mane and Good Intentions for Ring of Prowess.

I guess the chances of these dropping on LN are pretty low right?

FranOhmsford
06-13-2016, 05:02 PM
So I've gotta farm Subversion for Lion's Mane and Good Intentions for Ring of Prowess.

I guess the chances of these dropping on LN are pretty low right?

Managed to get Heroic Lion's Mane.

Still looking for Epic Lion's Mane and Heroic+Epic Ring of Prowess.

Robbenklopper
06-14-2016, 08:06 PM
Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
(20 Fighter)
Hit Points: 419
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 20/20/25/30/30
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 9
Will: 5

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 17 26 28
Dexterity 12 16 16
Constitution 17 21 27
Intelligence 12 14 14
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 8 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7


Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Shield Mastery

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge

Level 5 (Fighter)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow

Level 7 (Fighter)

Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery

Level 11 (Fighter)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Fighter)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Heavy Armor Master

Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Seleected) Heavy Armor Champion

Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash

Level 17 (Fighter)

Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Selected) Tacticle Master

Level 19 (Fighter)

Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Tacticle Supremacy

Human 3 AP
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)

Kensei 4 AP
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)

SD 42 AP
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Overbalance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stand Fast (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Defensive Sweep (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Last Stand (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Shield Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Shield Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Shield Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Armor Expertise (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Armor Expertise (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Armor Expertise (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Expertise (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Expertise (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Expertise (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Shield (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defendder (Ftr) - Reinforced Shield (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defendder (Ftr) - Reprisal (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defendder (Ftr) - Reprisal (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defendder (Ftr) - Reprisal (Rank 3)

VG 31 AP
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - To the Fore! (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Combat (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vicious Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Combat II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vicious Shield II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Smash (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Smash (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Smash (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Follow Up (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Follow Up (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Follow Up (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Fatal Bulwark (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vanguard Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vanguard Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vanguard Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Charge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Charge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Charge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Myrmidon's Edge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Myrmidon's Edge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Myrmidon's Edge (Rank 3)

You have reliable stuns, Doublestrike, high attack speed, good PRR/MRR, High AC and HP and can do EE. These will raise with levels and gear.
This is just my concept-build up to LVL20. OC at 21 and there you go, if you like epic level recommends, tell.
Twists are up to you, but take Cocoon, Legendary Shield Mastery and Momentum Swing while you´re in GmoF.
I wear Bastard Sword/ Longsword, but change for you weapon of choice at IC, weap foc and specialisations.

My toon is currently LVL21 and has more 2nd/3rd hand gear like you see and a lot improvable, but i have all i need.

Google: Deadly / Accuracy
Helm: PDK
Neck: Jorgundals Collar / heroic elite
Trinket: Sustaining symbiont
cloak: Epic Phiarlan Mirror cloak / heal +10 Diamond
blet: epic spare hand / +12 sapphire of defense
Ring1: Epic Ring of the stalker / topaz power 150
Gloves: PDK
Boots: Cannith Propulsion
Ring2: Epic Buccaneer / +6 Resistance
Bracers: Bracers of the sun
Armor: PDK

FranOhmsford
06-14-2016, 08:45 PM
See above post as link is HUUUGE

I only take Dodge and Mobility for Spring Attack - Your build doesn't fit in Spring Attack so as far as I can tell the pre-reqs are pointless.

Only Destiny I've maxed so far is LD, I'm in GMoF to get to US, I haven't even touched Primal yet so no Cocoon and only 1 fate slot opened. {Shiradi will be a pain too}.

Not planning on TRing so 34 point build not available - I can do the rest of the respec with an ER. {If I do TR it will be after an ER too so you can add probably Doublestrike Past Life.}.


Otherwise looks good :)

Robbenklopper
06-15-2016, 02:56 AM
I only take Dodge and Mobility for Spring Attack - Your build doesn't fit in Spring Attack so as far as I can tell the pre-reqs are pointless.

Only Destiny I've maxed so far is LD, I'm in GMoF to get to US, I haven't even touched Primal yet so no Cocoon and only 1 fate slot opened. {Shiradi will be a pain too}.

Not planning on TRing so 34 point build not available - I can do the rest of the respec with an ER. {If I do TR it will be after an ER too so you can add probably Doublestrike Past Life.}.


Otherwise looks good :)

Morning Fran,
sorry, i can´t implement screenshots and had to paste in from the character planner (which was not really up to date for AP costs in enhancements, so i edited by Hand).

I had spring attack before, until i came to the conclusion it´s pointless to take. In heroic Levels, it might get you better hits, but think about how much the lesser dodge and Penalty to your attack Bonus really effect your toon if you don´t have and and scale against for what you gain for the extra feat when having more prr / DC whatsoever.

Get as fast as possible to cocoon, it´s really worth and the Basic healing for about everyone, but it means a grind to get there unlocking the spheres yeah...

FranOhmsford
06-15-2016, 08:48 AM
I had spring attack before, until i came to the conclusion it´s pointless to take. In heroic Levels, it might get you better hits, but think about how much the lesser dodge and Penalty to your attack Bonus really effect your toon if you don´t have and and scale against for what you gain for the extra feat when having more prr / DC whatsoever.

You missed my point.

The only reason I had to take Dodge and Mobility was to get to Spring Attack.

Without Spring Attack I don't need either of the Pre-Reqs yet you have those on your list.

So why do you take Dodge and Mobility if you're not taking Spring Attack - S+B, Heavy Armour = Very low Dodge Cap anyway.


Get as fast as possible to cocoon, it´s really worth and the Basic healing for about everyone, but it means a grind to get there unlocking the spheres yeah...

Yep - I'd love to get straight to Cocoon but getting US maxed is more important to me - Cocoon will be next on my list after that.

Robbenklopper
06-17-2016, 06:14 AM
[QUOTE=FranOhmsford;5837182]You missed my point.

The only reason I had to take Dodge and Mobility was to get to Spring Attack.

Without Spring Attack I don't need either of the Pre-Reqs yet you have those on your list.

So why do you take Dodge and Mobility if you're not taking Spring Attack - S+B, Heavy Armour = Very low Dodge Cap anyway. QUOTE]

Dodge & Mobility for the increase of maximum dexterity bonus permitted by armor and tower shields by 2 (and 2% dodge). These allow me 10% dodge in HArmor, while i felt 12% dodge with spring attack didn´t make a difference. It IS low, but 1 miss in 10 is something.