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adrian69
05-09-2016, 09:00 PM
Jeezus, I am suprized one has dropped some new builds on forums for fighters.

Anyone playing around with ideas? I'd loved to hear them.

12 ftr/6 ranger/2 x

12 ranger 6 ftr 2x

Cetus revamp

Anyway, you get the idea.

Anyone want to share their secret blueprints?

the_one_dwarfforged
05-09-2016, 11:34 PM
i think human 12/6/2 ftr/mnk/pal is going to be really good dps. it wont be able to survive legendary well enough for it to be worth it though. at least not how i would play it. plus im not even sure itll be better dps than pure after all, because pure will have more dstrike, a (hopefully) not ****** one cut, and more action boosts. plus i dont think based on my lamma experiences that even with a perfectly optimized gear set up the 12/6/2 will actually be far ahead, if at all, in str, but will lack the kta of the pure.

6 fighter is now the entirety of my tr template. so as far as that goes, turbine did a good job making tring really easy for me. too bad i hardly need or want any more heroic past lives.

15/5 pal/ftr is going to replace all other thf/swf paladin builds.

20 fighter should be enough dps and survivable enough that it will be at least decent in legendary. this is what i will be playing. i do like the fact that power surge gives you the bonus to all stats actually, in fact i like it a lot. its basically like raging with tenacious d stance. totes amazeballs. also the double strike is going to passively be higher than 60%, thats great for single target dps. one cut is potentially going to make fighter burst actually really easy and really insane.

i dont think any ftr/rgr combo works, because both are all about the t5s, capstones, and competence bonus, all of which are mutually exclusive or dont stack.

i think fighter vanguard builds will perhaps be better now, but tighter on ap due to grabbing vg cap and ks t5s.

i am unsure whether or not monkchers will start using kensei, as i doubt +20 rp is better than slayer arrow+sniper shot. although perhaps you could do 8/6/6 and have 20 pr and sniper shot, but then you lose 20 or 40 or whatever % it is double shot...i figure if there are anymore dps gains from t5 kensei, it will be small. idk though.


this is the fighter build i will be using:

pure human fighter build
Fighter 20
True Neutral Human


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 18. . . .+6. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . .8. . . .+5. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 16. . . .+5. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 16. . . .+5. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+5. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+5. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Intim . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Concent . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Heal. . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Search. . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Spot. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 3. 11
Balance . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
UMD . . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Swim. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . 1
Tumble. . . . . . . . . . . ½. ½. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .24. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Human. : Cleave
.1 Fighter: Stunning Blow
.2 Fighter: Two Handed Fighting
.3. . . . : Completionist
.4 Fighter: Great Cleave
.6. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
.6 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing
.8 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
.9. . . . : Weapon Specialization: Slashing
10 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
12. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
12 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
14 Fighter: Quick Draw
15. . . . : Improved Sunder
16 Fighter: Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing
18. . . . : Heavy Armor Champion
18 Fighter: Heavy Armor Master
20 Fighter: Heavy Armor Combatant
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Precision
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
29 Destiny: Deific Warding
30 Epic . : Blinding Speed
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Enhancements (80 AP)

Kensei (41 AP)
Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge, One Cut, Alacrity
Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
Weapon Group Specialization, Ascetic Training: Conditioning I
Critical Mastery III, Weapon Group Specialization, Shattering Strike III, Strength
Weapon Group Specialization, Strike at the Heart, Strength
A Good Death: Melee, Weapon Master, One with the Blade, Deadly Strike, Keen Edge

Stalwart Defender (23 AP)
Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance
Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery III
Resilient Defense III, Instinctive Defense III
Strong Defense III, Strength
Tenacious Defense III

Harper Agent (11 AP)
Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles III

Human (5 AP)
Damage Boost, Strength
Improved Recovery


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought
Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack, Damage Boost III
Lay Waste, Critical Damage III
(none)
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz

Twists of Fate (27 fate points)
Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
Hail of Blows (Tier 2 Flowers)
Purge the Wicked (Tier 1 Crusader)
Primal Scream (Tier 1 Fury)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)



dont tell anyone though. obviously the broken synergies are complicated to produce and must be kept a hidden knowledge amongst the ddo elite. no seriously though, this is barely more complicated than a barbarian.

gear:

head: mythic emerald gaze
goggles: mentaus
neck: warriors focus
trinket: litany
cloak: remnant cloak / lgs hp cloak
armor: heavy avenger
belt: animated rope
bracers: 14 str 12 con rng
gloves: x dstrike x hamp rng (i need to get better ones atm...)
ring: epic eye of the beholder
swap ring: of prowess
boots: knife toes

adrian69
05-09-2016, 11:56 PM
That was almost how I built the pure fighter, but I am tired of pure builds and I want to MC for once. I did a Kensei ranger thing, stuck with Kensei, though I actually think Tier 5 ranger is better, but I wanted to try something new. I am posting my work on a different thread, not as much as posting a build, but to encourage more talk, etc.

Haphazarduk
05-11-2016, 02:48 PM
I know it's not de riguer to post without a full build and I got no feedback from a recent post in custom builds but I like the idea of 12/5/3 Ftr/ranger/monk. I understand it won't be as effective as a pure ranger or possibly even fighter now but I like the idea of the psi onus bonus to all stats and what that might do for stacking stat bonuses.

I think you could get an effective Dex/Int or str/Int build with Harper to get some good ranged effectiveness with ahutiken/bow whilst keeping a decent melee capability with twf.

Healing seems an issue though so be interested to hear thoughts on how to keep defence/healing at a decent level.

Hap

the_one_dwarfforged
05-11-2016, 03:59 PM
I know it's not de riguer to post without a full build and I got no feedback from a recent post in custom builds but I like the idea of 12/5/3 Ftr/ranger/monk. I understand it won't be as effective as a pure ranger or possibly even fighter now but I like the idea of the psi onus bonus to all stats and what that might do for stacking stat bonuses.

I think you could get an effective Dex/Int or str/Int build with Harper to get some good ranged effectiveness with ahutiken/bow whilst keeping a decent melee capability with twf.

Healing seems an issue though so be interested to hear thoughts on how to keep defence/healing at a decent level.

Hap

why bother with 5/3? if you want both melee and ranged, 6 ranger definitely makes a lot more sense to me. the only thing i really see the 3rd level of monk adding is 5% runspeed...

Haphazarduk
05-11-2016, 04:31 PM
why bother with 5/3? if you want both melee and ranged, 6 ranger definitely makes a lot more sense to me. the only thing i really see the 3rd level of monk adding is 5% runspeed...
Double shuriken expertise with stacking Dex, Int and wis bonus. Not perfect but interesting. In no armour it all adds to AC (fwtw) and other abilities. Dex to damage on t5 Kensai as another option (probably not a good one).


Like I say, not sure about this. Could be **** but worth some consideration?

Hap

the_one_dwarfforged
05-12-2016, 12:56 AM
Double shuriken expertise with stacking Dex, Int and wis bonus. Not perfect but interesting. In no armour it all adds to AC (fwtw) and other abilities. Dex to damage on t5 Kensai as another option (probably not a good one).


Like I say, not sure about this. Could be **** but worth some consideration?

Hap

oh, when i read ranged + melee i immediately went to bows/manyshot...shurikens and whatnot dont exist in my imaginary world :p

the_one_dwarfforged
05-12-2016, 01:23 AM
also after looking into how i would make a fighter vg work...i dont think they are much better honestly, not nearly enough ap. 1 point human, 23 points std, 41 points vg, 8 points harper is already 73 points. that leaves...7 for kensei...so at that point you are sacrificing kta and either +6 str or +20% hp for 18 points to pick up power surge and strike with no thought, but are still missing the t5s of kensei.

i guess if you are serious about tanking then dropping kta and strong defense is the way to go, and you can leverage fighter feats and swnt to make bastard swords your best option, and power surge will recover the loss of strong defense but make your hps uber with tenacious d.

i dislike the amount of sacrifices such a build is making though, and i think pure fighter is going to have enough defensive stats to be a really solid tank as just a kensei build (hp roughly in the barb range, almost 200 prr without blitz active and 0 stacks of deific warding on a thf build).

Marshal_Lannes
05-12-2016, 02:41 AM
Since they did not add in self healing I am not sure what Fighters have gained except more DPS. At first glance I am a bit disappointed in the update, looks like just a buff to DPS power which I guess is cool if you just had to have a Fighter Icon in group but I don't see how this plays any differently than any of the other current cleaving melee classes.

Haphazarduk
05-12-2016, 07:15 AM
Yeah it does feel like there was a lack of imagination in the update. Most of what's there seems to be easy static bonus increases. I guess those are easy from a resource/testing perspective. Hopefully the new tier4 abilities will be a little more interesting but was hoping for a decent t5 heal and something else lower down.

Hap

SpiritofAlba
05-12-2016, 07:45 AM
I had been wondering about next life as mainly paladin, strength based but also high charisma, using a FS splash to enable regular DM boosts to strength. Plus strength / charisma boosts from human enhancement tree stacking on top.

Now wondering about something like 12 F / 7 Pal / 1 FS. Would lose some of the nice higher level pal benefits, but guess that power surge would give effectively plus 12 strength if done while under influence of DM. Which sounds fun. Particularly if can also stack with six more from sacred defense.

This is all lazy speculation. Would need more thought and testing.

adrian69
05-12-2016, 10:58 AM
I had been wondering about next life as mainly paladin, strength based but also high charisma, using a FS splash to enable regular DM boosts to strength. Plus strength / charisma boosts from human enhancement tree stacking on top.

Now wondering about something like 12 F / 7 Pal / 1 FS. Would lose some of the nice higher level pal benefits, but guess that power surge would give effectively plus 12 strength if done while under influence of DM. Which sounds fun. Particularly if can also stack with six more from sacred defense.

This is all lazy speculation. Would need more thought and testing.

I tried 12 ftr 7 ranger 1 fvs and hated it so much I switched to diffrent build the next day. However, with DM and Power Surge I was hitting 70 str easy at 19. Paladin may be better though and more survivable. a

BigErkyKid
05-12-2016, 01:55 PM
also after looking into how i would make a fighter vg work...i dont think they are much better honestly, not nearly enough ap. .

It just doesn't work well compared to paladin. The only think you got going are the extra feats for tactics, which could be needed in the highest content. Other than that the APs are not nearly enough. The reason of course is that it MUST have the vanguard capstone. Without the capstone (which is probably not WAI), the vanguard is a mediocre SWF specialist with a bit more PRR.

I remember trying Demon assault EE on two fighters when it came out. My THF pure kensei did WAY better than a vanguard build. Now the vanguard build has received very little in terms of buffs, whereas the THF has had a very respectable DPS increase. So of course one can still play a vanguard fighter, but it is under the explicit understanding that you are a flavor build.

adrian69
05-12-2016, 01:58 PM
Since they did not add in self healing I am not sure what Fighters have gained except more DPS. At first glance I am a bit disappointed in the update, looks like just a buff to DPS power which I guess is cool if you just had to have a Fighter Icon in group but I don't see how this plays any differently than any of the other current cleaving melee classes.


Yeah it does feel like there was a lack of imagination in the update. Most of what's there seems to be easy static bonus increases. I guess those are easy from a resource/testing perspective. Hopefully the new tier4 abilities will be a little more interesting but was hoping for a decent t5 heal and something else lower down.

Hap

Yeah, the way they set is up is you're either 6, 18, or 20 Ftr. Power Surge doesn't make that big of a difference imo, except at longer/boss fights.

I feel yuck about it. I LR+20+3 into a 12/6/2 like variant and LR+20 back to Barbarian the next day.


Just based on the 15 hours I played it, this is how I see what Kensei should have been. (I typed this once, got to tier 5s and, FML, my computer decided to restart, so it may not be as detailed as I intend to redo it). Keep in mind these are all merely suggestions of what I think Kensei needs as a stand alone DPS tree and I know that it hard to do due to making MCing to strong, but I tried to keep that in mind as I came up with these ideas.

Core:

I changed core 2's from vorpal to critical, but lowered the expiration timer. This would put in on par with Tempest's Growing Storm
I increased core 3's Doublestrike by 1 percent. Not a big change in the scope of the game now.
I added another crit multiplier to core 5. This would allow pure and almost pure fighters to keep up without having a healing option, which I did add in Tier 5.
I think the capstone is still pathetic, it's ok, but I think a pure fighter lives on action boosts. LD gives them a way to lower the CD, but other than holding an orb their is no way to recharge them. This is fair I think. When I hear alacrity, I think speed. No reason for them not to gain 5% attack speed due when pure. The reset CD stuff is just a cool little bonus since it seems that fighters need to rely on it now, but I think that the chance is just so small to just provide the right opportunity for this now to be OP.

Tier 1
I switched Tactics with Action Boosts and increased them for their price. Only fighters and Dire Chargers worry about Big DCs, since stunning shield is really good anyway, and Stunning Blow just needs an update. Anyway, reduced Exotic Weapon Mastery to 1 AP. 2 feels like a punishment since most builds will need to take the feat to hit anyway

Tier 2. Allows figthers to have +2 more ABs than any other class for double the cost. If it were a tier 3, I'd suggest cutting the price down to 1 AP, but it's not. I also felt like this would keep player from just splashing fighter for the ABs by moving it to T2. Added 1/2/3 Stacking PRR/MRR (Plus 3 Total each) to make this more worth it. Obtaining Max dodge for many builds isn't hard anymore unless Min Dodge Cap will be increased. Added the Fleet of Foot Ability to allow for a speed option.

Tier 3. I improved Shattering Stirke even further by allowing it to inflict -10 MRR/PRR on Confirmed Vorpals. I also changed +stats to +1 of any ability score in tier 3 and 4. This would allow for a better variety of building since cores already give up +10 stats pure. I believe it thematically makes since for this change at least.

Tier 4. I got rid of the new tier 4 Strike to the Heart and added it in to Weapon Specialization 4 (Destruction) and 5 (Improved Destruction). The ability was just an increase of 7 damage per swing against training dummies at 15 stacks when I tested on release. Good in heroics, epics ok. Added a Multiselector ability based on MCing more than on focus I guess. Those are just ideas of what I would have liked to have seen and I feel like they make sense. The Kensei is a student of fighting. It could be skinned similar to Helf Dilly. Lastly, I pulled Deadly Strike down a tier.

Tier 5. Weapon's Master gets Improved Destruction back and it's now based on your focus weapons, sorry. The Coup De Grace of the tier 5s is the new skill Tradition. Tradition has Weapon's Master as a prerequsite and is a multiselector ability that allows the player to choose between survivablity and a raw high boost of damage for a very short period of time. I tried to be creative and played on the calculator with it a little bit. Serenity of the Old Masters should be like short term vigor with how it is set up, while Way of the Kensei allows for what should be close to a swash bucklers ability to crit 1/3 of the time, but triggers mostly on longer fights and for a short period.

http://http://ddowiki.com/page/Kensei_enhancements


Core:
1. Same
2. Spiritual Bond: When you have a weapon equipped in your main hand that is part of your Focus, it gains On Critical: If this weapon has fewer stacks of Battle Meditation than the number of Kensei Core Abilities you possess, it gains one stack of Battle Meditation: This weapon gains a +1 Insight bonus to Enhancement bonus for 12 seconds. This stacks up to 10 times. On timer expiration, 1 stack of Meditative Focus is removed at a time.
3. Strike With No Thought: Passive: Your weapons gain +1 to Critical Damage Multiplier. When you have a melee weapon equipped in your main hand that is part of your Focus, you gain 2% Doublestrike or 2% Doubleshot (depending on whether your Focus is melee or ranged). Each additional Core Ability you acquire from this tree increases this bonus by 1%.
4. Same
5. One Cut: Focus Action Boost: Your currently equipped weapons that are part of your Focus gain the Vorpal ability for 60 seconds. Passive: Your weapons gain an additional +1 to Critical Damage Multiplier as long as they are part of your focus. This bonus doe not stack with Monk's Earth Stance.
6. Alacrity:

+2 to all ability scores
+15% Doublestrike
+15% Doubleshot
+4 Action Boost uses
+2 to the DCs of all Tactical Feats
Weapon's that are part of your focus have a 5% chance on vorpal to recharge 1 stack of action boost and reset the cool down of Deadly Stirke and A Good Death.
+5% Unique Bonus to Attack Speed with Focus Weapons:

Tier 1

Tactics: +1/2/4 to the DC's of your Tactical abilities 2 AP/3 Ranks
Weapon Group Specialization: Same
Exotic Weapon Mastery: Reduce to 1 AP
Action Boost: Same
Reed in the Wind: Same


Tier 2

Extra Action Boost: You can 1/3/5 Extra Action Boost: 2 AP/3 Ranks
Weapon Group Specialization: Same
Improved Reaction: +1/2/3 Dodge/PRR/MRR: 3 AP/3 Ranks
Fleet of Foot: While under the affects of an action boosts, fighters move 1% faster per fighter level. 2 AP/1 Rank
Ascetic Training: Same


Tier 3

Critical Mastery: Same
Weapon Group Specialization: Same
Athletic Mastery: Same
Shattering Strike: Select a melee or ranged special attack that deals extra damage and reduces an opponent's fortification by 15%. On Vorpal: Reduce Target's PRR and MRR by 9 for 12 Seconds.
Ability Score: +1 to an ability score. 2 AP/1 Rank

Tier 4

Deadly Strike: Select a melee or ranged special attack that is automatically considered a critical threat if it hits.
Weapon Group Specialization: You gain +1 to hit and +2 damage with one handed weapons, bows and repeating crossbows. You gain +1 to hit and +4 damage with two handed weapons and non-repeating crossbows. These bonuses only apply to weapons in your focus group. In addition, your rigorous training has allowed you to attack with devastating accuracy and your weapons gain Destruction.
Multi Selector: Prerequisite: Weapon Group Specialization 4/2 AP/1 Rank

You have traveled, trained and fought alongside martial and ranged masters from across many worlds: Choose One:

Path of the Shadows: You gain +5 to hide and move silent skills, 2d6 sneak attack die and +3 to hit while flanking.
Warrior of the Silver Flame: You gain +5 to your heal and concentration skills, your attacks 2d6 light damage.
Sniper of the Old Great Tree: You gain +5 to hide and move silent skills, +5 Meters with Ranged Sneak Attack and 2d6 Sneak Attack
The North Remembers: +5 to you perform and +15 Sonic Spell Power, Your weapons and attacks gain 1d10 cold damage. In addition, you gain +1 to hit and damage when you Inspire Courage.
Eldritch Apprentice: You Gain +5 Spell Power and +10 Force Spell Power, In addition, you gain 6 Universal Spell Power and your weapons deal 1d8 Force Damage.
Rage of the Seren: You Gain +5 Intimidate and Listen, your weapons gain 1d6 chaotic damage, +1 stacking DR/, +2 Rages per day or an additional +2 strength and constitution when raging.
Sworn Justice of the Faith: +5 Heal and +1 use of Lay on Hands. You're weapons gain 1d4 light and 1d4 law damage. You gain a +2 bonus to charisma.
The Artifact Collector: +2 to your caster level when using Wands, Scrolls, and Magical Items and +1 UMD. +5 Ranged Power and +15% chance not to consume ranged missiles on use.

Ability Score: +1 to an ability score. 2 AP/1 Rank

Tier 5

A Good Death: Same
Weapon Master: Weapon Master: +3 to hit and damage with all weapons. You have learned to strike at the heart of your opponents and your weapons now gain the trait Improved Destruction
Tradition: Multi Selector: Prerequisite: Weapon Master/2 AP/1 Rank

You have learned the secrets of ancient Kensei masters.

Serenity of the Wise Master: On Vorpal: You have a 5% chance to gain Healing/Repair/Negative Energy Amplification equal to 1/4 your PRR+fighter level for the next 30 seconds. In addition, your focus weapons attacks heal you for 1% of damage dealt. This scales with Healing/Repair/Negative Amplification and 100% Melee or Ranged Power depending on your focus.

On Vorpal: You have a small chance to double your focus weapon's Threat Range and [W] Die for 10 seconds.


One With The Blade: Same
Keen Edge: Same

the_one_dwarfforged
05-12-2016, 03:45 PM
Now wondering about something like 12 F / 7 Pal / 1 FS. Would lose some of the nice higher level pal benefits, but guess that power surge would give effectively plus 12 strength if done while under influence of DM. Which sounds fun. Particularly if can also stack with six more from sacred defense.

why in the world would you put 7 paladin and 1 fvs on the same build? you only need one for dm. and why 7 paladin? you only need two for dm and dg, i see no reason to go higher than that on a fighter build. fighter gives you access to pretty much the same stance.

the way i see it, leveraging power surge for dm isnt a practical thing to do, because there arent any heavy armor build which can also get the +6 str from stance and not suck, while a 12/6/2 ftr/mnk/pal will have good dps but not really be at much of a str advantage and be too squishy for legendary.

leveraging power surge for kta and hps is the best use of it imo.


Yeah, the way they set is up is you're either 6, 18, or 20 Ftr.

why 18? 18 is an idiotic stop point for fighter levels and has been since keen edge no longer required 18 fighter. id say 1-4 for splashes, 5 for paladin, 6ish for other past life builds, 12 for fighter mc, and pure for an actual fighter obviously. the power is entirely at levels 5/6/12/20. 18 fighter is even worse than 12 fighter with some less than synergistic levels of some other class.

also, theory crafting an interesting kensei tree has been done to death, and is certainly not going to affect anything now...

adrian69
05-12-2016, 08:40 PM
why in the world would you put 7 paladin and 1 fvs on the same build? you only need one for dm. and why 7 paladin? you only need two for dm and dg, i see no reason to go higher than that on a fighter build. fighter gives you access to pretty much the same stance.

the way i see it, leveraging power surge for dm isnt a practical thing to do, because there arent any heavy armor build which can also get the +6 str from stance and not suck, while a 12/6/2 ftr/mnk/pal will have good dps but not really be at much of a str advantage and be too squishy for legendary.

leveraging power surge for kta and hps is the best use of it imo.



why 18? 18 is an idiotic stop point for fighter levels and has been since keen edge no longer required 18 fighter. id say 1-4 for splashes, 5 for paladin, 6ish for other past life builds, 12 for fighter mc, and pure for an actual fighter obviously. the power is entirely at levels 5/6/12/20. 18 fighter is even worse than 12 fighter with some less than synergistic levels of some other class.



also, theory crafting an interesting kensei tree has been done to death, and is certainly not going to affect anything now...

Some will want to go 18 for reasons I am sure. One Cut isn't that bad of an ability, and it doesn't give weapon's Keen Edge, but Vorpal. Auto kill on non boss on a roll of 20.

You still need 8 fighter to take Weapon Spec 4 and Weapon's Master, if you plan on taking that line, as weapon spec 4 still requires Greater Weapon Focus.

Not sure why anyone would go for Strong Defense for 3 damage these days when Tenacious Defense is better for 20% max health. There's enough ways to boost strength and damage in game.

Theorycrafting is just that. It's theory. It doesn't have to be interesting or appealing or capable because it is the about discussion. There is not one build out there anyone can theory that will be new and interesting. Everything has been done. Class revamps just mean we get a fresh look at it.

the_one_dwarfforged
05-12-2016, 11:51 PM
Some will want to go 18 for reasons I am sure. One Cut isn't that bad of an ability, and it doesn't give weapon's Keen Edge, but Vorpal. Auto kill on non boss on a roll of 20.

You still need 8 fighter to take Weapon Spec 4 and Weapon's Master, if you plan on taking that line, as weapon spec 4 still requires Greater Weapon Focus.

Not sure why anyone would go for Strong Defense for 3 damage these days when Tenacious Defense is better for 20% max health. There's enough ways to boost strength and damage in game.

Theorycrafting is just that. It's theory. It doesn't have to be interesting or appealing or capable because it is the about discussion. There is not one build out there anyone can theory that will be new and interesting. Everything has been done. Class revamps just mean we get a fresh look at it.

one cut is horrible. if it wasnt on the same timer as haste boost, i would go so far as to say it wasnt even completely useless because itd basically be +5 dmg. but it is on the same timer as haste, and its definitely not going to instakill anything, except maybe at level 18, in which case splashing 2 levels of something else is again pointless.

i think 8 will be used for tr builds of other classes, but i think its not going to be as common as 6. its 2 class levels for about 5 or so dmg and 2 mp.

personally i go with both strong defense and tenacious defense. the +20% is probably overall better by a solid margin, but i personally think strong d is still very worth having, and its not just +3 dmg. its +3 to hit, +3(mp) dmg, +3 tac dcs, +3 to resist knockdowns. and +whatever carryweight and +3 swim, which are probably the most important things (actually swim is kinda good).

theorycrafting a new tree that has no basis in reality and is not going to be read by a dev and never going to be implemented is kinda pointless. the theory crafting of builds based on what actually exists, that is not pointless. entirely. because youre right, there are no new or interesting builds.

Marshal_Lannes
05-13-2016, 12:49 AM
For me it boils down to this - Barbarian looked interesting, I tried out one. Tried out a swashbuckler. Tried out an assassin and a mechanic. Tried out a DWS/AA. Tried out a Paladin. Tried out a warlock. The revamped trees looked interesting and I felt they offered a play experience that would be worth trying. Right now I am not getting that vibe from the Fighter mini-pass. Now since Fighters are a catch all of a variety of fighting styles it is very possible I just don't see some good MC options that are now available. I'll keep an eye out, but I don't have the urge to go out and roll up a fighter.

Tilomere
05-13-2016, 01:44 AM
there are no new or interesting builds.

PDK 12 Fighter 6 Warlock 2 FVS Power Surge + FoD SLA + CKT + Aura + Just Rewards.

Add in energy burst to EA nukes, fueling both the attack, damage, FoD DC, and EA DCs all with power surge, improved sunder to lower fort saves, some stuns, and you should be in business.

adrian69
05-13-2016, 01:57 AM
For me it boils down to this - Barbarian looked interesting, I tried out one. Tried out a swashbuckler. Tried out an assassin and a mechanic. Tried out a DWS/AA. Tried out a Paladin. Tried out a warlock. The revamped trees looked interesting and I felt they offered a play experience that would be worth trying. Right now I am not getting that vibe from the Fighter mini-pass. Now since Fighters are a catch all of a variety of fighting styles it is very possible I just don't see some good MC options that are now available. I'll keep an eye out, but I don't have the urge to go out and roll up a fighter.

I was thinking that 12 barbarian 6 fighter 2 rogue stick build looked like promising new way of playing a defensive variant of it. A lot of give and take with it, but I'm sure it would work. +2 Range, +1 multiplier, 15% attack speed, +25% double strike, Blood Strength, and 6% GB dmg and 12% to GBs depending on who you ask. This is all you have AP for though, so you'd probably still want to do light armor and evasion.

adrian69
05-13-2016, 02:22 AM
one cut is horrible. if it wasnt on the same timer as haste boost

theorycrafting a new tree that has no basis in reality and is not going to be read by a dev and never going to be implemented is kinda pointless. the theory crafting of builds based on what actually exists, that is not pointless. entirely. because youre right, there are no new or interesting builds.

Are you sure it's still on the same timer with Haste Boost now? May be something to check out. I've never played a pure fighter, but I saw Ubongwah suggest it to someone somewhere on forums the other day, or I saw the guy testing all the dps variant builds on Vault suggest it, don't remember now that I am thinking to much over it, so I can't comment more on than I know what it's supposed to do and I have heard mixed messages over its use.

I wrote that because it's what I hoped to see. Not exactly that, but something as creative as that. If I wanted a dev to see I'd made it more visually appealing, dressed it up all nice in some coding with an adobe program, and PM it to them. Again, it is to spark more conversation about what Kensei really needed and what it got.

vyvy3369
05-13-2016, 01:48 PM
It just doesn't work well compared to paladin. The only think you got going are the extra feats for tactics, which could be needed in the highest content. Other than that the APs are not nearly enough. The reason of course is that it MUST have the vanguard capstone. Without the capstone (which is probably not WAI), the vanguard is a mediocre SWF specialist with a bit more PRR.

I remember trying Demon assault EE on two fighters when it came out. My THF pure kensei did WAY better than a vanguard build. Now the vanguard build has received very little in terms of buffs, whereas the THF has had a very respectable DPS increase. So of course one can still play a vanguard fighter, but it is under the explicit understanding that you are a flavor build.
I've been trying various types of Fighter since last Fall, and while I loved Vanguard at first, I soon came to realize that Vanguard is a trap. You are basically required to spend 41 AP in the tree to be competitive, and what do you really gain out of that? Stunning shield, which is nice, but you can get that with just 8 AP. MP boost on a separate timer is also nice, but again, that's low-hanging fruit down in Tier 2. Everything else that's (IMO) really worth spending points on is attack speed increases. The offhand shield bashes didn't add up to enough to be worth bothering with since you only get 1 bash every second IIRC (Per wiki - "Since update 23, secondary shield bashes can proc while moving and have a 1 second cooldown.").

This got me thinking that there just had to be a better way to play a S&B Fighter, and I think there is. 16 Fighter to qualify for all of the new tactics feats, 3 Bard for Skirmisher, 1 Rogue for trapping. There are several ways you can take it from there, but the crux is that Skirmisher allows you to SWF with a Buckler, giving you most of the defensive benefits, even faster attack speed than Vanguard, and it only costs you 11 AP in SB. Even if you take stunning shield & MP boost from Vanguard, that's still only 22 AP compared to the 41 you'd spend in Vanguard, leaving you plenty of points for Kensei and Stalwart Defender. Yes, you miss out on the Kensei capstone, which is a shame, but if you want to S&B IMO that's the way to go. You also miss out on double-MRR from a heavier shield, but that's manageable.

The variant I've been playing most used Heavy armor (with the armor training feats for extra PRR&MRR) and Khopeshes, which still gave comparable AC & PRR to a pure Fighter Vanguard, with a higher Dodge but lower effective MRR. I'm currently playing around with Light armor and actually swashbuckling, and it seems to work OK. As things stand now with the Kensei mult being Insight, Rapiers are pretty sick - at level 21 a Drow Rapier was something like 12-20/x4. After that's fixed, I might try Handaxes or something and just miss out on Kensei's Keen Edge.

When I get tired of SWF, I'm thinking I'll +5 LR into pure Fighter and see how well that works for THF and TWF for a couple of ERs.

Edit: a guildie has been talking about trying 12 Fighter / 7 Bard (Haste & Displacement) / 1 Rogue in a similar fashion. That should also work reasonably well - better defense, lower tactics DCs.

adrian69
05-13-2016, 02:53 PM
one cut is horrible. if it wasnt on the same timer as haste boost, i would go so far as to say it wasnt even completely useless because itd basically be +5 dmg. but it is on the same timer as haste, and its definitely not going to instakill anything, except maybe at level 18, in which case splashing 2 levels of something else is again pointless.

i think 8 will be used for tr builds of other classes, but i think its not going to be as common as 6. its 2 class levels for about 5 or so dmg and 2 mp.

personally i go with both strong defense and tenacious defense. the +20% is probably overall better by a solid margin, but i personally think strong d is still very worth having, and its not just +3 dmg. its +3 to hit, +3(mp) dmg, +3 tac dcs, +3 to resist knockdowns. and +whatever carryweight and +3 swim, which are probably the most important things (actually swim is kinda good).

theorycrafting a new tree that has no basis in reality and is not going to be read by a dev and never going to be implemented is kinda pointless. the theory crafting of builds based on what actually exists, that is not pointless. entirely. because youre right, there are no new or interesting builds.


I've been trying various types of Fighter since last Fall, and while I loved Vanguard at first, I soon came to realize that Vanguard is a trap. You are basically required to spend 41 AP in the tree to be competitive, and what do you really gain out of that? Stunning shield, which is nice, but you can get that with just 8 AP. MP boost on a separate timer is also nice, but again, that's low-hanging fruit down in Tier 2. Everything else that's (IMO) really worth spending points on is attack speed increases. The offhand shield bashes didn't add up to enough to be worth bothering with since you only get 1 bash every second IIRC (Per wiki - "Since update 23, secondary shield bashes can proc while moving and have a 1 second cooldown.").

This got me thinking that there just had to be a better way to play a S&B Fighter, and I think there is. 16 Fighter to qualify for all of the new tactics feats, 3 Bard for Skirmisher, 1 Rogue for trapping. There are several ways you can take it from there, but the crux is that Skirmisher allows you to SWF with a Buckler, giving you most of the defensive benefits, even faster attack speed than Vanguard, and it only costs you 11 AP in SB. Even if you take stunning shield & MP boost from Vanguard, that's still only 22 AP compared to the 41 you'd spend in Vanguard, leaving you plenty of points for Kensei and Stalwart Defender. Yes, you miss out on the Kensei capstone, which is a shame, but if you want to S&B IMO that's the way to go. You also miss out on double-MRR from a heavier shield, but that's manageable.

The variant I've been playing most used Heavy armor (with the armor training feats for extra PRR&MRR) and Khopeshes, which still gave comparable AC & PRR to a pure Fighter Vanguard, with a higher Dodge but lower effective MRR. I'm currently playing around with Light armor and actually swashbuckling, and it seems to work OK. As things stand now with the Kensei mult being Insight, Rapiers are pretty sick - at level 21 a Drow Rapier was something like 12-20/x4. After that's fixed, I might try Handaxes or something and just miss out on Kensei's Keen Edge.

When I get tired of SWF, I'm thinking I'll +5 LR into pure Fighter and see how well that works for THF and TWF for a couple of ERs.

Edit: a guildie has been talking about trying 12 Fighter / 7 Bard (Haste & Displacement) / 1 Rogue in a similar fashion. That should also work reasonably well - better defense, lower tactics DCs.

Oddly, I'm standing by a Horc level 17 who is going for 12 fighter 7 bard 1 barb S&B build.

BigErkyKid
05-13-2016, 06:17 PM
I've been trying various types of Fighter since last Fall, and while I loved Vanguard at first, I soon came to realize that Vanguard is a trap. You are basically required to spend 41 AP in the tree to be competitive, and what do you really gain out of that? Stunning shield, which is nice, but you can get that with just 8 AP. MP boost on a separate timer is also nice, but again, that's low-hanging fruit down in Tier 2. Everything else that's (IMO) really worth spending points on is attack speed increases. The offhand shield bashes didn't add up to enough to be worth bothering with since you only get 1 bash every second IIRC (Per wiki - "Since update 23, secondary shield bashes can proc while moving and have a 1 second cooldown.").
.

The reason why any vanguard must take the capstone is a bit different though. The capstone provides stuns for free. It looks very underwhelmimg (5% of all the bashes...which amounts to nothing since you bash 1xsecond), but it is actually way better. I would say that it is in the range of 1/4 or 1/2 stuns per bash.

Without the capstone it is a huge investment that doesn't really provide nearly enough DPS. I would not do it at all, having a shield on is typically a bad idea.

vyvy3369
05-13-2016, 06:53 PM
The reason why any vanguard must take the capstone is a bit different though. The capstone provides stuns for free. It looks very underwhelmimg (5% of all the bashes...which amounts to nothing since you bash 1xsecond), but it is actually way better. I would say that it is in the range of 1/4 or 1/2 stuns per bash.
A guildie tried selling the same talk about the shield bash stuns being so great before I tried Vanguard. I did pure Fighter Vanguard through 3ish epic lives, and it was nowhere near that often for me. Per the description, you should see a stun from the capstone roughly every 20s of pure combat with trash, which matches my experience pretty well. It was definitely nowhere near 1/4 or 1/2 for me. Maybe it was happening more often, just on mobs that I had already CC'd, but if something needs to be CC'd it should happen when I want it to, not on a random mob over the course of 20s.

maddong
05-13-2016, 08:38 PM
Kensei 6 == insight and stacks with swash???

Brushhooks = 13-20/x5 = 160% crit damage
Balizarde = 15-20/x5 = 120 % crit damage

Fighter 6/bard 3 can get you any past life pretty easily....

the_one_dwarfforged
05-13-2016, 09:52 PM
Are you sure it's still on the same timer with Haste Boost now? May be something to check out. I've never played a pure fighter, but I saw Ubongwah suggest it to someone somewhere on forums the other day, or I saw the guy testing all the dps variant builds on Vault suggest it, don't remember now that I am thinking to much over it, so I can't comment more on than I know what it's supposed to do and I have heard mixed messages over its use.

when i last played pure fighter, which wasnt too long ago really, one cut shared the same cd as haste boost because it counts as a class action boost. its possible that has changed, but i doubt it considering dev comments made in that one fighter thread.


Kensei 6 == insight and stacks with swash???

been stated as a known issue and planned to be fixed. in the meantime, yes.

BigErkyKid
05-14-2016, 04:47 AM
A guildie tried selling the same talk about the shield bash stuns being so great before I tried Vanguard. I did pure Fighter Vanguard through 3ish epic lives, and it was nowhere near that often for me. Per the description, you should see a stun from the capstone roughly every 20s of pure combat with trash, which matches my experience pretty well. It was definitely nowhere near 1/4 or 1/2 for me. Maybe it was happening more often, just on mobs that I had already CC'd, but if something needs to be CC'd it should happen when I want it to, not on a random mob over the course of 20s.

As of u28 people reported that it was still giving an abnormal stun rate. I have done it on a paladin so I know it to be true. Maybe you couldn't get in before the nerf? Again, it really isn't every 20 seconds; at all. If it was, it would be complete garbage for a capstone.

Shielders are basically dead other than for flavor since they nerfed HS not to apply to shields. The piling of PRR from legendary feats and gear, plus the gigantic piles of dodge we can get now have made shield builds redundant yet again.

vyvy3369
05-14-2016, 09:54 PM
As of u28 people reported that it was still giving an abnormal stun rate. I have done it on a paladin so I know it to be true. Maybe you couldn't get in before the nerf? Again, it really isn't every 20 seconds; at all. If it was, it would be complete garbage for a capstone.

Shielders are basically dead other than for flavor since they nerfed HS not to apply to shields. The piling of PRR from legendary feats and gear, plus the gigantic piles of dodge we can get now have made shield builds redundant yet again.
SWF w/ a buckler seems to be comparable DPS with some additional AC, another melee-oriented equipment slot, and 15% extra doublestrike from SM/ISM/LSM. Anyway...perhaps it's not optimal, but it performs just fine IMO, with a good mix of defense and DPS.

In the meantime, I had another idea that I may give a try for an ER. I was trying to figure out how to make a ranged Fighter life work well, and I hate arrow management, which brought up the idea of a thrower. Swashbuckling and Kensei bonuses apply to both Handaxes and Throwing Axes, so for example an old Mineral 2 Throwing Axe is 16-20/x5 while swashbuckling. Haven't worked out the Feats yet, but could probably do a primary thrower with a backup in handaxes for melee as needed. I've always been meaning to do a thrower life, and always end up doing bows instead.

TheWalruss
05-17-2016, 09:52 AM
Here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/474688-U31-Hammer-of-Gods-TWF-Centered-Kensei) is my fighter build. Still working on it and will update it once I have all the gear in order.

adrian69
05-20-2016, 12:51 AM
Here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/474688-U31-Hammer-of-Gods-TWF-Centered-Kensei) is my fighter build. Still working on it and will update it once I have all the gear in order.

How is your build working out Walruss? I was looking at your concept for it way back in U31.


Also, for others to note, an 18 kensei fighter 1 fvs splash now should be able to attain the highest attainable Melee Power and Strength in game at the moment. Its defenses are still on the lower side compared to Light Armor/Evasion imo.

SpiritofAlba
05-26-2016, 08:01 AM
why in the world would you put 7 paladin and 1 fvs on the same build? you only need one for dm. and why 7 paladin? you only need two for dm and dg, i see no reason to go higher than that on a fighter build. fighter gives you access to pretty much the same stance.

The FVS and Paladin DMs are not the same. FVS uses spell points, and with a high charisma build should have a fair few of them, allowing running in DM pretty constantly in fights. Paladin DM relies on limited turn undead turns. DG is well worth having on a high charisma build. The extra paladin levels raise the DG cap, chuck in a few more spell points, give some sundry benefits like immune to fear, and I can't see a clear downside over taking more than 12 fighter levels and fewer paladin.

Completely open to being wrong, it was only a speculative post, but I did give it a bit of thought.

JOTMON
05-26-2016, 09:38 AM
Jeezus, I am suprized one has dropped some new builds on forums for fighters.


I'm not surprised.
all I saw in the changes was.. meh...

the_one_dwarfforged
05-26-2016, 08:56 PM
The FVS and Paladin DMs are not the same. FVS uses spell points, and with a high charisma build should have a fair few of them, allowing running in DM pretty constantly in fights. Paladin DM relies on limited turn undead turns. DG is well worth having on a high charisma build. The extra paladin levels raise the DG cap, chuck in a few more spell points, give some sundry benefits like immune to fear, and I can't see a clear downside over taking more than 12 fighter levels and fewer paladin.

Completely open to being wrong, it was only a speculative post, but I did give it a bit of thought.

sure fvs and pally dm arent the same, but so what? turn undead charges are almost never going to run out (its such a niche scenario and so unilikely to occurr, its not even worth commenting on), so thats a non issue.

if you are going to use fvs dm, why bother having paladin levels? sure divine grace is nice, but its just not worth sacrificing so many class levels for that single effect alone.

BigErkyKid
05-28-2016, 02:47 PM
You won't see many fighters because of the self healing issues. You can go blade forged for an easy button, but it is one of those kill fast or die (in tough content, even with massive PRR hits are pretty strong). Personally I like consecrated ground, which can hit for around 300-400 a tick every 3 seconds which DPSing.

I like that they provided a platform for a multi classing, but I don't foresee many uber mainly fighter builds.

Personally, I am finally able to play my THF war chanter with the new changes. 32 AP in kensei, enough AP for freeze and fascinate undead, KTA, 13 points in defender. THF line and fighter tactics. I think it is a well rounded character (emergency CC, self heals, self buffed) with decent DPS.

It is less survivable than a ranger. No evasion, and with bad saves and in the new content that matters. Then also sometimes you will fail a fortitude /will save and go down.

Nevertheless, if you play smartly you can finish any quest in the game in LE/EE.

Artagon
05-28-2016, 04:21 PM
I've been toying with the idea of 4 bard 16 fighter.. Swashbuckling for SWF + Buckler, grabbing the tactical feats, stunning blow, and improved trip. With vanguard, kensai, swashbuckler, LD, and Dire Charge I would have 7 different forms of melee crowd control. I'm thinking I would likely use a hand axe and skip kensai T5.. With swashbuckling I get +2 crit range, kensai lvl 6 core gives +1 multiplier, with LD I can snag headsman's chop... Not a bad weapon.

BigErkyKid
05-28-2016, 04:31 PM
I've been toying with the idea of 4 bard 16 fighter.. Swashbuckling for SWF + Buckler, grabbing the tactical feats, stunning blow, and improved trip. With vanguard, kensai, swashbuckler, LD, and Dire Charge I would have 6 different forms of melee crowd control. I'm thinking I would likely use a hand axe and skip kensai T5.. With swashbuckling I get +2 crit range, kensai lvl 6 core gives +1 multiplier. Not a bad weapon.

If you really want a swash I'd do 12 bard / 6 fighter / 2 rogue. That's a truly awesome build ATM. Use hand axes, go minimal swash (IMO), invest good amounts in Kensei. I'd do it STR based probably. Bards where updated BEFORE MP so that's precisely what they lack the most.

The problem I had with this build is that tactics won't work. Unless you are willing to go with CKT, IMHO for end game 8 fighter is required to land freeze. It might not seem worth the investment, but IMO it is.

The big question one needs to ask is what is the build for: raiding or questing. The way to build for those two types of content is IMHO not the same at all. The the second big question is whether you are trying to be self sufficient (read uber) or you are fine playing in a group context. If you want uber, forget about melee, since we are back to shiradi / monkcher. If you build melees for raiding in organized groups, I'd say go nuts on DPS.

Artagon
05-28-2016, 04:51 PM
If you really want a swash I'd do 12 bard / 6 fighter / 2 rogue. That's a truly awesome build ATM. Use hand axes, go minimal swash (IMO), invest good amounts in Kensei. I'd do it STR based probably. Bards where updated BEFORE MP so that's precisely what they lack the most.

The problem I had with this build is that tactics won't work. Unless you are willing to go with CKT, IMHO for end game 8 fighter is required to land freeze. It might not seem worth the investment, but IMO it is.

The big question one needs to ask is what is the build for: raiding or questing. The way to build for those two types of content is IMHO not the same at all. The the second big question is whether you are trying to be self sufficient (read uber) or you are fine playing in a group context. If you want uber, forget about melee, since we are back to shiradi / monkcher. If you build melees for raiding in organized groups, I'd say go nuts on DPS.

My thought on 6 fighter is that you are missing out tactical feats that make it so the tactics do indeed work. Your build concept is absolutely solid, but not really what I'd be going for on mine. I'd be snagging KtA to pump up my DCs.

With KtA going I am thinking I should be able to hit 90+ DC on my tactics (probably not swashbuckler, so I might slide that back to 3 bard, 1 rogue).

Tilomere
05-30-2016, 02:48 AM
I've been trying various types of Fighter since last Fall, and while I loved Vanguard at first, I soon came to realize that Vanguard is a trap. There are several ways you can take it from there, but the crux is that Skirmisher allows you to SWF with a Buckler, giving you most of the defensive benefits, even faster attack speed than Vanguard, and it only costs you 11 AP in SB.

I learned from you, and decided to do 2 druid for wolf form. :)

adrian69
05-31-2016, 09:11 PM
You won't see many fighters because of the self healing issues. You can go blade forged for an easy button, but it is one of those kill fast or die (in tough content, even with massive PRR hits are pretty strong). Personally I like consecrated ground, which can hit for around 300-400 a tick every 3 seconds which DPSing.

I like that they provided a platform for a multi classing, but I don't foresee many uber mainly fighter builds.

Personally, I am finally able to play my THF war chanter with the new changes. 32 AP in kensei, enough AP for freeze and fascinate undead, KTA, 13 points in defender. THF line and fighter tactics. I think it is a well rounded character (emergency CC, self heals, self buffed) with decent DPS.

It is less survivable than a ranger. No evasion, and with bad saves and in the new content that matters. Then also sometimes you will fail a fortitude /will save and go down.

Nevertheless, if you play smartly you can finish any quest in the game in LE/EE.


I can't say anything for heroics, but my the pure level 20 fighter that I am running right now in Epics is a beast. I am doing more DPS in DC than my barbarian in LD. LD makes it better, and I have been doing it in some guild/friendly raids quests where I trust someone to grab me when my health starts to slip. However, in DoJ EH, new quests, whatever, I feel pretty invincible and my minimum buffed damage is around 375-475 a swing with lots of crits from ranging from 1900-7000k (Deadly Strike) and I have smacked giant skellies with A Good Death for 22k. A well built, decently geared Kensei is on par and above w/ other melees now. My saves are also pretty decent for a pure fighter build 70+/54/52. More over, I am not having any issues with survivability, other against a rare creature or handful of quests.


Note: At 29/30 I got my saves to 78/68/65, which is pretty great for pure melee. That's not included buffs that doesn't figure in.
Largest hit so far is 44k against the training dummy with 190 MP in Fury w/ Killer. ;) Haven't tried running in Fury though it would be interesting with all of Kensei's attacks.

Finn42
06-05-2016, 09:27 AM
Any unarmed monk+fighter builds coming out (back) with U31 fix to unarmed and Kensai ?

have seen https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475703-Tactical-Fist-12-8-Fighter-Monk
but no comments etc on it.

for a more tankish/survival type build would one do more fighter or more monk? have seen 12Mnk/8Ftr (and 8Mnk/12 Ftr) in discussions... but no actual full out builds. Does anyone have a build ?
Thanks, Finn.

Kindaru
06-06-2016, 06:25 PM
Comments and Suggestions?



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 4.31.001
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 30 Chaotic Good Human Male
(20 Fighter \ 10 Epic)
Hit Points: 638
Spell Points: 40
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 14
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 30)
Strength 16 34
Dexterity 14 21
Constitution 16 23
Intelligence 12 19
Wisdom 14 21
Charisma 8 15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Strength used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Strength used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19 \par
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 30)
Balance 2 28.5
Bluff 0 14
Concentration 0 21
Diplomacy 0 14
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 14
Heal 1 28.5
Hide 0 17
Intimidate 4 37
Jump 0 40
Listen 0 17
Move Silently 0 17
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 17
Search 1 17
Spellcraft 0 16
Spot 0 17
Swim 0 24
Tumble 1 18
Use Magic Device 3 26.5

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Warlock
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Human Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Heavy Armor Training


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Completionist


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Heavy Armor Combatant
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Heavy Armor Master


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Heavy Armor Champion


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Tacticle Master
Feat: (Selected) Tacticle Supremacy


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Picks and Hammers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Power Surge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - One Cut (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Picks and Hammers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Picks and Hammers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Picks and Hammers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Picks and Hammers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike at the Heart (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - A Good Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Weapon Master (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - One With The Blade (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Deadly Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Keen Edge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - To the Fore! (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Combat (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vicious Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Combat II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vicious Shield II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - No Weakness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - No Weakness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - No Weakness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Stunning Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Stunning Shield (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Stunning Shield (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Missile Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Reposte (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Reposte (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Reposte (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Myrmidon's Edge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Myrmidon's Edge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Myrmidon's Edge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Shield Mastery (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Primal Sphere: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Martial Sphere: Elusive Target


Level 29 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Martial Sphere: Dire Charge


Level 30 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Multiple Spheres: Harbinger of Chaos
Feat: (Legendary) Scion of Arborea

adrian69
06-06-2016, 09:54 PM
Comments and Suggestions?



Looks fine to me, but I didn't look over it with a fine tooth comb. Only suggestions I would make would be to replace toughness, unless you're going for epic toughness, but I find both unneeded on a pure melee these days. I would also try to only take the heavy armor feats that grant 12 PRR/MRR and 9 PRR/MRR if you're only going to be taking a two. You should also try to pick up tactics +8 if you can for dire charge.

adrian69
06-06-2016, 10:04 PM
Any unarmed monk+fighter builds coming out (back) with U31 fix to unarmed and Kensai ?

have seen https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475703-Tactical-Fist-12-8-Fighter-Monk
but no comments etc on it.

for a more tankish/survival type build would one do more fighter or more monk? have seen 12Mnk/8Ftr (and 8Mnk/12 Ftr) in discussions... but no actual full out builds. Does anyone have a build ?
Thanks, Finn.

You'd be fine either way, I'd think. Only build I've seen is 12 monk 6 fighter 2 ranger Monkcher.

12 M/ 8 Ftr (If Kensei applies to fist now, no need to take tier 5 in your monk, if not, better monk builders than me out there. I haven't touched one in about a year probably).

Pros/Cons that I can think of with 12 monk or with out.

+.5 die damage
Abundant Step
Greater Evasion

12 fighter gives two feats

Sorry, monks haven't been my thing for a while, and hopefully someone better familiarized with them at this state in the game will help you.

the_one_dwarfforged
06-06-2016, 10:25 PM
Comments and Suggestions?



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 4.31.001
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 30 Chaotic Good Human Male
(20 Fighter \ 10 Epic)
Hit Points: 638
Spell Points: 40
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 14
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 30)
Strength 16 34
Dexterity 14 21
Constitution 16 23
Intelligence 12 19
Wisdom 14 21
Charisma 8 15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Strength used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Strength used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19 \par
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 30)
Balance 2 28.5
Bluff 0 14
Concentration 0 21
Diplomacy 0 14
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 14
Heal 1 28.5
Hide 0 17
Intimidate 4 37
Jump 0 40
Listen 0 17
Move Silently 0 17
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 17
Search 1 17
Spellcraft 0 16
Spot 0 17
Swim 0 24
Tumble 1 18
Use Magic Device 3 26.5

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Warlock
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Human Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Heavy Armor Training


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Completionist


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Heavy Armor Combatant
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Heavy Armor Master


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Heavy Armor Champion


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Tacticle Master
Feat: (Selected) Tacticle Supremacy


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Picks and Hammers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Power Surge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - One Cut (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Picks and Hammers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Picks and Hammers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Picks and Hammers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Picks and Hammers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike at the Heart (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - A Good Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Weapon Master (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - One With The Blade (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Deadly Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Keen Edge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - To the Fore! (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Combat (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vicious Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Combat II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vicious Shield II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - No Weakness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - No Weakness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - No Weakness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Stunning Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Stunning Shield (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Stunning Shield (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Missile Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Reposte (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Reposte (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Reposte (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Specialization IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Myrmidon's Edge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Myrmidon's Edge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Myrmidon's Edge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Shield Mastery (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Primal Sphere: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Martial Sphere: Elusive Target


Level 29 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Martial Sphere: Dire Charge


Level 30 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Multiple Spheres: Harbinger of Chaos
Feat: (Legendary) Scion of Arborea




hammers are a suboptimal choice. khopeshes are way better, or bastard swords if you want glancing blows.

half ranks in skills wont do anything for you i dont think. i know for sure it wont do anything for umd, dont see why it would be different for other skills.

your wisdom is wastefully high imo. the difference in will save between 8 and 14 wisdom is 3. 3...

if not taking kta, why bother with int. if you are spending points in repair, either you dont care about putting your skills to good use or you have too many. you dont need this much int either way.

why is your dex so high if youre not using it as a prereq for anything? same comment as wis.

if this build is for legendaries, i really think tenacious defense is necessary.

if human, theres never a reason why you cant afford human dmg boost for a whopping 1 ap.

kensei conditioning agility wont help your dodge at all.

why are you ranking up repair on a human? i dont think theres anything you can cast that will heal robots and be affected by your repair spp. this skill does nothing for a fleshy personally.

why would you spend all those ap in kensei and not take alacrity? why wuold you go pure fighter and not take alacrity, or any capstone even? why not multiclass at that point if you really dont care about it? alacrity gives very high bonuses to multiple very good stats and additionally is basically the equivalent of completionist...youre willing to spend a feat on +2 to all stats but not 1 ap? that just doesnt make any sense.

why not opportunity attack? its pretty annoying but pretty damn good honestly. you take kensei cores up to +20 mp and then stop even though the next core is also really good. this suggests to me you overly value mp or undervalue other stats. either way, why would you not take another +20 mp?

power attack is strongest at the lower levels, and its pretty good at all levels anyway. should be taken much sooner than 15, if not at level 1.

you take only cleave, and only at level 20. your aoe with warhammers will literally be nonexistent until that point, and lackluster at that point. cleave should be taken early, if not at level 1. additionally, you should be taking great cleave as well, asap really. you can drop a worthless **** tier feat like heavy armor training for great cleave, trust me.



this build does not look very effective or well thought out to me.

Kindaru
06-07-2016, 01:08 PM
1. Swapping to heavt picks.
2. Dropping intel and wis to 8 and maxing Str and Con, rest in Dex
3. Tenacious defense added
4. Human dmg boost added
5. screwd up on cap (aclarity) I thought I took it
6. power attack and cleave taken early levels
7. Opportunity attack and liquid courage are not available on character builder.

adrian69
06-08-2016, 09:39 AM
1. Swapping to heavt picks.
2. Dropping intel and wis to 8 and maxing Str and Con, rest in Dex
3. Tenacious defense added
4. Human dmg boost added
5. screwd up on cap (aclarity) I thought I took it
6. power attack and cleave taken early levels
7. Opportunity attack and liquid courage are not available on character builder.

One thing you could do, finding 6-8 AP and a feat for it, is drop dex, start 17 or 18 str/16 con/rest intel and pick up KTA and Insightful Reflexes.

That's what I did on mine at least. I buff up to 54 intel for +11 damage and DCs. Increases DPS by a great amount.

41 AP in Kensei can get you everything needed, so just figure out your other trees with the 39 AP you have left over.

Kindaru
06-11-2016, 01:21 PM
[QUOTE=adrian69;5834339]One thing you could do, finding 6-8 AP and a feat for it, is drop dex, start 17 or 18 str/16 con/rest intel and pick up KTA and Insightful Reflexes.

KTA?

Grailhawk
06-11-2016, 01:46 PM
KTA?

Know the Angles tier 2 Harper Enhancement.

giftie
06-12-2016, 04:34 AM
I've been wondering just how high I could get my crit profile while still grabbing Dance of Death from Tempest tree. Since DoD is not restricted by fighting style, I've been toying with the idea of Ranger/Fighter/Bard splash. The new Kensai core 3 works nicely with swashbuckling weapons that only add threat range - specifically light picks and handaxes - while still allowing any T5. So I'm looking at a base crit range of 17-20 x5 or 15-20 x4 respectively, outside of epic feats and EDs. Picks would be 16-18 x5, 19-20 x6 in DC and Axes 15-18 x4, 19-20 x7 in LD, i.e. the same effective hits, but gives axes a slight lead with more frequent on-crit effects. Still, picks are kinda awesome, and DC somewhat stronger than LD without the cleaves. Picks also goes well with Gnomes lore-wise, which is good since I imagined an INT-based build.

This is a rough build draft (36pt):

Gnome 9 Ranger/6 Fighter/3 Bard

STR: 6
DEX: 12
CON: 18
INT: 20
WIS: 8
CHA: 8

Level-ups to INT, at least +1 DEX tome needed for Precision.

Skills: you should have enough skill points for pretty much everything useful

Feats: SWFx3, Precision, Dodge, Mobility, SMx2, IC: Pierce, Insightful Reflexes, WF: Pierce, WS: Pierce, OC, Blinding Speed, pSWF, pTWF - level 29 & 30 feats TBD.

Enhancements:

Tempest - 33, up to Dance of Death.
Harper - 12, Strategic Combat 1 & 2, KtA
Swashbuckler - 11, up to Skirmisher
Kensai - 11, up to Strike with no Thought
Stalwart - 13, up to greater stance (+20% HP)

Probably Divine Crusader with at least LSM and Endless Faith (Endless gives Echoes even if you don't have Magical Training and needed to power Consecration)

The last 2 levels are optional - Fighter bonus feat may be slightly stronger, but I wanted CMW and another Favored Enemy from 11 Ranger. 2 Bard doesn't get you much.

ValariusK
06-12-2016, 11:40 AM
Doing an 18 Fighter/2 paladin bladeforged this life. Decided not to use a lesser +5 heart, so I went ahead and took the 2nd level of pally. Basically trading off the +8 on saving throws for the capstone and an extra feat.
With reconstruct I have perfectly serviceable self healing and won't need to twist any extra healing in epics, so I'll probably run LD. Doing 35 Kensai, 25ish Stalwart 18ish Bladeforged for enhancements. Power surge is a thing of beauty and melee power on this build should be really high (18 Fighter will give me 20 more, and there'll be blitz). Tacticals should be pretty good also. A SoS in my TR cache makes this build extremely strong right from the get go.

the_one_dwarfforged
06-14-2016, 10:57 AM
Picks would be 16-18 x5, 19-20 x6 in DC and Axes 15-18 x4, 19-20 x7 in LD, i.e. the same effective hits

by my count axes are ahead

unbongwah
06-14-2016, 11:09 AM
Picks would be 16-18 x5, 19-20 x6 in DC and Axes 15-18 x4, 19-20 x7 in LD, i.e. the same effective hits, but gives axes a slight lead with more frequent on-crit effects.
I believe one of us is misadding something - if we presume 95% hit chance:


picks: 2*6 + 3*5 + 14 = 41 effective hits
axes: 2*7 + 4*4 + 13 = 43 effective hits


So axes are ahead in both on-crit effects and effective hits.

Tempest - 33, up to Dance of Death.
Harper - 12, Strategic Combat 1 & 2, KtA
Swashbuckler - 11, up to Skirmisher
Kensai - 11, up to Strike with no Thought
Stalwart - 13, up to greater stance (+20% HP)
Thousand Cuts will also work with SWF and you can get INT to dmg from Swashbuckler (Two Steps Ahead) instead. This would allow you to do 36 APs Tempest (DoD + TC) / 13 APs SB (Skirmisher + TSA) / 13 APs SD (Tenacious Defense) / 11 APs Kensei (SwNT) / 7 APs Harper (KtA). Essentially you trade a little sustained DPS for a big boost to burst DPS; should be really nice if combined w/Zeal of the Righteous.

BigErkyKid
06-14-2016, 11:20 AM
I've been wondering just how high I could get my crit profile while still grabbing Dance of Death from Tempest tree. Since DoD is not restricted by fighting style, I've been toying with the idea of Ranger/Fighter/Bard splash. The new Kensai core 3 works nicely with swashbuckling weapons that only add threat range - specifically light picks and handaxes - while still allowing any T5. So I'm looking at a base crit range of 17-20 x5 or 15-20 x4 respectively, outside of epic feats and EDs. Picks would be 16-18 x5, 19-20 x6 in DC and Axes 15-18 x4, 19-20 x7 in LD, i.e. the same effective hits, but gives axes a slight lead with more frequent on-crit effects. Still, picks are kinda awesome, and DC somewhat stronger than LD without the cleaves. Picks also goes well with Gnomes lore-wise, which is good since I imagined an INT-based build.

This is a rough build draft (36pt):

Gnome 9 Ranger/6 Fighter/3 Bard

STR: 6
DEX: 12
CON: 18
INT: 20
WIS: 8
CHA: 8

Level-ups to INT, at least +1 DEX tome needed for Precision.

Skills: you should have enough skill points for pretty much everything useful

Feats: SWFx3, Precision, Dodge, Mobility, SMx2, IC: Pierce, Insightful Reflexes, WF: Pierce, WS: Pierce, OC, Blinding Speed, pSWF, pTWF - level 29 & 30 feats TBD.

Enhancements:

Tempest - 33, up to Dance of Death.
Harper - 12, Strategic Combat 1 & 2, KtA
Swashbuckler - 11, up to Skirmisher
Kensai - 11, up to Strike with no Thought
Stalwart - 13, up to greater stance (+20% HP)

Probably Divine Crusader with at least LSM and Endless Faith (Endless gives Echoes even if you don't have Magical Training and needed to power Consecration)

The last 2 levels are optional - Fighter bonus feat may be slightly stronger, but I wanted CMW and another Favored Enemy from 11 Ranger. 2 Bard doesn't get you much.


This is clearly an interesting split. I am wondering though if it pays off to try to pack so many crit enhancers vs simply going TWF. While SWF is strong, I reckon that a pure tempest capstone ranger could get ahead by simply number of attacks.

ValariusK
06-21-2016, 04:01 PM
Some notes: the Bladeforge's self healing for fighters has actually improved substantially with the new lootgen. A decent repair amp item (I have a 40ish repair amp item glove with 11% doublestrike around ML21) will help your self-healing an awful lot. Healing @50% of your base hit points is normally adequate, but pushing 2/3 to 3/4 is substantially better. Developing a drinking habit with 'liquid courage' helps a lot too.

the_one_dwarfforged
07-14-2016, 06:55 AM
I can't say anything for heroics, but my the pure level 20 fighter that I am running right now in Epics is a beast. I am doing more DPS in DC than my barbarian in LD. LD makes it better, and I have been doing it in some guild/friendly raids quests where I trust someone to grab me when my health starts to slip. However, in DoJ EH, new quests, whatever, I feel pretty invincible and my minimum buffed damage is around 375-475 a swing with lots of crits from ranging from 1900-7000k (Deadly Strike) and I have smacked giant skellies with A Good Death for 22k. A well built, decently geared Kensei is on par and above w/ other melees now. My saves are also pretty decent for a pure fighter build 70+/54/52. More over, I am not having any issues with survivability, other against a rare creature or handful of quests.


Note: At 29/30 I got my saves to 78/68/65, which is pretty great for pure melee. That's not included buffs that doesn't figure in.
Largest hit so far is 44k against the training dummy with 190 MP in Fury w/ Killer. ;) Haven't tried running in Fury though it would be interesting with all of Kensei's attacks.

so i would like to reiterate my question:

was that 22k first number damage, or 22k untyped damage?

22k in what destiny with what buffs active and what weapon spec? based on your comments i assume ld for destiny, however your 1900-7000 crits statement seems odd, as with esos i frequently and easily crit well over 7k without trying, but i havent done 22k in this spec, although i havent actually tried to, and the untyped damage seems like it would be nowhere near able to do 22k in ld. so yea, im confused, unless your 7000k crits are nonhelpless crits and your 22k crit is a helpless crit and this was with an axe. am i correct?

5 minutes of "effort" produced this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBMPozR_69I

i now wonder what the best max melee crit build is, an 18/1/1 horc barb, or an 18/1/1 horc fighter... i think the barb is up by 1 crit multi on 19/20 while fighter is up by 20 mp (all other things being equal, which they probably arent)

Eth
07-15-2016, 06:11 AM
i now wonder what the best max melee crit build is, an 18/1/1 horc barb, or an 18/1/1 horc fighter... i think the barb is up by 1 crit multi on 19/20 while fighter is up by 20 mp (all other things being equal, which they probably arent)

Barb with Riftmaker is x10 (Fighter is x8, no?) on 19/20.
4 base + 1 FB18core + 2 Tier 5 FB + 1 OC + 1 Devastating Crit. + 1 Headman's chop.

For real stupid values you need to be on a first lifer in a freshly leveled Fury of the Wild Destiny. Nothing beats Adrenaline+Adrenaline+Adrenaline+Adrenaline for useless show-off numbers.

adrian69
07-15-2016, 10:55 AM
so i would like to reiterate my question:

was that 22k first number damage, or 22k untyped damage?

22k in what destiny with what buffs active and what weapon spec? based on your comments i assume ld for destiny, however your 1900-7000 crits statement seems odd, as with esos i frequently and easily crit well over 7k without trying, but i havent done 22k in this spec, although i havent actually tried to, and the untyped damage seems like it would be nowhere near able to do 22k in ld. so yea, im confused, unless your 7000k crits are nonhelpless crits and your 22k crit is a helpless crit and this was with an axe. am i correct?

5 minutes of "effort" produced this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBMPozR_69I

i now wonder what the best max melee crit build is, an 18/1/1 horc barb, or an 18/1/1 horc fighter... i think the barb is up by 1 crit multi on 19/20 while fighter is up by 20 mp (all other things being equal, which they probably arent)
T
Complete TF Khop in LD. The 22k was off A Good Death. The 4-7ks were not stunned with base damage at close a 1,000 for short periods. How do you attach images? I do have proof of base damage at 1000, but that may be best viewing elsewhere.

the_one_dwarfforged
07-15-2016, 09:51 PM
Barb with Riftmaker is x10 (Fighter is x8, no?) on 19/20.
4 base + 1 FB18core + 2 Tier 5 FB + 1 OC + 1 Devastating Crit. + 1 Headman's chop.

For real stupid values you need to be on a first lifer in a freshly leveled Fury of the Wild Destiny. Nothing beats Adrenaline+Adrenaline+Adrenaline+Adrenaline for useless show-off numbers.

hmm i think youre right barb is 2 ahead of fighter. add +1 to both for lay waste though. i have no idea whether the ~20 higher mp fighter has is more valuable for a max crit than +2 multi though.

first lifers posting their useless show off numbers arent useless. they make me laugh. and then when they die, they make me laugh again.

the_one_dwarfforged
07-15-2016, 10:00 PM
T
Complete TF Khop in LD. The 22k was off A Good Death. The 4-7ks were not stunned with base damage at close a 1,000 for short periods. How do you attach images? I do have proof of base damage at 1000, but that may be best viewing elsewhere.

yea, i know you said it was agd, i was asking if it was the physical (firstnumber) damage, or the untyped proc damage. sounds like the firstnumber dmg.

no need to prove 1k base dmg to me, i know thats easily done on fighter ;)

still want to know what buffs though. toee set? yugo/abishai/alchemical pots? boosts? one cut? lots of variation here.

adrian69
09-03-2016, 08:51 AM
yea, i know you said it was agd, i was asking if it was the physical (firstnumber) damage, or the untyped proc damage. sounds like the firstnumber dmg.

no need to prove 1k base dmg to me, i know thats easily done on fighter ;)

still want to know what buffs though. toee set? yugo/abishai/alchemical pots? boosts? one cut? lots of variation here.

It's not the base number, but the second number, which register as SA damage in log if I remember, so it's probably untyped.

Epic Acid ToEE Set with LGS Vacuum, Alc Pots, Yugo (Str, Dex, Int. Con only on SWF version or when a few extra health are needed), KtA, One Cut, Power Surge, LD, Symmetric Strikes (Sense Weakness in SWF), Grim Precision or Balanced Attacks based on content, Remember having right at 90 str, but not 90 as it was what I was striving for, 87 seems to feel like the number, though I remember 85 for for a while, too. Trying to remember everything. Going back to this build after I finish trying out 12bard/6 fighter hatchet build and a tree build, to farm all the rest of the LGS gear I want for my final Tempest Ranger product. Love Kensei now, but ranger's diversity is worth the trade for me.