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Marshal_Lannes
05-04-2016, 12:42 PM
I am currently playing a 18/2 Sorc, Paladin BF caster. He is pretty awful in epic play but kind of fun to play. For my anniversary gift I picked a Sword of Shadows so I want to turn this into a THF user after I get up to L30. I want to keep some casting elements but want to be a bit more viable in epics. It seems warlock and paladin will go well together but I am not sure about the level splits I should take. It seems to make sense to take 6 levels of Paladin for the defensive stance. 12 levels of warlock gives me the epic blast. Combat wise I am planing on swinging my SoS and using the two warlock blasts. Should I go primarily warlock or primarily paladin? Some ideas I had were...

14 Paladin/6 Warlock - Holy Sword, Shining Thru
12 Warlock/6 Paladin/2? - Epic blast feat, Paladin defensive stance

Any other combos I might want to consider?

unbongwah
05-04-2016, 01:51 PM
Not to be indelicate, but: are you combining paladin & warlock because you think it'll look cool or because you think it will be higher DPS than just focusing on one or the other? I've experimented with various caster / melee DPS hybrids and while I've had fun, I couldn't claim I was more effective / higher DPS than if I had just stuck with pure melee or pure caster. APs are always tight and it's especially challenging when using classes which don't have bonus feats; can't get all of the melee and caster DPS feats you want, particularly when you factor in all the epic caster feats these days.

EDIT: and with the forthcoming buff to Kensei, I'm almost surprised you didn't propose a warlock / ftr hybrid, like maybe ftr 12 / war 6 / pal 2?

Marshal_Lannes
05-04-2016, 03:07 PM
Not to be indelicate, but: are you combining paladin & warlock because you think it'll look cool or because you think it will be higher DPS than just focusing on one or the other? I've experimented with various caster / melee DPS hybrids and while I've had fun, I couldn't claim I was more effective / higher DPS than if I had just stuck with pure melee or pure caster. APs are always tight and it's especially challenging when using classes which don't have bonus feats; can't get all of the melee and caster DPS feats you want, particularly when you factor in all the epic caster feats these days.

EDIT: and with the forthcoming buff to Kensei, I'm almost surprised you didn't propose a warlock / ftr hybrid, like maybe ftr 12 / war 6 / pal 2?

Because it will look cool

Enoach
05-04-2016, 03:25 PM
Maybe consider 15 levels of Paladin and 5 Warlock since you are going to be Fey Pack

This will get you the Zeal Spell along with Holysword. Speed to attacks is something you should not neglect as a melee. Its more than just how hard you can hit.

I imagine you are also picking Bladeforge for the Greatsword benefits being a follower of the Lord of Blades as well as the Communion (Reconstruct spell like ability)

The Warlock's aura would be extra damage as well as the burst being cleave replacements, however, my concern would be the fact that you have to manage 4 out of your 6 Attributes to balance your Melee as well as casting. Strength, Constitution, Wisdom and Charisma.

Just plan well.

unbongwah
05-04-2016, 04:36 PM
Because it will look cool
Well, in that case, step into my parlor... :cool:

BF pal 14 / war 6
Feats: Addy Body (1), Power Atk (3), Max (6), IC:Slash (9), Emp (12), THF (15), ITHF (18), GTHF (21), Intensify (24), eArcane EB (26), OC (27), PTHF or PTWF (28), Dire Charge (29), ??? (30), Scion of ??? (30)
Enhancements: 35 APs ES (Shining Thru + Spirit Blast), 7 APs TS (Utterdark), 13 APs SD (Gtr Defense stance), 9 APs KotC (Div Might), 16 APs BF (Recon SLA+PotF)
ED: Div Crusader with usual DPS Twists

For our purposes, I'm ignoring Pact dmg and presuming this is a STR-based melee build; although CHA-based might be interesting if you twist Energy Burst Fire. Dire Charge into mobs, fire off your AoEs (two ES bursts + Consecration), melee the rest until cooldowns run out. Aura ticks every 4 seconds; if I'm reading the wiki right, you can take eArcane EB ED feat with any build, not just warlock 12+ like epic Eldritch Blast feat.

Marshal_Lannes
05-04-2016, 08:29 PM
You are right, APs are very tight! I really like how that's put together! For L29 feat I am thinking maybe Arcane Warrior? I assume the warlock blasts count as offensive spells (?) but does Concecration and Energy Burst? I think twisting energy burst would be ideal in this build - but would it be worthwhile to still go STR over Cha? I am not sure I could get my CHA high enough for mobs to consistently fail their saves vs the burst. I guess the dilemma would be:

STR based - easy to pump up, mobs take half dmg from energy burst
CHA based - hard to raise, mobs might fail save from energy burst, better divine might, possibly take soundbust SLA from Exalted Angel

Hmm....maybe CHA is the way to go?

Attack chain would be Warlock blasts x2, Concecration, Energy Burst, swing swing, repeat. It looks like there is no way to fit in a melee cleave (and therefore no twist of momentum swing possible). If I go CHA based throw soundburst in there.

Legendary Feat seems to be a choice between Fire Scion and Celestia.

giftie
05-05-2016, 07:41 AM
My advice: don't go 14 Pal/6 Warlock if you intend to use bursts. This has been tried before ( https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/462713-Kodraith-s-Anti-Paladiin-Build ), and the bursts are much lower damage than cleaves.

If you do go Warlock-heavy, why 6 levels of Paladin?

Marshal_Lannes
05-05-2016, 03:25 PM
If you do go Warlock-heavy, why 6 levels of Paladin?

For the Paladin defensive stance and I don't want t to just play a L20 warlock.

Krelar
05-05-2016, 03:32 PM
For the Paladin defensive stance and I don't want t to just play a L20 warlock.

You only need 3 levels for defensive stance.

Have you played with the AP yet? I feel like if your going for the tier 5's in enlightened spirit as well as defensive stance that will eat up a lot of your AP and may severely hamper your DPS. Enlightened spirit already has a lot of tanky stuff you can take and will probably be more than enough.

Marshal_Lannes
05-05-2016, 09:02 PM
You only need 3 levels for defensive stance.

Have you played with the AP yet? I feel like if your going for the tier 5's in enlightened spirit as well as defensive stance that will eat up a lot of your AP and may severely hamper your DPS. Enlightened spirit already has a lot of tanky stuff you can take and will probably be more than enough.

I like Unbong's AP breakdown: Enhancements: 35 APs ES (Shining Thru + Spirit Blast), 7 APs TS (Utterdark), 13 APs SD (Gtr Defense stance), 9 APs KotC (Div Might), 16 APs BF (Recon SLA+PotF)

APs are no doubt tight.

Marshal_Lannes
05-17-2016, 02:32 AM
I think I have come up with a split I like:

15 Warlock/3 Paladin/2 Fighter

Feats
1) THF
3) Adm Body
6) Maximize
9) Empower
12) Quicken
15) IC Slash
18) Force of Personality/Extend/Power Attack
F1) ITHF
F2) GTHF
21) Epic Eld Blast
24) Intensify
26) Epic Arcane Eld Blast
27) Overwhelming Crit
28) Hellball
29) Arcane Warrior
30) Scion of Fire, Feywild or Celestia

Attacks - burst/burst/hellball/melee. I really only need one level of fighter to fit in all my feats as you can see from the L18 choices I am not sold on any one of those, however going 4 paladin (maybe divine favor) or 16 warlock really doesn't do anything (not too thrilled with any of the L6 spells). Force of Personality would give me better saves obviously, extend makes displacement last longer and power attack a bit more umph. APs pretty much close to what Unbong lays out above. Should have very good saves, fantastic survivability with reconstruct and shining thru and decent mixed DPS.

JOTMON
05-17-2016, 08:19 AM
I found Melee has a poor synergy with warlock.

The ES aura works fine, but there is a hiccup with burst/blast that screws up melee swings and viseversa.. have to pause for half a second between attacking and bursting.
None of the other eldritch stanced attacks are useful since they override your weapons.

and after all that I was doing just as much damage just doing burst/blast/aura than I was trying to switch between them and swinging the sword.

Would have been nice to see an eldritch blades.. something like the druid blades, but based on Eldritch power where the energy was focussed into the Eldritch weapons instead of pewpew style.

Vish
05-17-2016, 09:21 AM
I've ran a 15/4/1 lock pally ftr with bastard sword and skyvault. Best monster I've built...

I've found it's very easy to melee with auto attack on, and just attack until bursts are up, pop them off, and back to auto attack.
And I've found my weapon damage to be as good as bursts. Meaning the bursts take them down some and it's easy to finish with melee.

But your going wf thf, so you'll lose the defense for probably more melee offense. I wouldn't take cleaves, too much to cycle in with bursts.

My build was +4 con, +3 cha split. With primary a con build running in us. Str starting was 16, with no DM, and I found it easy to hit stuff.
I ran tier 5 es, and tier 4 sacred d, for +6 con and +50%ac.
Was quite a tank with 3000 hp. And did pretty good damage.

If you go str, then you'll lose some tankiness, for prob only a moderate dps gain.

But with any lock build, it should be fun and easy. Gl.

Sthax
05-17-2016, 10:20 AM
I'm tinkering around with a pally lock at.

I went with 14 lock 4 pally 2 fight purple dragon human thingy.
Full ES for the burst's and hp buff. Also sacred defender for extra survivability. +6 con and str and what not. Medium armor. Also get the cha to str buff. And tensers wich gives a nice high strength.
Getting the full thf line and empower maximize.
Skills heal,perform,umd,spellcraft.
Lol 16 now and can solo all q''s on epic and surviving with the best of them in hard q''s.
I like it I can heal my mates and trow a res while aoe tanking all mobs. Pretty nice IMHO

Marshal_Lannes
05-18-2016, 12:18 PM
My BF debuted at 11 Warlock/3 Paladin/1 Figther. Wow, he just crushes content. GH a joke. Never even had to use a reconstruct. Trial of the Archons was smashed. Just a very good build thus far. I can't believe some people have complained that it's hard to melee in ES - it certainly is not. For grouped mobs I go Evards, burst, burst, melee what's left.

Luxgolg
05-26-2016, 06:05 PM
Well, in that case, step into my parlor... :cool:

BF pal 14 / war 6
Feats: Addy Body (1), Power Atk (3), Max (6), IC:Slash (9), Emp (12), THF (15), ITHF (18), GTHF (21), Intensify (24), eArcane EB (26), OC (27), PTHF or PTWF (28), Dire Charge (29), ??? (30), Scion of ??? (30)
Enhancements: 35 APs ES (Shining Thru + Spirit Blast), 7 APs TS (Utterdark), 13 APs SD (Gtr Defense stance), 9 APs KotC (Div Might), 16 APs BF (Recon SLA+PotF)
ED: Div Crusader with usual DPS Twists

For our purposes, I'm ignoring Pact dmg and presuming this is a STR-based melee build; although CHA-based might be interesting if you twist Energy Burst Fire. Dire Charge into mobs, fire off your AoEs (two ES bursts + Consecration), melee the rest until cooldowns run out. Aura ticks every 4 seconds; if I'm reading the wiki right, you can take eArcane EB ED feat with any build, not just warlock 12+ like epic Eldritch Blast feat.

Starting stats for a 32pt build? I'm going to try this methinks

Marshal_Lannes
05-28-2016, 11:11 AM
I actually ended up going 14 Warlock/4 Paladin/2 Fighter, my starting stats (34) were

STR 16
CON 16
CHA 18
INT 12

Adjust as you see fit. I will say skill points were tight for me, but I didn't have any INT tomes either. If you are going more melee based I'd drop CHA down 2 to 4 points.

apocaladle
09-29-2016, 11:43 AM
I am currently doing a life of bladeforged s&b 5 warlock 1 pally 14 fighter

shining through and full tank turtle

only a few past lives at lvl 20 with sentinel destiny with **** gear I can sustain 2000+ hp 240+ prr 140+mrr 140 AC displacement 10% incorp and other stuff

Nothing can kill me ( even on EE) which is fun but man that dps I lost it somewhere back in heroics and have yet to find it again. In murder by night elite (I was lvl 18) at the boss I had to afk with auto attack on because I got bored, had a snack and when I got back he was still not dead, that said with zero buffs aside from ship/toggles he literally could not kill me.

tanky and survivable - (10/10)

dps - (1/10)

JOTMON
09-29-2016, 12:05 PM
I am currently doing a life of bladeforged s&b 5 warlock 1 pally 14 fighter

shining through and full tank turtle

only a few past lives at lvl 20 with sentinel destiny with **** gear I can sustain 2000+ hp 240+ prr 140+mrr 140 AC displacement 10% incorp and other stuff

Nothing can kill me ( even on EE) which is fun but man that dps I lost it somewhere back in heroics and have yet to find it again. In murder by night elite (I was lvl 18) at the boss I had to afk with auto attack on because I got bored, had a snack and when I got back he was still not dead, that said with zero buffs aside from ship/toggles he literally could not kill me.

tanky and survivable - (10/10)

dps - (1/10)

Rumor has it a nerf is coming. expect the tank/survivablility to drop and no cahng to the DPS..


Relatively small, targeted balance adjustments to Warlock (especially Enlightened Spirit) are in the works for sometime after U32.

Which I interpreted as enjoy your warlocks now.. we are seriously screwing them over soon..