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Broprichniki
04-27-2016, 05:40 AM
Summary of build:
Dwarf
10 Fighter, 8 Paladin, 2 Monk
CON to damage (Greataxe)
High AOE DPS, high HP, decent dodge
Very high saves (all 60+, 80+ fort)
Monk Earth Stance (with Master of Forms), Paladin Sacred Defender Stance, Power Attack Stance

This build is designed to run into a big group of EH mobs and run out a soon after with them all dead and you at pretty much full HP. This build does work on Epic Elite, though the lack of PRR (~80 normally, 110 with Blitz active) can be an issue for higher level EE quests, especially if you are trying to solo.

It's a good way to get through a fighter life. It can also be easily tweaked to be a Paladin life instead.

The point of having so many action boosts- even ones that aren't really that good (saves boost, attack boost)- is to benefit from combat brute, which increases damage when you have an action boost active.

Enhancements:
18 Dwarf: 4 cores, 3x Dwarven Tactics, Axe Training -> Throw Your Weight Around (CON to damage)
34 Kensei
16 Sacred Defender
11 Knight of the Chalice
1 Shintao: 1 core

http://i86.servimg.com/u/f86/15/26/57/68/enhanc10.jpg

36 point build with full +7 tomes shown. All level up stats go to Con. Con should be around 60, more or less depending on availability of gear.

There is an error in the spreadsheet. Dex should be 17, not 27. 10 Dex is not instantly gained at level 16.
http://i86.servimg.com/u/f86/15/26/57/68/fightp10.png

For Legendary Dreadnought, the point buy is as follows:
T1: 2 ranks of Legendary Tactics, +1 Constitution
T2: 3 ranks of Momentum Swing, Improved Power Attack
T3: Lay Waste, 3 ranks of critical damage, +1 Constitution
T4: +1 Constitution
T5: Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
T6: Master's Blitz (Resistance), Headman's Chop

Suggested weapon: Epic Antique Greataxe

You can start using it right at level 20, it breaks DR/Good, it has Metalline, it deals extra force damage (which isn't resisted by most enemies), and has a high base damage die (2[1d20]) which combines well with cleaves.

I ran through this build on my last life (before TRing on my way to completionist) and I really enjoyed playing it from start to finish. If anyone has any suggestions for improving damage output or increasing defence, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

the_one_dwarfforged
04-27-2016, 07:02 AM
This build is designed to run into a big group of EH mobs and run out a soon after with them all dead and you at pretty much full HP. This build does work on Epic Elite, though the lack of PRR (~80 normally, 110 with Blitz active) can be an issue for higher level EE quests, especially if you are trying to solo.

It's a good way to get through a fighter life. It can also be easily tweaked to be a Paladin life instead.

I ran through this build on my last life (before TRing on my way to completionist) and I really enjoyed playing it from start to finish. If anyone has any suggestions for improving damage output or increasing defence, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

this level split is really bad.

10 is a pointless number of fighter levels, 8 is a pointless number of paladin levels.

ignoring the upcoming kensei pass, there are a couple ways to fix this.

stop at either 8 fighter or continue to 12. 12 fighter gets you powersurge (which you may or may not care about), greater weapon spec, and another feat.

stop paladin at level 2. if it was really a big deal to you, you could stop at 4 for dm without burning a twist slot, but i think thats a bad trade. also, if youre going con to dmg then theres seriously no reason in going past 2 paladin. 3-8 on this build are mostly dead weight.

6 monk lets you get shadowveil which is pretty great, and ninja poison which is also pretty great.


basically imo this is really just a 12/6/2, except really bad. i think that is demonstrated by the eh comment. even changing only from 10/8/2 to 8/6/6 will give you a ton of advantages. you will gain a feat, shadowveil, ninja poison, 10% runspeed. and the only negative is a slightly lower cap on your cha to saves which will probably have 0% impact on anything. also i seriously recommend switching from con to dmg to str to dmg on a fighter build with dm.

additionally some of your feat and enhancement choices are really ...not good... i dont think what you are getting out of the kotc tree is worth 11 points, especially t1 dmg boost, may as well not even bother if its only going to be t1, and cost you 11 points. the paladin cleave is also really not worth the points considering you already had to spend the feat on regular cleave. the paladin aura bonuses are really inefficient ways to spend your ap. basically its 6 ap for +3 saves on a build with an additional stat added to saves, thats straight up overkill (and its only +3, not a big deal). also, switch your ranks of tactics from kensei into extra boosts and anything else, since youre not a str build. as far as feats go, i think if youre going to focus so much on buffing your saves scores, you shouldnt bother with epic reflexes/fort, those could be spent on things that add more to your character than marginal stat buffs and "immunities" that only apply less than 5% of the time youre playing the game. i also think guardian angel is a poor feat choice because i dont think youre going to have such a high wisdom and its another very circumstantial thing anyway. those feats all seems like planning for failure, why not plan for success instead? if you switched to even just an 8/6/6 with the same classes, you would gain a feat, because while youd lose the level 10 fighter feat you would gain a monk feat and not have to spend a feat on adept of forms. the dodge line could be replaced with more mp, but thats more of a grey area, so i guess those feats are ok even though i personally wouldnt take them. in dreadnaught you are spending your ap very poorly. drop the tactics since its a con build, pick up 3 ranks of extra ab. drop 1 or 2 con (or whatever it takes really) and pick up 3 ranks of dmg boost. the ld dmg boost is still a 30% bonus, not +30 mp, so its a bit more effective for adding dmg and means you wont be tempted to throw away points into kotc. also its going to be a lot more dmg than what 2 con is going to give you. +1 dmg or +30% dmg, hmmm...


personally if i was doing a fighter build just for the past life before the kensei pass, im not sure whether i would do 12/6/2 ftr/mnk/pal, 20 ftr, or 12/6/2 ftr/brb/fvs or rog build. would depend on whether i was doing only heroic, or if i was doing full heroic and epic, or only iconic. and also how i felt like doing that life.

Broprichniki
04-27-2016, 07:57 AM
this level split is really bad.

10 is a pointless number of fighter levels, 8 is a pointless number of paladin levels.

ignoring the upcoming kensei pass, there are a couple ways to fix this.

stop at either 8 fighter or continue to 12. 12 fighter gets you powersurge (which you may or may not care about), greater weapon spec, and another feat.

stop paladin at level 2. if it was really a big deal to you, you could stop at 4 for dm without burning a twist slot, but i think thats a bad trade. also, if youre going con to dmg then theres seriously no reason in going past 2 paladin. 3-8 on this build are mostly dead weight.

6 monk lets you get shadowveil which is pretty great, and ninja poison which is also pretty great.


basically imo this is really just a 12/6/2, except really bad. i think that is demonstrated by the eh comment. even changing only from 10/8/2 to 8/6/6 will give you a ton of advantages. you will gain two feats, shadowveil, ninja poison, 10% runspeed. and the only negative is a slightly lower cap on your cha to saves which will probably have 0% impact on anything. also i seriously recommend switching from con to dmg to str to dmg on a fighter build with dm.

i also find some of the feat choices to be highly questionable, but those are less significant, so, to each their own i guess.

You need at least 3 Paladin for Sacred Defender, otherwise you lose out on 25 PRR/MRR. I don't know why I chose 8- I think it had to do with 2nd level spells, but all the 2nd level Paladin spells are garbage.

I can definitely see how 12/6/2 would be much better, but how would I gain more damage/defence from 8/6/6?

Where would I drop enhancements to get the points for Ninja Spy?

Also, is it worth the HP loss to switch to STR to damage?

Which feat choices specifically do you find questionable? I think Magical Training is probably one of them and if I do this build again that's one I'd most likely drop.

Anyhow, thanks for all the help.

P.S. I find that EE generally isn't worth it in terms of EXP/minute so I just tear through EH quests. I'm not saying this build isn't capable of EE, it's just that EH is easier, of course. I performed very well in EE on this build both solo and grouped- I just had to heal much more often due to not having enough defence.

unbongwah
04-27-2016, 09:19 AM
stop paladin at level 2. if it was really a big deal to you, you could stop at 4 for dm without burning a twist slot, but i think thats a bad trade.
Prior to the Divine Grace nerf, I would've agreed. Now, though, going from pal 2 to 4 gets you up to +6 to saves, saves you a Twist slot (Bane of Undeath), and gains access to metamagics, Emp Heal being the useful one to a fleshy build.

You need at least 3 Paladin for Sacred Defender, otherwise you lose out on 25 PRR/MRR.
Sacred Defender and Stalwart D. are pretty much interchangeable. The main difference is Sacred D. has extra LoHs and Pos Spellpower while Stalwart D. has some goodies aimed at S&B builds (not relevant here, ofc).

I can definitely see how 12/6/2 would be much better, but how would I gain more damage/defence from 8/6/6?
Going from monk 2 to monk 6 nets you two extra feats (Adept of Forms and monk bonus feat) as well as access to Shadow Veil (25% Incorporeality), which is a big boost to your defenses.

Where would I drop enhancements to get the points for Ninja Spy?
33 APs Kensei (Keen Edge + One w/Blade), 6 APs SD (defensive stance +25 PRR/MRR), 11 APs Ninja (Shadow Veil), 10+ APs KotC (Div Might, Exalted Cleave) - that leaves up to 20 APs to tweak things. TYWA isn't worth the AP cost most of the time, IMO, particularly if you access to Div Might.

Enoach
04-27-2016, 09:49 AM
Keeping in mind that while the 7th level does not bring any class advancement and the 8th level only adds 2nd level spells of which most can be replaced with gear, potions or ship buffs, these levels are not exactly worthless and need to be judge based on their opportunity costs for the build

Each Level adds +15 to your spell point pool (30 SP total)
8th Level you gain an additional Fortitude Save (Minimal and easily overcome)

Each Level factors into your Smite Evil damage calculation...
This is missed and it can be confusing on How Charisma and Paladin levels effect the build
With Smite Evil your Charisma Modifier x2 improves your TO HIT
But it is your paladin level that determines the extra Damage.
7+(3*6 Levels) = 25
7+(3*7 Levels) = 28
7+(3*8 Levels) = 31

Lay on Hands is also calculated based on Paladin Level (10+Paladin Level) * Charisma Mod. So depending on where you see your primary source of healing Levels 7 and 8 could add additional Output that is improved further by healing amplification.

I am not saying your build needs levels 7 & 8, just pointing out factually what you will be giving up so you can make a better judgment yourself.

-------
One advantage to 6 Levels of Monk is that you get the Feat Adept of Forms. Which means you would want to swap out Adept of Forms if you have taken it earlier and you don't want to pick up Master of Forms until after your 6th Monk level.

Swapping two levels of Fighter to Monk and two levels of Paladin for Monk will be a wash as the Fighter Bonus and Monk Martial Arts feats overlap well enough you will still be able to get the feats you want. Also as noted above you will get Adept of Forms as a 6th Level monk. Make sure you do a feat swap prior to taking the 6th level of monk if you have taken Adept of forms earlier. Also, make sure you don't take Master of Forms until your 6th level of Monk.

Another thing you will get with the additional Monk levels is a Philosophy. These are Ki generated finishing moves. Since many of the Dark Monk abilities have saves, I recommend the Balance (Light) philosophy. You will gain a finishing moves for example Healing (AoE) , an immunity to stun (60 seconds) (AoE), blur effect (60 seconds) (AoE), Untyped +2 to Attack/Saves/Skills (60 seconds) (AoE)

These buffs cannot be dispelled by anti magic.

Grasp of the Dragon (Stun immunity) is very useful in places where stun type effects are thrown around in mass - Cleric Sound burst and Artificers are notorious for actually stunning a party to death.

Shadow Fade in the Assassin Tree is a Ki generated Incorporeal ability that is better then gear. It's short duration should not be a hindrance as you should be able to generate enough Ki to keep it going for combat.

Broprichniki
04-27-2016, 04:34 PM
Prior to the Divine Grace nerf, I would've agreed. Now, though, going from pal 2 to 4 gets you up to +6 to saves, saves you a Twist slot (Bane of Undeath), and gains access to metamagics, Emp Heal being the useful one to a fleshy build.

Sacred Defender and Stalwart D. are pretty much interchangeable. The main difference is Sacred D. has extra LoHs and Pos Spellpower while Stalwart D. has some goodies aimed at S&B builds (not relevant here, ofc).

Going from monk 2 to monk 6 nets you two extra feats (Adept of Forms and monk bonus feat) as well as access to Shadow Veil (25% Incorporeality), which is a big boost to your defenses.

33 APs Kensei (Keen Edge + One w/Blade), 6 APs SD (defensive stance +25 PRR/MRR), 11 APs Ninja (Shadow Veil), 10+ APs KotC (Div Might, Exalted Cleave) - that leaves up to 20 APs to tweak things. TYWA isn't worth the AP cost most of the time, IMO, particularly if you access to Div Might.

Thanks. That all make sense.

I think when I come back to this build, I'll go 8 Fighter/6 Paladin/6 Monk, or perhaps 10 Fighter/6 Monk/4 Paladin for the extra feat, since 6 Paladin doesn't get too much.

In my previous life, I was able to solo things like EE Battle for Eveningstar at level, but not EE Breaking the Ranks. Maybe with these changes I'll be able to do the latter as well. =)

I'm almost tempted to TR into this in anticipation of the Kensei buff, even though I need 10 more past lives and I've already got a fighter life.

Again, thank you and everyone else who contributed.

Broprichniki
04-27-2016, 11:00 PM
By the way, Dwarfforged, who is your Nod toon?

the_one_dwarfforged
04-27-2016, 11:21 PM
Prior to the Divine Grace nerf, I would've agreed. Now, though, going from pal 2 to 4 gets you up to +6 to saves, saves you a Twist slot (Bane of Undeath), and gains access to metamagics, Emp Heal being the useful one to a fleshy build.

i think theres more to going 4 pally than there used to be, sure. but personally i wouldnt sacrifice power surge for it if going str build, and if going con build then the twist is moot. also if str build, twists have never been more available and i dont think its really worth two class levels for that (although, yea its not juuust that...).


I'm almost tempted to TR into this in anticipation of the Kensei buff, even though I need 10 more past lives and I've already got a fighter life.

50% of the buff to kensei is in power surge. on a divine might build, or hell even on a con build, there is no way you want to lose that once it goes live.


By the way, Dwarfforged, who is your Nod toon?

nod?

Broprichniki
04-28-2016, 12:01 AM
i think theres more to going 4 pally than there used to be, sure. but personally i wouldnt sacrifice power surge for it if going str build, and if going con build then the twist is moot. also if str build, twists have never been more available and i dont think its really worth two class levels for that (although, yea its not juuust that...).



50% of the buff to kensei is in power surge. on a divine might build, or hell even on a con build, there is no way you want to lose that once it goes live.



nod?

I've just looked at the upcoming changes and I'm very excited.

It looks like they dropped most of the prerequisites for being centered. They also increased the damage bonus for your Focus weapons, especially for Two Handers. At first I didn't understand the Power Surge buff but then I realised it was changed to give a bonus to all stats, not just STR. That will be interesting.

As for Nod, I was referring to the Nodiatis Weapon Master link in your signature. I assumed you played at one point.

the_one_dwarfforged
04-28-2016, 12:57 AM
As for Nod, I was referring to the Nodiatis Weapon Master link in your signature. I assumed you played at one point.

oh, i just saw it enough times that i clicked it and did the thing and linked it for ***** and giggles, cause it got me pretty much exactly right.