PDA

View Full Version : Re-Revisiting the Dwarven Defender for New Players (U29)



unbongwah
02-20-2016, 03:13 PM
This thread replaces my last Dwarven Defender thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/430026-Revisiting-the-Dwarven-Defender). The build goal is the same: a classic S&B pure fighter using dwarven racial bonuses as much as possible.

EDIT (06/16/16): the recent buffs to Kensei have given pure fighters a badly-needed buff to melee DPS; that's the good news. The bad news is this strains APs further, making it debatable whether one should invest heavily into dwarf racial tree at all. But without those racial bonuses, you're better off with human for all the usual reasons. So let's look at two different builds and their differing philosophies.

Kundarak Fortress (28-pt F2P build)

This build focuses on DPS as much as possible for a S&B ftr, with a decent side of tactics. To that end, I max out Dwarf Fortress for +7% S&B DPS; take T5 Kensei + capstone which my back-of-envelope math (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475847-pure-fighter-for-soloing?p=5831634&viewfull=1#post5831634) suggests is actually better DPS than T5 Vanguard + capstone (despite the lower atk speed); while still spending 21 APs in VG for +10% atk speed. The downside to this approach is I don't have enough APs left over for Stalwart Defender; I take Toughness+eToughness in part to compensate for not having Tenacious Defense (+20% HPs), although I could just as easily drop those for more DPS or tactics feats instead. In fact, I was half-tempted to go FotW instead of LD, just for the LULZ of Adrenaline + Good Death on a S&B "tank." ;)

Kundarak Fortress
Fighter 20
True Neutral Dwarf


Stats
28pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 16 +2 4: STR
Dexterity 12 +1 8: STR
Constitution 18 +3 12: STR
Intelligence 12 +1 16: STR
Wisdom 8 20: STR
Charisma 6 24: STR
28: STR

Skills
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Intim 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Balance 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
12 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3


Feats

1 : Power Attack
1 Fighter: Cleave
2 Fighter: Shield Mastery
3 : Two Handed Fighting
4 Fighter: Great Cleave
6 : Improved Two Handed Fighting
6 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing
8 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
10 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Slashing
12 : Greater Two Handed Fighting
12 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
14 Fighter: Heavy Armor Champion OR Improved Shield Bash
15 : Toughness
16 Fighter: Tactical Supremacy
18 : Stunning Blow OR Improved Trip
18 Fighter: Combat Expertise
20 Fighter: Precision
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Bulwark of Defense
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic : Tactical Mastery OR Heavy Armor Master
30 Swap : Epic Toughness replaces Bulwark of Defense
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Plane of Earth


Enhancements (80 AP)

Kensei (41 AP)


Kensei Focus: Axes, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge, One Cut, Alacrity

Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
Weapon Group Specialization
Weapon Group Specialization, Shattering Strike III, Strength
Weapon Group Specialization, Strike at the Heart, Opportunity Attack, Liquid Courage, Strength
A Good Death: Melee, Weapon Master, One with the Blade, Deadly Strike, Keen Edge



Vanguard (21 AP)


To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II

Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III
Shield Specialization, Stunning Shield I
Shield Specialization, Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark, Strength



Dwarf (18 AP)


Dwarven Toughness

Iron Stomach III, Axe Training
Child of the Mountain III
Stand Like Stone III
Dwarf Fortress III



Leveling Guide


Ken0 Kensei Focus: Axes; Ken1 Haste Boost I, II, III
Ken1 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken1 Extra Action Boost I
Ken0 Spiritual Bond; Van0 To the Fore!; Van1 Shield Specialization
Van1 Shield Smash I, II; Van0 Shield Combat I; Van1 Shield Smash III
Van2 Stunning Shield I; Ken1 Extra Action Boost II; Ken3 Shattering Strike I
Ken0 Strike with No Thought; Van2 Shield Specialization; Van0 Vicious Shield I
Ken2 Weapon Group Specialization; Van3 Fatal Bulwark
Ken3 Strength; Ken1 Extra Action Boost III
Ken3 Shattering Strike II; Ken4 Opportunity Attack
Ken4 Liquid Courage; Ken3 Weapon Group Specialization
Ken4 Strike at the Heart; Ken3 Shattering Strike III; (Bank 2 AP)
Ken0 Power Surge; Ken5 One with the Blade; Ken5 Keen Edge; Ken4 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken5 Weapon Master
Ken5 A Good Death: Melee; Ken5 Deadly Strike; Van3 Shield Specialization
Van3 Follow Up I, II, III
Van3 Strength; Van0 Shield Combat II; Ken4 Strength
Dwf0 Dwarven Toughness; Dwf1 Iron Stomach I, II, III
Dwf1 Axe Training; Dwf2 Child of the Mountain I
Ken0 One Cut; Dwf2 Child of the Mountain II; Dwf3 Stand Like Stone I
Dwf3 Stand Like Stone II; Dwf2 Child of the Mountain III; Dwf3 Stand Like Stone III
Ken0 Alacrity; Dwf4 Dwarf Fortress I, II, III



Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought


Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Combat Expertise, Imp. Power Attack
Lay Waste
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop


Twists of Fate (30 fate points)


Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Legendary Shield Mastery (Tier 2 Sentinel)
Primal Scream (Tier 1 Fury)



Kundarak Sentinel

On the flip side we have this build, which emphasizes survivability over DPS: focused on CON + TYWA, while still spending 21 APs on VG. Taking TYWA eats up 18 APs, though, so I don't have enough for Kensei, in particular Strike w/No Thought (+1 crit multiplier). Not bothering with a heroic leveling guide, as this is more of an epic / endgame-focused build.

Kundarak Sentinel
Fighter 20
Chaotic Good Dwarf


Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 13 +4 4: CON
Dexterity 9 +4 8: CON
Constitution 20 +4 12: CON
Intelligence 16 +4 16: CON
Wisdom 8 20: CON
Charisma 10 +3 24: CON
28: CON

Skills
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Intim 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Heal 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Spellcr 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Search 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Balance 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
20 5 5 5 5 5 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 7 7 7 7 7 7


Feats

1 : Power Attack
1 Fighter: Cleave
2 Fighter: Shield Mastery
3 : Insightful Reflexes
4 Fighter: Great Cleave
6 : Toughness
6 Fighter: Combat Expertise
8 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
10 Fighter: Two Handed Fighting
12 : Force of Personality
12 Fighter: Heavy Armor Master
14 Fighter: Heavy Armor Champion
15 : Shield Deflection OR Improved Shield Bash
16 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
18 : Magical Training
18 Fighter: Greater Two Handed Fighting
20 Fighter: Precision
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Epic Toughness
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting OR Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Deific Warding
30 Epic : Blinding Speed OR Heavy Armor Combatant
30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Earth OR Celestia


Enhancements (80 AP)

Stalwart Defender (41 AP)


Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance, Stand Fast, Defensive Sweep, Last Stand


Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery III
Resilient Defense III, Stalwart Shield Mastery III, Armor Expertise III
Inciting Defense I, Tenacious Defense III, Shield Expertise III
Swift Defense, Hardy Defense III, Reinforced Armor III
Block and Cut III, Reinforced Shield III



Vanguard (21 AP)


To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II


Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III
Stunning Shield I, Missile Shield III, Melee Power Boost III
Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark



Dwarf (18 AP)


Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Constitution, Dwarven Toughness II, Dwarven Constitution II


Axe Training, Dwarven Armor Mastery III
Axe Training
Axe Training
Axe Training, Throw Your Weight Around




Destiny (24 AP)

Unyielding Sentinel


Commanding Presence I, Brace for Impact II, Shield Prowess III
Block Energy III, Legendary Shield Mastery III
Renewal III
Purify Weapon
Strength of Vitality III
Undying Vanguard


Twists of Fate (27 fate points)


Sacred Ground (Tier 3 Crusader)
Consecration (Tier 2 Crusader)
Imp. Combat Expertise (Tier 2 Dreadnought)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
Endless Faith (Tier 1 Exalted)

unbongwah
02-20-2016, 03:13 PM
Gear Recommendations

So here are the things you need to bear in mind when gearing up your tank:

Stat bonuses: STR & CON are you primary stats, of course, for DPS & HPs, respectively. For the Harper Defender, INT is also important, as it boosts Reflex saves and Know the Angles; while for the F2P, DEX is secondary for Reflex saves. CHA boosts your Intimidate and UMD, so it's a tertiary stat. WIS boosts your Will saves, but since WIS is a dump stat, you'll be relying more on gear & buffs for protection.
DPS: Deadly, Speed / Alacrity, doublestrike, and Seeker are all important. When you start using tactics (Stunning Blow et al), you'll also need to invest in DC bonuses, like Combat Mastery and Stunning.
Survivability: False Life + Vitality boost your HPs; Resistance + Parrying / Riposte items boost your saving throws (you can also use Stability gear since this build is TN); Fortification protects against critical hits & sneak atks; DR & PRR protects against physical dmg; while energy resists & MRR protect against elemental / magical dmg.

unbongwah
02-20-2016, 03:14 PM
EDIT: U29 builds - obsolete, archived for posterity.

Fresh Off the Korthos Boat (28-pt F2P build)


Dwarven Defender (U29)
Fighter 20
True Neutral Dwarf


Stats
28pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 16 4: STR
Dexterity 12 +1 8: STR
Constitution 18 +3 12: STR
Intelligence 12 +1 16: STR
Wisdom 8 20: STR
Charisma 6 24: STR
28: STR

Skills
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Intim 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Heal 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
12 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3


Feats

1 : Power Attack
1 Fighter: Shield Mastery
2 Fighter: Cleave
3 : Two Handed Fighting
4 Fighter: Great Cleave
6 : Improved Two Handed Fighting
6 Fighter: Stunning Blow
8 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
10 Fighter: Improved Shield Bash
12 : Greater Two Handed Fighting
12 Fighter: Tactical Mastery
14 Fighter: Heavy Armor Champion
15 : Heavy Armor Master
16 Fighter: Tactical Supremacy
18 : Toughness
18 Fighter: Combat Expertise
20 Fighter: Precision
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Magical Training
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting OR Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic : Epic Toughness
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Enhancements (80 AP)

Vanguard (41 AP)


To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion

Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III
Shield Specialization, Brutality III, Stunning Shield III, Missile Shield III, Melee Power Boost III
Shield Specialization, Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark
(none)
Shield to the Face, Disorienting Smash II, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength



Stalwart Defender (21 AP)


Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance

Durable Defense III, Threatening Countenance III
Resilient Defense III
Inciting Defense III, Tenacious Defense III, Strength
Swift Defense



Dwarf (18 AP)


Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Constitution

Axe Training
Dwarven Tactics I, Child of the Mountain III
Stand Like Stone III
Dwarf Fortress III



Leveling Guide


Van0 To the Fore!; Van1 Shield Smash I, II
Van1 Shield Specialization; SD0 Toughness; SD1 Threatening Countenance I; (Bank 1 AP)
Van0 Shield Combat I; SD1 Durable Defense I, II, III; SD0 Stalwart Defense
Van1 Shield Smash III; Van2 Stunning Shield I, II, III
Van2 Missile Shield I; Van2 Melee Power Boost I, II, III
Van0 Vicious Shield I; Van3 Follow Up I, II, III
SD2 Resilient Defense I, II, III; SD1 Threatening Countenance II
SD3 Tenacious Defense I, II, III
Van2 Shield Specialization; Van3 Shield Specialization; Van2 Missile Shield II
Van2 Missile Shield III; Van3 Fatal Bulwark; Van2 Brutality I
Van2 Brutality II, III; SD0 Overbalance; (Bank 1 AP)
Van0 Shield Combat II; Van5 Armored Strength; Van5 Shield to the Face
Van5 Shield Charge I, II, III; Van5 Disorienting Smash I
Van5 Disorienting Smash II; SD3 Strength; SD3 Inciting Defense I
SD3 Inciting Defense II, III; SD1 Threatening Countenance III; SD4 Swift Defense
Dwf0 Dwarven Toughness; Dwf0 Dwarven Constitution
Dwf1 Axe Training; Dwf2 Child of the Mountain I; Dwf2 Dwarven Tactics I
Van0 Vicious Shield II; Dwf2 Child of the Mountain II; Dwf3 Stand Like Stone I
Dwf3 Stand Like Stone II; Dwf2 Child of the Mountain III; Dwf3 Stand Like Stone III
Van0 Shield Champion; Dwf4 Dwarf Fortress I, II, III



Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought


Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Combat Expertise, Imp. Power Attack
Critical Damage I
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop


Twists of Fate (22 fate points)


Sacred Ground (Tier 3 Crusader)
Consecration (Tier 2 Crusader)
Legendary Shield Mastery (Tier 2 Sentinel)
Endless Faith (Tier 1 Exalted)



This build embraces the S&B lifestyle from the very beginning; you need to use dwarven axes to get glancing blows. I'm still getting the hang of the leveling guide, but basically the priorities are: get defensive stance & Durable Defense (+25 PRR) ASAP at lvl 3; then focus most of your APs on Vanguard until lvl 12; after filling in the rest of the Stalwart D. enhancements (really want Swift Defense for +10% run speed), then you turn your attention to dwarf racial bonuses, with the final goal of Dwarf Fortress for +7% S&B DPS.

Skills: Intimidate is obvious and I always like having Use Magic Device (UMD) on all my toons if I have the skill pts to spare. I maxed out Heal for +11 Positive Spellpower to ED healing abilities; Balance is a good alternative and would be more useful for leveling. Another option would be Spellcraft to boost Spellpower if you plan to take one of the Scion of Plane of <element> feats instead of Arborea.

I took the two best tactics feats for +14 DCs and the two best armor feats for +21 PRR & MRR. The lower-level versions of these feats provide less oomph, so I omitted them. [I could squeeze out another +8 DCs by taking Tactician ED feat + the other two fighter tactics feats, I'm just not convinced it's worth the 3-feat cost.] This build will eventually have four separate stunning abilities: Stunning Blow, Stunning Shield, Shield Champion (5% chance to stun on any shield bash), and Dire Charge.

As presented, this build requires a +1 INT tome for Combat Expertise and +1 DEX tome for Precision; this provides maximum flexibility in combat stances. I backloaded the feats to give you as much time as possible to acquire those tomes, either thru loot drops or from the Auction House; likewise the +3 CON tome you need to take epic Toughness at lvl 30. Use Power Attack for 0% Fortification mobs and/or to use Momentum Swing+Lay Waste; use Precision for high-Fort targets like undead or bosses; use CE when you want to max out your AC & PRR via Imp Combat Expertise in LD.

This build will use Legendary Dreadnought (LD) most of the time; essentially you're relying on LD / Blitz DPS bonuses to do the heavy lifting to make up for weak ftr DPS. https://www.ddo.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.png The only must-have Twist is Legendary Shield Mastery for the extra doublestrike & PRR, so you'll want to grab that early on. For self-healing you'll also be relying on ED abilities. In this configuration, I took Consecration + Sacred Ground; having Magical Training feat + Endless Faith twist means Echoes of Power will regen 30 SPs, which is exactly what you need for Consecration. https://www.ddo.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.png Listed Twists are a best-case scenario, though: 22 Fate pts at lvl 30 requires 51 ED levels to unlock that many pts.

Harper Defender

This build is more advanced, as it requires Harper for Know the Angles to boost dmg & tactics DCs. I also presumed a +4 Supreme tome, in part so I could put the bare minimum into DEX & CON while still qualifying for Precision & epic Toughness, respectively; this in turn lets me put more pts into STR & INT for higher DPS, DCs, and Reflex saves. I dropped Heavy Armor Master (+9 PRR/MRR) for Insightful Reflexes; I also swapped Arborea for Plane of Water for +20 MRR and the 2d20 cold dmg. The downside is figuring out where to slot Glaciation in your endgame gear.

Not bothering to list EDs or leveling guide, as they'll basically be the same as the F2P build.


Dwarven Defender (Harper)
Fighter 20
True Neutral Dwarf


Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 18 +4 4: STR
Dexterity 9 +4 8: STR
Constitution 17 +4 12: STR
Intelligence 16 +4 16: STR
Wisdom 8 +4 20: STR
Charisma 7 +4 24: STR
28: STR

Skills
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Intim 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Heal 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Spellcr 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Search 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Balance 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
20 5 5 5 5 5 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 7 7 7 7 7 7


Feats

1 : Power Attack
1 Fighter: Shield Mastery
2 Fighter: Cleave
3 : Stunning Blow
4 Fighter: Great Cleave
6 : Insightful Reflexes
6 Fighter: Two Handed Fighting
8 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
10 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
12 : Improved Shield Bash
12 Fighter: Greater Two Handed Fighting
14 Fighter: Tactical Mastery
15 : Heavy Armor Champion
16 Fighter: Tactical Supremacy
18 : Toughness
18 Fighter: Combat Expertise
20 Fighter: Precision
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Magical Training
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic : Epic Toughness
30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Water


Enhancements (80 AP)

Vanguard (41 AP)


To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion

Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III
Shield Specialization, Brutality III, Stunning Shield III, Missile Shield III, Melee Power Boost III
Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark, Strength
(none)
Shield to the Face, Disorienting Smash II, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength



Dwarf (18 AP)


Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Constitution

Axe Training
Dwarven Tactics I, Child of the Mountain III
Stand Like Stone III
Dwarf Fortress III



Stalwart Defender (14 AP)


Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance

Durable Defense III, Threatening Countenance II
Resilient Defense III
Tenacious Defense III



Harper Agent (7 AP)


Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Versatile Adept II



EDIT: These calculations are obsolete, but they still give you some idea of what to aim for.

Melee Power (level 30)

30 epic levels
18 LD cores
10 Armored Strength (T5 Vanguard)
6 gear (Sightless (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sightless))
6 THF feat chain
72 Melee Power baseline
70 max Blitz
142 Melee Power stacked
30 Melee Power action boost
+9 Follow Up (Vanguard)
181 Melee Power burst DPS (12 secs)


PRR (level 30)

50 heavy armor with BAB 25
25 Stalwart defensive stance
21 Heavy Armor Master + Champion feats
15 tower shield
15 Improved Shield Mastery
15 Legendary Shield Mastery
10 Epic DR feat
151 PRR base (~60% reduction)
+38 Sheltering (Platemail of Celestial Avenger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Platemail_of_the_Celestial_Avenger))
+10 BAB 30 (UMD Tensers or Divine Power)
+1 Mythic Shield bonus (Demonic Slab (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Demonic_Slab))
+5 Insightful Sheltering (Circle of Malevolence (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Circle_of_Malevolence))
205 PRR buffed & geared (~67% reduction)
+20 Improved Combat Expertise
+30 Unyielding Sentinel (Heed No Pain + Unbreakable Stance)
255 PRR MAXIMUM TANKAGE!!1! (~72% reduction)

MRR (level 30)
25 Stalwart defensive stance
21 Heavy Armor Master + Champion feats
15 tower shield
61 MRR base (~38% dmg reduction)
+38 Sheltering (Platemail of Celestial Avenger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Platemail_of_the_Celestial_Avenger))
+1 Mythic Shield bonus (Demonic Slab (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Demonic_Slab))
+5 Insightful Sheltering (Circle of Malevolence (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Circle_of_Malevolence))
105 MRR geared (~51% dmg reduction)
+20 Scion of Plane of Water
125 MRR (~55.5% dmg reduction)

So an extra 4.5% magical dmg reduction is a good incentive to consider Plane of Water instead of Arborea. The 2d20 cold dmg and +200 SPs don't hurt either, the only downside being having to figure out where to slot Glaciation Spellpower to boost that cold dmg.

FranOhmsford
02-20-2016, 06:18 PM
Paladin is a F2P Class so why not put up Paladin/Ftr mix builds for newbies?

14 Paladin / 6 Fighter {extra feats on a Pally base}
16 Fighter / 4 Paladin {Access to KotC T4}
12 Fighter / 5 Paladin / 3 Rogue {Access to KotC T5, Trap Skills, Evasion and 2d6 Sneak Attck bonus}.

unbongwah
02-20-2016, 06:57 PM
Paladin is a F2P Class so why not put up Paladin/Ftr mix builds for newbies?
Multiclassing means giving up the Vanguard capstone; and the VG cap is very very nice. :)

Plus I've already got a pure pally build; now I wanted to update the pure ftr build.

And frankly, once you start down the paladin path, you might as well stick with it.

FranOhmsford
02-21-2016, 12:51 AM
Multiclassing means giving up the Vanguard capstone; and the VG cap is very very nice. :)

I actually prefer KotC even on a S+B build than Vanguard but that's me.


Plus I've already got a pure pally build; now I wanted to update the pure ftr build.

Oh that's fine but the thread doesn't state Pure Ftr - It states Dwarven Defender {which can be a Paladin or even a Battle Cleric.}.


And frankly, once you start down the paladin path, you might as well stick with it.

3 Feats is a strong reason to go 18/2 {4 Feats for 16/4, 17/3 may still be a decent option too.}.

Especially now that we have so many must take Epic Feats that we can't fit in a missing Heroic Feat later on.




I'm just saying that it might be nice to use this thread to show newbies all the options for a S+B Defender Build not just Pure Ftr.

FranOhmsford
02-21-2016, 12:59 AM
Just noticed the Epic stuff - Are you sure this build is for "new" players?

4 twists? 2 T2s, 1 T3?
That's at least 3 ERs required or staying at 30 farming destinies to get!

Wouldn't US be the better option for a 1st Lifer too - I know it's considered a destiny for bads but the idea is to stay alive!

CaptainPurge
02-21-2016, 01:05 AM
It will be interesting to see how this jives after the fighter pass. Will fighter be so good that you'll be taking 0 race points unless Human in which case the double boost? History has shown that and I play a human in real life, which is sadly the drawback to not wanting to play the best race in the game (human).

kendo
02-22-2016, 10:49 AM
might be good, especially for new players, to make some suggestions on gear. what to look for on the AH or fairly easy to farm items.

one big thing to point out is that this build needs to use dwarven axes. obvious to most on the forums but, again, maybe not for those fresh off the Korthos boat :)

given there are few named D. Axes, some suggestions on what properties to look for on random loot would be helpful.

kendo
02-22-2016, 11:01 AM
Just noticed the Epic stuff - Are you sure this build is for "new" players?

4 twists? 2 T2s, 1 T3?
That's at least 3 ERs required or staying at 30 farming destinies to get!

Wouldn't US be the better option for a 1st Lifer too - I know it's considered a destiny for bads but the idea is to stay alive!

good point and might be worth suggesting to a new player that they select Grandmaster as their opening destiny. that would allow them to move over to either LD or US as a second destiny. would obviously take a little longer to open US but better starting point than Shadowdancer.

unbongwah
02-22-2016, 11:27 AM
Feel free to post your own gear suggestions etc. These build threads don't write themselves! ;)

Robbenklopper
03-16-2016, 05:45 AM
I´m a big fan of classic pure fighter in S&B, but i wanna questioning stunning shield. The benefit to MP from Follow-Up is for sure. What scares me away every time from taking SS at all is the 30 sec CD and doesn´t justifies the 3 AP to me, perhaps even if it was just 1 AP it is no contribution to combat with that CD. I really tried it a few times, and it was crab, so after testings I reset. It is nice on paper, but ... what do you say for the real gameplay?

unbongwah
03-16-2016, 04:33 PM
I´m a big fan of classic pure fighter in S&B, but i wanna questioning stunning shield. The benefit to MP from Follow-Up is for sure. What scares me away every time from taking SS at all is the 30 sec CD and doesn´t justifies the 3 AP to me, perhaps even if it was just 1 AP it is no contribution to combat with that CD.
The CD sucks, but note that you can hit a much higher DC than Stunning Blow, b/c it adds your char lvl as well as ability mod and other Stunning bonuses. Between that and the MP increase from Follow Up, it's certainly worth at least 1 AP. A stunned mob takes +50% dmg for 6 secs, so stunning shield is worth +50% dmg 20% of the time or +10% to your (single target) trash-beating DPS. Every little bit helps, esp. on pure ftr while we wait for a proper fighter pass.

count_spicoli
03-16-2016, 06:23 PM
i have one of these and went down a little different path then yours. Yours is more dps mine a little more tanky. I went con build and took all my regular level feats as toughness's which still leaves you with 11 ftr feats to boost dps and defense. At level 30 i have 3800 hp and still havent equipped any greensteel yet which will will boost me another 12%+ to get me into 4000+ range. the stalwart capstone bumps me to 8000hp and undying vanguard gets me to temp 15000hp(fun for pvp) Climbing the dwarven tree to get to throw your weight around(con to dmg) is expensive but heck in pure fighter you got the ap to burn. If there is one area a ftr gets over pally its the access to hp hp hp. I took deific warding also for the 30 prr and mrr.

Now you may not win kill any kill counts but in todays age of huge lag spikes this build is left standing every time. Even in LE content.

Robbenklopper
03-17-2016, 06:33 AM
The CD sucks, but note that you can hit a much higher DC than Stunning Blow, b/c it adds your char lvl as well as ability mod and other Stunning bonuses. Between that and the MP increase from Follow Up, it's certainly worth at least 1 AP. A stunned mob takes +50% dmg for 6 secs, so stunning shield is worth +50% dmg 20% of the time or +10% to your (single target) trash-beating DPS. Every little bit helps, esp. on pure ftr while we wait for a proper fighter pass.

Seems like I´ll Need to think again and give it a whole-saga try.

ThePrincipal
04-04-2016, 12:08 PM
i have one of these and went down a little different path then yours. Yours is more dps mine a little more tanky. I went con build and took all my regular level feats as toughness's which still leaves you with 11 ftr feats to boost dps and defense. At level 30 i have 3800 hp and still havent equipped any greensteel yet which will will boost me another 12%+ to get me into 4000+ range. the stalwart capstone bumps me to 8000hp and undying vanguard gets me to temp 15000hp(fun for pvp) Climbing the dwarven tree to get to throw your weight around(con to dmg) is expensive but heck in pure fighter you got the ap to burn. If there is one area a ftr gets over pally its the access to hp hp hp. I took deific warding also for the 30 prr and mrr.

Now you may not win kill any kill counts but in todays age of huge lag spikes this build is left standing every time. Even in LE content.

Post build plz

ccd1977
05-13-2016, 10:29 AM
Why not use TYWA and have a higher HP and get the damages from Con?

unbongwah
05-13-2016, 10:46 AM
Why not use TYWA and have a higher HP and get the damages from Con?
I can spend 18 APs in dwarf tree for Dwarf Fortress for +7% DPS; or I can spend 18 APs for TYWA and wind up with more HPs & higher fort saves. I chose the former. If I wanted both, it would cost 24 APs if I'm adding right; presuming 41 APs VG, that leaves only 15 APs for SD + Kensei + Harper (if you have it). So it's possible, but with recent buffs to Kensei, I think I would like to have more APs invested in Kensei: at least 11 APs for +1 crit multiplier. I admit I'm still mulling it over, though.

CPDK9
05-23-2016, 10:26 PM
might be good, especially for new players, to make some suggestions on gear. what to look for on the AH or fairly easy to farm items.

one big thing to point out is that this build needs to use dwarven axes. obvious to most on the forums but, again, maybe not for those fresh off the Korthos boat :)

given there are few named D. Axes, some suggestions on what properties to look for on random loot would be helpful.

At the heroic levels: farm, purchase/trade, or use shared bank with your other toons for tome and shield fragments from Orchard for Sever (d axe) and Talon (shield). Excellent combo that is well worth the time spent. Same goes for black dragon scales to forge armor.

troublegurl
06-01-2016, 06:29 PM
At the heroic levels: farm, purchase/trade, or use shared bank with your other toons for tome and shield fragments from Orchard for Sever (d axe) and Talon (shield). Excellent combo that is well worth the time spent. Same goes for black dragon scales to forge armor.


CAVEAT: right now fighters are in a bad spot compared to paladins - lower DPS and worse survivability. So the builds in this thread try to focus on the few things which ftrs have going for them - namely lots of feats including +PRR/MRR armor feats and +Tactics bonus feats - while hedging its bets against the day when ftrs finally get a DPS boost, hopefully later this year (knock on wood). If you're looking for a S&B build with great DPS right now, though, you should make a paladin; see my Sacred Vanguards thread for examples.

This thread replaces my last Dwarven Defender thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/430026-Revisiting-the-Dwarven-Defender). The build goal is the same: a classic S&B pure fighter using dwarven racial bonuses as much as possible. Ironically, I also have the same problems I did 2 1/2 years ago, namely S&B fighters are gimp compared to t3h uber builds; only this time it's pure paladins who have stolen our thunder, not the monk / kensei builds of U19. Plus c'est la change... :p

So let's get started, shall we?

Fresh Off the Korthos Boat (28-pt F2P build)


Dwarven Defender (U29)
Fighter 20
True Neutral Dwarf


Stats
28pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 16 4: STR
Dexterity 12 +1 8: STR
Constitution 18 +3 12: STR
Intelligence 12 +1 16: STR
Wisdom 8 20: STR
Charisma 6 24: STR
28: STR

Skills
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Intim 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Heal 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
12 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3


Feats

1 : Power Attack
1 Fighter: Shield Mastery
2 Fighter: Cleave
3 : Two Handed Fighting
4 Fighter: Great Cleave
6 : Improved Two Handed Fighting
6 Fighter: Stunning Blow
8 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
10 Fighter: Improved Shield Bash
12 : Greater Two Handed Fighting
12 Fighter: Tactical Mastery
14 Fighter: Heavy Armor Champion
15 : Heavy Armor Master
16 Fighter: Tactical Supremacy
18 : Toughness
18 Fighter: Combat Expertise
20 Fighter: Precision
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Magical Training
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting OR Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic : Epic Toughness
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Enhancements (80 AP)

Vanguard (41 AP)


To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion

Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III
Shield Specialization, Brutality III, Stunning Shield III, Missile Shield III, Melee Power Boost III
Shield Specialization, Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark
(none)
Shield to the Face, Disorienting Smash II, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength



Stalwart Defender (21 AP)


Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance

Durable Defense III, Threatening Countenance III
Resilient Defense III
Inciting Defense III, Tenacious Defense III, Strength
Swift Defense



Dwarf (18 AP)


Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Constitution

Axe Training
Dwarven Tactics I, Child of the Mountain III
Stand Like Stone III
Dwarf Fortress III



Leveling Guide


Van0 To the Fore!; Van1 Shield Smash I, II
Van1 Shield Specialization; SD0 Toughness; SD1 Threatening Countenance I; (Bank 1 AP)
Van0 Shield Combat I; SD1 Durable Defense I, II, III; SD0 Stalwart Defense
Van1 Shield Smash III; Van2 Stunning Shield I, II, III
Van2 Missile Shield I; Van2 Melee Power Boost I, II, III
Van0 Vicious Shield I; Van3 Follow Up I, II, III
SD2 Resilient Defense I, II, III; SD1 Threatening Countenance II
SD3 Tenacious Defense I, II, III
Van2 Shield Specialization; Van3 Shield Specialization; Van2 Missile Shield II
Van2 Missile Shield III; Van3 Fatal Bulwark; Van2 Brutality I
Van2 Brutality II, III; SD0 Overbalance; (Bank 1 AP)
Van0 Shield Combat II; Van5 Armored Strength; Van5 Shield to the Face
Van5 Shield Charge I, II, III; Van5 Disorienting Smash I
Van5 Disorienting Smash II; SD3 Strength; SD3 Inciting Defense I
SD3 Inciting Defense II, III; SD1 Threatening Countenance III; SD4 Swift Defense
Dwf0 Dwarven Toughness; Dwf0 Dwarven Constitution
Dwf1 Axe Training; Dwf2 Child of the Mountain I; Dwf2 Dwarven Tactics I
Van0 Vicious Shield II; Dwf2 Child of the Mountain II; Dwf3 Stand Like Stone I
Dwf3 Stand Like Stone II; Dwf2 Child of the Mountain III; Dwf3 Stand Like Stone III
Van0 Shield Champion; Dwf4 Dwarf Fortress I, II, III



Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought


Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Combat Expertise, Imp. Power Attack
Critical Damage I
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop


Twists of Fate (22 fate points)


Sacred Ground (Tier 3 Crusader)
Consecration (Tier 2 Crusader)
Legendary Shield Mastery (Tier 2 Sentinel)
Endless Faith (Tier 1 Exalted)



This build embraces the S&B lifestyle from the very beginning; you need to use dwarven axes to get glancing blows. I'm still getting the hang of the leveling guide, but basically the priorities are: get defensive stance & Durable Defense (+25 PRR) ASAP at lvl 3; then focus most of your APs on Vanguard until lvl 12; after filling in the rest of the Stalwart D. enhancements (really want Swift Defense for +10% run speed), then you turn your attention to dwarf racial bonuses, with the final goal of Dwarf Fortress for +7% S&B DPS.

Skills: Intimidate is obvious and I always like having Use Magic Device (UMD) on all my toons if I have the skill pts to spare. I maxed out Heal for +11 Positive Spellpower to ED healing abilities; Balance is a good alternative and would be more useful for leveling. Another option would be Spellcraft to boost Spellpower if you plan to take one of the Scion of Plane of <element> feats instead of Arborea.

I took the two best tactics feats for +14 DCs and the two best armor feats for +21 PRR & MRR. The lower-level versions of these feats provide less oomph, so I omitted them. [I could squeeze out another +8 DCs by taking Tactician ED feat + the other two fighter tactics feats, I'm just not convinced it's worth the 3-feat cost.] This build will eventually have four separate stunning abilities: Stunning Blow, Stunning Shield, Shield Champion (5% chance to stun on any shield bash), and Dire Charge.

As presented, this build requires a +1 INT tome for Combat Expertise and +1 DEX tome for Precision; this provides maximum flexibility in combat stances. I backloaded the feats to give you as much time as possible to acquire those tomes, either thru loot drops or from the Auction House; likewise the +3 CON tome you need to take epic Toughness at lvl 30. Use Power Attack for 0% Fortification mobs and/or to use Momentum Swing+Lay Waste; use Precision for high-Fort targets like undead or bosses; use CE when you want to max out your AC & PRR via Imp Combat Expertise in LD.

This build will use Legendary Dreadnought (LD) most of the time; essentially you're relying on LD / Blitz DPS bonuses to do the heavy lifting to make up for weak ftr DPS. :rolleyes: The only must-have Twist is Legendary Shield Mastery for the extra doublestrike & PRR, so you'll want to grab that early on. For self-healing you'll also be relying on ED abilities. In this configuration, I took Consecration + Sacred Ground; having Magical Training feat + Endless Faith twist means Echoes of Power will regen 30 SPs, which is exactly what you need for Consecration. :) Listed Twists are a best-case scenario, though: 22 Fate pts at lvl 30 requires 51 ED levels to unlock that many pts.

Harper Defender

This build is more advanced, as it requires Harper for Know the Angles to boost dmg & tactics DCs. I also presumed a +4 Supreme tome, in part so I could put the bare minimum into DEX & CON while still qualifying for Precision & epic Toughness, respectively; this in turn lets me put more pts into STR & INT for higher DPS, DCs, and Reflex saves. I dropped Heavy Armor Master (+9 PRR/MRR) for Insightful Reflexes; I also swapped Arborea for Plane of Water for +20 MRR and the 2d20 cold dmg. The downside is figuring out where to slot Glaciation in your endgame gear.

Not bothering to list EDs or leveling guide, as they'll basically be the same as the F2P build.


Dwarven Defender (Harper)
Fighter 20
True Neutral Dwarf


Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 18 +4 4: STR
Dexterity 9 +4 8: STR
Constitution 17 +4 12: STR
Intelligence 16 +4 16: STR
Wisdom 8 +4 20: STR
Charisma 7 +4 24: STR
28: STR

Skills
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Intim 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Heal 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Spellcr 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Search 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Balance 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
20 5 5 5 5 5 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 7 7 7 7 7 7


Feats

1 : Power Attack
1 Fighter: Shield Mastery
2 Fighter: Cleave
3 : Stunning Blow
4 Fighter: Great Cleave
6 : Insightful Reflexes
6 Fighter: Two Handed Fighting
8 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
10 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
12 : Improved Shield Bash
12 Fighter: Greater Two Handed Fighting
14 Fighter: Tactical Mastery
15 : Heavy Armor Champion
16 Fighter: Tactical Supremacy
18 : Toughness
18 Fighter: Combat Expertise
20 Fighter: Precision
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Magical Training
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic : Epic Toughness
30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Water


Enhancements (80 AP)

Vanguard (41 AP)


To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion

Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III
Shield Specialization, Brutality III, Stunning Shield III, Missile Shield III, Melee Power Boost III
Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark, Strength
(none)
Shield to the Face, Disorienting Smash II, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength



Dwarf (18 AP)


Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Constitution

Axe Training
Dwarven Tactics I, Child of the Mountain III
Stand Like Stone III
Dwarf Fortress III



Stalwart Defender (14 AP)


Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance

Durable Defense III, Threatening Countenance II
Resilient Defense III
Tenacious Defense III



Harper Agent (7 AP)


Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Versatile Adept II




Is this fighter build current with the updates to the game?

unbongwah
06-01-2016, 08:01 PM
Is this fighter build current with the updates to the game?
Not yet, although it should mostly be a matter of resetting Enhancements to take advantage of the new Kensei bonuses. Although I have been mulling (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475847-pure-fighter-for-soloing?p=5831634&viewfull=1#post5831634) the idea of a S&B Kensei: you lose atk speed and the free stun procs from the capstone by shifting APs from Vanguard into Kensei; but the extra Melee Power, One Cut's crit bonus, and +1 crit range (among other DPS bonuses) might make up for it. The problem with that approach is AP shortage; namely without Dwarf Fortress, is it really still worth being a dwarf for this build? I'm not sure...

unbongwah
06-17-2016, 11:34 AM
I've updated the OP with two new builds: one which focuses on DPS, the other which focuses on survivability. Ironically, neither focuses on Vanguard, instead going for either Kensei or Stalwart D., respectively. I'll try to come up with a more "balanced" build later, though that will probably involve ditching dwarf enhancements entirely.

skorpeon
09-20-2016, 03:27 PM
I've updated the OP with two new builds: one which focuses on DPS, the other which focuses on survivability. Ironically, neither focuses on Vanguard, instead going for either Kensei or Stalwart D., respectively. I'll try to come up with a more "balanced" build later, though that will probably involve ditching dwarf enhancements entirely.

So had any more thoughts Unbongwah? I follow your threads, I had thoughts of TYWA dwarven axe wielding fighter (TWF or even single HF). Still looking around. I basically am looking for a fighter past life so may even just do a heroic 1-20, although I came here after your post in the Iconic's for new players.

Strangely I am not a new player but somehow I tend to play new player friendly builds. Could just be the casual nature of my play? I initially wanted to play a bard (freezing) but thought I should actually get at least one fighter PL.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

cheers
Tym

Jasparion
02-20-2017, 11:10 PM
So Im having a look at the Con based Dwarf S&B as it looks like a lot of fun. Im wondering, if you are already going 18 AP in to Dwarf, whether its worth going 21 and picking up Dwarf Fortress? It says "While wearing Full Plate" but do we know if this actually requires "Full Plate" or is any Heavy Armor enough to trigger the effect?

An armor description of "Full Plate" probably means it is not worth it unless you know what your armor is made of...

If you do end up going 21 in Dwarf, Im assuming you keep 41 in SD, so Vanguard drops to 18. What would you be giving up there?

That said, by going full Con and getting +damage from TYWA, is there an issue with hitting mobs given your Strength is going to be much lower? Would it require an item with +Accuracy (which would be twice as efficient as +Strength)? Or are you hitting mobs on 2+ regardless of Strength because mob AC doesnt really matter much?

Is Power Attack or Precision a better option? Especially in Reaper - which is what this build is all about.

Cheers.

unbongwah
02-21-2017, 09:11 AM
Im wondering, if you are already going 18 AP in to Dwarf, whether its worth going 21 and picking up Dwarf Fortress? It says "While wearing Full Plate" but do we know if this actually requires "Full Plate" or is any Heavy Armor enough to trigger the effect?
I've tested it before and you must have regular full plate equipped: half-plate doesn't count, mithral full plate doesn't count.

If you do end up going 21 in Dwarf, Im assuming you keep 41 in SD, so Vanguard drops to 18. What would you be giving up there?
VG cores thru Vicious Shield I (+5% atk speed, +20% shield bash proc chance), Fatal Bulwark, and Follow Up are 16 APs; although if I'm adding right, 41 SD / 24 dwarf / 15 VG is enough to max out Dwarf Fortress + TYWA while still taking 2nd rank of Follow Up.

Really, though, the problem with going heavy into dwarf racial bonuses is not having enough APs for ftr PrEs, which are generally going to add more to survivability or DPS. Particularly if you're thinking of Reaper mode, in which case heal amp from human is probably more valuable.

Jasparion
02-21-2017, 05:05 PM
I've tested it before and you must have regular full plate equipped: half-plate doesn't count, mithral full plate doesn't count.

VG cores thru Vicious Shield I (+5% atk speed, +20% shield bash proc chance), Fatal Bulwark, and Follow Up are 16 APs; although if I'm adding right, 41 SD / 24 dwarf / 15 VG is enough to max out Dwarf Fortress + TYWA while still taking 2nd rank of Follow Up.

Really, though, the problem with going heavy into dwarf racial bonuses is not having enough APs for ftr PrEs, which are generally going to add more to survivability or DPS. Particularly if you're thinking of Reaper mode, in which case heal amp from human is probably more valuable.

Well, the goal is for Dwarf rather than Human, and given it will be stacking serious Con, the HP pool should cover the loss of 20 Healing Amp. Just need to ensure the healer types/scrollers in the group boost a little.

If Dwarf Fortress is picky about the type of plate, then I think just going for TYWA makes sense. 3 more AP which can be put in the Fighter enhancements, which as you point out, are very nice.

Cheers !

Thoden
02-21-2017, 08:33 PM
Well, the goal is for Dwarf rather than Human, and given it will be stacking serious Con, the HP pool should cover the loss of 20 Healing Amp. Just need to ensure the healer types/scrollers in the group boost a little.

If Dwarf Fortress is picky about the type of plate, then I think just going for TYWA makes sense. 3 more AP which can be put in the Fighter enhancements, which as you point out, are very nice.

Cheers !

I can corroborate what Unbongwah says here about the half plate not working for dwarven fortress (not that he needs my assistance!). Really, though, when in the endgame are you having to settle for half-plate? I think the extra points in dwarf are worth it.

Jasparion
02-21-2017, 09:14 PM
I can corroborate what Unbongwah says here about the half plate not working for dwarven fortress (not that he needs my assistance!). Really, though, when in the endgame are you having to settle for half-plate? I think the extra points in dwarf are worth it.

Are all named Heavy armor Full Plate? Or are there some which are Hides or something else which wouldnt trigger Dwarven Fortress?

Is the 7% DPS boost worth whatever you are losing from Vanguard?

Cheers.

unbongwah
02-22-2017, 03:15 PM
Are all named Heavy armor Full Plate?
http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Heavy_armor

I believe everything with 35% ASF is full plate and works with Dwarf Fortress; that includes all dragonplate armors.

Is the 7% DPS boost worth whatever you are losing from Vanguard?
Good question! Lemme know if you figure that out, would you?

Jasparion
03-02-2017, 08:30 PM
Another thing which just occurred to me. By going Con rather than Str you are giving up a LOT of DC for stuns?

unbongwah
03-02-2017, 10:39 PM
By going Con rather than Str you are giving up a LOT of DC for stuns?
There are up to three stuns on this build: Stunning Blow, Stunning Shield, and (when you get to lvl 29) Dire Charge. The latter two are based on whatever's your highest stat, so they're fine; though note that to-hit with Stunning Shield is always based on STR and at higher difficulties that can make a difference. Stunning Blow DC is also always based on STR, so that's what suffers if you go CON-based w/TYWA. You can choose to drop the feat, but its cooldown is half as long as Stunning Shield (15 vs 30 seconds) and half the point of having multiple stuns on a Vanguard IMO is for the free +9 Melee Power from Follow Up; so it's good to have all three if you can keep DCs high enough.

Jasparion
03-03-2017, 09:08 PM
There are up to three stuns on this build: Stunning Blow, Stunning Shield, and (when you get to lvl 29) Dire Charge. The latter two are based on whatever's your highest stat, so they're fine; though note that to-hit with Stunning Shield is always based on STR and at higher difficulties that can make a difference. Stunning Blow DC is also always based on STR, so that's what suffers if you go CON-based w/TYWA. You can choose to drop the feat, but its cooldown is half as long as Stunning Shield (15 vs 30 seconds) and half the point of having multiple stuns on a Vanguard IMO is for the free +9 Melee Power from Follow Up; so it's good to have all three if you can keep DCs high enough.

Its really just starting 6 points higher and then the 7 level ups, so that is 6 or 7 DC difference for the Str based stuns and trips.

I guess the other thing is, just what +hit is needed for mid to high level Reaper? Im not sure the last time I ever missed on anything other than a 1...

KaladorUK
02-15-2018, 07:11 PM
I believe there are too many points spent on Legendary Dreadnought.

Broicious
10-10-2018, 11:43 AM
Ok, apologies for the totally stupid question but with the Kundarak Fortress (28-pt F2P build) why do you go for both shield and THF. Isn't it better to just focus on one?

Separately for a TWF build is there an end game benefit for being a pure fight compared to being a pure ranger?

Coffey
10-12-2018, 01:31 AM
Ok, apologies for the totally stupid question but with the Kundarak Fortress (28-pt F2P build) why do you go for both shield and THF. Isn't it better to just focus on one?

Two Handed Fighting line increases glancing blows processes for Bastard Swords and Dwarven Axes only the same as it does for all 2H weapons but does not grant attack power increase.
This only works in concert with 2HF and main hand weapon with or without equipped shield and shield masteries. Shield mastery feats will give full adds to your build though with the glancing blow damage.

Base damage with no feat Glancing Blow 20%
Two Handed Fighting +10%
Improved Two Handed Fighting +10%
Greater Two Handed Fighting +10%
Perfect Two Handed Fighting +10%

--------------------------> Total 60%

Use your favorite search engine and search ddo glancing blow for more information.


Separately for a TWF build is there an end game benefit for being a pure fight compared to being a pure ranger?

Someone who has played both classes could write a good comparative.

Edit: Some fixes and such :)

Broicious
10-12-2018, 12:48 PM
Two Handed Fighting line increases glancing blows processes for Bastard Swords and Dwarven Axes only the same as it does for all 2H weapons but does not grant attack power increase.
This only works in concert with 2HF and main hand weapon with or without equipped shield and shield masteries. Shield mastery feats will give full adds to your build though with the glancing blow damage.

Base damage with no feat Glancing Blow 20%
Two Handed Fighting +10%
Improved Two Handed Fighting +10%
Greater Two Handed Fighting +10%
Perfect Two Handed Fighting +10%

--------------------------> Total 60%

Use your favorite search engine and search ddo glancing blow for more information.



Someone who has played both classes could write a good comparative.

Edit: Some fixes and such :)


Thank you so much Coffey, I'm really keen to understand the mechanics sitting behind these decisions and your answer was so clear. I really appreciate it. So much to learn, loving it, and really appreciate such a good community willing to help and educate. Have a great weekend.

Coffey
10-12-2018, 07:13 PM
Youre welcome Broicious anytime :)

I enjoy helping people and i too appreciate the kind people taking the time to answer my questions.

I find this game an enjoyable puzzle to put together a little at a time.
It can be time consuming to search through the forums but you can find some real gems of information.

Best of luck to you!