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-Avalon-
02-18-2016, 01:53 AM
I think it would be great if there was a feat that allowed picking a skill and adding it to be permanently a class skill. It would all pale masters to pick heal to help with negative spell power, allow fey locks to pick perform for sonic, etc... But, disable device would be useless unless the player also managed to get trap finding ability as well (only found on specific classes).

Hiponic
02-18-2016, 02:32 AM
I think it would be great if there was a feat that allowed picking a skill and adding it to be permanently a class skill. It would all pale masters to pick heal to help with negative spell power, allow fey locks to pick perform for sonic, etc... But, disable device would be useless unless the player also managed to get trap finding ability as well (only found on specific classes).


hmm..

I.... I LIKE THIS!
I would definitely use up a feat on quite a few builds to be able to make.. Heal or Perform a class skill.

Awesome Idea. Dont see any issues with it ether.

+1

Vellrad
02-18-2016, 02:42 AM
I think it would be great if there was a feat that allowed picking a skill and adding it to be permanently a class skill. It would all pale masters to pick heal to help with negative spell power, allow fey locks to pick perform for sonic, etc... But, disable device would be useless unless the player also managed to get trap finding ability as well (only found on specific classes).

Or a scroll at market which grants it.

Daine
02-18-2016, 03:02 AM
How about this:

Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration - also grants Bluff as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration - also grants Diplomacy as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Divination - also grants Search as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment - also grants Perform as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Evocation - also grants Intimidate as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Illusion - also grants Hide as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy - also grants Heal as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Transmutation - also grants Haggle as a class skill

-Avalon-
02-18-2016, 03:53 AM
How about this:

Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration - also grants Bluff as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration - also grants Diplomacy as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Divination - also grants Search as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment - also grants Perform as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Evocation - also grants Intimidate as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Illusion - also grants Hide as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy - also grants Heal as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Transmutation - also grants Haggle as a class skill

I'd be OK with adding skills to SF, but, that would require 2 feats to accomplish. So, add the skills, yes, but add a basic feat as well, for those who don't plan on taking SF feats. I'd even say add a particularly iconic skill to heroic past life feats (the bought ones, not the free ones) to further entice people to buy them.

Wizard gives spell craft, Cleric gives heal, rogue gives open lock, bard gives perform, etc. But, still add the basic feat to buy a specific skill to be a class skill at all times. The only caveat is that Fred cannot undo this feat once skill points have been used into the skill, it has to be reincarnated off if you wish to change it at that point. But, that would be a minor programming issue probably.

unbongwah
02-18-2016, 08:57 AM
Rather than adding new feats, I think it would be easier to add it to the existing Skill Focus feats; so you gain +3 and unlock it as a class skill, though you still have to pay the cross-class skill cost. It would actually make the Skill Focus feats useful! Which means every pure build would take SF:UMD, of course... ;)

Vellrad
02-18-2016, 09:14 AM
Rather than adding new feats, I think it would be easier to add it to the existing Skill Focus feats; so you gain +3 and unlock it as a class skill, though you still have to pay the cross-class skill cost. It would actually make the Skill Focus feats useful! Which means every pure build would take SF:UMD, of course... ;)

I don't think so.
Heroic TR builds? Sure.
ER builds? Maybe.
But if you are staying at cap, you will have enough UMD without it with minimal gear investment. I mean, I don't have a +UMD or +cha item, and dump cha and I fail scrols because of ASF not UMD ;).

Shoemaker
02-18-2016, 10:34 AM
I wouldn't want to see something like this as a new feat. Maybe add something to an existing feat would be okay. What's the lore behind it though? Why associate those skills with the feats chosen? What does someone who already has those skills as class skills get? Honestly, I would be much more inclined to support it as a high tier or core enhancement than as a feat.

RD2play
02-18-2016, 11:22 AM
You should add this to the skill focus feats, they are useless as is right now. this would make them decent choices for some builds.

ssgcmwatson
02-18-2016, 11:30 AM
How about this:

Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration - also grants Bluff as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration - also grants Diplomacy as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Divination - also grants Search as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment - also grants Perform as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Evocation - also grants Intimidate as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Illusion - also grants Hide as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy - also grants Heal as a class skill
Greater Spell Focus: Transmutation - also grants Haggle as a class skill

I think Transmutation might be better with Repair, but other than that this is a great idea.

Selvera
02-18-2016, 11:36 AM
Current skill focus feats are not useless, they're essentially +3 spell-power for casters, which is pretty weak for a feat, or they're there for non-completionists to reach UMD/Search/DD goals that are pretty hard to reach without some serious investment into the right stat (int/cha) or tomes.

A feat that adds a skill to the class skill list would likely be good, since it's +11.5 spell power at level 20+ (since cross-classed you can get the skill up to 11.5) at the cost of a feat and the investment of the skill points. This is much more powerful then skill focus currently is (assuming you're over level 3), but also costs investment of skill points.

Shoemaker
02-18-2016, 12:13 PM
You should add this to the skill focus feats, they are useless as is right now. this would make them decent choices for some builds.

I was thinking about adding it to these as well, except that I don't like the idea that classes that already have the skills don't gain anything. It cuts into their advantage of them being class granted. If it was to go into skill focus, I'd rather see the entire skill focus set be redone to add 10% bonus at level 1 and 5% for every other level above that. This would be 1/10;3/15;5/20;...;17/50;...;27/75;29/80%

-Avalon-
02-18-2016, 03:09 PM
I wouldn't want to see something like this as a new feat. Maybe add something to an existing feat would be okay. What's the lore behind it though? Why associate those skills with the feats chosen? What does someone who already has those skills as class skills get? Honestly, I would be much more inclined to support it as a high tier or core enhancement than as a feat.

The lore?

Skill Focus: the character sought out a professional, and trained with them.
Spell Focus: as part of advanced magical training, learned the appropriate skill.
Past Life: character finds it easier to learn certain things due to having done it so much in a past life.

Ligraph
02-18-2016, 03:21 PM
I was thinking about adding it to these as well, except that I don't like the idea that classes that already have the skills don't gain anything. It cuts into their advantage of them being class granted. If it was to go into skill focus, I'd rather see the entire skill focus set be redone to add 10% bonus at level 1 and 5% for every other level above that. This would be 1/10;3/15;5/20;...;17/50;...;27/75;29/80%

% bonuses would be nice. Maybe give 1/2 the bonus for skills that weren't class before SF feats. An easy way to make class skills be superior to ones taken via SF is to make the SF skills still cost 1 Skill Point per 1/2 rank, just remove the cap, as was suggested by unbongwah.

Shoemaker
02-18-2016, 04:10 PM
The lore?

Skill Focus: the character sought out a professional, and trained with them.
Spell Focus: as part of advanced magical training, learned the appropriate skill.
Past Life: character finds it easier to learn certain things due to having done it so much in a past life.

I'm okay with skill focus being modified or completely redone under the condition that the change doesn't take away from the value of being a class because it grants class granted skills.

I'm really not okay with spell focus granting skill bonuses. Too much of a stretch and the only semi-logical ones in the proposed list are enchantment and necromancy. I don't see the lore/logic tie in for the rest.

As part of a past life, this isn't something I see elsewhere in this thread, although I may have overlooked it. Because of the way past life feats are supposed to be something that stacks up to 3 times, I wouldn't be okay with it granting the skills as a flat out 'now a permanent character skill'. I would be okay with +3/6/10% bonus. I'd probably be okay with it being granted as a 4th life bonus as well. Not both though.

Keep in mind, my opinions may be mine alone, and I am okay wit that. :)

PsychoBlonde
02-18-2016, 04:20 PM
I can't really support this. You can get 11 ranks in any skill except Open Lock without taking even 1 level in a different class. If you want to be able to get 23, you need to take a level in a different class.

Even with only 11 ranks, you can get a skill bonus to silly high levels just with gear.

Saekee
02-18-2016, 04:31 PM
I like the proposed changes to skill focus. Adds versatility to character design although will make humans even more ideal as a race choice (free feat and bonus skill point/level).

-Avalon-
02-18-2016, 08:50 PM
As part of a past life, this isn't something I see elsewhere in this thread, although I may have overlooked it. Because of the way past life feats are supposed to be something that stacks up to 3 times, I wouldn't be okay with it granting the skills as a flat out 'now a permanent character skill'. I would be okay with +3/6/10% bonus. I'd probably be okay with it being granted as a 4th life bonus as well. Not both though.

Actually, the idea for Past Life, was to add the skill to the non-free past life feat. No worries about stacking or whatever. But it would add more value to the bought past life feats.


I like the proposed changes to skill focus. Adds versatility to character design although will make humans even more ideal as a race choice (free feat and bonus skill point/level).

Honestly, it's very difficult to add anything generalized to the game without making humans look even better...