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View Full Version : DDOCast 417 - DDO Debates: Character Building w/ Steelstar



pjstechie
02-14-2016, 12:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA_ELZOL2ks

Steelstar joins DDOCast as our special guest moderator for DDO Debates: Character Building with Patrick, Chai & Antha! Cordovan also joins us for community and game news! Don't forget to leave your thoughts on the debate questions in the comments!

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DDO Debates w/ Steelstar - 2:24
-Redesign 1 Existing Feat - 3:35
-Pitch an artificer enhancement revamp - 18:57
-Pitch an artificer based destiny - 35:04
-Best class to play pure - 49:06
-Best class to splash into a multiclass build - 57:30
-Best twistable destiny ability - 1:04:53
Game News - 1:11:23
Community News - 1:36:16
Lightning Post - 1:46:53
Closing - 1:49:50

Update 30 Release Notes (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438926-Lamannia-Release-Notes-%28Last-Updated-2-11-16%29)
DDO Chronicle 177 (https://www.ddo.com/en/news/ddo-chronicle-issue-177)
DDO Chronicle 178 (https://www.ddo.com/en/news/ddo-chronicle-issue-178)
2016 Players Council List (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/471584-The-2016-DDO-Players-Council-Membership-List#post5776640)
Axel: “Fixing” Endgame (https://youtu.be/g0RVbwfsBjo)
Shady Rogues: ToEE #1 (https://youtu.be/qhR5Ob595zc)
DDO Players News: Interview with Mike Mearls & Chris Lindsey (https://youtu.be/JX4COBynmGg)
Voodu: Gnome Preview (https://youtu.be/uFAO0GNUFjU)
Jafsupo: Not Enough HPs can be Deadly (http://www.gamergeoff.com/not-having-enough-hit-points-can-be-deadly/)
Erdrique: Monster Manual 1 by the Numbers (https://erdrique.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/crunching-down-the-numbers-of-my-monster-manual-part-1/)
Order of Syncletica: Iron Ninja (https://orderofsyncletica.wordpress.com/2016/02/08/theatricality-and-deception-part-3-iron-ninja/)
Ludwig: DDOCast last episode 415 (http://www.gamergeoff.com/ddocast-last-episode-415/)
Full Moon Fury: Guide to Great Crossbows (https://fullmoonfury.wordpress.com/2016/02/01/tholgrins-guide-to-great-crossbows/)
Lorehound: Beginning of an Adventure (http://lorehound.com/news/nostalgia-time-dungeons-and-dragons-online/)
Honest Past Lives (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/471251-Honest-Past-Life-Feats)
MMO Games: Best Online Fantasy Game (http://www.mmogames.com/topmmos/best-online-fantasy-game/)
Massively Overpowered: First Look at Gnomes (http://massivelyop.com/2016/02/12/hanging-with-my-gnomies-a-first-look-at-ddos-newest-race/)


-- Watch live at http://www.twitch.tv/ddocast

pjstechie
02-14-2016, 12:50 AM
Special thanks again to Steelstar for joining us as our special guest moderator!

UurlockYgmeov
02-14-2016, 01:43 AM
doesn't Disable Device already act as Trap Power?

FranOhmsford
02-14-2016, 06:58 AM
Question 1:

I absolutely agree with Cordovan about adjusting the Skill Foci and Save Feats. As amply demonstrated by my multiple threads/posts with suggested changes to those feats but here I go again:

Change all Skill Foci except UMD to +5 {+3 simply isn't enough to make any other than UMD and possibly Skill Focus: Search/Disable worth taking}.

Acrobatic/Athletic - Merge into one feat - None of these skills are anything special.

Alertness/Negotiator/Nimble Fingers/Stealthy - Upgrade all of these to +3.

Self Sufficient - Keep the +2 Heal/Repair and Add +10 Heal/Repair Amp

Merge Combat Casting with Quicken - Combat Casting is actually the better name and make the Concentration Bonus go up as we level: +4 at Lvl 1, +7 at Lvl 6, +10 at Lvl 12, +13 at Lvl 18, +16 at Lvl 24, +19 at Lvl 30.

Upgrade Bull-Headed to +3 Will Saves, +6 Intimidate

Upgrade Discipline to +3 Will Saves, +6 Concentration

Merge Snake Blood and Resist Poison into 1 Feat, Upgrade the +1 Reflex to +3 and have it give the full +6 to saves vs Poison.

Great Fortitude/Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes - Have them get better as we level: +2 at Lvl 1, +3 at Lvl 6, +4 at Lvl 12, +5 at Lvl 18, +6 at Lvl 24, +7 at Lvl 30.

Luck of Heroes - Upgrade to +3 to all Saves.


I also agree with Patrick that Imp. Fort is a newbie trap and needs fixing!
Warforged are going to end up using a Fort item anyway {especially with the fort bypass having been added to the game} so yes the amount of fort this feat gives can drop to 50% and remove the Healing Penalty.
I also agree that a Repair Amp bonus could be added - Say 20%.


Power Attack is a must take Feat already but I do agree with Chai that it's nowhere near what it once was and feel that the Melee Power bonus he advocates is a good idea.
Added to that:
Combat Expertise: Add PRR
Precision: Upgrade to +10% to hit and 50% Fort Bypass.
Resilience: Add MRR and Max MRR for Cloth Wearers.


And I feel that the other guy {I didn't catch his name} didn't really make a good argument for what I feel is an absolute must!
Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Epic Spell Focus
All of these are way way too weak!
+2, +5, +10 total, {so +2, +3, +5 additive} would be my suggestion!
The Maxed out DC Builds would then be able to skip using an item or two and players without past lives would have more chance to make a maxed DC build while less specialized characters {Say CLERICS!} could actually get usable DCs!
Wizard Active Past Life - Arcane Initiate could remain as is. But I'd prefer if all the active past lives were either rolled into the Passive {IF we're playing that class} Or we got an extra feat slot usable for past life/completionist feats only.

Warbler
02-14-2016, 07:20 AM
Question 1:

I absolutely agree with Cordovan about adjusting the Skill Foci and Save Feats. As amply demonstrated by my multiple threads/posts with suggested changes to those feats but here I go again:

Change all Skill Foci except UMD to +5 {+3 simply isn't enough to make any other than UMD and possibly Skill Focus: Search/Disable worth taking}.

Acrobatic/Athletic - Merge into one feat - None of these skills are anything special.

Alertness/Negotiator/Nimble Fingers/Stealthy - Upgrade all of these to +3.

Self Sufficient - Keep the +2 Heal/Repair and Add +10 Heal/Repair Amp

Merge Combat Casting with Quicken - Combat Casting is actually the better name and make the Concentration Bonus go up as we level: +4 at Lvl 1, +7 at Lvl 6, +10 at Lvl 12, +13 at Lvl 18, +16 at Lvl 24, +19 at Lvl 30.

Upgrade Bull-Headed to +3 Will Saves, +6 Intimidate

Upgrade Discipline to +3 Will Saves, +6 Concentration

Merge Snake Blood and Resist Poison into 1 Feat, Upgrade the +1 Reflex to +3 and have it give the full +6 to saves vs Poison.

Great Fortitude/Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes - Have them get better as we level: +2 at Lvl 1, +3 at Lvl 6, +4 at Lvl 12, +5 at Lvl 18, +6 at Lvl 24, +7 at Lvl 30.

Luck of Heroes - Upgrade to +3 to all Saves.


I also agree with Patrick that Imp. Fort is a newbie trap and needs fixing!
Warforged are going to end up using a Fort item anyway {especially with the fort bypass having been added to the game} so yes the amount of fort this feat gives can drop to 50% and remove the Healing Penalty.
I also agree that a Repair Amp bonus could be added - Say 20%.


Power Attack is a must take Feat already but I do agree with Chai that it's nowhere near what it once was and feel that the Melee Power bonus he advocates is a good idea.
Added to that:
Combat Expertise: Add PRR
Precision: Upgrade to +10% to hit and 50% Fort Bypass.
Resilience: Add MRR and Max MRR for Cloth Wearers.


And I feel that the other guy {I didn't catch his name} didn't really make a good argument for what I feel is an absolute must!
Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Epic Spell Focus
All of these are way way too weak!
+2, +5, +10 total, {so +2, +3, +5 additive} would be my suggestion!
The Maxed out DC Builds would then be able to skip using an item or two and players without past lives would have more chance to make a maxed DC build while less specialized characters {Say CLERICS!} could actually get usable DCs!
Wizard Active Past Life - Arcane Initiate could remain as is. But I'd prefer if all the active past lives were either rolled into the Passive Or we got an extra feat slot usable for past life/completionist feats only.

How about tuning some feats for max value at level 30 and then scale in between automatically.

UurlockYgmeov
02-14-2016, 04:11 PM
skill feats need to scale - so +1 at level 1, and +1 at every level dividable by 5 (so 5,10,,15,20,25,30)

Cleanincubus
02-14-2016, 06:56 PM
Can't believe someone didn't say the Diehard Feat. The Feat has been absolutely useless for years now, since enemies continue to attack you once you're down.

I would change it so that it either worked like the Death Pact spell (brings you back to life with -2 CON until you rest), or a combo of the Human/PDK Don't Count Me Out Enhancement and the Shadar-kai's Ghostly Essence Enhancement (or simply a double Don't Count Me Out [+6/+15/+20] that also stacks with the Enhancement.) I believe it has to be more than just a Feat version of Don't Count Me Out, because you have to spend a Feat to use it instead of simply using AP.

UurlockYgmeov
02-14-2016, 07:00 PM
Can't believe someone didn't say the Diehard Feat. The Feat has been absolutely useless for years now, since enemies continue to attack you once you're down.

I would change it so that it either worked like the Death Pact spell (brings you back to life with -2 CON until you rest), or a combo of the Human/PDK Don't Count Me Out Enhancement and the Shadar-kai's Ghostly Essence Enhancement (or simply a double Don't Count Me Out [+6/+15/+20] that also stacks with the Enhancement.) I believe it has to be more than just a Feat version of Don't Count Me Out, because you have to spend a Feat to use it instead of simply using AP.

should also clear all hate / aggro on you - put into place a high diplo roll for 10 seconds.

Holymunchkin
02-14-2016, 07:35 PM
to give my take on the debate
we don't need feats....

we need content
we need adventure
we need difficult raid encounters

we also need across the board nerfs of character power
or increased diffculty at all levels

we do not have a challenging difficulty for vets in heroics
and so doing heroic trs is not interesting

-------
the discussion about power attack:

it is useless compared to precision for LE

self-healing is still mandatory in LE

--------

whether or not we see artificers as melee is greatly dependent on their critical mult/threat bonuses and attack speed
twf has been given large benefits via tempest etc

Grandern_Marn
02-14-2016, 09:32 PM
Great to have a dev run the debate again, it's good to hear them involved in game related discussion with players. By the nature of the beast, when devs are on one of the podcasts they'll have a number of discussion points which they usually go through. Oppositely podcasters have their own questions and at times are trying to (kindly) pry information from the devs when they are on the show. This is a pretty standard information relay process but there's lots of other methods out there.

By involving a dev in the debate format a variety of subjects can be discussed with an innovative way. I don't know if the devs are coming forward with the debate questions, (I presume they are) but if they are then we can indirectly hear what is on their minds without having to fire questions at them and discuss the points in a useful way for the devs.

Sounds like being a debate MC needs a little getting used to but good on Steelstar for diving in.

I found the discussion on useful twists as really interesting. With only 3 choices from the panelists I was wondering what other useful twists are out there. There may be some that are kind of niche but learning more about what is useful when is always good information. Maybe something on useful twists or taking a closer look at useful features in the epic destinies might be an idea for a future show or shows.

I also do like the shows good items for different slots, here too casting a light on different items or features in the game is really handy.

BTW I have been seeing the Invisible Stalker pets around but haven't got one yet. I will do what I can to stalk Cordovan in the coming weeks.

pjstechie
02-14-2016, 09:51 PM
Regarding the question of redesigning a feat: frankly there are a LOT of fears that could use a pass. I like a lot of the suggestions here. Chai in particular made a bold choice picking a feat that is commonly taken and I thought he did a great job with it.

This is a great example of these debates intending to bring up the conversation which is why I love seeing othe players chime in in the comments. We could have gone on a long while with many feats but that wouldn't necessarily be the best approach and still doesn't get players not on the podcast involved as much. The thing I most enjoy about the debates is seeing players chime in when we start a discussion!

Regarding the questions: I actually came up with the questions (well some are from players and if they aren't are usually derived from other discussions and comments from players). Both with Steelstar and Vargouille I gave them the questions ahead of time to allow them input. There was some intention to the questions however in that I picked questions (I have an ongoing list) to be relevant to areas the devs tend to work on. Steelstar is often involved in feats and has a documented passion for artificers and I think that reflects clearly in the questions. I like to think that Vargouille and Steelstar didn't feel a need to tweak my proposed questions much because I chose wisely ;)

UurlockYgmeov
02-14-2016, 09:56 PM
suggested topics:

Guild Managment System (GMS) (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/460502%7C)
More Bank Space: Leomund's Secret Chest (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/468129%7C)
Demi-God Reincarnation: So what happens to uber completionist toons? (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448248%7C)
Bravery Dungeon Difficulty Icons (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469654%7C)
Portable and Collapsible Magical Bookcase (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470207%7C)
QoL: Update Shared Crafting Storage Service and Interface and General UI (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470697%7C)
QoL: Update Auction House Service and Interface (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470696%7C)
QoL: Update Mail Service and Interface (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470698%7C)
QoL: Update LFM Panel - Suggestions and Solicitations for Comments (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470922%7C)

pjstechie
02-14-2016, 09:57 PM
Moderating is pretty tricky in that you are listening and judging (impartially) while simultaneously trying to encourage a good debate and keep an eye on time! Vargouille and Steelstar both did great! I also agree that it's a great way for them to get involved with the show and this is something I hope to continue.

I like the idea about a show about twisting...that is definitely another one where 3 choices was limiting.

pjstechie
02-14-2016, 10:01 PM
suggested topics:

Guild Managment System (GMS) (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/460502%7C)
More Bank Space: Leomund's Secret Chest (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/468129%7C)
Demi-God Reincarnation: So what happens to uber completionist toons? (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448248%7C)
Bravery Dungeon Difficulty Icons (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469654%7C)
Portable and Collapsible Magical Bookcase (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470207%7C)
QoL: Update Shared Crafting Storage Service and Interface and General UI (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470697%7C)
QoL: Update Auction House Service and Interface (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470696%7C)
QoL: Update Mail Service and Interface (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470698%7C)
QoL: Update LFM Panel - Suggestions and Solicitations for Comments (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470922%7C)

I always like topic suggestions thanks!

UurlockYgmeov
02-14-2016, 10:51 PM
I always like topic suggestions thanks!

you are most certainly welcome!

I'd suggest The tale of the three forks : the Cannith Crafting Update pass, but that thread is LONG.... some person with way too much time on their hands!

and the topics above - well, i usually just refer to them as 'windmills Uurlock titls at' :P

also - twisting - need a little more direction to focus.

Example: Uurlock uses Blood and Radiance, Empyrean Magic, Radiance Power, and Endless Faith. (GOO Warlock with Udderdark blast (so acid / radiance / force). Endless faith is a great all purpose spellcasting twist.

Ligraph
02-14-2016, 11:25 PM
-Redesign 1 Existing Feat - 3:35

Going to go ambitions here:
Feat(s): Arcane/Divine/Wilderness Lore

Make spell caster level scale off of how many of these feats you have acquired.
Add enhancements and feats that give you extra of these feats. EX: EK t5: you gain 1 Arcane Lore for every 2 non-Arcane levels you have (except epic).
Also add a half-Arcane class (maybe Artificer if they get melee), like a Paladin is half-Divine and an Ranger is half-Wild.



-Pitch an artificer enhancement revamp
See my thread here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/471488-Another-Arty-pass-idea-thread).

For 3rd tree: runic champion. Dual-wielding runearms, like a warlock blasts.



-Pitch an artificer based destiny
Something similar to a combo of Shiradi, Draconic, and LD. Gives some meleeing/ranging power, some spellcasting power, and some elemental damage on hit effects.

I would want to make sure that the destiny is not artificer-specific, that it's more of a spell/melee/range combo. Although there should be some runearm stuff in there. Probaably runearm proficiency as well (as suggested by Patrick).

Would definitely want to have some tactical engineering type stuff as well.

May put up a detailed post on this, we'll see.



-Best class to play pure

DC caster has a very hard time not being pure...

But I like pure ranger (AA cores DWS t5 or tempest t5/cores) more than anything else I think.



-Best class to splash into a multiclass build

Depending heavily on build, but probably none right now.

If I have to... probably Rogue if you don't have evasion.



-Best twistable destiny ability

Cocoon.

If not that, then probably Empyrean Magic if you're a caster. Probably sense weekness if not, haven't looked at it much. Blessed Blades is in there too.

Actually, Draconic Roar is also decent.

FranOhmsford
02-15-2016, 05:35 AM
Can't believe someone didn't say the Diehard Feat. The Feat has been absolutely useless for years now, since enemies continue to attack you once you're down.

I would change it so that it either worked like the Death Pact spell (brings you back to life with -2 CON until you rest), or a combo of the Human/PDK Don't Count Me Out Enhancement and the Shadar-kai's Ghostly Essence Enhancement (or simply a double Don't Count Me Out [+6/+15/+20] that also stacks with the Enhancement.) I believe it has to be more than just a Feat version of Don't Count Me Out, because you have to spend a Feat to use it instead of simply using AP.

For Diehard I'd just merge it with Toughness.

It's not worth a feat on it's own and Toughness is no longer the must have feat it once was AND merging the two wouldn't put Toughness back where it was either.
So...
It's a win-win!

Oh and it gives Rangers Toughness free too which would fit in with that the 1st Ed. Ranger was the character with the highest HP {2d8 at Lvl 1}.