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Fedora1
02-09-2016, 05:11 AM
I just wanted to post some frustrations I have with this class, and freely admit up front that I have been a stalwart melee player for about 6 years. My first try at a sorc was back several years ago before the enhancement pass (the old style enhancements) and when the content was a little harder, max level was 20. I gave up at L4 when I could not complete one of the solo harbor quests. Yep, I know.... :(
I had trouble targeting spells.

Anyway, a few weeks ago I decided to try again. I just hit L20 but it has been a bit underwhelming. I keep waiting for that "Sorcs are awesome" moment. So far, the only time I think sorcs are awesome is when I run content about 3-4 levels below my current level. At level 20, I still have a hard time in L18 High Road wilderness, L21 Kings Forest wilderness, etc. Doing at-level content on normal is tough. It seems that it takes an average of about 8 spells using all metamagics to kill a single mob.

Here's a few details of how I am set up and how I play.

Fire Savant all the way to Tier 5, Air Savant as secondary. All AP's spent in these two trees.
Grabbed all SLA's and turned on all metamagics for them.
Spell Power as follows:
Elec: 294 and crit +20%
Fire: 309 and crit +32%
Sonic: 283 and crit +20%

I spam all the SLA's and sonic blast, tossing in the bigger spells with empower/max as needed.

I have 317 HP and 2785 SP.

I have the WW staff (Alarphon) which isn't as good as I hoped it would be. I don't have access to any enhancements that increase the power of wands, and the spells it can cast are slow and weak. All it essentially does is add 90 to my fire/elec spell power which is easy enough to find on random loot.

I start quests by buffing up with the usual Shield, Blur, Protection from Energy, True Sight, Displacement, Stoneskin, Jump.

I typically run solo - only party I have joined has been to get through the Spinner of Shadows and Beyond the Rift quests. I died in both of them once. This was at L18 running them on elite, so it is what it is. I didn't kill much or help much in Spinner, but my spells were more effective against the mobs in Rift.

I tend to grab a hire, it varies on whether I grab a cleric, barbarian or favored soul.

So anyway, any advice or comments would be great. So far I am underwhelmed at the sorcs capabilities. Is it just that he runs better in a party? What am I doing wrong or what can I do better?

Thanks! Thanks! and Thanks! :)

EllisDee37
02-09-2016, 05:42 AM
Anyway, a few weeks ago I decided to try again. I just hit L20 but it has been a bit underwhelming. I keep waiting for that "Sorcs are awesome" moment.Out of curiosity, did your experience resemble mine (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/453381-Completionist-Project?p=5565536&viewfull=1#post5565536) through heroics? (Scroll down to below the build.)

Starla70
02-09-2016, 05:55 AM
I am trying my first shot at sorc as well. I Tr'd from a 3 life run at wizard. Much more sp, way less spells. So far, looking forward to being done with it all. level 15 atm.

Fedora1
02-09-2016, 06:15 AM
Out of curiosity, did your experience resemble mine (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/453381-Completionist-Project?p=5565536&viewfull=1#post5565536) through heroics? (Scroll down to below the build.)

No, not even close.

I left out a few key points, so let me add those now.

I actually started the sorc at L4 on an alternate server, and took him to L6 running Harbor/Market quests on elite which went okay. Not great, but no bad. This was a trial to see if I wanted to run a sorc on my main server. So over on my main server I grabbed a toon a hadn't used in ages, a L12 half elf rogue, and LR+20'd him into a L12 sorc. So half elf is not the greatest choice for a sorc, but I couldn't change his race with an LR. I did swap out his barb dilly for pally to get +2 saves.

Then I started running quests under level to catch up favor and gear (this was a 1st lifer), and I had no challenge gear as I have only run challenges a handful of times in 6 years.

So in general I have random-gen loot except for the staff and my robe (Thanatos Weave for death block and heavy fort slotted in blue).

Basically unless I run stuff way under level I get my behind handed to me.

lronEnema
02-09-2016, 06:38 AM
Firstly a disclaimer: lots of ways to build a sorc. Not a case of doing it wrong if you don’t go with the below suggestions.

A few observations from the above:

I am much more of a fan of air, as the primary, than fire (acid has its benefits too). Too many things are fire immune or heavily resistant. Air savants get FvS type ‘wings’ which helps keep you at arm’s length from mobs and adds hugely to survivability. If you are going pure (or at least 18 IIRC) you will get knockdown immunity – again, huge survivability plus. There is less lightning immunity amongst mobs (some demons being the exception) – for those you can take fire or cold as a secondary. I prefer cold for ice storm and the cold dot. The cannith items from the challenges are a worth investing in (bracers if you are air savant – they also give permanent blur)

317 hp at lvl 20 is very low, especially if you are less mobile, low PRR, soloing (so going to have all mob agro) and non-self healing. You really need to get this figure up. Personally I would always go bladeforged/war-forged so that I have direct control over my healing. Heal scrolls/Cocoon is just not sufficient in more difficult content. Even Halfling with dragon-mark would give you that emergency heal for the oh-**** moments.

Again, personal choice - I put heavy investment into PRR/MRR. Adamantine body + fanion (later skyvault shield) gives a massive boost to physical damage absorption. You will need a sapphire of spell agility + war/bladeforged cores + the T2 core from eldritch knight to get to 0% arcane spell failure, but it is well worth it. Currently my 30th lvl sorc has 3 paladin levels (so gives up 9th lvl spells) and has around 197 PRR and 98 MRR with divine power buff, which means around 66% damage mitigation from mob physical attacks. He also gets +20% hp from the Paladin levels and sits at around 1200.

DC’s are cr@p so had to go shiradi – not everyone’s cup to tea (pun intended) but fun enough and can contribute better than if I were a soul stone. More fun to solo than in a group to be honest.

Hope it helps

Vanhooger
02-09-2016, 06:39 AM
Sorc is one of the most powerful classes on heroic, but you need to know quest, monster weakness, spell and management of mana. Once you have that you can destroy any heroic content. In epics is more complicated to be a good sorc since most spell do not scale to epic power, but again with experience you can be good (but not the best) even in epics.

Now some question:

- Are you evocation spec?
- Spell list?
- Do you try to beatdown every single mob?
- Can you post you're AP choice?
- Equip?
- Feat choices?

It is hard to say what you're doing wrong without some info.

lronEnema
02-09-2016, 06:50 AM
No, not even close.

I left out a few key points, so let me add those now.

I actually started the sorc at L4 on an alternate server, and took him to L6 running Harbor/Market quests on elite which went okay. Not great, but no bad. This was a trial to see if I wanted to run a sorc on my main server. So over on my main server I grabbed a toon a hadn't used in ages, a L12 half elf rogue, and LR+20'd him into a L12 sorc. So half elf is not the greatest choice for a sorc, but I couldn't change his race with an LR. I did swap out his barb dilly for pally to get +2 saves.

Then I started running quests under level to catch up favor and gear (this was a 1st lifer), and I had no challenge gear as I have only run challenges a handful of times in 6 years.

So in general I have random-gen loot except for the staff and my robe (Thanatos Weave for death block and heavy fort slotted in blue).

Basically unless I run stuff way under level I get my behind handed to me.

Hmm - just read this. First life, no epic destinies, no real gear, fleshie - going to be very tough on a sorc.

Fedora1
02-09-2016, 07:18 AM
Hmm - just read this. First life, no epic destinies, no real gear, fleshie - going to be very tough on a sorc.

Well I did just grab Draconic ED, but as I am still L20 and 1st life fleshie (helf no less) yeah not much added power.

Fedora1
02-09-2016, 07:27 AM
Sorc is one of the most powerful classes on heroic, but you need to know quest, monster weakness, spell and management of mana. Once you have that you can destroy any heroic content. In epics is more complicated to be a good sorc since most spell do not scale to epic power, but again with experience you can be good (but not the best) even in epics.

Now some question:

- Are you evocation spec?
- Spell list?
- Do you try to beatdown every single mob?
- Can you post you're AP choice?
- Equip?
- Feat choices?

It is hard to say what you're doing wrong without some info.


Spell list is kinda in first post with regard to buffs and SLA's. Others are basically fire/elec damaging spells, a couple sonic and force for backup, DD, and banish. No real CC spells since I didnt want to focus on spell pen and Dc's.
AP's as mentioned are all in Fire Savant up to T5 and Air up to T4, pretty much all the SLA's, all the +% to crit, some CHA, and most of the meta cost reduction.
I think I mentioned equip of note already, the other stuff is random loot for Spell Points and Spell Power and Hit Points mostly.
Feats - I did take all metas except Eschew and Extend. Spell Focus evocation, magical training.

Oh and I do try to beatdown every mob, grouping them together if possible for nuking.

cru121
02-09-2016, 07:42 AM
As for your early epic career, you have two options basically: stay draconic, rush to energy burst, enjoy significant increase in DPS, or rush to rejuv.cocoon. personally I'd go for cocoon. Join groups for dailies, haste everyone and pass jump/blur. Consider swapping to T5 air for wings, to keep up with fast runners. Pick up high level cores for immunities. For large groups use maximized dbf and chain lightning. When saving SP, tickle mobs with eloop and sonic blast. Greater Shout and sunburst for CC. Work on your HP and prr.

Fedora1
02-09-2016, 07:52 AM
So what is considered "good" spell power? And do you pretty much leave max/empower on all the time? Does extend help with damaging spells by making it harder to save?

It seems like a lot of mobs have evasion and save for no damage a lot.

And is there a better choice for 1st life, 1st time arcanes? Warlock or Wiz?

I have played arti's, but usually as a repeater/buffer build or a SWF build. Not the same as as a full time arcane IMO.

Enguebert
02-09-2016, 08:03 AM
Currently playing a level 17 fire sorc and i understand some of your problems

Sorcerer is great if opponent goes down quickly but has not enough AC/PRR to stand in melee with mobs.

So to survive, the key is to kill monsters before they can melee you. And as a fire sorcerer, two spells are very important

1) Scorching Ray. Level 2 spell with a very long range. Very low cooldown. Does decent damage and, as fire sorcerer, you can have 4 rays.
I usually start fight with this spell and cast it again before monster is in range of fireball SLA
2) Firewall. This spell cover an area and last long, while doing nice damage (at least in heroic). Cast it either on archer on ledge or on yourself ! Do not cast it on melee far from you (melee will move)
Having the firewall on you may save your life if you are tripped/holded/..., it can kill the melees beating on you

And of course have backup spells for monsters immune to your main element
And you must know that some quests will be a pain even with backup plan because your main element is not effective, but some will be very easy

PS : charm spells can be very useful during large fights because the charmed will take some aggro and every monster that is not after you is not very dangerous :-)
Same for hire or summons, even if they don't last long :-)


Edit : if you have problem with monsters that have evasion, try to have some spells where evasion doesn't work : scorching ray or magic missile

Theolin
02-09-2016, 08:12 AM
So what is considered "good" spell power? And do you pretty much leave max/empower on all the time? Does extend help with damaging spells by making it harder to save?

It seems like a lot of mobs have evasion and save for no damage a lot.

And is there a better choice for 1st life, 1st time arcanes? Warlock or Wiz?

I have played arti's, but usually as a repeater/buffer build or a SWF build. Not the same as as a full time arcane IMO.


Great spell power is around 1000
decent is 700-800
Good is 500-700

Vanhooger
02-09-2016, 08:22 AM
Great spell power is around 1000
decent is 700-800
Good is 500-700

this include metamagics?

RD2play
02-09-2016, 08:24 AM
Great spell power is around 1000
decent is 700-800
Good is 500-700

pretty much the same holds for HP

FranOhmsford
02-09-2016, 08:48 AM
Great spell power is around 1000
decent is 700-800
Good is 500-700


this include metamagics?

I hope it incl. metas because I can't see how 1000 is possible if not?

What are those numbers on your character sheet pls?

Eth
02-09-2016, 08:51 AM
Great spell power is around 1000
decent is 700-800
Good is 500-700

For a level 30 sorc, yes, but not at level 20.

Vanhooger
02-09-2016, 08:57 AM
Spell list is kinda in first post with regard to buffs and SLA's. Others are basically fire/elec damaging spells, a couple sonic and force for backup, DD, and banish. No real CC spells since I didnt want to focus on spell pen and Dc's.
AP's as mentioned are all in Fire Savant up to T5 and Air up to T4, pretty much all the SLA's, all the +% to crit, some CHA, and most of the meta cost reduction.
I think I mentioned equip of note already, the other stuff is random loot for Spell Points and Spell Power and Hit Points mostly.
Feats - I did take all metas except Eschew and Extend. Spell Focus evocation, magical training.

Oh and I do try to beatdown every mob, grouping them together if possible for nuking.

As a sorc you have to focus on DC at least one, evocation or most mob will half you're damage or completely evade it.

Ignoring CC is not really good, CC would work as you're defense.

If you want to ignore DC you can but you'll be kinda useless till shiradi pops in epic destiny.

Scorching ray is the best low level spell that can be super handy even against bosses. It's a low sp spell with low cooldown and add up stack of immolation (fire savant core) pretty fast for free fire dot damage.

With high spell power this is awesome against bosses. Usually you don't have time to stack it on trash.

Wall of fire is as well a very good spell for low level, you can cast it and kite mob in and out, this will save you lot of sp.

Otto dance is super useful too. All you're enemy dancing instead of attacking you.

hold a monster, make them helpless so they take more damage...

Dot's spell help against bosses

And so on...that's why I asked for a list of spell....


As well feats, saying you got all metamagics doesn't help much.

A more detailed overview of you're equip so I can tell you what you could change....

Beating down every mob is not a good idea at least on epic, skip what you can, blue bar doesn't last forever.

If you want to kill everything just go warlock, and leave a stone on top of mouse 1.

Fedora1
02-09-2016, 10:17 AM
Okay thanks for all replies.

I have firewall and scorching ray (its one of the SLA's). I do have the disco ball - forgot about that one but do use it when there are more than 3 mobs or so.

At level 20 I did indeed list all my feats:

Empower
Enlarge
Heighten
Maximize
Quicken
Spell Focus Evocation
Mental Toughness
Magical Training (auto), Half Elf Dilly (auto) - Paladin

Also listed all my spells (except Otto's noted above) and AP's spent - not going to type them all out singly as I'm looking for general advice (and I appreciate the advice so far).

I use the Eladar Electric Surge DOT for bosses, try to stack it a couple times while kiting and blasting fireballs, scorch, sonic blast, etc.

I guess my main issues are that even at-level mobs (normal or hard, elite nearly impossible) take several rounds of the following (and in this order, starting out at range):

Electric loop (to try for stun), sonic blast (again for stun), fireball, then as they close the distance I hit with scorch, shocking grasp, burning hands, then back to the beginning with electric loop, sonic blast etc. It usually takes up to 4 rounds of this barrage to kill something which just seems odd. Mainly because of immunities, saves, evasion, etc.

If I manage to stun them with e-loop or sonic blast I pause for a moment to cool down and hit them again with the same to maintain stuns. If I think several will swarm on my first volley I will launch the disco ball first, and/or firewall. I try to single out bosses or champs and not agro them with the trash mobs. DOT them first, then max/empowered nuking.

Something just doesn't seem right. All my SLAs (burning hands, shocking grasp, scorch, electric loop, and fireball are max/empowered/quickened, enlarged etc. My other spells are all set to max/empowered.

My spell power listed in first post is what it says in character sheet, I assume its higher with the meta magics.

jalont
02-09-2016, 10:21 AM
I just wanted to post some frustrations I have with this class, and freely admit up front that I have been a stalwart melee player for about 6 years. My first try at a sorc was back several years ago before the enhancement pass (the old style enhancements) and when the content was a little harder, max level was 20. I gave up at L4 when I could not complete one of the solo harbor quests. Yep, I know.... :(
I had trouble targeting spells.

Anyway, a few weeks ago I decided to try again. I just hit L20 but it has been a bit underwhelming. I keep waiting for that "Sorcs are awesome" moment. So far, the only time I think sorcs are awesome is when I run content about 3-4 levels below my current level. At level 20, I still have a hard time in L18 High Road wilderness, L21 Kings Forest wilderness, etc. Doing at-level content on normal is tough. It seems that it takes an average of about 8 spells using all metamagics to kill a single mob.

Here's a few details of how I am set up and how I play.

Fire Savant all the way to Tier 5, Air Savant as secondary. All AP's spent in these two trees.
Grabbed all SLA's and turned on all metamagics for them.
Spell Power as follows:
Elec: 294 and crit +20%
Fire: 309 and crit +32%
Sonic: 283 and crit +20%

I spam all the SLA's and sonic blast, tossing in the bigger spells with empower/max as needed.

I have 317 HP and 2785 SP.

I have the WW staff (Alarphon) which isn't as good as I hoped it would be. I don't have access to any enhancements that increase the power of wands, and the spells it can cast are slow and weak. All it essentially does is add 90 to my fire/elec spell power which is easy enough to find on random loot.

I start quests by buffing up with the usual Shield, Blur, Protection from Energy, True Sight, Displacement, Stoneskin, Jump.

I typically run solo - only party I have joined has been to get through the Spinner of Shadows and Beyond the Rift quests. I died in both of them once. This was at L18 running them on elite, so it is what it is. I didn't kill much or help much in Spinner, but my spells were more effective against the mobs in Rift.

I tend to grab a hire, it varies on whether I grab a cleric, barbarian or favored soul.

So anyway, any advice or comments would be great. So far I am underwhelmed at the sorcs capabilities. Is it just that he runs better in a party? What am I doing wrong or what can I do better?

Thanks! Thanks! and Thanks! :)

There's nothing you're doing wrong. Your experience is exactly what I would expect. You won't be soloing on EEs on your first life (?) sorc build. Stick to en/eh. Sorcs can be okay, but it takes a lot of farming to make them passable, and they're never "good" compared to other, overpowered classes.

Still, they tear up heroic content quite well!

Fedora1
02-09-2016, 10:38 AM
There's nothing you're doing wrong. Your experience is exactly what I would expect. You won't be soloing on EEs on your first life (?) sorc build. Stick to en/eh. Sorcs can be okay, but it takes a lot of farming to make them passable, and they're never "good" compared to other, overpowered classes.

Still, they tear up heroic content quite well!

Thanks, but I didn't exactly tear up heroic content either. :( lol

Thinking about Tr'ing into a Morninglord Sun Elf cleric and going divine disciple on fire/light spells.

JOTMON
02-09-2016, 11:19 AM
I just wanted to post some frustrations I have with this class, and freely admit up front that I have been a stalwart melee player for about 6 years. My first try at a sorc was back several years ago before the enhancement pass (the old style enhancements) and when the content was a little harder, max level was 20. I gave up at L4 when I could not complete one of the solo harbor quests. Yep, I know.... :(
I had trouble targeting spells.

Anyway, a few weeks ago I decided to try again. I just hit L20 but it has been a bit underwhelming. I keep waiting for that "Sorcs are awesome" moment. So far, the only time I think sorcs are awesome is when I run content about 3-4 levels below my current level. At level 20, I still have a hard time in L18 High Road wilderness, L21 Kings Forest wilderness, etc. Doing at-level content on normal is tough. It seems that it takes an average of about 8 spells using all metamagics to kill a single mob.

Here's a few details of how I am set up and how I play.

Fire Savant all the way to Tier 5, Air Savant as secondary. All AP's spent in these two trees.
Grabbed all SLA's and turned on all metamagics for them.
Spell Power as follows:
Elec: 294 and crit +20%
Fire: 309 and crit +32%
Sonic: 283 and crit +20%

I spam all the SLA's and sonic blast, tossing in the bigger spells with empower/max as needed.

I have 317 HP and 2785 SP.

I have the WW staff (Alarphon) which isn't as good as I hoped it would be. I don't have access to any enhancements that increase the power of wands, and the spells it can cast are slow and weak. All it essentially does is add 90 to my fire/elec spell power which is easy enough to find on random loot.

I start quests by buffing up with the usual Shield, Blur, Protection from Energy, True Sight, Displacement, Stoneskin, Jump.

I typically run solo - only party I have joined has been to get through the Spinner of Shadows and Beyond the Rift quests. I died in both of them once. This was at L18 running them on elite, so it is what it is. I didn't kill much or help much in Spinner, but my spells were more effective against the mobs in Rift.

I tend to grab a hire, it varies on whether I grab a cleric, barbarian or favored soul.

So anyway, any advice or comments would be great. So far I am underwhelmed at the sorcs capabilities. Is it just that he runs better in a party? What am I doing wrong or what can I do better?

Thanks! Thanks! and Thanks! :)

The real power comes with Epic destiny levels and Epic gear, but with all the powerful random stuff available now.. there are opportunities..
I tended to cast more insta-kills in heroics and then transition to hold/burst damage.

are you casting hold spells first?
Helpless monsters take an extra 50% damage when held.

I would suggest ensuring you have current Stat gear for Cha and Con., hunt down tomes..
and learn to love heroic Shroud.. HP and SP items go a long way

Hunt down the best Spell power sticks for your Primary/secondary spell power (fire/Air in your case)
Spell power augments, etc..Try and Keep the spell power at highest power you can find as you level.

Keep the DC's up, max your Charisma wherever possible.. you don't want mobs saving.

Fedora1
02-09-2016, 11:35 AM
are you casting hold spells first?
Helpless monsters take an extra 50% damage when held.

Good point, I will make sure and grab Mass Hold Monster and use it first.

Morroiel
02-09-2016, 01:02 PM
Check out Wizza/farwil's post on this subforum.

Also be sure to look at his youtube channel and watch one or two of his videos showing what the play-style is. This should help you get an idea of how to play a sorc! However, you will only get better with time and experience - playing a sorcerer is both hard and rewarding!

Have fun!

PS If you want an easier to play / understand caster check out warlock.

Livmo
02-09-2016, 02:13 PM
Thanks, but I didn't exactly tear up heroic content either. :( lol

Thinking about Tr'ing into a Morninglord Sun Elf cleric and going divine disciple on fire/light spells.

Playing sorcs and wizzys is a bit of different play style(s) and not just build and gear.

If you want to have bunch of fun, IR into a Sun Elf Fiend Warlock. You may enjoy the play style more than sorc or wizzy.

Fedora1
02-09-2016, 02:28 PM
Playing sorcs and wizzys is a bit of different play style(s) and not just build and gear.

If you want to have bunch of fun, IR into a Sun Elf Fiend Warlock. You may enjoy the play style more than sorc or wizzy.

I will look into that. :)

jalont
02-09-2016, 04:07 PM
Thanks, but I didn't exactly tear up heroic content either. :( lol

Thinking about Tr'ing into a Morninglord Sun Elf cleric and going divine disciple on fire/light spells.

For most of heroics, playing your build well= grouping as many mobs up as you possibly can and then casting a fireball at the ground in front of you. Follow it up with a second to kill the ones left over. Everything will be dead. Sorcs in heroic do better with a zerging play style like this. I know people say to use firewall and such, but I never ever do on a sorc. I literally only use fireball or an electric loop to stun them, then a fireball.

Hobgoblin
02-09-2016, 04:40 PM
For most of heroics, playing your build well= grouping as many mobs up as you possibly can and then casting a fireball at the ground in front of you. Follow it up with a second to kill the ones left over. Everything will be dead. Sorcs in heroic do better with a zerging play style like this. I know people say to use firewall and such, but I never ever do on a sorc. I literally only use fireball or an electric loop to stun them, then a fireball.

Just to touch on this- this works on all but the newest quests. They have a lot more hp and sr, so I use greater shout, them chain lightning.


And jotmon? Do you really expect a first life sorc to have almost 650 hp?

Yes I know you can with gear and pls, but really?

Breaking it down:
Con 18-
+8 item
2 rage
+2 insight
+2 guild

32 con so +11 mod
So 80 base sorc
20 feats
10 gh favor
220 con mod
40 pgis
40 false life
tensors +4 con = 40 more hp
450 no sweat

+2 con time 20 more

470

Where is the extra 175 coming from?

Keep in mind that this first life and btc is kinda hard to find while leveling

Just breaking down the hp further for my entertainment - still first life, still level 20.

+5 tome, as that is all that will apply
35 con now - 20 more hp
gs item (just for arguments sake) - 45 more hp
primal scream+3 more con over rage - 40 more hp
bard song- +2 con - 20 more hp
epic destiny - +6 con +60 hp
us core - +200 hp
that makes 675

us hp buff - +135 hp

total hp at level 20 with no epl or pls = 810

not bad!

now just to go all out completely - level 30 with past lives


con

18 base
+15 item
+5 rage
+7 insight
+2 guild
+4 tensors
+6 ed
+6 twist
+7 tome
+2 bard
+2 yugo pot
+2 completionist
+6 bloodrage
+2 profane
=82=+36 mod

so 80 base sorc
20 feat
10 gh favor
10800 con mod
100 epic levels
32 toughness feat
50 epic toughness feat
barb past lives - 30 hp
+20 yugo pot
+45 epl
+40 vitality (pgis)
+200 hp from us core
+50 false life
= 1757 before stance
+20% hp from stance

=2108

not bad.
fun times!

Whitering
02-09-2016, 05:12 PM
I can sympathize with how this went for you. I played Bladesworn, I used a +1 to erase the Paly, and went for it, but at 18ish, with decent gear, I decided to redo it, burned an LR+20, and did 6 Paly and 14 Sorc, probably not ideal, but the Sorc is just for buffing lol

Heavy Armor, basically perma displacement (so many SP, and extended, it lasts a long time), Tensers and whatnot, I took the Level 5 paly enhancements though for more killing power, but all in all and I mowed down heroics. It was basically a test to see how my Sorc life on my main toon would go. I think I will burn through two via the above leveling method quickly, and then try a caster on the third sorc life.

Go Ice and something, I did pre plan, mostly for a druid, but all the caster staves I've gathered over the past couple of weeks (which are so much better than the old loot, thanks Turbine), have had festival glaciation stacked on them to the appropriate level. I focused mostly on Fire boosting weapons, but kept a few with %crit on ice spells.

Fedora1
02-10-2016, 01:42 PM
Playing sorcs and wizzys is a bit of different play style(s) and not just build and gear.

If you want to have bunch of fun, IR into a Sun Elf Fiend Warlock. You may enjoy the play style more than sorc or wizzy.


I will look into that. :)

Well I just tried out warlock and yes its pretty sweet, but plays like a pew-pew more than a caster.

I didn't want to start at L1, so didn't do a TR but rather took another alt I had parked for a few years - a L15 drow pally, and used the +20 heart.

I decided against the iconic just because of the must-grind-to-30 on a class I wasn't sure I'd like.

It was not my ideal build for a warlock, since being lawful good I had to choose Fey pact, but still enjoyed the first couple quests I ran.

Thanks again to everyone for the replies and sorc advice, I'm thinking I will TR him rather than continue on into epics. I already have my two mains in epics with all the destinies and a few PL's each, so for now gonna play around on these alts with classes I've shied away from all these years.

Fedora1
02-10-2016, 01:47 PM
For most of heroics, playing your build well= grouping as many mobs up as you possibly can and then casting a fireball at the ground in front of you. Follow it up with a second to kill the ones left over. Everything will be dead. Sorcs in heroic do better with a zerging play style like this. I know people say to use firewall and such, but I never ever do on a sorc. I literally only use fireball or an electric loop to stun them, then a fireball.


Just to touch on this- this works on all but the newest quests. They have a lot more hp and sr, so I use greater shout, them chain lightning.

This is really the heart of my post - I am doing this and it doesn't seem to work.

I already listed my spell power and metas, and I literally end up (on at-level content) cycling through 4-5 SLA's and a couple other spells (force missiles, lightning bolt, sonic blast) before it takes the mobs down. I always thought (assumed) that you could clear a room in a couple shots (say electric loop followed by fireball) but all I see is save, save, save and the red bars going down a centimeter at a time. As a melee (pally/barb) I could clear the room in a couple cleaves without worrying about a spell point pool.

Livmo
02-10-2016, 04:03 PM
This is really the heart of my post - I am doing this and it doesn't seem to work.

I already listed my spell power and metas, and I literally end up (on at-level content) cycling through 4-5 SLA's and a couple other spells (force missiles, lightning bolt, sonic blast) before it takes the mobs down. I always thought (assumed) that you could clear a room in a couple shots (say electric loop followed by fireball) but all I see is save, save, save and the red bars going down a centimeter at a time. As a melee (pally/barb) I could clear the room in a couple cleaves without worrying about a spell point pool.

Don't forget to invest in Perform skill on the Fey, http://ddowiki.com/page/Starting_a_Warlock

Also, I really enjoyed the Disco Balls and the Misty Escape. I went PDK/Fey Warlock when I tried Fey.

Yep it's a grind to L30 to IR.

Wizza
02-11-2016, 11:26 AM
This is really the heart of my post - I am doing this and it doesn't seem to work.

I already listed my spell power and metas, and I literally end up (on at-level content) cycling through 4-5 SLA's and a couple other spells (force missiles, lightning bolt, sonic blast) before it takes the mobs down. I always thought (assumed) that you could clear a room in a couple shots (say electric loop followed by fireball) but all I see is save, save, save and the red bars going down a centimeter at a time. As a melee (pally/barb) I could clear the room in a couple cleaves without worrying about a spell point pool.

I think you are simply using the wrong spells.

As a Fire savant, you have little reason to use anything that is not fire in Heroic. Gather mobs up, put Wall of Fire up, Fireball SLA, DBF, then finish with the rest of your SLAs/Fire spells or wait WoF to do his job. If they save, try to get your Evocation DC a bit higher, with either more Cha or more items.

Fedora1
02-11-2016, 02:00 PM
I think you are simply using the wrong spells.

As a Fire savant, you have little reason to use anything that is not fire in Heroic. Gather mobs up, put Wall of Fire up, Fireball SLA, DBF, then finish with the rest of your SLAs/Fire spells or wait WoF to do his job. If they save, try to get your Evocation DC a bit higher, with either more Cha or more items.

I have air savant as secondary, with about the same spell power and crits as fire. All my AP are in these two trees. It's very likely I just need higher CHA and evoc DC.

MeliCat
02-11-2016, 02:51 PM
I never liked sorcs much. I play them as PL for the DC and I use an easy button WF/BF with my reconstruct. I forget which mobs have which types of saves (reflex/fort/will) and I forget to use debuffers to lower in the panic of the moment of trying to kill things. I have however learnt to gather mobs in clumps, love ma jump buff, and can jump back and forth over a firewall or an icestorm like a boss.

But yeah. Nah. Sorcs are not my thing. I think I've done about 7 of them from time to time as PL on things ( I think I boxed a few too). I prefer wizards and divines for my casters. I know that tons of long time players say "but sorcs are easy" but... maybe.

Kudos to you for doing a fleshy version. Hope you enjoy other classes better. And if you do cycle round to a sorc variant again that you have the gear and DCs to have a more fun time smashing through things.

Whitering
02-11-2016, 04:27 PM
I never liked sorcs much. I play them as PL for the DC and I use an easy button WF/BF with my reconstruct. I forget which mobs have which types of saves (reflex/fort/will) and I forget to use debuffers to lower in the panic of the moment of trying to kill things. I have however learnt to gather mobs in clumps, love ma jump buff, and can jump back and forth over a firewall or an icestorm like a boss.

But yeah. Nah. Sorcs are not my thing. I think I've done about 7 of them from time to time as PL on things ( I think I boxed a few too). I prefer wizards and divines for my casters. I know that tons of long time players say "but sorcs are easy" but... maybe.

Kudos to you for doing a fleshy version. Hope you enjoy other classes better. And if you do cycle round to a sorc variant again that you have the gear and DCs to have a more fun time smashing through things.

For me, it's funny, I have a druid around level 15, a Wizard around level 15 and a Sorc around level 15. All of them play the same way, gather up some mobs, cast some kind of cc, and then ice storm or firewall them while I block with a shield, the difference is my Sorc is in heavy armor and kind of whacks at the mobs instead while firewall kills them. I am not sure what my character will be at the end, but probably a caster of some sort, likely a Cleric or Favoured soul that pew pews light damage.

Sam1313
04-26-2016, 01:27 PM
To the original poster. I don't think your doing anything wrong. I am having the same problems on my Sorc. My guy has 5 Wizard past lives (I know I know only 3 count) Went FVS one life then I decided oh yeah I'll try him out in Sorcerer since he lived through 5 wizard lifes. NOT a good idea. EITHER that class is screwed up beyond recognition or the game is FUBAR. 3 Wizard pl = a +6 to the DC of his spells right. Ok even with that and gear my Sorcerer CANNOT land a spell.
Each and Everytime I cast a spell ALL the monsters SAVES SAVES SAVES SAVES SAVES SAVES SAVES SAVES OH A HIT SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE OH ANOTHER HIT. This coupled with the way Archers is messed up along with the current LAG in the game has pushed me to just stop playing the game. This is actually my first post and the first time I've actually gone towards anything related to this game in over 2 weeks.

Enoach
04-26-2016, 01:48 PM
To the original poster. I don't think your doing anything wrong. I am having the same problems on my Sorc. My guy has 5 Wizard past lives (I know I know only 3 count) Went FVS one life then I decided oh yeah I'll try him out in Sorcerer since he lived through 5 wizard lifes. NOT a good idea. EITHER that class is screwed up beyond recognition or the game is FUBAR. 3 Wizard pl = a +6 to the DC of his spells right. Ok even with that and gear my Sorcerer CANNOT land a spell.
Each and Everytime I cast a spell ALL the monsters SAVES SAVES SAVES SAVES SAVES SAVES SAVES SAVES OH A HIT SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE OH ANOTHER HIT. This coupled with the way Archers is messed up along with the current LAG in the game has pushed me to just stop playing the game. This is actually my first post and the first time I've actually gone towards anything related to this game in over 2 weeks.

Just a couple points

3x Wizard Past lives grants the following
+6 to Spell Penetration
+6 to DC's of Wands
Access to a single feat that can be taken at Level 3+ that grants you +1 DCs to all spell schools and 10 Casts of Magic Missile that is based on Character Level.

As for the constant saves the question is what spells are you using against which mob?

Using a spell that has a Reflex save verse mobs with a high reflex save and even evasion will be troublesome. Unlike a wizard it takes a bit more effort to switch spells. I recommend getting some Dragon's Blood when you can so you can do a large scale spell switch to better match your enhancements.

The other part is you also need to have Spell Focus items to match your spells. This is sometimes overlooked during the pursuit of Spell Power and Critical multipliers.

Whitering
04-26-2016, 02:04 PM
Just a couple points

3x Wizard Past lives grants the following
+6 to Spell Penetration
+6 to DC's of Wands
Access to a single feat that can be taken at Level 3+ that grants you +1 DCs to all spell schools and 10 Casts of Magic Missile that is based on Character Level.

As for the constant saves the question is what spells are you using against which mob?

Using a spell that has a Reflex save verse mobs with a high reflex save and even evasion will be troublesome. Unlike a wizard it takes a bit more effort to switch spells. I recommend getting some Dragon's Blood when you can so you can do a large scale spell switch to better match your enhancements.

The other part is you also need to have Spell Focus items to match your spells. This is sometimes overlooked during the pursuit of Spell Power and Critical multipliers.

Unless you are doing a wholescale switching of spells, it's just free to do it every couple of days.

Duana
04-26-2016, 04:58 PM
I am not fond of fire as a primary savant line, and not fond of air at all. I prefer acid as the primary, then fire or ice. Usually Ice, acid on it's own makes spells tight and acid/fire is the worst combo of the bunch for that.

Ditch the staff as everyday carry. Get items for each element you want. The auction house can have items on the cheap if you look for mismatched items (corrosive scepter of fire lore/combustive scepter of acid lore).

I have not used quicken or enlarge on a sorc in years. Concentration is cheap, my play style does not really require the use of enlarge, and sorc feats are tight.

I generally play zergish, as someone mentioned above. Group em and nuke em. Add in some crowd control (cloudkill, web, dancing ball, or whatever). I am fond of cloudkill and web if groups warrant it, especially as an earther.

If a more subtle approach is needed I use bluff and elemental weakness to draw out mobs one at a time and wipe em out.

This is not THE way to run a sorc, it is just MY way of playing a sorc. YMMV.

Jetrule
04-26-2016, 05:43 PM
I have found that with the new gear I want the main casting damage form to have the biggest insightful spell power bonus that I can find. So my wiz has as his base equipment a insightfull force weapon +38 at lvl 14 a necklace for 80 force power and +3 evocation dc. He wears a +11 spell craft item. Dont neglect your spell craft. It seems like checking the auction house for spell power items and often using two weapons is the best way to stack spell power.

When switching to electric he uses a +99 magnetism weapon and a +30 insightful magnetism weapon dual wielding. It seems like there should be a better spell power combo than you get from the war wizard staff.

Hara
04-28-2016, 02:08 AM
My experience with Sorcs is somewhat limited and I must admit to prefering a good greataxe to a fireball.

Currently I have just the one sorc across 32 characters (3 accounts), a WF Air/Fire spec with 1 PL Wiz that I ran to 28 and ETR'd just before the lvl increase, I wish I had TR'd at the same time as I'm finding the climb back to cap tedious and long winded without access to explorer area xp.

This is my second sorc, previously I had a human acid/fire spec but I tr'd him to a FVS prior to the enhancement changes that brought us the tree system. I found the WF much easier to lvl and I think that was mostly down to the PRR and not the access to easier self healing as I solo and alwys run with a cleric hire. Playing a caster on HN its certainly possible to mow down groups of mobs with a couple of spells but I found this tactic didnt work on elite quests. When running elite I reverted to my old wizard tactics of Mind fog + Disco + firewall then drag mobs through till they all die.

Epic is a whole different ball game for casters, without any EPLs (draconic) your damage output will suck so stay well away from anything other than EN if soloing, turbine need to look again at spell scaling but I suspect they find it easier to boost spell power instead.

For gear I find sorc much easier to sort out than a wizard, and the cannith challenge gear is the place to go, only the cold item is a disappointment being an outfit (why?), the bracers and cloak are a must imho for a fire/air sorc and easy to get. After that all you really need are a few stat items and some DC boosts, spell pen was never an issue for me on sorcs as i dont often cast spells that are subject to it and even mobs with SR fail if you drag them through enough times.

Enoach
04-28-2016, 09:25 AM
...
For gear I find sorc much easier to sort out than a wizard, and the cannith challenge gear is the place to go, only the cold item is a disappointment being an outfit (why?), the bracers and cloak are a must imho for a fire/air sorc and easy to get. After that all you really need are a few stat items and some DC boosts, spell pen was never an issue for me on sorcs as i dont often cast spells that are subject to it and even mobs with SR fail if you drag them through enough times.

I see the difference as similar to a Two Handed Fighter (sorc) and Two Weapon Fighter (Wizard). The Wizard excels with lots of gear for different flexibility so they can either Maximize DCs of a specific school, or enhance damage. I know on my Wizard I have setups for different School focus and also Spell Power/Critical damage for when it calls for that.

On my Sorcerer Lives I needed two elements and focus on two to three schools at most. But also didn't need to have Spell Penetration.

So just like a Two Weapon fighter a Wizard has to have a bigger golf bag to cover all situations. That is if the player does take advantage of the Wizard's spell switch capabilities. Of course you can play your wizard on a single spell setup thus needing less gear, but for me I don't find that to be fun.