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NoWorries
12-10-2015, 03:11 PM
Randomized loot is a bit further along than with the last Lammania preview.

-New scaling effects should be dropping in all slots, and the majority of that should be the correct effects (some are probably still missing)

-Weapon +W bonuses are automatically applied at different minimum levels and go higher than before. Note - these no longer have an effect description to go along with them so you will not see Paragon/Epic etc. There will just be a +W bonus applied and listed in the damage section:

Min level 10 = +0.5W
Min Level 20 = +1.0W
Min Level 24 = +2.0W
Min Level 28 = +3.0W


-Clarification - I've seen a lot of mention of players thinking that only one level of an effect will drop at Minimum level. Most effects come in a range of power for any given minimum level. Example - a min level 20 item could come with Strength +7, +8, or +9.


Some things still not working:

-Different levels of Vorpal are not dropping, only the base one. - fixed in latest update
-Likely some +0 insightful bonuses dropping in the first couple levels of loot
-Lucky loot does not have different border colors yet - fixed in latest update
-Scaling version of Spellcraft does not exist yet and therefore doesn't drop in random loot currently
-Effects aren't restricted by type yet, so you will see things such as both melee and ranged alacrity show up on the same item -fixed in latest update
-Healing/repair amp not currently scaling



Other things of note:

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.

-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.



And as always, looking for any feedback/issues as players get in and find random loot throughout the Lammania preview.

EllisDee37
12-10-2015, 03:21 PM
Shorter descriptions are better. I personally don't need a whole paragraph, or even a single line, explaining to me that the +11 Enhancement Bonus on my sword adds +11 attack and damage.

I guess I don't need the Paragon/Epic/etc.. descriptions, but I find them useful. With epic destinies, ship buffs, enhancements, etc.. there are many times when it's not obvious exactly how much +[W] I'm getting from the weapon itself compared to other sources. The current in-game descriptions are nice for that.

I think I'd kind of like Masterful description to stay. I don't trust colored borders, and some people are colorblind. Feel free to shorten it up to the extreme if you like. Something like: "Masterful Craftsmanship: This item is more powerful than normal."

Regarding the level of random loot in quests, I still think it's weird that if you run with ship buffs (+2 loot bonus?) you can't use anything you pull until you take a couple more levels. I guess a range of -2 to +0 loot compared to quest level (plus loot bonuses) could solve that.

UurlockYgmeov
12-10-2015, 03:25 PM
I like. Keep going.

Lucky - yes would like more information - but could push the 'Lucky' information in two ways - different colored text (I know this would be new technology) or indicated by a symbol on the specific effect that is lucky. Could also put the 'Lucky' text at the end/bottom - so wouldn't clutter. Newspaper article writing - pyramid shape (put the beef first, and expand later). Allows for quick skim and full disclosure later. Could Also change the background of the icon or the text (some new tech maybe).

Cursed. Yes. bring it on! It gives interest and something to talk about. 'pulled x today and it was the ultimate monk item -- if only it wasn't cursed.'

Enhancement listing - KISS - so the question is does having more information help the player or not? How important is this information if is valuable?


SO if valuable and important: yes, keep it and keep it prominent (higher , earlier)
if valuable or important but not both: yes, but keep it later, lower and not so prominent
if neither - then don't include it.

Qhualor
12-10-2015, 03:57 PM
Other things of note:

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.

-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.



And as always, looking for any feedback/issues as players get in and find random loot throughout the Lammania preview.

ive always hated cursed items. I never wore any of them and just vendored them off. please do not let them come back.

if we can have both text and border highlights it would be great. if not, than at least the border highlight.

this is fine, but the more information we have the better. some of us aren't very good with figuring out DDO math and where all the effects come from.

I still like loot dropping for the minimum level of the quest. I don't have a well thought out reason. I just prefer it that way. I wont care really either way.

Mithis
12-10-2015, 04:01 PM
I do not object to the idea of cursed items dropping but I feel it could wait for a patch if dev time is a potential problem.

I would also like to see 'lucky' text stay for same reasons as EllisDee.

On the enhancement text...I vote vote keeping it. I know most players don't need the additional description but I think it is useful for a new player.

Last, I vote for a range on the loot. Maybe -2 to +1??

FranOhmsford
12-10-2015, 04:12 PM
ive always hated cursed items. I never wore any of them and just vendored them off. please do not let them come back.

Gotta second this.

maddong
12-10-2015, 04:12 PM
Regarding the strength item example. Currently I think it is something like +6 ML 20, +7 ML 21, +8 ML 24, +9 ML 26, +10 ML 28, +11 ML 30 (wondrous ML 28). I'm probably off on those but regardless making ML 20 up to +9 is a lot of inflation.
I would do something like:
ML 20 +7
ML 22 +8
ML 24 +9
ML 26 +10
ML 28 +11
ML 30 +12
ML 31 (masterful craft ML 30) +13
ML 32 (wondrous item ML 30) +14
For a little less stat inflation in the early epics and making the high stat bonuses more rare on random items.

I'm ok with removing cursed items and just keeping masterful craftsmanship/wondrous item. I'd like them in the text in case I forget what the border color means.

I'm ok with removing the enhancement bonus from text to decrease the spam.

Before the update 19 ghost baning of the loot people had to run higher level of quests to get their loot (I think it was quest level -3 because people used to need bonus loot weekends to get the top level loot they needed). That made the equipment you needed more rare and I think was better for the economy. I would stagger the loot level a little.
Level (chest level = quest level):
1-8 = loot level = chest level
9-16 = level minus one (level 15 loot in a 16 chest)
17-24 = level minus two (level 22 loot in an 24 chest)
25+ = level minus three (level 30 loot in a 33 chest)
That would mean that a level 33 quest (legendary elite) would get you level 30 loot without any bonuses.
A level 30 quest with a +2 jewel and + 1 guild boost would also drop level 30 loot.
That will make loot boosts useful again (as opposed to now when you announce +2 loot bonus and no one cares... people used to play specifically for the loot boosts but not since Update 19).

FranOhmsford
12-10-2015, 04:19 PM
-Clarification - I've seen a lot of mention of players thinking that only one level of an effect will drop at Minimum level. Most effects come in a range of power for any given minimum level. Example - a min level 20 item could come with Strength +7, +8, or +9.


So can we get some sort of idea for those of us who can't get on Lamannia of what loot is going to look like post Update 29 vs pre Update 29?

Example:

Current Clean +6 Strength item = Min Lvl 11 {9 if Masterful Craftmanship}
Will future Min Lvl items with Strength on them be +6 Str or will they be more like +4 Str because of the other effects and the fact that we seem to be completely losing Clean items?

Basically - Will say a +4 Str Ring of +7 Disable Device be dropping a that level or will we be getting a +6 Str of +10 or 11 Disable Device?


Will old Clean items become uber AH and Banked items held on to for years or will they become utter vendor trash? {I'm sorry but I can't see a middle ground?}.

Krelar
12-10-2015, 04:22 PM
-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.


How is lucky loot going to work on the auction house? Currently the auction house checks the name of the item, will this show up as a third effect in the name somehow or do we have to scroll through every item of that level looking for them? (Are there any plans to someday rework the AH so that it searches the effects rather than the name?)

Milikki
12-10-2015, 04:24 PM
Are you going to fix the tables for items like vorpal, paralyzing so they can be had below level 20 again? As is now, everything saves except on a 1 making those effects instant vendor trash.

RobbinB
12-10-2015, 04:30 PM
[/LIST]
-Clarification - I've seen a lot of mention of players thinking that only one level of an effect will drop at Minimum level. Most effects come in a range of power for any given minimum level. Example - a min level 20 item could come with Strength +7, +8, or +9.


This is not a trivial point. As another poster brings up, +7 Str for ML 20 is OK, but +9 is over-the-top power-creepy.

But if the +8 and +9 are set up as "lucky" rolls, where their probability is not equal to the +7, that could work. Maybe 90% chance of +7, 7.5% chance of +8, and 2.5% chance of +9?

This also helps fend of the potential ridulous +9 str/+max ins str ML 20 item. Yes, this item would be possible, but very unlikely, as you would need to have str come up for both attributes AND hit two separate 2.5% rolls (for my suggestion), which isn't very likely.

So, to sum up, if the +7 to +9 in your proposed loot system are of equal probability, I think the system is a power-creep disaster. If you weight the probabilities appropriately, then it could work nicely. So which is the plan?

EDIT: for ML 20, based on existing game, I would believe +6 to +9 range makes more sense with probability of 60/35/4/1 for +6/+7/+8/+9. Even that is probably excessive power-creep.

SableShadow
12-10-2015, 04:38 PM
If you weight the probabilities appropriately, then it could work nicely.

I would have a care here; given enough time, there will be a lot of this out there ... you're just delaying, not mitigating.

RD2play
12-10-2015, 04:58 PM
Randomized loot is a bit further along than with the last Lammania preview.

-New scaling effects should be dropping in all slots, and the majority of that should be the correct effects (some are probably still missing)

-Weapon +W bonuses are automatically applied at different minimum levels and go higher than before. Note - these no longer have an effect description to go along with them so you will not see Paragon/Epic etc. There will just be a +W bonus applied and listed in the damage section:

Min level 10 = +0.5W
Min Level 20 = +1.0W
Min Level 24 = +2.0W
Min Level 28 = +3.0W
This is going to have to be listed for reasons already provided, my vote goes to Paragon, Epic, Epic Paragon, Legendary


-Clarification - I've seen a lot of mention of players thinking that only one level of an effect will drop at Minimum level. Most effects come in a range of power for any given minimum level. Example - a min level 20 item could come with Strength +7, +8, or +9.these values are a bit high compared to life, are you going to provide similar bonuses to s/s/s items in a future pass? else I would say 6/7/8 would be as high as I would go for ml20 and then still, you are pushing it.



Some things still not working:

-Different levels of Vorpal are not dropping, only the base one.
-Likely some +0 insightful bonuses dropping in the first couple levels of loot
-Lucky loot does not have different border colors yet
-Scaling version of Spellcraft does not exist yet and therefore doesn't drop in random loot currently
-Effects aren't restricted by type yet, so you will see things such as both melee and ranged alacrity show up on the same item
-Healing/repair amp not currently scaling




Other things of note:

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.They are great flavour but I wont miss them if they are gone.


-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.Different border would be enough IMO, the masterful effect was nice when it actually affected the ML of the item but otherwise I see no reason for it to be listed. Although I could see Cursed/Masterful relate to the general power vs ml of an item so a Lucky roll would give you masterful(so you know the values are better), and an unlucky roll gives cursed. So not curse would not be giving any negative stats, it will just be an indication that this item could be considered trash as other items with the same tier effects exist with a lower ML.


-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.No this should stay listed! Also just like effects I think a ML item should be able to drop with ML-1, ML or ML+1 enhancement bonus.


-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.I think a range would be best, people have already stated how they dislike pulling loot they cannot directly use. I myself don't really have a problem with this. But you will have to consider loot weekend, ship buffs and gems. These easily put a chest well above the level of the quest and thus with a static ML would always give out "too high ML'" loots.




And as always, looking for any feedback/issues as players get in and find random loot throughout the Lammania preview.
Glad to be of service :)

Systern
12-10-2015, 05:11 PM
Randomized loot is a bit further along than with the last Lammania preview.
...snip...

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

Cursed and Master/Wonderful Craftsmanship were the only loot that I looked at. When the system first launches, it'll be new and shiny and we'll look at everything. In 6 months, we'll go back to being platcapped and consider all this vendor trash once again and these variations keep it interesting.


-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.

A quick one liner is nice. Just numbers can easily be overlooked. I recently pointed out to a friend that's been playing since beta that Dueling Schlager actually has an increased die-step... Also, its nice to clarify that your "Exceptional Skill: farting +2" is actually an insight typed bonus.



-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

If you get rid of the item's "potential" number, won't that completely destroy cannith crafting until/if it gets its update?



-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.

I'd prefer the range. With ship buff +1 loot, and the +2 loot weekend etc... I get bored/confused on never being able to find something I can use right now, and don't want to think "Will this be good in 2 days when I level?" and either leave it or sell it immediately. It also begs the question "Wait, I'm doing this at level and roflstomping it... how did these kobolds manage to kill the guy with better loot than I'm wearing now to keep in this chest?" I want to grow into named gear, and possibly find a random thing to use now.

maddong
12-10-2015, 05:46 PM
This is not a trivial point. As another poster brings up, +7 Str for ML 20 is OK, but +9 is over-the-top power-creepy.

But if the +8 and +9 are set up as "lucky" rolls, where their probability is not equal to the +7, that could work. Maybe 90% chance of +7, 7.5% chance of +8, and 2.5% chance of +9?

This also helps fend of the potential ridulous +9 str/+max ins str ML 20 item. Yes, this item would be possible, but very unlikely, as you would need to have str come up for both attributes AND hit two separate 2.5% rolls (for my suggestion), which isn't very likely.

So, to sum up, if the +7 to +9 in your proposed loot system are of equal probability, I think the system is a power-creep disaster. If you weight the probabilities appropriately, then it could work nicely. So which is the plan?

EDIT: for ML 20, based on existing game, I would believe +6 to +9 range makes more sense with probability of 60/35/4/1 for +6/+7/+8/+9. Even that is probably excessive power-creep.

I think the lucky roll should be the "wondrous item" not an additional stat range.
If +9 stat items drop as ML 20 without wondrous item then +7/8 is just vendor trash and +9 will eventually be the new normal with a +11 wondrous item ML20 item not far behind.

So I'd either keep ML20 items at +6 or increase them to +7.

Also bring back convalescent bracers of parrying....

sirgog
12-10-2015, 05:57 PM
On curses:

-1 stat for -2 ML isn't very impactful. It's strong, but not very noticeable.

I'd rather see a more noticeable curse with more power.

Take the time on these and get them right. Cursed items should be polarizing, and it's perfectly fine if an item rolls that one player looks at and says "oh wow, that's amazing" while a different player looks at the same item and says "trash tier".




On min levels:

Can we have an uneven distribution? Perhaps 65% of drops are quest level, 30% are QL-1, 4% are QL-2, 1% QL-3.

DarkSable
12-10-2015, 06:23 PM
There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.

If it drops with the minimum level of the quest, then there's absolutely no benefit in challenging myself to do an at-level quest on elite, because it's just giving me items that I can't use yet, but that when I can use them, are no better than what I get breezing through an at level quest on normal.

I would prefer to have -2 of the quest level, or if it's a range, have a decent spread. The other thing that would make me absolutely ecstatic is have the items be generated at the ML of the quest, but with a much higher chance of having -1 / -2 minimum level. (Kind of like an inverse lucky, that's more common and less powerful than lucky.)

Seriously, this is a change that would make a LOT of players happy. We used to have a ton of very nice TR gear that was low or no minimum level. It wasn't impacting the balance of the game, it just made the early levels (some of the most painful and wonky) of a TR smoother. These items got removed or had a "normal" minimum level applied to them with the first random loot pass, making entire chains (The flavorful and fun sharn syndicate, for example), pointless to own or run, because of negligible xp and no useful loot. I would really, really like to see something implemented to make up for that, since the TR grind is one of the cooler appeals of this game.



Indicated by a symbol on the specific effect that is lucky. This. I want to see which enchantment is the bonus one. I would also really appreciate being able to search for lucky items specifically in the AH... but really, that has to wait until Dev time can go to an AH update... which will hopefully come soon, because it would go a long way towards jumpstarting the games' economy again. Regardless, as long as there's a quick way to 1) see that the item has a lucky enchantment (even just lucky in its name) and 2) notice them while searching through chest loot or the AH (a different color border and lucky in the name would fix that), we'd be good.

slarden
12-10-2015, 06:41 PM
- +21 to UMD seems excessive to me, but it doesn't bother me if it stays either
- when showing items to people the effects do not display properly, but they do for me (shows type of bonus but not # to others)
- parrying item had +6 bonus to AC and +12 bonus to saves - quite a jump from what existing items have

Overall, the loot is much more interesting.

Silverleafeon
12-10-2015, 06:42 PM
-Weapon +W bonuses are automatically applied at different minimum levels and go higher than before. Note - these no longer have an effect description to go along with them so you will not see Paragon/Epic etc. There will just be a +W bonus applied and listed in the damage section:

Min level 10 = +0.5W
Min Level 20 = +1.0W
Min Level 24 = +2.0W
Min Level 28 = +3.0W


Given a min level 32 (lucky loot) would that become +4.0W ?
I don't need a classification to appreciate a +X W




Other things of note:

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.



I would prefer to reclassify Mastercraftmanship and Cursed into Lucky I, Lucky II, Lucky III, etc loot.

I have no problems with cards being color coded, but would like to use the auction house to search for lucky loot somehow.

I have yet to find a cursed item that I am really admiring and using, so frankly its a waste of coding.
Would prefer time spent on possible Lucky Boost potions (won in silver / gold rolls / ddo store / rare drop).
Would prefer various forms of lucky loot including masterful craftsmanship.




-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.


That seem fine to me.




-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.


As before, I remain opposed to a range of levels and would prefer to only drop min level of the quest. As far as I can remember moving towards ransacking used to affect min levels anyway, would prefer that not happen till ransack warning appears. However if certain things only drop on odd or even numbers for some strange reason, then a range of 0 to -1 would be appropriate.

If a level range is chosen, I would prefer it to be as small as possible.



And as always, looking for any feedback/issues as players get in and find random loot throughout the Lammania preview.

Thanks for listening.

Propane
12-10-2015, 06:50 PM
Hello!

Are drops going to have a chance to have a special base material (flame touched, cold iron, silver, etc...)?
Are drops gong to have a chance to have both special base material and a slot?

(these make wonderful crafting blanks - assuming we will still need them).

I am excited to see the Base Damaged increased at higher levels, good foreshadowing for the upcoming crafting update - more possible usable high end crafted gear!

TIA-

Propane

Propane
12-10-2015, 07:34 PM
-Weapon +W bonuses are automatically applied at different minimum levels and go higher than before. Note - these no longer have an effect description to go along with them so you will not see Paragon/Epic etc. There will just be a +W bonus applied and listed in the damage section:

Min level 10 = +0.5W
Min Level 20 = +1.0W
Min Level 24 = +2.0W
Min Level 28 = +3.0W




Is / was there any consideration to increase the +W on the old epic / Alchemical / CiTW / other named items?

Edwinge
12-10-2015, 07:54 PM
It's looking good for the most part.

I don't mind having cursed items. I also wouldn't mind not having them.

I'd like to see some text that indicated a lucky roll. Border colors are hard to see a lot of times.

As for the minimum level of the items, I really like the idea of having them equal to the quest level. What I do not like is having loot boosts up that level. If I'm running a level 12 quest with a +3 loot boost, I do not want to see level 15 items. I want to still see level 12 items, but better ones, on average.

Since you've clarified that specific minimum levels have a range that effects can be at, why not have loot boosts simply skew that range upwards? In your level 20 example, strength can be +7, +8, or +9. Is that an equal chance for each? Regardless, what I'm proposing is to have the loot boosts modify the chance for each so that the higher values are more likely. Since I don't know how you currently have it decide which value within the range, I'm going to, as an example, assume that it's a die roll. Lets say that for your level 20 strength example, a d100 is rolled and 1-40 is +7, 41-70 is +8, and 71-100 is +9. With my proposal, a +1 loot boost could modify that so that a 1-35 is a +7, 36-68 is +8, and 69-100 is +9.

Obviously these numbers won't be right but I hope that they convey my idea for having loot boost improve the chances for better gear rather than simply giving you higher level gear.

Gene8808
12-10-2015, 08:15 PM
Jumped on and ran a few quests and it seems pretty solid. I did notice a few things, though.

1. I found a kama with "Weapon's Vampirism Effect" which was supposed to heal me for 1d3 points of damage when I hit things with it. The effect worked, but not on me. It healed enemies that I hit with it. Also, it was on the item twice, but I figure that's something you guys already know about.

2. Resistance boosts still seem too common on non-weapons. It seems that almost every non-weapon magical item I pick up has one or several resistances on it. Admittedly, at the high end, the resistances are better (was running around with ~70 acid resist at one point), but still, maybe tone them back.

---

Aside from the above, I'm still wondering whether or not we'll be seeing the return of some old properties that are only currently available via Cannith Crafting. Stuff like bodyfeeder and whatnot. I'd love to see status effect enhancements sticking around with some scaling to their DCs.

I'll also echo the question many folks have asked: Is anything being done to keep older named items viable?

geoffhanna
12-10-2015, 08:35 PM
I like cursed items because they sometimes let me slot something before I am supposed to be able to slot it.

If they continued to work like that, then yes, please add them back.

gphysalis
12-10-2015, 08:41 PM
-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

Several things adjust this, so you should probably keep it in the description.

Holymunchkin
12-10-2015, 08:42 PM
do not invalidate doj, deathwyrm, or firepeaks items with random gen loot. at least not doj. adjust the stat points etc

thanks

- Meow

Saekee
12-10-2015, 09:12 PM
yes to descriptions. There is an option to remove long descriptions that players can select if they do not want them; it is accessed in the main window.

yes to things like 'Paragon weapon' instead of just adding damage. Let us get excited not by just numbers.

yes to cursed items. Make the curses stronger so they could even be used tacticaly (dropping wisdom for Crucible test, switching in noisy gear for making intentional footfalls briefly for stealth play, etc.) People are **supposed** to be against them. Have them drop the
min level significantly. Have some curses actually good for some builds (like one that has a neg energy backlash that actually heals pale masters). Have some effects mixed, like how the polycurse blade curses enemies but sometimes you.

no to too much power creep...

eris2323
12-10-2015, 10:18 PM
Would anyone mind posting some examples of the loot, and say what level quest they got it in?

Apparently, I am unable to ever copy characters, and well, I'd like to see some examples.

Since Turbine doesn't give a rats arse that some can't copy chars to Lam.

UurlockYgmeov
12-10-2015, 11:43 PM
I'd like to see some text that indicated a lucky roll. Border colors are hard to see a lot of times.

And or a special sound when the chest is opened to signify 'you've gotten lucky' (please --- cheesy 70's porn music! :eek::rolleyes::cool: )




1. I found a kama with "Weapon's Vampirism Effect" which was supposed to heal me for 1d3 points of damage when I hit things with it. The effect worked, but not on me. It healed enemies that I hit with it. Also, it was on the item twice, but I figure that's something you guys already know about.

I'll also echo the question many folks have asked: Is anything being done to keep older named items viable?


Looks like you found the new cursed effect! just like PnP you have to find out the 'curse' through trial and error! :P

As far as old stuff being kept relevant - is you Motorola StarTec flip phone still relevant?

Finally - Loot Boosts should NOT affect the ml of the loot. I don't mind a little randomness (ml of loot = to quest level (unless lucky and masterful or wondrous)) - but also don't want to have to try and compute what level of loot will be when I go looking for specific level of loot (want ml:15 gear, go questing for it)

Cleanincubus
12-10-2015, 11:50 PM
So can we get some sort of idea for those of us who can't get on Lamannia of what loot is going to look like post Update 29 vs pre Update 29?

Example:

Current Clean +6 Strength item = Min Lvl 11 {9 if Masterful Craftmanship}
Will future Min Lvl items with Strength on them be +6 Str or will they be more like +4 Str because of the other effects and the fact that we seem to be completely losing Clean items?

Basically - Will say a +4 Str Ring of +7 Disable Device be dropping a that level or will we be getting a +6 Str of +10 or 11 Disable Device?


Will old Clean items become uber AH and Banked items held on to for years or will they become utter vendor trash? {I'm sorry but I can't see a middle ground?}.

Someone in the Dev chat posted up a level 30 +14 STR/+13 some other stat (I want to say CON), all one item. We were told that this is expected to be the norm, because of 2 reasons. Reason #1 is that it didn't have a augment slot, so it was able to be both +14 one stat, and +13 of another. Reason #2 is because everyone has complained about current random loot being vendor trash, and they want to make it more exciting.

More power creep incoming shortly people...

PsychoBlonde
12-11-2015, 12:30 AM
I kind of like the idea of the enhancement bonus only adding to the item + value and not showing in the list of effects, but my preference isn't strong so I won't fight over it. I have constant problems with items exceeding the size of my screen (I have an older monitor) so fewer listed effects sounds good to me.

If you're changing how item names display, could you put some thought into making it easier to tell what's on an item without viewing the full examine window? Searching for something even a little specific on the AH is a pain. Getting a signifier like "Augmented" if it has augment slots would be really, really nice.

UurlockYgmeov
12-11-2015, 12:38 AM
random loot should be interesting to look at --- but only 10% should be great, and only .1% should be uber. 70% should be ok, and 30% should be meh.

Gene8808
12-11-2015, 03:12 AM
As far as old stuff being kept relevant - is you Motorola StarTec flip phone still relevant?
In the sense that I can still use it to serve its intended purpose, yes.

My worry with the new loot system is that old named loot is going to become completely useless by comparison. I'm perfectly fine with rare random drops being better than non-raid named loot. I just don't want to see all named loot relegated to the junk pile. I want to still have some excitement to the blue border items dropping before level cap.

I would love to see named items dropped into their own niche of being surefire sources of specific affix combinations. Sure, you can hunt for the perfect random drop that's going to be better, but if you want a slightly less insane grind for something that's still fairly solid, you can run for named items.

janave
12-11-2015, 04:01 AM
Keep cursed please, it is a rare case of trade-off in DDO, and it makes the loot more diverse/interesting.

Iriale
12-11-2015, 05:22 AM
Cursed items are not very interesting. ok with not dropping.

kanordog
12-11-2015, 05:37 AM
Someone in the Dev chat posted up a level 30 +14 STR/+13 some other stat (I want to say CON), all one item. We were told that this is expected to be the norm, because of 2 reasons. Reason #1 is that it didn't have a augment slot, so it was able to be both +14 one stat, and +13 of another. Reason #2 is because everyone has complained about current random loot being vendor trash, and they want to make it more exciting.

More power creep incoming shortly people...

Yeah, it seems all the time I spent on farming (the few still useful) named items and level my (hardly useful anymore) crafting skills will just become a waste.


There will be just more "no challenge left" threads will pop up then more champions then buffed up classes and better loot then more "no challenge left" threads will pop up then more champions then buffed up classes and better loot then more "no challenge left" threads will pop up then more champions then buffed up classes and better loot then more "no challenge left" threads will pop up then more champions then buffed up classes and better loot then more "no challenge left" threads will pop up then more champions then buffed up classes and better loot etc...



Honestly guys, I am not an elite player but overpowered random loot does bother me as they don't require any sort of investment to get, so please if You can just don't ghostbane it!

RD2play
12-11-2015, 05:54 AM
I kind of like the idea of the enhancement bonus only adding to the item + value and not showing in the list of effects, but my preference isn't strong so I won't fight over it. I have constant problems with items exceeding the size of my screen (I have an older monitor) so fewer listed effects sounds good to me.

If you're changing how item names display, could you put some thought into making it easier to tell what's on an item without viewing the full examine window? Searching for something even a little specific on the AH is a pain. Getting a signifier like "Augmented" if it has augment slots would be really, really nice.


You can already opt to not show full descriptions on items through advanced options. they will still be listed but only by their name. you can then mouse over to read the full effect. Or toggle in options to show full descriptions, read what it is and then toggle back.

Atremus
12-11-2015, 06:07 AM
Hello!

Are drops going to have a chance to have a special base material (flame touched, cold iron, silver, etc...)?
Are drops gong to have a chance to have both special base material and a slot?


I looted a +12 Silver Kama from Grim and Barett (EH) this morning. Item effects were 6d6 Chaos Damage, 20 Radiance Lore an a Red Slot, ML30. So it seems that they included based materials.

janave
12-11-2015, 06:24 AM
Yeah, it seems all the time I spent on farming (the few still useful) named items and level my (hardly useful anymore) crafting skills will just become a waste.


There will be just more "no challenge left" threads will pop up then more champions then buffed up classes and better loot then more "no challenge left" threads will pop up then more champions then buffed up classes and better loot then more "no challenge left" threads will pop up then more champions then buffed up classes and better loot then more "no challenge left" threads will pop up then more champions then buffed up classes and better loot then more "no challenge left" threads will pop up then more champions then buffed up classes and better loot etc...



Honestly guys, I am not an elite player but overpowered random loot does bother me as they don't require any sort of investment to get, so please if You can just don't ghostbane it!


Even the best loots posted are about 2-3 effective points ahead of current loot. Stats hardly gonna be overpowering in current end-game where its all about scaling power vs base dmg anyway. Rand loot wont have mythic tiers (id imagine so) which goes up to +4 on a single item, and adds up very quickly if you only go for named gear in all slots. There is a lot of 5-10-20 flat % based boost on named items where randgen has no dice to even make up for the difference. Plenty of room still to play with only named gear and not missing out (even if you are purely minmax on a DC build).

Those players who mostly complain for lack of challenge have almost exclusively top-tier raid pieces slotted, or the better of the latest named gear. Usually paired with mortal fear or ESOS / Other crit minmax based builds.

If you are worried about powercreep, it is not in the extra 2-3 points at level 30 on randgen gear. Its always about a combination of gear/build effects that trivialize content.

(Aside: If you really are worried about powercreep, look at the new feats, and the caster pass which gonna make warlock pretty much ALT+F4 for anyone not playing one.)

Deathdefy
12-11-2015, 06:35 AM
Please, please don't give a 'range' to loot. If players have to wait a level or two before using the shiny thing you pulled from the quest while levelling up, that's probably a benefit - anticipation being better than the actual thing and all that.

The trade-off at cap farming the highest end chests, wasting loot gems and time spent farming treasure maps on a 1/3 chance (assuming ML 0 to ML -2) for gear that is even potentially the best would be incredibly frustrating. I'd sort of enjoy reading the rage threads, but the very real frustration at wasting real money for Loot Gems, and tripling the time required to pull a perfect item is a huge negative.

This demographic of 'first time players levelling up through heroic without twink gear' that you might think you're appeasing is miniscule and like I said, waiting a level or two isn't a big deal.

nibel
12-11-2015, 06:49 AM
Healing/repair amp not currently scaling

Am I reading this right that a single enchantment will buff both healing AND repair amp at the same time (if so, yay!), or are you talking about two different enchantments?

Also, what about Deathblock adding Negative Healing Amp at the same time, to counterbalance the base loss of negative effects? (Eg, Deathblock X absorbs 30% of negative energy, but also gives 50~70% negative amp, since it only affect characters in undead form to start with)


Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)?

Green border (to differentiate from legacy MC items, who have blue border), with maybe the third slot effect being named "lucky" (Eg, Lucky Insightful Dodge or Lucky Feather Falling).


Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

My only worries is with the crafting systems that check for weapon enhancement value. The ones I care the most are power cell charging on Shroud, and Handwraps Conversion to Collar on the trapmaking station. Since you guys are also working on a revamped cannith crafting system, it stay out of the list.


There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.

If I'm running a level X quest, it makes sense that if I'm also at level X, I'll be able to immediately equip anything I pull from that quest. So, I agree with a cap at X as well.

What I believe should be done is a change to loot boost effects. I have no idea what should be done on this front, but looting X+5 level gear is frustrating for players that like the "use what drop while questing" style while TRing.

Augon
12-11-2015, 08:46 AM
Add my name to the list of folks who would like the cursed items dropped. They really aren't needed.

I think you need to keep the descriptions in. I know some veterans do not need it and knows what a +10 on an item does. But for new players, these descriptions help clarify things easily and quickly.

Maatogaeoth
12-11-2015, 10:16 AM
I like the cursed items. Would be more interesting if the curses were more .... powerful than just a -1 to a stat.

XodousRoC
12-11-2015, 10:37 AM
So can we get some sort of idea for those of us who can't get on Lamannia of what loot is going to look like post Update 29 vs pre Update 29?

Example:

Current Clean +6 Strength item = Min Lvl 11 {9 if Masterful Craftmanship}
Will future Min Lvl items with Strength on them be +6 Str or will they be more like +4 Str because of the other effects and the fact that we seem to be completely losing Clean items?

Basically - Will say a +4 Str Ring of +7 Disable Device be dropping a that level or will we be getting a +6 Str of +10 or 11 Disable Device?


Will old Clean items become uber AH and Banked items held on to for years or will they become utter vendor trash? {I'm sorry but I can't see a middle ground?}.

Basically, the potential bonus on like level new loot will be higher, along with higher benefit riders. The suffix does not penalize the min level of prefix and vice-versa. So, instead of a 'clean' +6 at level 11, consider you may be able to get +6 str/+3 ins str with a slot for the same min lvl. It's a straight up buff to random gen loot and multiple effects on such.

Engoril
12-11-2015, 10:37 AM
-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.



Keep the description. Named items don't show this bonus in their name, so you'd have to keep the description for them. It is therefore more consistent and less confusing to keep it on both.

What you can do which would be much appreciated, is change the description to match the item type.
Currently on a weapon, it describes what it does for a shield and armor too.

On a weapon I'd like it simplified to say just +n to damage and attack rolls
On an armor just say +n to armor class
Only on a shield say +n to damage rolls, attack rolls and armor class

DANTEIL
12-11-2015, 11:33 AM
Most of this looks good, but just adding a couple of thoughts about some of this (considering I rely on random loot drops quite heavily)


Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

Cursed items are auto-vendor for me. I struggle enough trying to raise my various abilities that I don't need something that has any detrimental effects. They are a neat carryover from pencil and paper but don't really seem to work in DDO.


Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

My preference would be keep the item descriptions. I am not an expert at this game and so I rely heavily on looking at the item descriptions to try to figure out what gear might be better or worse for me. Maybe I'm just simple :) but the various effects and stacking rules are so complicated in this game that I kind of need it spelled out for me. My fear (without seeing this on Lamannia yet) is that I will be having to do more guesswork to figure out what would help me most.

dunklezhan
12-11-2015, 11:40 AM
I do not object to the idea of cursed items dropping but I feel it could wait for a patch if dev time is a potential problem.

I would also like to see 'lucky' text stay for same reasons as EllisDee.

On the enhancement text...I vote vote keeping it. I know most players don't need the additional description but I think it is useful for a new player.

Last, I vote for a range on the loot. Maybe -2 to +1??

All of this.

dunklezhan
12-11-2015, 11:46 AM
-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect.



I think it might be better to phrase it that a +11 enhancement bonus weapon will always be a +11 power item. Initially I thought you were saying if you looted a waepon with a +10 power level (like you need for shroud power cells) it would have a +10 enhancement bonus and I was thinking that at L15-17 that's at risk of, shall we say, "overperforming", or alternatively it would mean that you'd need to be looting from mid epic quests before you could get powercells for heroic shroud. Both of which would seem wrong.

Anyway, whether it is the power level following the enhancement level or vice versa, don't forget the impact to things like Heroic Shroud and the existing (as well as future) Cannith Crafting.

Kamode_Corebasher
12-11-2015, 12:49 PM
There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.

Hopefully you noted my previous comment to this...to reiterate it: keep the level of dropped loot to the same level the quest is being run on, with a variance of -1 or -2 to level of loot. I really feel that a + to loot boost should be affecting the chance to get stronger gear at the same level the quest is being run, not adding to the ML of the loot being dropped.

Now I know you stated recently that you would keep the current loot boosts functioning the same for those players who like it as-is, but would possibly/probably add this "chance for stronger loot but not increase the ML" type of bonus in a new boost that could be added to the game. Please do this! <--are you planning/implementing this???

I guess I should state that I do see a benefit to raising the ML of the chest for chances at higher level tomes. <--actually, please state how this will work! Example on how I believe it currently works: I run a level 32 quest with no loot boosts and there is a small chance for a +6 tome to drop. I run a level 32 quest with a +5 loot boost bonus, and the chest will have a chance to drop +7 tomes. <--is this correct?????

Another point: the ship buff that boosts the ML by one(1) ...can that be changed to "chance for stronger loot but not increase the ML" type of bonus or (better idea) to a similar ship buff that can be bought so I can swap the one I currently have?

Another point: CURRENTLY ON LIVE--I run a level 31 quest with a +5 loot boost bonus, and the chest ML will "roll over" to a lvl 27 ML. <--are you fixing this???


Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

I like the idea of cursed items. Problem is, the current curses are meh and those items are also meh. I would really like to hear your current thoughts on how you would change this.

Since I'm at it, I've always enjoyed the discovery of loot in a game via "identify"...someone in the party having a good spellcraft skill in order to identify an item...or having to take the item to a vendor who could. I'd think this add would be a huge development undertaking and not worth the time...but what if this only applied to the discovery of the curse?...and only players could attempt the identify....and level 30 items needing an almost unachievable spellcraft roll. And the "put it on to see what changes" as a workaround isn't such a good thing, as you could make cursed loot unremovable unless you go see the one guy in Eberron who now co-habitates with Fred in Jorasco...his services traded for lots of money or dragonshards or ?

RistoffDervish
12-11-2015, 01:01 PM
-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.



Is this your solution to having deadly on weapons? If so I like it. I know you said 1/2 the people say they want deadly on a weapon, but honestly, I have never met one and if I did I might take a minute and explain why it is a terrible idea. Deadly needs to be on items - never on a weapon.

Thanks for your time.

Grailhawk
12-11-2015, 01:19 PM
Is this your solution to having deadly on weapons? If so I like it. I know you said 1/2 the people say they want deadly on a weapon, but honestly, I have never met one and if I did I might take a minute and explain why it is a terrible idea. Deadly needs to be on items - never on a weapon.

Thanks for your time.

He did go back and add deadly to random gloves and goggles with that things are fine. (related to deadly item effect only)

I agree that having deadly on weapons is not the ideal gear choice as there are other unique damage increasing effects that can only be found on weapons and not other pieces of gear but if thats the way some one wants to gear for some reason so be it imo.

Robai
12-11-2015, 01:44 PM
-Clarification - I've seen a lot of mention of players thinking that only one level of an effect will drop at Minimum level. Most effects come in a range of power for any given minimum level. Example - a min level 20 item could come with Strength +7, +8, or +9.

This is a BAD change!
+9 Str at lvl 20? Why more power creep? WHY?

If you do this change then you'll have to change really many named items as well (including old epic items, MotU items, GH items, etc. etc. ETC.), which is A LOT of work for Devs (also more power creep).

The proper balance is this:
- named/raid items should ALWAYS be better than random loot (especially vertically)

It means that if you change random loot then you'll have to do a lot of work for changing named items as well.

For example, are you willing to change this item too?
http://ddowiki.com/images/Guardian%27s_Ring_%28Level_27%29.png

ArekDorun
12-11-2015, 01:58 PM
While I agree that a variance in the ML of dropped random loot might be useful, I think it would be better to have the loot Power Range be boosted by loot boosts instead of them boosting the loot level/ML.

Current real example using the new system: If you're in a guild, you cannot use any random loot that drops for you for 2 levels after it drops, unless the guild foregoes the guild loot boost.

Now, if loot boosts were updated so that instead of adding +1 ML to the loot roll per point of Loot Boost they instead added +1% per point of loot boost to the "quality roll", it would be much better. This caps out at a max of +7% (+1 guild, +2 Jewel, +1 Map, +1 Dragonmark, +2 Bonus Weekend), with +5% being more common, assuming everything stacks. This should, if possible, not influence the "Lucky Roll", either by having Lucky/Super Lucky loot require a "natural" roll to get, or by having those chances be rolled separately from the overall quality level (and only if top quality is selected).

I hope that makes sense. :)

--ArekDorun

RistoffDervish
12-11-2015, 01:59 PM
He did go back and add deadly to random gloves and goggles with that things are fine. (related to deadly item effect only)

I agree that having deadly on weapons is not the ideal gear choice as there are other unique damage increasing effects that can only be found on weapons and not other pieces of gear but if thats the way some one wants to gear for some reason so be it imo.

Just gloves and goggles? I liked when deadly dropped on rings, necklaces, helms, etc. I have a whole collection at various levels for different TR gear combos.

Still it is better than just weapons. The vendor is going to be sick of buying everyone's deadly weapons.

Qhualor
12-11-2015, 02:48 PM
This is a BAD change!
+9 Str at lvl 20? Why more power creep? WHY?

If you do this change then you'll have to change really many named items as well (including old epic items, MotU items, GH items, etc. etc. ETC.), which is A LOT of work for Devs (also more power creep).

The proper balance is this:
- named/raid items should ALWAYS be better than random loot (especially vertically)

It means that if you change random loot then you'll have to do a lot of work for changing named items as well.

For example, are you willing to change this item too?
http://ddowiki.com/images/Guardian%27s_Ring_%28Level_27%29.png

This is a good example. All we have to do is go back to when Wheloon was released and why it was a popular pack to farm for loot. Because of that is why I commented on those Portable Hole quest chain loot that I wouldn't bother with +5 stat items when I can equip +6 stat items at lower ML, some named and some random Masterful Craftsman loot, during first proposal phase. I think the devs need to put more thought into these before named loot gets trumped by random loot.

Robai
12-11-2015, 03:46 PM
Min level 10 = +0.5W
Min Level 20 = +1.0W
Min Level 24 = +2.0W
Min Level 28 = +3.0W


Just realized that +3[W] means than all random weapons will be 4[W] at lvl 28, which is too high for a random loot (it should be 3[W] instead, currently we have 2[W] even at lvl 28, which is a bit too low).
So, the table should be this (this is a bonus table):

Min level 10 = +0.5W
Min Level 20 = +1.0W
Min Level 24 = +1.5W
Min Level 28 = +2.0W

slarden
12-11-2015, 07:31 PM
There is a serious lack of high level weapons in the game to use against oozes and rust monsters for melees.

Please allow everbright to drop on high level weapons. Currently they only seem to drop on heroic weapons.

slarden
12-11-2015, 07:34 PM
Yes the stats are a bit higher than named weapons, but at the same time named items are usually better overall so now we have the choice of random loot for higher stats or named items for more stuff overall.

From what I can tell it's +1 main stat and +2 insightful vs. now. It's far from a game-breaking change compared to things that really increased power like armor up, mrr, melee power, etc.

Systern
12-11-2015, 07:53 PM
On the stream today, it was said that Skills at level 20 will be "roughly twice what they are now".

A) I'm so glad that I spent the better part of a year to craft http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Kundarak_Delving_Goggles (/s </sarcasm>)

B) Unless you're planning on going back and readjusting all the search/disarm DCs in heroic content, TRing just got even more trivial.

C) Level your character and invest 23 ranks into a skill, only to wear a +30 or +40 item at level 20? What does character generation mean anymore? It doesn't matter how you build your character. It doesn't matter what choices you make. You're just a paper doll for all the gear to hang on.



For the record: I HATE this absurd level of powercreep. Everything I've gotten in the past 5 years is now invalid.

UurlockYgmeov
12-11-2015, 07:53 PM
Running +1 guild bonus, +1 jewel, and +2 weekend bonus (if is in effect on Lamannia - don't know but could be).

Some from elite run of Haverdasher
Rest from solo runs of Raiding the Giants vault (lv19 quest)

special metals are showing up; only one or two slots that I saw. Some interesting combinations and stuff in general. the Draining on armor is new and I like. HAmp showed up.

silver kama - shows ORC bane

UMD needs to be halved if not cut in 1/3 or 1/4.

http://i.imgur.com/P3UPvzF.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/limPQWi.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/Vbrc4Uc.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/mBobGjW.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/RKBb7vo.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/PDFwc2h.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/BwNbIrw.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ZD2UQi2.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/xfZaZQN.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/uePV8rW.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/YmDBuQ5.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/gdPNEWw.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/iMVQJUo.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ofb27Rh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/xdcP5F9.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/IfBYcCB.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/0LWfxAE.jpg

eris2323
12-11-2015, 07:57 PM
Running +1 guild bonus, +1 jewel, and +2 weekend bonus (if is in effect on Lamannia - don't know but could be).


THANK YOU so much for putting up some examples for those of us who can't get online Lam.

Wow, +17 UMD on that one item... crazy....

UurlockYgmeov
12-11-2015, 08:03 PM
THANK YOU so much for putting up some examples for those of us who can't get online Lam.

Wow, +17 UMD on that one item... crazy....

really thought more would do it. I would do more, but pressed for time and my mouse wants to go on permanent vacation (it will - after my 12 gauge is done with it mahahahahaawa!)

I thought the stuff would be much more overpowered, but the randomness of it means less that 5% will be uber (my best estimate) where all the effects line up....

Qhualor
12-11-2015, 08:16 PM
UMD needs to be halved if not cut in 1/3 or 1/4.

totally agree. im seeing some of this stuff that borderlines powercreep or better and will rival certain named loot. on the flip side, this random loot is going to make gearing out a character more interesting.

hp1055cm
12-11-2015, 08:16 PM
UMD needs to be halved if not cut in 1/3 or 1/4.

http://i.imgur.com/YmDBuQ5.jpg


Wow, +17 UMD on that one item... crazy....

I really hope the developers understand how much this will affect current game play and character development (in a bad way). :(

I'm all for spiffing up random loot but from what I am hearing it is going to be a huge power creep; which is sad because that isn't what is needed.
All the criticism I have read about random loot over the past few years was that certain effects were removed, some effects weren't available and the tendency to make too many useless combination items where one effect at full ML level would make it more desirable.

Elfishski
12-11-2015, 08:49 PM
(item pictures)



My thoughts on these:

Assassinate Bonuses - nice as a possible option on loot, BUT keep it in line with existing effects from special items, e.g. make this a much higher ML effect. +1 at level 10, +2 at level 20, +3 at level 25, +4 at level 30 or so.

UMD - remove this entirely, or scale it way back, as devs have often noted and as regards tomes etc, UMD is much different to other skills in value...

Numbers given as +x when it should be x% - examples include tendon slice, healing lore, melee alacrity: this is really confusing as to what they actually do

Items that don't have ant effect in the name - "+5 Dagger" - good luck searching for this. Please give everything a useful name relating to what it does.

Weapon's Orc Specific Damage Bonus: Cool! I like this kind of thing, if you're a hoarder who likes a golf bag of weapons you can enjoy these things especially when you get that really specific combination. If not then you can sell them as junk and appreciate other things more.

Insightful Spell Power Bonuses: Not bad as an idea, but they really end up pigeonholing characters into one specific element more and more, with less space for other options, and more power on that one element (if you get lucky and find the right random combination) - so I'm not in favor of them, in the end.

The numbers on bonuses to spell power etc: I haven't seen enough items, but are these just random within a given range? If so, GOOD. Makes it more fun and more rare to get that perfect item at the top of the range.

Insightful stat bonuses: Pointless power creep and invalidation of old loot adding these so readily to levels where they weren't accessible before (except on heroic greensteel which required giving up a precious hand slot), tone it back to where stat bonuses are already available.

Stuff like Tendon Slice on equipment in general: nice, more variety.

Bonuses that don't specify what they do: "Healing amplification: amplifies incoming healing" isn't exactly helpful: how much??, same applies to shield spikes

gwonbush
12-11-2015, 09:12 PM
Something I found: a weapon with a good effect (does extra good damage) does not break DR/good.

Elfishski
12-11-2015, 09:14 PM
Ran Irestone Inlet a couple of times to see what random loot is dropping at that level, my thoughts in brackets, sorry for lack of pretty pictures:

ML3
"+2 Paralyzing Light Hammer" - Paralyzing: DC17 will save every hit, +2 enhancement bonus, and Assassinate bonus +1 to DC [Put this on a dagger and at level 3??? WOW, assassinate should be available much later, and while paralyzing should be available at levels where it is relevant [e.g. not just epics like current loot tables, pretty much], at level 3 it's way earlier than the currently available one (lv11 or something?), so this is too much power creep, too readily available, unless this was a one in a million or more good luck to get either of these things at level and something to deeply treasure if you ever got them together]

ML4
+2 medium armor, +2 enhancement bonus to combat mastery, +12 lightning lore

ML5
+2 buckler, +56 enhancement bonus to force spell power, +6 enhancement bonus to move silently
+2 tower shield, +9 enhancement bonus to spell resistance, Deception 1
"+2 Evasive Shortbow": +2 enhancement bonus, "Parrying: +1 Insight Bonus to AC and +2 Insight bonus to Saves" [Hardly broken on a shortbow, but on other items, these new double-old-value insight bonuses to saves that seem from other posts to scale up to huge values in epics are un-needed power creep invalidating old items and old quests that become too easy, ditch them!], Fire Lore +11 [Should be +11%]
"+2 Quarterstaff": Masterful, +23 Insight bonus to light spell power, 2d6 electrical damage [elemental damage bonuses are higher than old ones, and less interesting at the same time because of flat damage rather than crit based, but they were weak effects then, so... maybe okay?]

ML6
+3 Heavy Armor, 12% enhancement bonus to Electric Absorb, +10 enhancement to resist acid
Greataxe, reconstruction and insightful glaciation
"Alluring Ring of Poison Resistance": +3 enhancement to charisma, +9 enhancement to resist poison [should clarify to saves]

ML7
Docent, electric absorb and acid resist
Bastard Sword: +61 glaciation, +3 enhancement, +24 insightful devotion
"Gloves", +1 equipment bonus to penetrate spell resistance, +2 penalty bonus to the chance of hamstringing a target [Should be +2%]
"Invigorating Hat": +57 enhancement bonus to spellpoints, "Spell Focus Mastery: Bonus to DC of all spells." [How much?]
"Focused Helm of Search": +0 enhancement bonus to concentration [Thanks.], +8 enhancement bonus to search, "Poison Resistance: +8 Enhancement bonus to Resist Poison" [TO SAVES, PRESUMABLY, CLARIFY?]

and as a bonus
ML1
Intelligence +1 tome, hooray!

eris2323
12-11-2015, 09:19 PM
Ran Irestone Inlet a couple of times to see what random loot is dropping at that level, my thoughts in brackets, sorry for lack of pretty pictures:

ML3
"+2 Paralyzing Light Hammer" - Paralyzing: DC17 will save every hit, +2 enhancement bonus, and Assassinate bonus +1 to DC [Put this on a dagger and at level 3??? WOW, assassinate should be available much later, and while paralyzing should be available at levels where it is relevant [e.g. not just epics like current loot tables, pretty much], at level 3 it's way earlier than the currently available one (lv11 or something?), so this is too much power creep, too readily available, unless this was a one in a million or more good luck to get either of these things at level and something to deeply treasure if you ever got them together]



Paralysis weapons.... at level 3....

The world I grewed up in is dead....

Propane
12-11-2015, 09:27 PM
Assassinate Bonuses - nice as a possible option on loot, BUT keep it in line with existing effects from special items, e.g. make this a much higher ML effect. +1 at level 10, +2 at level 20, +3 at level 25, +4 at level 30 or so.

UMD - remove this entirely, or scale it way back, as devs have often noted and as regards tomes etc, UMD is much different to other skills in value...



Totally agree!

A few things should have a min level before they appear - that would prevent game breaking luck rolls...


From what I see - I would suggest toning down the loot system 4-6 level at launch.
Give it a week or two and see how things turn out - then tune it up slowly to the "correct" level.

Starting with a new system like this coming out "hot" could damage the game-

Back to my thoughts on bacon...

I could give you plate with 7 pieces and then take two away...
I could give you plate with 3 pieces and then give you two more.

Both ways you have 5 pieces, one way you are happy, the other way, no so much...

Elfishski
12-11-2015, 09:40 PM
Devs: could there be a random chest generator so we could look at loot at different levels more easily without having to repeatedly run whatever quests?

Failing that, anyone have a suggestion for a high level quest or two with easily accessible random loot chests?

eris2323
12-11-2015, 09:43 PM
Outbreak, Overgrowth, umm the miller one with the drow priestess, house of rusted blades... all high level that can be completed within minutes and will drop a chest...

IronClan
12-11-2015, 10:26 PM
"+5 Dagger"

No prefix or suffix name means we will need to mouse over EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF RANDOM LOOT

[edit]Or did I miss it and names for the loot are still in progress?

Elfishski
12-11-2015, 10:35 PM
More items:

ML19:
"+6 Blazing Mountain Breastplate": Cold Absorption 26%, +6 enhancement, Assassinate +4 [see other comments re assassinate...]
"+6 Impact Heavy Spiritcraft Shield": Acid Absorption: 23%, Impact I [impact is a good addition to random shields]

ML20:
"Goggles": Necromancy Focus +4 Equipment bonus to DC, Insightful Illusion Focus: +1 Insight bonus to DC

ML21:
+6 impact quarterstaff, +109 sonic spell power, Impact I

ML23:
"Agile Bracers": Reflex saves +8 [I like seeing some slightly higher individual saves available, even if MOST of the time they aren't ideal - good addition to loot tables], Forticication +99 [Again, should be 99% like old fort items]
"Feather Falling Ring": +17 Equipment Bonus to Cold Spells chance to Critical Hit [should be +17%], Feather Falling [A bit garbage at this level, though it's nice to see it still be available unlike current loot tables, maybe at high levels feather falling (and underwater action) could come with extra skill bonus or something??]
"Ricocheting Bracers" [name missing "of fortification", but overall I want to note that I love seeing this extra variety in item names, even if it makes them harder to find in AH, being able to search by effect in AH would solve that problem though...], Protection +8 deflection bonus, Fortification +107 [should be +107%] [seems about right - a bit weak but situationally useful to fill a temporary gap while leveling. Add the right "lucky" effect onto this and it would be really good, so this is about right for power, I'd say]


In end reward list for Impossible Demands:
ML0:
"Scepter": no ML, no bonuses, [this shouldn't be appearing!] (appeared twice)

ML21:
"+6 Keen Heavy Crossbow": 4d6 good damage [Does NOT add good to item damage types, probably should do], Keen I

ML22:
"+8 Alkaline Robe of Ice Guard": 27% acid absorption, AC +8, Ice Guard 4d6
"+8 Hardy Robe of Thorn Guard": Constitution +10 [again, STAT BONUSES DON'T NEED POWER CREEP, USE EXISTING CURVE, EVERYTHING IN GAME CURRENTLY IS BALANCED AROUND THAT!], AC+8, Thorn Guard 4d6


ML23:
"+8 Robe of Fire Guard": Combat Mastery +7 enhancement bonus [okay, all enhancement bonuses in one place, a bit lower than possible individual bonuses, seems about right], AC+8, Fire Guard 4d6
"+6 Heavy Crossbow": 5d6 poion damage, +6 enhancement, +5 assassinate [again, TOO MUCH, old items irrelevant, difficulty of assassins to meet DCs in newest endgame content is true, but there is definitely no problem at earlier levels! Also, regardless of power creep, these bonuses are happening way too often, this should at least be rare, not on every 5th item. Assassinate could be the new Ghostbane.]
"Favorable Bracers of Move Silently": +16 Insight Bonus to Resist Negative [currently unavailable, not too OP seeing as you have to give up something for it, interesting option to slot], Move Silently +16

Elfishski
12-11-2015, 11:16 PM
And from Mask of Deception for something higher level:

ML28:
"+10 Greatsword": 4[W] damage, 5d6 electric damage, +10 enhancement, Tendon Slice +8

ML30:
"+12 Planeforged Docent": +10 Enhancement Bonus for Combat Mastery, +12 Enhancement Bonus, and unspecified Healing Amplification [not ideal, but get lucky with repair amp and we're seriously talking]

End reward options:
ML29:
"+11 Blacing Planeforged Half Plate": Cold Absorption 32%, +11 enhancement, "Damage: +9 Competence bonus to Weapon Damage." [Deadly shouldn't ever have been added, but it's here now. SO let's keep calling it "deadly" at least, "damage" is even more bland and unappealing, value is fine at level, presumably you get get a +10 bonus, combat mastery or something else useful, and a third lucky effect and just possibly want to fit it into some specific gear layout, so it seems about right even if nobody would use this specific item]


ML30:
"Deathblock Belt of Jump": Deathblock [same with other lower level effects, scale it up with something for higher levels?], Jump +19 [well, we can keep it for a swap item I guess? :p]
"+12 Damping Planeforged Half Plate": Sonic Absorption 32%, Damage +9
"+12 Planeforged Half Plate of Light Resistance": Fortification +141, +12 enhancement, Light Resistance +52 enhancement bonus [can't get it currently, would be useful for some!], Insightful Acid Resistance +23 insight bonus [First "lucky" item I've seen, different border color would be great. Not the perfect winning combination on this item, but there's potential - not for it to be better than named items, but for a lucky random item to at least fit into an end game setup]

Robai
12-11-2015, 11:19 PM
I can't believe Devs are actually doing this.

1) Why random loot overhaul?
2) Why spend Dev time on something that's not broken, like random loot? (Hint: work on increasing BtC bank space/sortable TR Cache instead)
3) Ok, ML24+ random weapons could use some small buff like it was mentioned in #56 (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/468666-Randomized-Loot-Look-Two?p=5739003&viewfull=1#post5739003), but that's it.
4) If you really really REALLY want to buff random loot then do it horizontally, not vertically (the MAX bonus should always stay on named/raid items only)
5) Why random loot should be so much more powerful than named/raid items?
6) Power creep is not good for the game, but sometimes it's a price to pay since items in new content should be useful, but now you are increasing powercreep just like that, I mean on RANDOM loot, seriously? Not to mention that this will be a huge increase.
7) A proper loot balance is when raid/named items are better than random loot. If you buff random loot then you have to buff also all the named/raid items, which means A LOT of work for Devs. Then what's the point in this?

Guys, this is crazy!
U29 will be much worse than Ghostbane update (or any update).

eris2323
12-11-2015, 11:22 PM
I can't believe Devs are actually doing this.

1) Why random loot overhaul?
2) Why spend Dev time on something that's not broken, like random loot? (Hint: work on increasing BtC bank space/sortable TR Cache instead)
3) Ok, ML24+ random weapons could use some small buff like it was mentioned in #56 (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/468666-Randomized-Loot-Look-Two?p=5739003&viewfull=1#post5739003), but that's it.
4) If you really really REALLY want to buff random loot then do it horizontally, not vertically (the MAX bonus should always stay on named/raid items only)
5) Why random loot should be so much more powerful than named/raid items?
6) Power creep is not good for the game, but sometimes it's a price to pay since items in new content should be useful, but now you are increasing powercreep just like that, I mean on RANDOM loot, seriously? Not to mention that this will be a huge increase.
7) A proper loot balance is when raid/named items are better than random loot. If you buff random loot then you have to buff also all the named/raid items, which means A LOT of work for Devs. Then what's the point in this?

Guys, this is crazy!
U29 will be much worse than Ghostbane update (or any update).

Well, #1 is easy. Because we need it. Random Loot is garbage nowadays. They broke the tables long ago.

I'm all in for a new loot system, just has to be carefully managed. It actually makes me want to TR yet again, so I can experience the new loot from level 1.

Elfishski
12-11-2015, 11:41 PM
Well, #1 is easy. Because we need it. Random Loot is garbage nowadays. They broke the tables long ago.

I'm all in for a new loot system, just has to be carefully managed. It actually makes me want to TR yet again, so I can experience the new loot from level 1.

I agree that random loot is garbage nowadays, and does need to be spruced up (especially Armors of Boredom), however, they can be improved in ways more conducive to fun rather than power creep.

Current proposal in random loot tables: too much vertical progression, trying to make random loot look more interesting by just putting bigger numbers on it. Yes, this makes us want to use it, but it invalidates everything that's old, and makes content even easier.

Better proposal: Keep the existing stat progression, and possible bonuses to saves, basic spellpower, and so on from old loot tables, keep the new possibility of having that third effect at level on lucky items for the odd exciting pull or quest reward (or even a vanishingly small chance of 4th effect), and add back in old cool compounded prefixes/affixes and probably some new ones with multiple skills or other affects at VERY LOW INDIVIDUAL PROBABILITY, so there's the chance for that 1 in a trillion item with three effects, all of which are compounds, and all of which work together, which would be a bit better than raid loot, and none of which are overpowered individually at level (...like the level 1 paralyzing weapons in current proposal...). But it has to be luckier than winning the lottery to get that item for the system to work.

With this idea, your old items aren't complete garbage because there's just a higher bonus available, but you can still get random loot that's really worth using.

Way to break everything forever: leave the new higher stats, add compounds back in, and put the probablilities at 1/5 like ghostbane, making all old loot completely irrelevant, while still not having any quests that are a challenge in heroic for multiple past life characters.

eris2323
12-11-2015, 11:50 PM
I'm a little scared of things like paralysis weapons so early, and yeah, +17 UMD seems a bit powerful.... so I agree that we need some changes - and a lot of this will invalidate old loot.. but that's the nature of the beast we play....

I really do look forward to the new loot tables, and HOPEFULLY new crafting soon too...

Robai
12-12-2015, 12:00 AM
Well, #1 is easy. Because we need it. Random Loot is garbage nowadays.

If you remember previous random loot overhaul:
- Deadly has made useless items like Dream Visor (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Dream_Visor)
- Accuracy random items have made completely useless crafted attack bonus items in cannith crafting (compare: +6 attack ML 11 random item vs an expensive crafted +4 attack ML15 item in cannith crafting, which also requires craft lvls)
- spell crit chance got a big buff on random items, on top of that some named items got nerfed by 3% (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/442601-Any-ETA-on-fixing-Spell-Lore?p=5340362#post5340362) for some reason and they weren't fixed later.
- etc.


They broke the tables long ago.
Yes and now they will SERIOUSLY brake it!

Elfishski
12-12-2015, 12:01 AM
I'm a little scared of things like paralysis weapons so early, and yeah, +17 UMD seems a bit powerful.... so I agree that we need some changes - and a lot of this will invalidate old loot.. but that's the nature of the beast we play....

I really do look forward to the new loot tables, and HOPEFULLY new crafting soon too...

Yes, of course some older loot will be irrelevant, and if there's a single random item that any veteran player would choose to slot ever (other than a temp thing for a level or two while leveling because they can't be bothered searching their bank for the better thing) then we've already seen some kind of power creep. But I think there's a lot of scope for that to happen horizontally where items can have more concurrent effects that are level appropriate, rather than effectively bumping the old loot tables down 5 or 10 levels with a few new things thrown in.

If they can adjust it to be more interesting with less vertical power creep and more horizontal, then I'm definitely looking forward to both new random loot and new crafting too.

janave
12-12-2015, 12:45 AM
+17 to UMD is a bit much, probably needs its own separate skill scaling :)

Altho, to be honest the real problem with UMD is the endless 100s stacks of scrolls from vendors readily available.

Robai
12-12-2015, 01:21 AM
+17 to UMD is a bit much, probably needs its own separate skill scaling :)

Just a bit? :)

http://i.imgur.com/YmDBuQ5.jpg

Currently on live the best UMD bonuses on items are:
Competence bonus: +7 on Strange Tidings (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Strange_Tidings), ML28
Enhancement bonus: +4 on Treasure Hunter's Spyglass (http://ddowiki.com/page/Treasure_Hunter%27s_Spyglass), ML24 (Tier3)

So, yeah, +17 UMD (Enhancement bonus) at lvl 19 is just a bit too much :)

janave
12-12-2015, 04:32 AM
If we can have the naming pattern seen on the umd goggles in this thread, that alone would worth the loot pass O.o

So much better than "+5 stat of +6 stat goggles".

I think UMD as an extra or lucky effect would be more balanced +1-6, maybe with an even minor-er chance for an insightful 1-3.

Saekee
12-12-2015, 06:50 AM
Player 1: Hey, why is your rogue wearing pajamas?
Player 2: They are giving me +8 to assassinate! Too good to pass up at level 18. I can also swap instantly for my trapping robes which give +25 to disable.
Player 1: wow! But I thought knife spec did not work on sickles?
Player 2: This sickle makes me permanently hasted and has improved
paralyzing. I haven't drunk a haste pot since level 11!

Qhualor
12-12-2015, 07:03 AM
I just noticed on that draining buckler you get +2 temp spell points on a vorpal and on that feeding armor you get +5 temp hit points on a vorpal. that really should be more like +20 temp sp and hp.

Silverleafeon
12-12-2015, 08:33 PM
Pulled some items, and some were actually interesting, compared to live where I just vendor most all of it.

silinteresting
12-12-2015, 10:06 PM
Just a bit? :)

http://i.imgur.com/YmDBuQ5.jpg

Currently on live the best UMD bonuses on items are:
Competence bonus: +7 on Strange Tidings (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Strange_Tidings), ML28
Enhancement bonus: +4 on Treasure Hunter's Spyglass (http://ddowiki.com/page/Treasure_Hunter%27s_Spyglass), ML24 (Tier3)

So, yeah, +17 UMD (Enhancement bonus) at lvl 19 is just a bit too much :)

so who is gonna use them at level 19? there not that good.
the only people who i can see wearing these are new characters
who need the umd to cast heal scrolls.

your friend sil :)

sjbb87
12-13-2015, 12:49 AM
so who is gonna use them at level 19? there not that good.
the only people who i can see wearing these are new characters
who need the umd to cast heal scrolls.

your friend sil :)

The problem here is:
rogue
bard
lost one nice point...
now a barbarian with 1 umd can cast raise dead

DrawingGuy
12-13-2015, 01:45 AM
so who is gonna use them at level 19? there not that good.
the only people who i can see wearing these are new characters
who need the umd to cast heal scrolls.

your friend sil :)

It's called swap gear. UMD can be used for Resurrect, Greater Restoration, True Seeing, Teleport, DDoor, Tenser, wands for special mechanics like Inferno in Necro 4, etc. I have built all of my characters to use UMD - it's a very important skill Though the fact that they made it a special skill purposely limiting items, and charging an arm and a leg for specialized UMD tomes. I donated for those, and now we get these... what's the point if someone can dump CHA, dump UMD (beyond the 1 pt to unlock it), buy/earn no tomes... and get everything handed to them with quick item swap? UMD will now be a given rather than an earn.

Though that's only one stat of the problem. They are completely invalidating 95% of the game with this proposed random loot and GS scaling. Look, I understand that power creep is normal and to be expected with a level cap increase... but this?!

My suggestions:
- For standard stats on Heroic items, keep the +6/8 stat cap. Heroics don't need a stat climb to trivialize them any more or make all possible named gear in Heroic gear 100% worthless (beyond clickies).
- For Epic/Legendary stats, they add +1 for every two item levels off base 6. Level 20 can be +7, 22 with +8, 24 +9, 26 +10, 28 +11, 30 +12.
- For Insightful, +1 to level 10, +2 to level 20, +3 to level 30. Leave the +4 for raid loot.

I dunno... just sitting here and seeing the entire game invalidated in favor of random loot, GS gear (which my Monk won't even get wraps for), is just... beyond lame. Why shrink the game? Tame the vertical scaling. Or if the scaling is deemed as a good thing, go back and update each and every named item in the entire game. Don't cost yourself years of content to encourage the play of a couple new quests.

noinfo
12-13-2015, 02:28 AM
It's called swap gear. UMD can be used for Resurrect, Greater Restoration, True Seeing, Teleport, DDoor, Tenser, wands for special mechanics like Inferno in Necro 4, etc. I have built all of my characters to use UMD - it's a very important skill Though the fact that they made it a special skill purposely limiting items, and charging an arm and a leg for specialized UMD tomes. I donated for those, and now we get these... what's the point if someone can dump CHA, dump UMD (beyond the 1 pt to unlock it), buy/earn no tomes... and get everything handed to them with quick item swap? UMD will now be a given rather than an earn.

Though that's only one stat of the problem. They are completely invalidating 95% of the game with this proposed random loot and GS scaling. Look, I understand that power creep is normal and to be expected with a level cap increase... but this?!

My suggestions:
- For standard stats on Heroic items, keep the +6/8 stat cap. Heroics don't need a stat climb to trivialize them any more or make all possible named gear in Heroic gear 100% worthless (beyond clickies).
- For Epic/Legendary stats, they add +1 for every two item levels off base 6. Level 20 can be +7, 22 with +8, 24 +9, 26 +10, 28 +11, 30 +12.
- For Insightful, +1 to level 10, +2 to level 20, +3 to level 30. Leave the +4 for raid loot.

I dunno... just sitting here and seeing the entire game invalidated in favor of random loot, GS gear (which my Monk won't even get wraps for), is just... beyond lame. Why shrink the game? Tame the vertical scaling. Or if the scaling is deemed as a good thing, go back and update each and every named item in the entire game. Don't cost yourself years of content to encourage the play of a couple new quests.

+12 stat items and +3 insight is enough.

Lower mobs saves.

Unless every raid is going to have a loot pass to bring it up in line with it?

RobbinB
12-13-2015, 02:31 AM
I would have a care here; given enough time, there will be a lot of this out there ... you're just delaying, not mitigating.

If the "delay" you speak of is 3 months before market is absolutely saturated with better items than the probabilities of the better items were simply set to high. If you set the probabilities right (ie. low enough) then yes, given ten years there will be oodles of ML 20 +9 str items. I don't see that as a problem due to the "in 10 years" part..

Fixed ML system simply doesn't work even with 3 slots instead of 2. If we keep the ML 20 at stat +6 (ie. low) and similar for other effects, than no item is going to be worth anything compared to named, even if u put 4 or 5 slots on it. If you increase that stat to +8 or +9 then we have ridiculous stat power creep due to the 3 slots (or even with 2).

Rare chance at better effects which are competitive or even better than similar level named items are what is needed but extreme care must be taken in the setting of the probabilities for the better effects.

Wanesa
12-13-2015, 03:36 AM
Please do not remove cursed items. A cursed item is only a way how to get a craftable blank with two gem slots, which makes the item valuable beyond the level 20. I can combine up to 4 effects on a ring. :)

My favorite is Mobile ring of Persuation with blue Natural Armor and some yellow (immunity to fear for example) or colorless effect (stat bonus)

UMD +17 is insane.

dunklezhan
12-13-2015, 05:13 AM
http://i.imgur.com/0LWfxAE.jpg

Spell Resistance is now a bonus vs saves against spells? What? What happened to, you know, spell resistance?

Zzevel
12-13-2015, 01:27 PM
Just a bit? :)

Currently on live the best UMD bonuses on items are:
Competence bonus: +7 on Strange Tidings (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Strange_Tidings), ML28
Enhancement bonus: +4 on Treasure Hunter's Spyglass (http://ddowiki.com/page/Treasure_Hunter%27s_Spyglass), ML24 (Tier3)

So, yeah, +17 UMD (Enhancement bonus) at lvl 19 is just a bit too much :)

1.) this is a work in progress, not all levels are set (yest the UMD and the Paralyzing at those levels is questionable, but give them a chance to make adjustments before you **** your pants on the whole overhaul process)
2.) this is clearly a small selection of the WILDEST items people have found. I am sure there are alot of other things in chest that are not as interesting that were not posted.
3.) There needs to be a shuffle up of effects on items ans the current random loot is ****, new things keep the game fresh
4.) +Stat items should always have been a more standardize progression, seeing a +8 at level 17 sounds about right (you can already get a couple +8 from named loot at 16-20)
5.) Old named items need to have a pass done on them as well, this should be our next push
6.) The insightful bonuses should be looked at and made +1 - +6, an available +1 every 5 levels sounds more realistic

That's why they preview things, to work out the kinks, be a part of the solution by making suggestions. People making statements that 1 (ONE!) named item from 2006 is now invalid because of a new affect dosent do anything, its an old item, it should probably be updated (see #5).

Also REMEMBER that you still have to FIND everything you want THEN fit everything into your eq scheme. its not that you can wear 67 items to get every big bonus you see.

And KEEP CURSED ITEMS in the game! I love that a cursed item is cheap vs ones that just has a -2 level to it.

Robai
12-13-2015, 06:56 PM
I had some thoughts about Loot Design for a long time and finally posted a thread here:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/468780-Loot-Design

InsanityIsYourFriend
12-13-2015, 10:37 PM
Other things of note:

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.
I personally would like cursed items to come back, and do like this change to them (stacking that is). Although this will make some items a tad worse.
-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.
Yes please, perhaps not the whole description, just some way to know if an item is master craft, wondrous craft, cursed, or something else.
-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.
I am not completely understanding this, may need to rephrase this.
-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.
I personally can argue both ways on this. On one side many players are running a quest 2 levels under them (lets say base 8) on elite (level 10 quest) when they are that at a level (level 10). But others do not do this. This makes it so that people that run quests at higher levels than character level are more likely to get loot they can use, but that people running quests at the correct level (first example) may be getting items that are under powered. If there is a way to make it more likely to get masterful craftsmanship from running a quest above your level then that would be awesome, but otherwise I do not know which is better.
I am both looking forward and not looking forward to the loot pass at this point. On one hand the loot will be interesting fresh and new! On the other hand I may not be able to get an item I could get today tomorrow, and that will kind of suck.

Kambuk
12-13-2015, 11:09 PM
Implement Bonuses seem to be MIA
Also held items should really be caster effects or physical combat effects not a mixture of both.

Kambuk

Certon
12-14-2015, 02:37 PM
I like what you're doing. Keep it up.

Definitely should keep cursed items, and as previous posters have mentioned, make it polarizing.

Example: Vorpal Curse

This curse is both beneficial and detrimental. On vorpal, an opponent is killed unless it has more than 1000 hp, in which case it takes 100 damage. Also on a successful vorpal, the wielder of the weapon gains 'vorpal curse' for one minute. Vorpal curse: rolls of natural 20 do not trigger vorpal.

Example of a very low level curse ability -- Strength of the Unenlightened

Strength of the Unenlightened: (+6 Enhancement to STR) or (+3 Curse Bonus to STR) and your total bonus to STR from all items is subtracted from INT, but INT cannot be lowered below 1 through this effect.

--

Note that these curses would not lower the level of the item as they have in the past. Instead, they'd be available on lower level items than the positive effects they mimic.

Kantia
12-14-2015, 09:55 PM
What is going on with the hardness of all the materials in those screenshots?

I'm used to hardness values in line with this (from ddowiki):

Any basic non-enchanted metal weapon will have these hardness ratings:

Steel: 10
Cold Iron: 10
Adamantine: 20
Byeshk: 17
Silver: 8
Any basic non-enchanted wooden weapon will these hardness ratings:

Wood: 5
Darkwood: 6
Densewood: 8

Instead, we have hardness values of 170-220!

Is that mechanic also being revised and rewritted from scratch? Or is this an oversight? or an intentional change just for Lama so we don't break things? or is the idea of breaking items just going out the window?

UurlockYgmeov
12-14-2015, 10:50 PM
What is going on with the hardness of all the materials in those screenshots?

I'm used to hardness values in line with this (from ddowiki):


Instead, we have hardness values of 170-220!

Is that mechanic also being revised and rewritted from scratch? Or is this an oversight? or an intentional change just for Lama so we don't break things? or is the idea of breaking items just going out the window?

Nice catch! Approve of this change!

knightgf
12-15-2015, 12:44 AM
This is too funny in a bad way. If there's one question I have to ask the developers regarding the loot change, it's this:

"WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION FROM ON CHANGING THE LOOT TO THESE VALUES!?"

Something is totally wrong with how Turbine is gathering information. Either their system on gathering data is bugged, or someone is feeding them false information on purpose. Even if it is neither of these issues, it's still a problem.

Rautis
12-15-2015, 03:56 AM
Those hardness values are very strange. They are 1 or 2 orders of magnitude too high when compared to current values.


I myself would like to have a random loot system where stars aligned item pulls are very desirable for almost everyone but also so rare that you really feel special when getting one. Like pulling one like once every 30 hours of typical play and then it's probably of a type that would better suit some other character. But I also have to agree when people point out that this pass in its current form is huge powercreep in certain stats.

I also think that a curse system with stronger rewards and negatives and maybe some innovation could be really fun. Like weapon with extra +[W]s but it drains HP or SP once per second when it is used. Or item that grants freedom of movement but negates all runspeed bonuses so you only (and most of the time) move at normal character speed. Weapons with effects like leveldrain that have a chance to proc on you when you get hit. Caster item with substantial boost but high chance to fatigue you on spell casts. Also like -4 to stat to gain like +2 to main stat of item might be okish. Could have different strenghts like -6 for +3 and -8 for +4. Not sure if 2:1 ratio is right or if it should be more like 3:1. Getting a negative to a stat you dont need much isn't very punishing. This could also be preset so that certain boost gives certain negative that still matters but is worth it for some. Like say int boost gives str negative(you still need it for carrying) and str boost gives dex negative(reflex saves).

LightBear
12-15-2015, 06:27 AM
Looks like the numbers for hardness, durability, value? (+X in the top right corner) and ML are off what is expected.

Also the wording for some "newly" introduced affixes (Like Spell Resistance) do not follow the pattern of Enhancement, Insightful, Quality and/or Exceptional but introduce their own bonustype.

gwonbush
12-15-2015, 07:03 AM
Yeah, the hardness values seem to be adding 10 per min level instead of 1 per.

IronClan
12-15-2015, 07:16 AM
now a barbarian with 1 umd can cast raise dead

I already do that without a +17 UMD item.

However nitpicks aside yes, the Dev's who are doing this REALLY need to go back and look at whats available and ask themselves "why is the top value so low currently".

I wish the guy who made Thunderforged had listened to the players before it was too late, please don't be like the guy who designed Thunderforged...

Cantor
12-15-2015, 08:56 AM
I would like to see loot boosts and gems as well as running on hard/elite(meaning drops at base quest level, not adjusted) all increase the chance of good rolls, rather than the ML. For example if that ML 20 item has a good chance at +7 small chance at +8 and a very rare chance at +9, bump up those rolls a bit. Or increase the chance at masterful/wonderous crafted.

NoWorries
12-15-2015, 09:10 AM
Also the wording for some "newly" introduced affixes (Like Spell Resistance) do not follow the pattern of Enhancement, Insightful, Quality and/or Exceptional but introduce their own bonustype.

They aren't introducing any new types, those existing effects used those bonus types already. So the options were to change existing effects in place, or have the new effects use those existing bonus types.


Hardness has been adjusted.

UMD has also been adjusted.

Paralyzing will start showing up at ML 15.

Loot tables go up to level 40. This means that running a base level 32 raid on elite will still leave 6 levels for loot boosts to have an effect.

Implement bonuses to Spellpower will show up on any weapon that has a spellpower bonus effect.

Zzevel
12-15-2015, 09:22 AM
I also think that a curse system with stronger rewards and negatives and maybe some innovation could be really fun. Like weapon with extra +[W]s but it drains HP or SP once per second when it is used. Or item that grants freedom of movement but negates all runspeed bonuses so you only (and most of the time) move at normal character speed. Weapons with effects like leveldrain that have a chance to proc on you when you get hit. Caster item with substantial boost but high chance to fatigue you on spell casts. Also like -4 to stat to gain like +2 to main stat of item might be okish. Could have different strenghts like -6 for +3 and -8 for +4. Not sure if 2:1 ratio is right or if it should be more like 3:1. Getting a negative to a stat you dont need much isn't very punishing. This could also be preset so that certain boost gives certain negative that still matters but is worth it for some. Like say int boost gives str negative(you still need it for carrying) and str boost gives dex negative(reflex saves).

It sounds cool and you can have fun with it... BUT if is too out of whack NOBODY except a few flavor r newb builds will use it and it gains the DDO player-base as a whole nothing in the end. At least with small curses for small gains there is reason to use the EQ without being gimped full time.

Keep Cursed items in the loot table... small penalties for small rewards.

TPICKRELL
12-15-2015, 09:26 AM
Paralyzing will start showing up at ML 15.



Paras used to be available at ML 8. That might be to low, but 15 doesn't leave much room before paras stop being useful. Id think 12 or so would be a better place for it.

Propane
12-15-2015, 09:42 AM
They aren't introducing any new types, those existing effects used those bonus types already. So the options were to change existing effects in place, or have the new effects use those existing bonus types.


Hardness has been adjusted.

UMD has also been adjusted.

Paralyzing will start showing up at ML 15.

Loot tables go up to level 40. This means that running a base level 32 raid on elite will still leave 6 levels for loot boosts to have an effect.

Good for UMD and Hardness -

Paralyzing - currently is it 10 ( afew min lv8 with race restrictions running around) at LV 15 is too high... unless you the DC is being scaled to item ML or something....

UurlockYgmeov
12-15-2015, 09:46 AM
Good for UMD and Hardness -

Paralyzing - currently is it 10 ( afew min lv8 with race restrictions running around) at LV 15 is too high... unless you the DC is being scaled to item ML or something....

I will miss the hardness... :(

Agree on Para... ml:12 and it needs to scale better (provide higher dc for higher ml)

warryofjerry
12-15-2015, 10:18 AM
Paralyzing will start showing up at ML 15.

Paralyzing used to show up min lvl 10, in fact it really is only useful from lvl 10-16 or so.


Don't even bother putting this in then......another fail.

PuppiesAndRainbows
12-15-2015, 10:56 AM
Will the new randomized loot system make it into the update?

If so: will Cannith deconstruction be fixed to work with the new loot?

Elfishski
12-15-2015, 11:21 AM
Good suggestion from someone on the possibilities of having paralyzing in at earlier levels and more meaningful* at later levels by a scaling DC or within a range like other effects. I'd be perfectly happy with a DC2 save paralyzing at level 1, for example. Why does it have to be DC17 exactly on all weapons, really?

I'm glad you adjusted paralyzing, but this is just the one effect that happened to come up on the 20 or so low level items I looked at (along with 4 assassination items?). Did you look over other effects as well in case they have inappropriate min-levels, because based on what we've seen that seems pretty likely...

There's a lot of good potential in what you're doing with loot here, but I'm really worried it's going to have a lot more game breaking stuff in it without more time polishing it, and it's not so urgent you should rush it out tomorrow. We lived with universally useless random armor for years already now, what's another few weeks? Just having someone in the office proof-read everything to make sure it's written in a way that is consistent with the way other effects of the same type, for example.


* But scaling carefully because you get a lot of very high proc-rate builds in epics that can happily dominate with regular crumby paralyzing or thunderforged T2 which is effectively the same at 5% "no-save" proc vs every hit with meaninglessly low DC save.

Coyopa
12-15-2015, 11:21 AM
Paralyzing will start showing up at ML 15.

LOL! What's the point? "Here, you can have the paralyzing weapon effect now. Hope you enjoy it for the two levels it's actually useful. You can thank us later."

temp42
12-15-2015, 11:55 AM
Paralyze has a longer life than that, but 12 is a better place to start them than 15. Ideally as mentioned, scale the DC up, no reason we cant have tiers of paralyzing for all levels, the way there are tiers of other effects now that scaling is being added. +1 DC/min level or something, merges it into the improved paralyzing that is already out there effectively.

Still generally not a lot of use on elite dungeons, but handy in normal difficulty content.

Qhualor
12-15-2015, 12:11 PM
Paralyzing will start showing up at ML 15.

Something to consider, spending 20 AP in AA tree gets you paralyzing arrows. I also agree that the ML should be lowered to 10-12.

Rautis
12-15-2015, 12:36 PM
It sounds cool and you can have fun with it... BUT if is too out of whack NOBODY except a few flavor r newb builds will use it and it gains the DDO player-base as a whole nothing in the end. At least with small curses for small gains there is reason to use the EQ without being gimped full time.

Keep Cursed items in the loot table... small penalties for small rewards.

You're right that no one uses an item with a penalty unless it's worth it. Concern with too big bonuses might be that stars aligned item could be too powerful. Too small bonuses/negatives on other hand might feel meaningless. So one has to find a balance between these. I think there could be room for different curses with different power levels and differences in curse/bonus level.

Silverleafeon
12-15-2015, 01:41 PM
Loot tables go up to level 40. This means that running a base level 32 raid on elite will still leave 6 levels for loot boosts to have an effect..

Nicely done.
I assume its all min level 30 stuff, this means the days of farming high level quests during loot bonus happy day are back again!

maddong
12-15-2015, 02:01 PM
They aren't introducing any new types, those existing effects used those bonus types already. So the options were to change existing effects in place, or have the new effects use those existing bonus types.


Hardness has been adjusted.

UMD has also been adjusted.

Paralyzing will start showing up at ML 15.

Loot tables go up to level 40. This means that running a base level 32 raid on elite will still leave 6 levels for loot boosts to have an effect.

Implement bonuses to Spellpower will show up on any weapon that has a spellpower bonus effect.

Those look like good changes.

Para used to be ML 10 loot in level 13 chests (or gianthold quest turn in) with a very rare ML 8 racially restricted version dropping instead (level 13 chest still).

Could we delay loot until 29.1 to get it right?

Looking forward to +2 loot boosts again, thanks!

eris2323
12-15-2015, 02:57 PM
They aren't introducing any new types, those existing effects used those bonus types already. So the options were to change existing effects in place, or have the new effects use those existing bonus types.


Hardness has been adjusted.

UMD has also been adjusted.

Paralyzing will start showing up at ML 15.

Loot tables go up to level 40. This means that running a base level 32 raid on elite will still leave 6 levels for loot boosts to have an effect.

Implement bonuses to Spellpower will show up on any weapon that has a spellpower bonus effect.

The only thing wrong with this is the paralyzing weapons... level 15? Really?

I mean, no, we don't want level 3 paralyzers... but what was wrong with their level 10 status for a standard +1 para weapon with no extra suffix?

On the other hand, I guess compulsively saving every low level paralyze weapon for the last 5 years will really help me out, for MY characters... I will be like unto a god, when no one else has them, and I do due to my long play time...

Systern
12-15-2015, 04:26 PM
They aren't introducing any new types, those existing effects used those bonus types already. So the options were to change existing effects in place, or have the new effects use those existing bonus types.


Hardness has been adjusted.

UMD has also been adjusted.

Paralyzing will start showing up at ML 15.

Loot tables go up to level 40. This means that running a base level 32 raid on elite will still leave 6 levels for loot boosts to have an effect.

Implement bonuses to Spellpower will show up on any weapon that has a spellpower bonus effect.


So Elite level 32 raid, +1 guild ship buff, +loot gem from monster manual, +loot DDO bonus days, + chest blesser and you're at 40 or 41?


P.S. I know you said "some people like it", but everyone I've asked is either ambivalent or dislikes the way loot bonus works. Find the junk today that you can't use until tomorrow (but still won't)!

sirgog
12-15-2015, 07:13 PM
Paralyzing should be available and somewhat rare on the level 10 'not lucky' tables, and on the level 8 'lucky' tables.

Its power scales down tremendously as monster Will saves grow.

maddong
12-15-2015, 07:22 PM
Paralyzing should be available and somewhat rare on the level 10 'not lucky' tables, and on the level 8 'lucky' tables.

Its power scales down tremendously as monster Will saves grow.

Paralyzing was never in the level 10 loot table though. It was the level 13 loot table which dropped ML 10 items possibly ML 8 with racial restriction.

xaul17
12-15-2015, 08:55 PM
Paralyzing should be available and somewhat rare on the level 10 'not lucky' tables, and on the level 8 'lucky' tables.

Its power scales down tremendously as monster Will saves grow.

This is a cool idea, actually. Add some higher tier effects as "lucky" effects on items with a lower ML.

Also, will loot-gems effect the chance of pulling a lucky item?

sirgog
12-15-2015, 09:44 PM
Paralyzing was never in the level 10 loot table though. It was the level 13 loot table which dropped ML 10 items possibly ML 8 with racial restriction.

That is true.

More exactly, according to the datamined info from years back (post-MOTU pre-Ghostbaning), once it was decided that it was a weapon, level 13 loot had a 25% chance to be +6 equivalent (e.g. +1 paralyzing), 50% to be +5 and 25% to be +4. 13 was the lowest it could appear but it was twice as common at 14 or higher.

Then you had to roll "+1 enhancement bonus with +5 prefix and no suffix" which was about 5% (most of the possible results were about the same chance in this step).

Then you had to roll Paralyzing, which was a pretty high chance once you got to this stage as there weren't many +5 prefixes.

memloch
12-16-2015, 03:51 PM
My concern is that magic users will no longer be using staffs as you will be better off with two good single handed weapons. A mage with a staff is iconic and something should be done to keep this in the game.

glmfw1
12-16-2015, 07:03 PM
Make the descriptions as succinct, accurate and straightforward as possible - but please keep them all there.

Long term players may understand what different border colours mean, but for newer players the descriptions allow them to understand things faster and get up to speed with what exists and what will interact with what else.
For Masterful Craftsmanship... rather than the current description (3 lines long) I would go with "Masterful: Slightly more powerful than normal items (+1 to Total Enchantment)" or something similar - takes up less space, but gives the same information. The same can be done with most descriptions.

Leave flavour text for named weapons. I am quite happy with a Lootgen sword doing "+20d6 Light Damage" - I don't need to know that it "burns with the light of the imaginary 4E God Amaunator and/or Iriaan depending on which side of the rift it is on". On the named "Sword of Lathander" I would expect flavour text, but as part of the item description, rather than the summary of individual powers (e.g. "This sword burns with the light of Lathander, God of the Dawn and Rebirth. It does not burn with the light of imaginary 4E Gods").

kmoustakas
12-17-2015, 01:01 AM
Randomized loot is a bit further along than with the last Lammania preview.

-New scaling effects should be dropping in all slots, and the majority of that should be the correct effects (some are probably still missing)

-Weapon +W bonuses are automatically applied at different minimum levels and go higher than before. Note - these no longer have an effect description to go along with them so you will not see Paragon/Epic etc. There will just be a +W bonus applied and listed in the damage section:

Min level 10 = +0.5W
Min Level 20 = +1.0W
Min Level 24 = +2.0W
Min Level 28 = +3.0W


-Clarification - I've seen a lot of mention of players thinking that only one level of an effect will drop at Minimum level. Most effects come in a range of power for any given minimum level. Example - a min level 20 item could come with Strength +7, +8, or +9.


Some things still not working:

-Different levels of Vorpal are not dropping, only the base one. - fixed in latest update
-Likely some +0 insightful bonuses dropping in the first couple levels of loot
-Lucky loot does not have different border colors yet - fixed in latest update
-Scaling version of Spellcraft does not exist yet and therefore doesn't drop in random loot currently
-Effects aren't restricted by type yet, so you will see things such as both melee and ranged alacrity show up on the same item -fixed in latest update
-Healing/repair amp not currently scaling



Other things of note:

-Cursed items do not drop. Given the power of items it doesn't really seem necessary, but it is a discussion that can be had. I will say that if we started dropping them again, they would stack properly this time around - ex. If you had two different cursed items that lowered intelligence, they would both actually lower intelligence instead of just one.

-Once the lucky loot icons are in, do players want the text saying it is masterful craftsmanship/etc. or is just the border change enough (Overall I'm trying to minimize the effect info to make it easier/quicker to look at)? Also Luckier loot does not change the bind status, all random weapons/armor/equipment at this time are unbound.

-Now that minimum level is tied to the level of the quest, I have been thinking about having only the enhancement effect increase the +value of the item, and no longer having the enhancement bonus listed under effects. This would mean a +11 weapon would have a +11 Enhancement bonus which would apply to the damage as you would expect. Looking for thoughts on this. If this were to happen and if lucky loot doesn't add to the listing then only the actual effects granted by the item would be shown.

-There has been some discussion on if random loot should only drop with a minimum level of the quest or a range of the level of the quest -1 or -2. Looking for more thoughts on this.



And as always, looking for any feedback/issues as players get in and find random loot throughout the Lammania preview.

I thank you for looking into random loot. I'm terrified of what'll come out of it but I am certain it can not be any worse than ghostbane.

Question: if the minimum level of the weapon ties into the +w, does that mean that paragon/epic weapons that had masterful or wondrous onto them would loose their +w's now?

Mindril
12-17-2015, 12:29 PM
I grind up most random loot for essences and crafting xp. Getting a cursed item increases the odds of getting a bigger plus, hence more mats/xp.

Newer players may need the descriptions of all an items features. Maybe there could be a toggle in the UI panel for long/short descriptions.