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NoWorries
12-07-2015, 12:54 PM
In order to get some polish on the effects in random loot, I thought I'd open up the discussion of what effects are dropping on which loot slot. This is obviously a pretty long list making it tougher to work with, but I wanted to open it up to player feedback before we went live with it. Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.

So without further ado:

Armor:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery, Constitution
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects, Vitality, Healing/Repair Amplification
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Parrying, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Constitution

Weapons:

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages, Vorpal, Paralyzing, Spell Powers
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes, Spell Criticals, Insightful Spell Powers, Banishing, Smiting, Deception, Keen
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison, Spell Penetrations

Shield:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery, Spell Powers
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects, Shield Bashing damage/Spikes, Wizardry
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Parrying, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Spell Powers,

Head:

Prefix: Fortification, Wizardry, Sheltering, Insightful Incite, Concentration, Haggle, Intimidate, Listen, Intelligence
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Parrying, Accuracy, Spell Focuses, Diplomacy, Insightful Intimidate, UMD, Wisdom, Spellsight, Stunning, Search,Spot
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Individual Resistance Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Incite, Deathblock, Insightful Concentration, Insightful Haggle, Insightful Listen, Insightful UMD, Insightful Intelligence, Insightful Search

Eyes:

Prefix: Seeker, Spell Focuses, Concentration, Disable Device, Search, UMD, Wisdom, Intelligence
Suffix: Accuracy, Spell Penetrations, Insightful Spell Focuses, Alacrity, Insightful Concentration, Open Lock, Spot, Insightful UMD, Deadly
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Spell Penetrations, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Insightful Disable Device, Insightful Search, Insightful Spot, Insightful Wisdom, Insightful Intelligence

Bracers:

Prefix: Elemental Resistances ,Insightful Spell Resistances, Individual Resistance Saves, Protection, Deathblock, Strength
Suffix: Constitution, Tumble, Move Silently, Intimidate, Insightful Sheltering, Dodge Bonus, Fortification
Extra: Physical Resistances, Parrying, Sheltering, Insightful Intimidate, Perform, Insightful Strength

Rings:

Prefix: Physical Resistances, Wizardry, Elemental Absorptions, Spell Resistance, Spell Critical Increases, Balance, Diplomacy, Hide, Perform, Constitution, Charisma
Suffix: Dexterity, Tumble, Swim, Open Lock, Insightful Diplomacy, Bluff, Insightful Balance, Spell Powers, Assassinate, Sheltering, Protection, Insightful Individual Resist Saves, Spell Powers, False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances, Elemental Resistances, Feather Falling, Speed
Extra: Insightful Elemental Resistances, Insightful False Life, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Parrying, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Bluff, Insightful Hide, Insightful Perform, InsightfuL Constitution, Insightful Charisma

Feet:

Prefix: Dodge Bonus, Seeker, Combat Mastery, Speed, Balance, Move Silently, Tumble, Dexterity
Suffix: Strength, Guard Effects, Swim, Jump, Insightful Balance, Diversion, Sheltering, Parrying, Feather Falling
Extra: Insightful Fortification, False Life, Insightful Dodge Bonus, Insightful Seeker, Insightful Combat Mastery, Insightful Jump, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Swim, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Dexterity

Neck:

Prefix: Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Spell Focuses, Heal, Repair, Tumble, Constitution
Suffix: Charisma, Bluff, Sheltering, False Life, Insightful Wizardry, Natural Armor Bonus, Insightful Intimidate, Spellsight, Search, Spot
Extra: Insightful Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Insightful Heal, Insightful Repair, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Constitution, Insightful Spot

Hands:

Prefix: Wizardry, Spell Powers, Accuracy, Doublestrike, Spell Penetration, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Assassinate, Alacrity, Bluff, Disable Device, Open Lock, Perform, Dexterity, Strength
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Shield Bashing (chance to shield bash), Armor Piercing, Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Insightful Combat Mastery, Universal Spell Power, Universal Spell Crit, Insightful Disable Device, Heal, Intimidate, Repair, UMD, Deadly, Healing/Repair Amp
Extra: Insightful Dexterity, Insightful Strength, Insightful Perform, Insightful Open Lock, Insightful Bluff, Incite, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stun, Insightful Spell Penetration, Insightful Doublestrike, Insightful Accuracy, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Wizardry

Cloak:

Prefix: Elemental Resistance, Spell Resistance, Individual Resist Saves, Diversion, Balance, Hide, Charisma, Intelligence
Suffix: Wisdom, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Dodge Bonnus, Natural Armor Bonus, Resistance Saves, Enchantment/Illusion Saves, Elemental Absorptions, Physical Resistances, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Feather Falling, Spellsight
Extra: Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Spell Resistance, Insightful Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Insightful Diversion, Insightful Balance, Insightful Hide, Insightful Charisma, Insightful Intelligence, Insightful Wisdom

Belt:

Prefix: Spell Resistance, Dodge Bonus, Doublestrike, Move Silently, Insightful Diversion, Deathblock, Diplomacy, Physical Resistances, Constitution
Suffix: False Life, Insightful Spell Resistance, Natural Armor Bonus, Parrying, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Balance, Jump, Swim, Tumble, Strength
Extra: Insightful Constitution, Insightful Strength, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Swim, Insightful Move Silently, Assassinate, Insightful Doublestrike, Insightful Dodge Bonus, Insightful False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances

SableShadow
12-07-2015, 01:09 PM
Assassinate *and* Insightful Assassinate on random l00tz ... interesting.

janave
12-07-2015, 01:11 PM
Looks solid at a quick glance.

Deadly moved only to weapons? This might be unwelcome for some, altho i can see why that effect would be dropped from gear.

Double strike could appear on shields i guess, it might be desireable if the %s scale better than now.

Oh, what about trinkets? or the wondrous system is not part of the rand loot ?

Insightful Spell Resistances - is this SR or saves?

Actually, seeker on boots is a little weird, maybe swap with hands <-> vertigo ?

FestusHood
12-07-2015, 01:14 PM
The weapon effects listed here aren't very interesting to me. Parrying is basically riposte, but worse. Seeker and alacrity are not things i personally would want on my weapon. Same with diversion or incite. I think lots of these effects can already be Cannith crafted now, but nobody ever does.

Greantun
12-07-2015, 01:16 PM
Weapons:

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison


Sure am glad I have all my deadly items already. Things like Deadly Helmet of Accuracy with this are no longer possible. Since I would be either using GS, LGS, or other named weapons, deadly is a now dead effect.

FestusHood
12-07-2015, 01:17 PM
Looks solid at a quick glance.

Deadly moved only to weapons? This might be unwelcome for some, altho i can see why that effect would be dropped from gear.

Double strike could appear on shields i guess, it might be desireable if the %s scale better than now.

Oh, what about trinkets? or the wondrous system is not part of the rand loot ?

Insightful Spell Resistances - is this SR or saves?

Might be time to stock up on deadly items. No, i wouldn't want it to take up an effect on my weapon, definitely a step down from having it on gear.

janave
12-07-2015, 01:18 PM
Might be time to stock up on deadly items. No, i wouldn't want it to take up an effect on my weapon, definitely a step down from having it on gear.

Eh, it was a little too good to be honest.

Grailhawk
12-07-2015, 01:18 PM
Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.

So without further ado:

Armor:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery, Constitution
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Parrying, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Constitution

Healing Amplification

New Effect: 5-15% AC increases in the Extra slot only.

Light/Cloth Armor Only
Dodge, Mobility Feat, Dexterity

Saekee
12-07-2015, 01:20 PM
What about this list that was mentioned in the Lam thread?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Composed_weapon_affixes

Saekee
12-07-2015, 01:23 PM
For weapons: maybe add procs and debuffs like Estar weapons (http://ddowiki.com/page/Eveningstar_Challenge_Pack) http://ddowiki.com/page/Eveningstar_Challenge_Pack

Note: I suggested we implement a crafting option (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/468391-Estar-Challenge-rewards-Selectable-crafting-suggestion) with estar weapons

Grailhawk
12-07-2015, 01:24 PM
Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.
Weapons:

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison


Keen?
Bloodletting, Ribcracking, Heartseeking?
Bleeding?

Also it seams like deadly is now only available on weapons, this is going to grandfather a lot of +10 deadly items as very powerful.

TPICKRELL
12-07-2015, 01:25 PM
What about smiting, paralyzing, banishing, vorpal, disruption... Those are pretty classic random loot weapon abilities, I'd hate to see them left out.

Saekee
12-07-2015, 01:26 PM
Keen?
Bloodletting, Ribcracking, Heartseeking?
Bleeding?

Also it seams like deadly is now only available on weapons, this is going to grandfather a lot of +10 deadly items as very powerful.


What about smiting, paralyzing, banishing, vorpal, disruption... Those are pretty classic random loot weapon abilities, I'd hate to see them left out.
/signed

jalont
12-07-2015, 01:27 PM
I really hate that it seems you've reduced the variety of slots stats can go on.

Roland_D'Arabel
12-07-2015, 01:27 PM
Might be time to stock up on deadly items. No, i wouldn't want it to take up an effect on my weapon, definitely a step down from having it on gear.

Agree with this. When most folks goal is to acquire named crafted weapons (Thunderforged, Greensteel or LGS) having deadly only appear on random gen weapons is illogical.

Also those weapon affixes look a little boring. Can we not have some return of some of the composed weapon affixes?

Examples: A Thousand Suns, Blasphemy, Crusader, Scintillating etc. Full list found here:

DDO Wiki Composed Affixes (http://ddowiki.com/page/Composed_weapon_affixes)

Grailhawk
12-07-2015, 01:28 PM
Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.

Eyes:

Prefix: Seeker, Spell Focuses, Concentration, Disable Device, Search, UMD, Wisdom
Suffix: Accuracy, Spell Penetrations, Insightful Spell Focuses, Alacrity, Insightful Concentration, Open Lock, Spot, Insightful UMD, Intelligence
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Spell Penetrations, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Insightful Disable Device, Insightful Search, Insightful, Spot, Insightful Wisdom

Bracers:

Extra effect only
True Seeing

FestusHood
12-07-2015, 01:29 PM
The slots where certain stats can appear seem much more restricted in this system.

Spell resistance is tricky, it depends on what the amount is and at what level.

Looks like you borrowed a lot of the unique effects that can be Cannith crafted, but they are mostly the ones nobody ever uses.

I'm less worried about random loot outclassing named loot now after looking at this.

Heathir
12-07-2015, 01:30 PM
/signed

No spell power, lore etc on weapons??

FestusHood
12-07-2015, 01:31 PM
Eh, it was a little too good to be honest.

Maybe, but the horse has long bolted. Even if they went back and wiped all previous random loot, which they said they aren't going to do, it's still on named items.

Grailhawk
12-07-2015, 01:33 PM
Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.

Rings:

Prefix: Physical Resistances, Wizardry, Elemental Absorptions, Spell Resistance, Spell Critical Increases, Balance, Diplomacy, Hide, Perform, Constitution, Charisma
Suffix: Dexterity, Tumble, Swim, Open Lock, Insightful Diplomacy, Bluff, Insightful Balance, Spell Powers, Assassinate, Sheltering, Protection, Insightful Individual Resist Saves, Spell Powers, False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances, Elemental Resistances
Extra: Insightful Elemental Resistances, Insightful False Life, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Parrying, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Bluff, Insightful Hide, Insightful Perform, InsightfuL Constitution, Insightful Charisma

Rings should come with all stat options

Prefix: Int, Wis, Cha
Suffix: Str, Dex, Con

IMO

jalont
12-07-2015, 01:33 PM
Rings should come with all stat options

Prefix: Int, Wis, Cha
Suffix: Str, Dex, Con

IMO

Yes.

Grailhawk
12-07-2015, 01:34 PM
Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.

Concealment is a massive part of the layered defense that players have some items should provide a concealment bonues to miss chance in the range of 5-30%.

Grailhawk
12-07-2015, 01:37 PM
No spell power, lore etc on weapons??

Spellpower should be available on Weapons/Shields, Rings and Necklace as prefix
Spell Lore should be available on Weapons/Shield, Rings and Necklaces as suffix

IMO.

Maudib_360
12-07-2015, 01:48 PM
Ever since Feather ghostbaned the loot tables, people have been asking for a return of the really cool affixes to random loot. For the weapons, we had stuff like:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Composed_weapon_affixes

For accessories we had things such as Convalescent Bracers of Parrying, armor of invulnerability, et al.

This new loot gen doesn't really look any better than the ghostbaned junk we have now. I can see that there are a few new effects added like armor piercing to weapons, but you've done nothing to bring back what people have been asking for. All I see is "insightful this" and "insightful that" and stat inflation.

If this is the system you plan on instituting with Cannith crafting, don't bother. I'd rather have the flexibility we have now.

FestusHood
12-07-2015, 01:51 PM
Spellpower should be available on Weapons/Shields, Rings and Necklace as prefix
Spell Lore should be available on Weapons/Shield, Rings and Necklaces as suffix

IMO.

Yes, those would be the good things that can currently be crafted, things people sometimes use.

Spell power used to come on helmets too.

Maybe with the crafting update we will still be able to make those things, but at a higher power, and with unbound flexible shards. It could make crafters in demand again. Maybe provide a new thing to sell.

WiseFreelancer
12-07-2015, 01:53 PM
Am I right in saying that weapons don't have any caster options? Because that would be beyond awful. What are casters supposed to do with their weapon slots?

Trillea
12-07-2015, 02:00 PM
Spellpower should be available on Weapons/Shields, Rings and Necklace as prefix
Spell Lore should be available on Weapons/Shield, Rings and Necklaces as suffix

IMO.

Don't forget DC-improving abilities as well!

NoWorries
12-07-2015, 02:02 PM
What about this list that was mentioned in the Lam thread?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Composed_weapon_affixes


A compound system works well in a system where Prefix/Suffix and Enhancement bonus share a power pool, since it is impossible to get several good effects on an item without a compound effect.

In the new system, all of the effects can be top tier powerful at the same time. Having compound on top of that would go from being able to get 3 top tier effects to be able to get 4-6 top tier effects all at once. That is likely a power level we don't want coming out of random loot (and some of those compound names could possibly be recreated on random loot just as it is depending on what slots effects show up on).

It isn't off the table as an option completely, but it would have to be extremely carefully considered on which of those compound effects could be added to the system without blowing away all other loot.

Loromir
12-07-2015, 02:05 PM
Maybe I just didn't see it...but Feather Falling is a glaring omission.

HuneyMunster
12-07-2015, 02:05 PM
Weapons:

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison




The large majority of these effects would only be suitable for offhand weapons. This means it will be hard to find suitable two handed weapons. Also no caster weapons.

Or are these in additions to current effects that are available?

memloch
12-07-2015, 02:05 PM
What about this list that was mentioned in the Lam thread?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Composed_weapon_affixes

I would also like to see these effects even if it is a rare drop

Loromir
12-07-2015, 02:10 PM
A compound system works well in a system where Prefix/Suffix and Enhancement bonus share a power pool, since it is impossible to get several good effects on an item without a compound effect.

In the new system, all of the effects can be top tier powerful at the same time. Having compound on top of that would go from being able to get 3 top tier effects to be able to get 4-6 top tier effects all at once. That is likely a power level we don't want coming out of random loot (and some of those compound names could possibly be recreated on random loot just as it is depending on what slots effects show up on).

It isn't off the table as an option completely, but it would have to be extremely carefully considered on which of those compound effects could be added to the system without blowing away all other loot.


Why can't we have loot that would be one or the other. In other words...the code makes a check to generate loot from the "compound system" table or from"Prefix/Suffix and Enhancement bonus" table. I would even be OK with seeing the loot from the compound system be a low percentage chance of say like 5% vs 95% the other way.

Loromir
12-07-2015, 02:12 PM
Don't forget DC-improving abilities as well!

...and the weapons seem to be missing various magical power items (Combustion, Erosion, Glaciation etc) as well as magical lore.

jakeelala
12-07-2015, 02:20 PM
A compound system works well in a system where Prefix/Suffix and Enhancement bonus share a power pool, since it is impossible to get several good effects on an item without a compound effect.

In the new system, all of the effects can be top tier powerful at the same time. Having compound on top of that would go from being able to get 3 top tier effects to be able to get 4-6 top tier effects all at once. That is likely a power level we don't want coming out of random loot (and some of those compound names could possibly be recreated on random loot just as it is depending on what slots effects show up on).

It isn't off the table as an option completely, but it would have to be extremely carefully considered on which of those compound effects could be added to the system without blowing away all other loot.

People want fun and unique shinies, I bet you can figure it out. People want a good roll on loot to result in a colored outline, and a fancy name for effects that interesting and not frequent. The names of the old compound effects were most of the appeal, the effects themselves were good, but not that much more awesome than most other items available. Although My Cosmic Hvy Repeater of Obscenity was both very powerful and completely AWESOME to link to people. Of course once level drain was nerfed, it was that great anymore.

Dragavon
12-07-2015, 02:23 PM
In order to get some polish on the effects in random loot, I thought I'd open up the discussion of what effects are dropping on which loot slot.

I really dislike this. A lot. This is a lot more limited in what you can get in which items, and will give us much fewer options. Moving things like deadly to weapons only means deadly will not be available for many new players. I have my deadly items, it does not bother me much.

But this is worse than what we have now, not an improvement at all, even though I do understand it has the potential to create some really nice items if you are lucky.

SableShadow
12-07-2015, 02:23 PM
Although My Cosmic Hvy Repeater of Obscenity was both very powerful and completely AWESOME to link to people. Of course once level drain was nerfed, it was that great anymore.

With a name like that? Still awesome! :D

UurlockYgmeov
12-07-2015, 02:26 PM
1st - looking good!

How does construction material work? separate chance to get Adamantine, Blueshine, Bone, Byeshk, Cloth, Cold Iron, Crystal, Darkleaf, Darkwood, Densewood, Dwarven Iron, Feyleather, Flametouched Iron, Flesh, Force (material), Gem (material), Glass, Ice, Leather (material type), Light, Magesteel, Mithral, Planeforged Steel, Rust, Silver, Spiritcraft Leather, Spiritforged Iron, Steel (material), Stone, Wood?

What about alignment breakers, dr breakers, metalline?

Clickes (including exp retreat, grease, fog, feather falling, spell power, etc)


Armor:
missing Effects: material, ASF reduction (maybe as extra) clickies?

Weapons:
material, Spell casting, Clickies?

Spellcasting Staves should have 2x the stuff.

Shield:
material, ASF reduction, Spell casting, clickies?

Head:
DR - insightful DR, exceptional DR clickies?

Eyes:
Insightful Open Lock, clickies?

Extra: True Seeing as a clickie (same duration as haste)

Bracers:
Healing Amp, Spell casting , clickies?

Rings:
Speed, Blur, Displacement, deathblock, deadly, feather falling, clickies

Feet:
feather falling, clickies

Neck:
turn undead (+HD, +turns per rest, + level), clickies

Hands:
Prefix: Double shot, Open Lock
Extra: Insightful Doubleshot, Clickies

Cloak:
why is cha and int a prefix and wis a suffix?
feather falling, Heightened Awareness and clickies.

Belt:
Yep, you guessed it, clickies.

InsanityIsYourFriend
12-07-2015, 02:26 PM
A compound system works well in a system where Prefix/Suffix and Enhancement bonus share a power pool, since it is impossible to get several good effects on an item without a compound effect.

In the new system, all of the effects can be top tier powerful at the same time. Having compound on top of that would go from being able to get 3 top tier effects to be able to get 4-6 top tier effects all at once. That is likely a power level we don't want coming out of random loot (and some of those compound names could possibly be recreated on random loot just as it is depending on what slots effects show up on).

It isn't off the table as an option completely, but it would have to be extremely carefully considered on which of those compound effects could be added to the system without blowing away all other loot.

I personally say make the compound effects very rare, the average weapon should in no way (and according to this list wont) be on par with named weapons. But an extremely rare random gen drop should in fact be able to compete with named weapons (and having 4-6 top tier effects would allow something like this to happen) while also making things like Legendary Greensteel still be top dog

EmGreen
12-07-2015, 02:30 PM
Deadly only on weapons would make me quite unhappy - it would effectively handicap most named weapons, particularly those created before the deadly affix was introduced, since the majority of them do not have deadly and deadly would no longer be available on any other slot.

No return of the convalescent affix?

InsanityIsYourFriend
12-07-2015, 02:43 PM
In order to get some polish on the effects in random loot, I thought I'd open up the discussion of what effects are dropping on which loot slot. This is obviously a pretty long list making it tougher to work with, but I wanted to open it up to player feedback before we went live with it. Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.

So without further ado:

Armor:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery, Constitution
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Parrying, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Constitution
I think Vitality could go here as well, perhaps healing amplification
Weapons:

Prefix: Riposte, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison
Spell power, Spell critical, Spell DC, Banishing/Smiting/Disruption/Vorpal, Ribcracking/heartseeking/bloodletting, paralyzing, Alignment based damage (holy/chaotic/lawful), DR bypass (metalline/aligned/rest of the metal types)
Shield:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery, Constitution
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects, Shield Bashing damage/Spikes
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Riposte, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Constitution
Spell power and wizardry should also go here for clerics/fvs and to a lesser extent paladins otherwise they will be stuck to named shields that give them the extra affixes in the shield that they need
Head:

Prefix: Fortification, Wizardry, Sheltering, Insightful Incite, Concentration, Haggle, Intimidate, Listen, Intelligence
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Parrying, Accuracy, Spell Focuses, Diplomacy, Insightful Intimidate, UMD, Wisdom
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Individual Resistance Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Incite, Deathblock, Insightful Concentration, Insightful Haggle, Insightful Listen, Insightful UMD, Insightful Intelligence
No glaring ommisions
Eyes:

Prefix: Seeker, Spell Focuses, Concentration, Disable Device, Search, UMD, Wisdom
Suffix: Accuracy, Spell Penetrations, Insightful Spell Focuses, Alacrity, Insightful Concentration, Open Lock, Spot, Insightful UMD, Intelligence
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Spell Penetrations, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Insightful Disable Device, Insightful Search, Insightful, Spot, Insightful Wisdom
No glaring Ommisions
Bracers:

Prefix: Elemental Resistances ,Insightful Spell Resistances, Individual Resistance Saves, Protection, Deathblock, Strength
Suffix: Constitution, Tumble, Move Silently, Intimidate, Insightful Sheltering, Dodge Bonus, Fortification
Extra: Physical Resistances, Parrying, Sheltering, Insightful Intimidate, Perform, Insightful Strength
Speed, Healing amplification, Dexterity, hit points
Rings:

Prefix: Physical Resistances, Wizardry, Elemental Absorptions, Spell Resistance, Spell Critical Increases, Balance, Diplomacy, Hide, Perform, Constitution, Charisma
Suffix: Dexterity, Tumble, Swim, Open Lock, Insightful Diplomacy, Bluff, Insightful Balance, Spell Powers, Assassinate, Sheltering, Protection, Insightful Individual Resist Saves, Spell Powers, False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances, Elemental Resistances
Extra: Insightful Elemental Resistances, Insightful False Life, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves (does this stack with resistance? if not get rid of it entirely), Parrying, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Bluff, Insightful Hide, Insightful Perform, InsightfuL Constitution, Insightful Charisma
Speed, (hate to admit this) FF
Feet:

Prefix: Dodge Bonus, Seeker, Combat Mastery, Speed, Balance, Move Silently, Tumble, Dexterity
Suffix: Strength, Guard Effects, Swim, Jump, Insightful Balance, Diversion, Sheltering, Parrying
Extra: Insightful Fortification, False Life, Insightful Dodge Bonus, Insightful Seeker, Insightful Combat Mastery, Insightful Jump, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Swim, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Dexterity

Neck:

Prefix: Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves (does it stack? if not get rid of it entirely), Spell Focuses, Heal, Repair, Tumble, Constitution
Suffix: Charisma, Bluff, Sheltering, False Life, Insightful Wizardry, Natural Armor Bonus, Insightful Intimidate,
Extra: Insightful Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Insightful Heal, Insightful Repair, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Constitution
This slot should have just as many affixes as rings
Hands:

Prefix: Wizardry, Spell Powers, Accuracy, Doublestrike, Spell Penetration, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Assassinate, Alacrity, Bluff, Disable Device, Open Lock, Perform, Dexterity
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Shield Bashing (chance to shield bash), Armor Piercing, Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Insightful Combat Mastery, Universal Spell Power, Universal Spell Crit, Insightful Disable Device, Heal, Intimidate, Repair, UMD, Strength
Extra: Insightful Dexterity, Insightful Strength, Insightful Perform, Insightful Open Lock, Insightful Bluff, Incite, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stun, Insightful Spell Penetration, Insightful Doublestrike, Insightful Accuracy, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Wizardry
Speed
Cloak:

Prefix: Elemental Resistance, Spell Resistance, Individual Resist Saves, Diversion, Balance, Hide, Charisma, Intelligence
Suffix: Wisdom, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Dodge Bonnus, Natural Armor Bonus, Resistance Saves, Enchantment/Illusion Saves (does this stack? if not get rid of it entirely), Elemental Absorptions, Physical Resistances, Insightful Elemental Resistances
Extra: Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Spell Resistance, Insightful Enchantment\Illusion Saves(does this stack? if not get rid of it entirely), Insightful Sheltering, Insightful Diversion, Insightful Balance, Insightful Hide, Insightful Charisma, Insightful Intelligence, Insightful Wisdom
Healing Amplification, Repair Amplification, and Neg energy Amplification
Belt:

Prefix: Spell Resistance, Dodge Bonus, Doublestrike, Move Silently, Insightful Diversion, Deathblock, Diplomacy, Physical Resistances, Constitution
Suffix: False Life, Insightful Spell Resistance, Natural Armor Bonus, Parrying, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Balance, Jump, Swim, Tumble, Strength
Extra: Insightful Constitution, Insightful Strength, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Swim, Insightful Move Silently, Assassinate, Insightful Doublestrike, Insightful Dodge Bonus, Insightful False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances

Finally I think that Deathblock needs to be changed. The fact that is has negative energy absorption is nice... Unless you are a pale master, in which case it seriously screws you over, meaning you can never have a non augment deathblock. The following line should be added to deathblock: While in an undead form this affix becomes Death's Embrace. While in undead form you gain vulnerability to negative energy X%, and you are immune to death effects (like disruption).

btolson
12-07-2015, 02:46 PM
Looks terrible.

More effects in more places are needed, at least to match what's currently available.

e.g.

Deadly goggles of Accuracy
Charismatic goggles of Resistance
Clever goggles of Resistance
Wise goggles of Resistance

Those are all items I have and consider very useful.

Lootgen looks like it is going to be even worse than it is now.

Cleanincubus
12-07-2015, 02:54 PM
Feather Falling (boots, cloaks, rings)
Underwater Action (rings, necklaces, helms)
Ghostbane (weapons) *Unless included in "creature banes"
Paralyzing (weapons)
Blindness Immunity (goggles)
Holy/Good/Righteous (weapons)
Alignment damaging (weapons)
Aligned (weapons)
Poison (weapons)
Dodge (boots, belts, gloves
Armor Bonus (bracers, boots, gloves)
Natural Armor (most)
Haggle (necklaces, rings)
Fortification (rings, belts)
Spellsight (cloaks, helms, necklaces)
Keen/Impact (weapons)
Hallowed/Sacred

Mryal
12-07-2015, 03:00 PM
Looks interesting.
But ill second some motions :
Deadly back into goggles and necklaces
CHA/INT/CON/WIS/DEX/STR on rings
Spellpower and spell lore and spell focus on weapons.What are casters supposed to use on a weapon slot ???

The things i mentioned have been with us for a long time.Removing them now would be a mistake.

NoWorries
12-07-2015, 03:03 PM
Looks terrible.

More effects in more places are needed, at least to match what's currently available.


Effects will not necessarily match up to what is currently available. We are specifically trying to switch to more effects being in specific (which can be multiple) slots, as opposed to pretty much all slots.

This is a change, but there are also more effects, and named items will never be forced to adhere to this (allowing named items to be special in allowing extra flexibility in builds.)


Where they effects drop is still up for discussion, but it shouldn't be expected to match the current random loot system.

NoWorries
12-07-2015, 03:03 PM
Ghostbane (weapons) *Unless included in "creature banes"


Ghostbane just automatically shows up on every weapon now just so people never have to think about it again.

In actuality it is part of the banes.

TackW5
12-07-2015, 03:05 PM
I was excited at the loot revamp. I appreciate the effort to streamline the gear table so that a given item likely has synergistic abilities.

But this list concerns me.

Weapons: Nothing on weapons should be something I want all the time. Weapons are my hot swap items. I don't need stunning when I fight undead or red names, but I always want deadly, seeker, and alacrity. Also, where are the caster choices?

Shields: Please, make caster, particularly divine caster, spell stats available on shields. And again, these are hot swaps. I do not want my Con coming from my shield; I always want more HP.

Rogue skills: These are too restricted in terms of slots. Particularly, spot and search, normal and and insight, are eyes only. I appreciate the "realism," but this severely limits gearing options.

Rings: I really liked the old system in which rings could have any valid combo from another type of item. This kept the choices from being totally random on an individual ring, and really made them the "wild card" slots. This was very helpful. For example, if I could get a "goggles-mimic" ring, the fact that spot and search were otherwise "goggle-only" would not be as much of a concern.

Casters: I do not see Spellcraft anywhere, and spellpower and crit only on hands and rings.

UurlockYgmeov
12-07-2015, 03:05 PM
Effects will not necessarily match up to what is currently available. We are specifically trying to switch to more effects being in specific (which can be multiple) slots, as opposed to pretty much all slots.

This is a change, but there are also more effects, and named items will never be forced to adhere to this (allowing named items to be special in allowing extra flexibility in builds.)


Where they effects drop is still up for discussion, but it shouldn't be expected to match the current random loot system.

this is fine, just a reversal from the last random loot pass which has a very specific goal of more flexibility in what appeared where. Are we going to revert to the same level of rigidness as before or are you trying to go half-way or so?

is this a precursor to what the cannith crafting update pass will allow? (this and the other random loot thread)? ;p:cool:

Loromir
12-07-2015, 03:07 PM
Ghostbane just automatically shows up on every weapon now just so people never have to think about it again.

In actuality it is part of the banes.

What???? Every Weapon has Ghostbane on it now? Really?

UurlockYgmeov
12-07-2015, 03:12 PM
Ghostbane just automatically shows up on every weapon now just so people never have to think about it again.

In actuality it is part of the banes.

https://stancarey.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/futurama-fry-should-i-lol-or-roflmao.jpg

InsanityIsYourFriend
12-07-2015, 03:13 PM
Ghostbane just automatically shows up on every weapon now just so people never have to think about it again.

you heard it here first! alright everyone when you miss an incorporeal target blame NoWorries

Grailhawk
12-07-2015, 03:18 PM
Effects will not necessarily match up to what is currently available. We are specifically trying to switch to more effects being in specific (which can be multiple) slots, as opposed to pretty much all slots.

This is a change, but there are also more effects, and named items will never be forced to adhere to this (allowing named items to be special in allowing extra flexibility in builds.)


Where they effects drop is still up for discussion, but it shouldn't be expected to match the current random loot system.

Thats fine but deadly going from almost every where to weapons only isn't a good call.

For deadly I would suggest gloves and/or bracers and/or maybe rings or goggles.

Knobull
12-07-2015, 03:20 PM
You know what? Just cancel the whole thing. Please. I'm reminded of the old saying: "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it."

PuppiesAndRainbows
12-07-2015, 03:21 PM
I'm still a fan of wounding weapons.

Bewildering, Maladroit, Weakening, Wounding?

NoWorries
12-07-2015, 03:22 PM
Finally I think that Deathblock needs to be changed. The fact that is has negative energy absorption is nice... Unless you are a pale master, in which case it seriously screws you over, meaning you can never have a non augment deathblock. The following line should be added to deathblock: While in an undead form this affix becomes Death's Embrace. While in undead form you gain vulnerability to negative energy X%, and you are immune to death effects (like disruption).


First off, very nice post.

As for Deathblock specifically, I see what you're saying. I'm just not sure how possible it would be to change the effect on the fly like that given what form the player is in.

Impaqt
12-07-2015, 03:22 PM
What about smiting, paralyzing, banishing, vorpal, disruption... Those are pretty classic random loot weapon abilities, I'd hate to see them left out.

+1.

No more Vorpal at all?

I cant imagine P5's disappearing entirely from the loot table going over well.

NoWorries
12-07-2015, 03:23 PM
What???? Every Weapon has Ghostbane on it now? Really?

It was a sarcastic joke. Ghostbane is one of the bane selections a weapon can get.

Grailhawk
12-07-2015, 03:23 PM
You know what? Just cancel the whole thing. Please. I'm reminded of the old saying: "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it."

The prefix + suffix have the same power level this is going to make the system at least some what better then the previous. I may not ever use it my toons have tons of named and raid gear to choose from, but if starting a new toon having a 2 level appropriate stats on one piece of gear will be a big deal.

We just need to make sure they don't do something bad like limit deadly to only weapons. It would also be nice if we could get them to add a few more effect like healing amp that are missing.

Ralmeth
12-07-2015, 03:25 PM
A couple of initial thoughts:

Weapons
No holy as a prefix? Really?

Shields
Please add stunning. I always craft a stunning shield for any of my Vanguards, and it seems odd that this was never part of lootgen.

btolson
12-07-2015, 03:26 PM
Effects will not necessarily match up to what is currently available. We are specifically trying to switch to more effects being in specific (which can be multiple) slots, as opposed to pretty much all slots.

This is a change, but there are also more effects, and named items will never be forced to adhere to this (allowing named items to be special in allowing extra flexibility in builds.)


Where they effects drop is still up for discussion, but it shouldn't be expected to match the current random loot system.

At this point, I think I will have to ask that you scrap the lootgen revamp and simply leave us with what we've got.

One of the few purposes of lootgen today is the ability to shore up gaps in equipment sets. With a wide variety of effects in different places, this is somewhat readily accomplished.

Your outlined proposal is so rigid in what can go where, that this current purpose will be largely negated. It will be no different than shuffling named gear around.

Grailhawk
12-07-2015, 03:27 PM
A couple of initial thoughts:

Weapons
No holy as a prefix? Really?

Shields
Please add stunning. I always craft a stunning shield for any of my Vanguards, and it seems odd that this was never part of lootgen.

It's most likely that they are considering Holy an element, i asked about bleed but i feel its also most likely just been lumped into the elements list.

Ralmeth
12-07-2015, 03:28 PM
Deadly moved only to weapons? This might be unwelcome for some, altho i can see why that effect would be dropped from gear.

This is very unwelcome. Why change it after all these years? I'll make sure to start stock-piling deadly items.

UurlockYgmeov
12-07-2015, 03:32 PM
What about alignment breakers, dr breakers, metalline?

Loromir
12-07-2015, 03:37 PM
What about alignment breakers, dr breakers, metalline?


I like the concept that no worries has proposed....it just feel like there are a lot of missing effects. I actually like the idea of limiting certain abilities to certain gear slots, but agree with the whole deadly argument. Deadly should probably appear on a couple of additional slots (Trinket and Goggles?).

NoWorries
12-07-2015, 03:37 PM
Thats fine but deadly going from almost every where to weapons only isn't a good call.

For deadly I would suggest gloves and/or bracers and/or maybe rings or goggles.

Putting it on other slots does seem like a good adjustment to the list.



I'm still a fan of wounding weapons.

Bewildering, Maladroit, Weakening, Wounding?

Those are listed as "stat poisons".




All of the feedback is being read and there will be adjustments to different slots, as well as several missing effects added to the lists. It just takes a little time to do so.

Cleanincubus
12-07-2015, 03:38 PM
Effects will not necessarily match up to what is currently available. We are specifically trying to switch to more effects being in specific (which can be multiple) slots, as opposed to pretty much all slots.

This is a change, but there are also more effects, and named items will never be forced to adhere to this (allowing named items to be special in allowing extra flexibility in builds.)


Where they effects drop is still up for discussion, but it shouldn't be expected to match the current random loot system.

This is very unfortunate. Many, including myself, will now begin hording current items with specific effects that will no longer be available in certain slots, and likely ignore new items. I understand this is all being done to to make random loot easier to create. But no longer producing items with effects we've been accustomed to for years, seems like a huge slap in the face.

When players were asking you, the Devs, to work on Cannith Crafting and random loot, we were asking for more variety and to bring back old effects that are no longer available. Instead random items are being further limited, which is exactly the opposite of what the players have been asking for. The only improvements are the addition of more "Insightful..." effects, and more effects on 1 item, with the rest of these changes being nerfs. Seriously, I view the negative impacts as far outweighing any of the positives suggested in the OP. I'd rather see no changes made at all, if this is how things need to be. I don't see this doing much in decreasing what will still be considered vendor trash.

If this is any indication of the changes we should expect to the Cannith Crafting system, then please leave that system alone as well.

Renvar
12-07-2015, 03:39 PM
Putting it on other slots does seem like a good adjustment to the list.




Those are listed as "stat poisons".




All of the feedback is being read and there will be adjustments to different slots, as well as several missing effects added to the lists. It just takes a little time to do so.


Protection and Vitality seem to be missing. Protection is a D&D staple effect. Is it gone?

Other things that seem to be missing:

Convalesence (heal amp)
Vorpal/banishing/destruction/paralyzing/keen

Propane
12-07-2015, 03:43 PM
In order to get some polish on the effects in random loot, I thought I'd open up the discussion of what effects are dropping on which loot slot. This is obviously a pretty long list making it tougher to work with, but I wanted to open it up to player feedback before we went live with it. Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.



Can you provide provide a list for the current loot?
What is staying?
What is being removed?

Loromir
12-07-2015, 03:46 PM
All of the feedback is being read and there will be adjustments to different slots, as well as several missing effects added to the lists. It just takes a little time to do so.


Thank you for undertaking this massive effort.

I would just like to point out...that the more possible effects added to the loot gen tables....the more likely someone might find a useful item. But also, more effects in the table will reduce the chance for looting that once in a lifetime super uber item. It might actually add to the desire to run content specifically to loot chests or even better yet (for Turbine's bottom line sake) more chest re-rolls hoping for that one special item.

There is a serious opportunity for something special to come out of this.

Trillea
12-07-2015, 03:59 PM
Putting it on other slots does seem like a good adjustment to the list.

Good


Those are listed as "stat poisons".


OK, are there going to be *actual* poison damages?

All of the feedback is being read and there will be adjustments to different slots, as well as several missing effects added to the lists. It just takes a little time to do so.

Does this include caster affixes on weapons?

Responses in green

J-mann
12-07-2015, 03:59 PM
A compound system works well in a system where Prefix/Suffix and Enhancement bonus share a power pool, since it is impossible to get several good effects on an item without a compound effect.

In the new system, all of the effects can be top tier powerful at the same time. Having compound on top of that would go from being able to get 3 top tier effects to be able to get 4-6 top tier effects all at once. That is likely a power level we don't want coming out of random loot (and some of those compound names could possibly be recreated on random loot just as it is depending on what slots effects show up on).

It isn't off the table as an option completely, but it would have to be extremely carefully considered on which of those compound effects could be added to the system without blowing away all other loot.

Personally, I am ok with an exceedingly rare chance at finding a randgen item that is better than raid loot (were talking on the order of .0001% chance here), it gives me a reason to continue to look at the random gen I pick up, as opposed to now where I just vendor everything. If you cannot make me want to at least look at the special border items that drop your loot pass has failed imo. For a rand gen item to be better than raid loot it would likely need BOTH fixes to be a combination AND get the special extra fix roll, and maybe even need to land the roll for a slot.... AND it needs to be a weapon you want. Sounds more than rare enough to me....

On to effects:

deadly needs to remain a body item, sorry devs that cats out of the bag. Why on earth is speed only on boots? Especially since with your new layout boots is one of the few slots dex drops in? So dex builds now have to choose speed or their main stat? Further, every named boot item better include speed now or no one is going to wear your new named boots. Speed needs to be readded to belts, rings, and bracers as we can find now. Does doublestrike add to double shot? If not we need double shot everywhere double strike is as well.

missing effects I can see:
heal amp
deception
metals

Also will returning throwers drop again? cant recall the last time ive seen one.....

IronClan
12-07-2015, 04:05 PM
I would like to see more flexibility in what goes where, I would say that the current implementation of Cannith crafting is almost the perfect setup.

In fact if you make some "wild card" affixes that could mimic "flexible shard recipes" in Cannith crafting you're getting even more "surprise" factor from the randomness and thus more organic possibilities for something really cool but rare to be generated.

Honestly if you took Cannith crafting's system scaled it up where it left off (66 spell power, +5 enhancement bonus, Stunning 8 etc. is where it stops) and gave the appropriate range (70, 90, 120 138 150 spell power, +6 and on up to +12 enhancement bonus etc.) with updates, and then used it in your new random loot system, you would literally kill two birds with one stone.

Qhualor
12-07-2015, 04:07 PM
Eyes:

Prefix: Seeker, Spell Focuses, Concentration, Disable Device, Search, UMD, Wisdom
Suffix: Accuracy, Spell Penetrations, Insightful Spell Focuses, Alacrity, Insightful Concentration, Open Lock, Spot, Insightful UMD, Intelligence
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Spell Penetrations, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Insightful Disable Device, Insightful Search, Insightful, Spot, Insightful Wisdom
[COLOR=#008000]

I like the theme you have going here. this reminds me of the old days when if you were looking for a specific affect you knew which items it could be on. it made it easier, imo, to build a character this way. glancing through, I only see pet peeves that disrupt this theme as in the example above. Tendon Slice on goggles? I saw a few others like Seeker on boots. overall though I like whats happening here.

Qezuzu
12-07-2015, 04:15 PM
Hopefully you'll listen to the feedback on Deadly, Vorpal, etc.

What I really want is a solid yes or no answer to: will clickies possibly come back or not?

Jasparion
12-07-2015, 04:16 PM
Its good that random loot is getting looked at. Keeping things fresh makes sense. Adding new things, removing old things, etc.

But could a Dev please explain why it was so important to fix random loot ahead of named loot? It looks like a huge amount of planning has gone in to this, while 90% of named loot continues to be vendor trash.

Surely a 5 minute fix for named loot (especially old/lower level content) is adding a Red/Blue/Yellow slot to every item. And if it already has that, add a Clear slot. And dont touch the ML.

Straight away this makes the moderately bad loot better.

If you have more than 5 minutes, boost the stats so they are equal or better than mastercrafted random loot.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gauntlets_of_Ogre_Power

This is truly an iconic D&D item. But at level 9 are we really going to use a straight +4 Strength item because FLAVOUR ???

How about you make it +6 Strength with a Yellow slot. NOW we are cooking !!

Okay, so I have probably sidetracked the discussion a little, so back to the random loot.

Deadly on more than just weapons is very important. Good to see that is being looked at. But spellcasters getting element boosts and lore on weapons is surely a must-have? I havent seen any Dev comment to say that this will be happening on the new loot?

jalont
12-07-2015, 04:17 PM
Its good that random loot is getting looked at. Keeping things fresh makes sense. Adding new things, removing old things, etc.

But could a Dev please explain why it was so important to fix random loot ahead of named loot? It looks like a huge amount of planning has gone in to this, while 90% of named loot continues to be vendor trash.

Surely a 5 minute fix for named loot (especially old/lower level content) is adding a Red/Blue/Yellow slot to every item. And if it already has that, add a Clear slot. And dont touch the ML.

Straight away this makes the moderately bad loot better.

If you have more than 5 minutes, boost the stats so they are equal or better than mastercrafted random loot.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gauntlets_of_Ogre_Power

This is truly an iconic D&D item. But at level 9 are we really going to use a straight +4 Strength item because FLAVOUR ???

How about you make it +6 Strength with a Yellow slot. NOW we are cooking !!

Okay, so I have probably sidetracked the discussion a little, so back to the random loot.

Deadly on more than just weapons is very important. Good to see that is being looked at. But spellcasters getting element boosts and lore on weapons is surely a must-have? I havent seen any Dev comment to say that this will be happening on the new loot?

I think the answer to this is that named loot is never going to be "fixed". It will remain what it is.

Grailhawk
12-07-2015, 04:26 PM
Weapons:[/COLOR]

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages, Vorpal, Paralyzing, Spell Powers
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes, Spell Criticals, Insightful Spell Powers, Banishing, Smiting, Deception, Keen
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison, Spell Penetrations


Assuming Keen make there way back on to this list it would also be nice to see:
Elastic (see bow of Sinew) +1 crit multiplier on 19-20

Would also be interesting and nice to see a new effect that gives a +1 enchantment bonus to crit multiplier in the extra rare slot. Not sure if its balanced or not to do that but maybe; there are a lot of named weapons with extra crit profiles so random loot being able to match that shouldn't be out of line.

NoWorries
12-07-2015, 04:37 PM
Hopefully you'll listen to the feedback on Deadly, Vorpal, etc.

What I really want is a solid yes or no answer to: will clickies possibly come back or not?

There are no plans for clickies to show back up, at least not on this first pass of random loot.

NoWorries
12-07-2015, 04:46 PM
Deadly on more than just weapons is very important. Good to see that is being looked at. But spellcasters getting element boosts and lore on weapons is surely a must-have? I havent seen any Dev comment to say that this will be happening on the new loot?

Yes, and they have been added to the first post.

Powerhungry
12-07-2015, 04:59 PM
Several have commented on the rigidity of this system (only being able to have 'X' in 'Y' slot. Perhaps the 'rigidity' of this system will be bypassed with the revised Cannith crafting system- I.e. flexible shards allowing for stat (or whatever) distribution into other non-standard locations. Cannith crafting could also be where one might be able to acquire these http://ddowiki.com/page/Composed_weapon_affixes since Dev stated they won't really fit into the new loot system.
Or maybe I'm just too optimistic

Seljuck
12-07-2015, 05:00 PM
Minimum Level

Currently on the Live servers, the Minimum Level of an item is determined “on the fly” by its Enhancement value and other effects. Starting in Update 29, the Minimum Level of the items you see in chests will be based on the level of the dungeon itself – so a level 10 dungeon on normal would drop Minimum Level 10 random loot, and level 12 loot on Elite. Behind the scenes how these minimum levels work is different (improved) so please let us know if you see anything odd on Lamannia.



Overall, random loot changes looks good, but I don't like ML concept. This concept blocks possibility to acquire better effects at lower levels, as well as randomness of effects. If I understand correctly, we can acquire effects that are tied to prefixes, suffixes. We won't get better effects (mutations like Lacerating etc.) because they can invalidate named loot due to fact they can appear in every combination. This can lead to situation where random loot has more effects then named loot.

In my opinion, there is easy solution for this. It's called 'weighted average'.

In proposed system, every effect has their own weight. Weight will determine ML of item and list of effects, that could appear on item, even on lower level. Each level of quests, should have range of loot ML that can drop. Like quest lv 3 can drop items with ML in range of 2-4.

This solution can give opportunity to add more powerful effects to random loot without anxiety of invalidating named loot.

Example


Lacerating -> weight = 6; chance to appear = 3%
Acid 1d6 -> weight = 2; chance to appear = 15%
rare effect +0.5W -> weight = 9, chance to appear = 1.5%


3%*6*6+15%*2*2+1.5%*9*9 1,08 + 135 + 1,215
-------------------------- = ------------------ = 8,08 -> ML
6+2+9 17

Does ML 8 +0,5W Acid greatsword of lacerating is too powerful?


This solution can give opportunity to add more powerful effects to random loot without anxiety of invalidating named loot.

ps. I'm not very good at math, so I hope numbers are good. :P

ps.2 After checking numbers twice, looks like there was an error in calculations. Calculation changed to match better result.

Grailhawk
12-07-2015, 05:07 PM
Overall, random loot changes looks good, but I don't like ML concept. This concept blocks possibility to acquire better effects at lower levels, as well as randomness of effects. If I understand correctly, we can acquire effects that are tied to prefixes, suffixes. We won't get better effects (mutations like Lacerating etc.) because they can invalidate named loot due to fact they can appear in every combination. This can lead to situation where random loot has more effects then named loot.

In my opinion, there is easy solution for this. It's called 'weighted average'.

In proposed system, every effect has their own weight. Weight will determine ML of item and list of effects, that could appear on item, even on lower level. Each level of quests, should have range of loot ML that can drop. Like quest lv 3 can drop items with ML in range of 2-4.

Example:


Lacerating -> weight = 6; chance to appear = 3%
Acid 1d6 -> weight = 2; chance to appear = 15%
rare effect +0.5W -> weight = 9, chance to appear = 1.5%


3%*6+15%*2+1.5%*9 1,08 + 135 + 1,215
---------------------- = -------------------- = 8,08 -> ML
6+2+9 17


Does ML 8 +0,5W Acid greatsword of lacerating is too powerful?


This solution can give opportunity to add more powerful effects to random loot without anxiety of invalidating named loot.

ps. I'm not very good at math, so I hope numbers are good. :P

This is pretty much the system that they had previously that generated a cap ton of ML 11 Strength +3 Accuracy +3 items that no one ever wanted or used

If i understand the current proposal instead of the useless ML 11 STR +3 Accuracy +3 Item we will be getting a ML 11 STR +6 Accuracy +6 item. Which is much better and useful.

Cantor
12-07-2015, 05:16 PM
First off, very nice post.

As for Deathblock specifically, I see what you're saying. I'm just not sure how possible it would be to change the effect on the fly like that given what form the player is in.

As long as negative healing amp is only called when you have a shroud active you can just give it a super high amp to offset the absorb.
Example: 20% absorb deathblock item has 50% amp. Assuming it's multiplicative, but numbers could be tweaked. So instead of getting 100-20=80% healing, you get 80*1.5= 120%.

Kinda bandaid-y...

Maybe a solution would be activating a shroud sets neg abs = neg abs ^-1

nibel
12-07-2015, 05:21 PM
In order to get some polish on the effects in random loot, I thought I'd open up the discussion of what effects are dropping on which loot slot. This is obviously a pretty long list making it tougher to work with, but I wanted to open it up to player feedback before we went live with it. Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.

Ok, let's start scrutinizing the list. I'll start with the assumption that every effect that do not scale should be on the "Extra" category.


Armor:

Prefix: Dodge (light/cloth only), Armored Agility (medium/heavy only)
Suffix: Twilight (Reduces Arcane Spell Failure from armor), Stability
Extra: Adamantine (Metal only, provide DR equal ML*0,75), Mithral (metal only, provide extra PRR equal ML*0,375, drops one armor proficiency category), Darkleaf (Metal only, armor become non-metalic. Basically, so that druids can use randomly generated medium/heavy armors)

This provide options for extra defense on armor, and bring back armor material that everyone has asked for since U14 (plus one more option specifically for druids).


Weapons:

Prefix: Alignment Damage (Holy and such), trade Parrying to Riposte
Extra: Metalline (bypass all metal DR), Aligned (bypass all alignment DR)


Shield:

Suffix: Healing/Repair Amplification


Head:

Extra: Water Breathing (+swim?)


Eyes:

Extra: True Seeing


Bracers:

Prefix: Armor Bonus (for cloth users)
Suffix: Shield Bonus (as White Scale armor)


Rings:

Rings should be a wildcard item slot, that literally have all possible effects on its table. But that is me.


Feet:

Extra: Feather Falling (move from Suffix)


Neck:

Suffix: Wisdom (Classic Periapt of Wisdom is a neck item)


Hands:

Suffix: Arcane Casting Dexterity (http://ddowiki.com/page/Arcane_Casting_Dexterity)


Cloak:

Extra: Dusk (Scaling from 5% to 25%)


Belt:

Looks fine.

==================

Now, regarding skill bonus, can we merge some categories that have innate sinergies, and thus, benefits from having more than one single skill bonus on them?

Stealth: Hide and Move Silently (4e and 5e merged them on "Stealth")
Alertness: Spot and Listen (4e and 5e merged them on "Perception". Keeping Search out because it is a useful skill on its own)
Gadgetry: Disable Device and Open Lock (4e merged them on "Thievery", 5e on "Thieves’ tools Proficiency")
Athletics: Jump and Swim (4e merged them on "Athletics", 5e both are plain Strength rolls)
Acrobatics: Tumble and Balance (4e merged them on "Acrobatics", 5e both are plain Dexterity rolls)

RobbinB
12-07-2015, 05:27 PM
A compound system works well in a system where Prefix/Suffix and Enhancement bonus share a power pool, since it is impossible to get several good effects on an item without a compound effect.

In the new system, all of the effects can be top tier powerful at the same time. Having compound on top of that would go from being able to get 3 top tier effects to be able to get 4-6 top tier effects all at once. That is likely a power level we don't want coming out of random loot (and some of those compound names could possibly be recreated on random loot just as it is depending on what slots effects show up on).

It isn't off the table as an option completely, but it would have to be extremely carefully considered on which of those compound effects could be added to the system without blowing away all other loot.

As I've previously stated, the fixed aspect of ML versus "ix" power level is what ruins your proposed system. The system should first pick the basic category of prefix (for example) then perform a "roll" to see the quality for that category. The item ML should merely shift the probability curve in favor of better outcomes. For example, you pull a weapon and the prefix that comes up is elemental damage, fire. In that tab you can list all the possibilities in that category in increasing power from flaming (1) - flaming burst - tactical detonation - conflagrating - etc... The composite effects with a term relating to fire (eg. sun's fury) can be in that list occupying a slot commensurate with their power. Which effect comes up is then rolled randomly but higher ML of item shifts the probability slightly towards better effects. Each -ix category is then determined independently of the other 2.

In this way, an item with 3 composite effects is possible, but statistically incredibly unlikely (unless the composite effects are junk and therefor of lower category). This is what we had in the good-old-days of random loot when wop/paralyzer/vorpal were possible but very rare. There was excitement opening random chests and equipment setups were composed of a mix of both named and random items.

ThomasHunter
12-07-2015, 06:10 PM
First, I really love the thought of redoing the random loot. Very cool!

Some things that I tend to look for a lot are Search, Spot, and Disable items. Copying into Word and doing a quick search yielded the following (sad) results:

Disable - Eyes, Gloves
Search - Eyes
Spot - Eyes



I understand restricting some flexibility, but this seems like too much to me. I also understand that named items help here as well (low level gear is tough for this stuff though!). Hopefully this is at least something to consider!

The other thought that I wanted to inquire about is weapon damage. Currently, we have regular (1[d]), Paragon (1.5[d]) and Epic (2[d]). The problem is that these are quickly outclassed by a large amount. For example, creating a TF weapon or looting a weapon in TOEE and they are 5[d]!!!

I'm hoping that by "scaling" you also include additional weapon damage. If not, I'm afraid that the random weapons will remain mostly unused at the higher levels. This is sad as I really like finding a fun combination of prefixes and suffixes. It's just a bummer that it doesn't compare to building a Tier 1 TF.

Thanks for listening! I am PUMPED about this update. So much to do!!!!! With only 5 working days in the next 28, I plan on a LOT of DDO! :cool:

UurlockYgmeov
12-07-2015, 06:19 PM
Several have commented on the rigidity of this system (only being able to have 'X' in 'Y' slot. Perhaps the 'rigidity' of this system will be bypassed with the revised Cannith crafting system- I.e. flexible shards allowing for stat (or whatever) distribution into other non-standard locations. Cannith crafting could also be where one might be able to acquire these http://ddowiki.com/page/Composed_weapon_affixes since Dev stated they won't really fit into the new loot system.
Or maybe I'm just too optimistic

this is what I am thinking.

Also - what about (Thank you Guildy Alyonna): smite/disrupt/banish/vorp/paralyze etc or are these mixed in with the banes?

Glad to see the return of Deadly. :)

Morroiel
12-07-2015, 06:57 PM
I don't see orbs listed at all - is this intentional? I would think with new random lootgen - orbs could be thrown into the mix now?

Propane
12-07-2015, 07:30 PM
First, I really love the thought of redoing the random loot. Very cool!

Some things that I tend to look for a lot are Search, Spot, and Disable items. Copying into Word and doing a quick search yielded the following (sad) results:

Disable - Eyes, Gloves
Search - Eyes
Spot - Eyes




Good point - I general use rings for these and hot swap as needed (with FF, Underwater Action, etc..)

I would expect rings to be the catch-all --> allowing flexibility for the last few things to be worked in the gear set..

Jasparion
12-07-2015, 08:06 PM
I don't see orbs listed at all - is this intentional? I would think with new random lootgen - orbs could be thrown into the mix now?

Orbs with defensive capabilities like Shields would be nice. So you dont feel you need to play a Wizard with a shield so that you dont die in HE/EE content.

QuantumFX
12-07-2015, 08:53 PM
Having compound on top of that would go from being able to get 3 top tier effects to be able to get 4-6 top tier effects all at once.

Why not just make it that when a composite effect happens the weapon/item can't have an “extra” slot?

Also, is there any chance that you guys will give us modified “Burst” effects? Meaning that if you get “Flaming Burst” the base damage will be the same (or 1 tier lower) and include the classic (+1d10 fire damage per crit multiplier -1) burst damage?

Kielbasa
12-07-2015, 09:56 PM
multiple locations for false life check
multiple locations for constitution check
fortification head/bracers check (plus an augment starting at level 8)
multiple locations for primary stats check
multiple locations for resistance saves check
deadly available on non weapon slots check

luxury effects that aren't just things to beef up your hit points, saves, and damage should be easier to slot as you will no longer be looking for clean items in heroics

weapons and armor don't look particularly exciting but if cannith crafting gets some polish this next year you can save the fun effects for that

CrackedIce
12-07-2015, 10:16 PM
I liked the time when we were able to get crippling, Improved destruction, fearsome and the like on armors. It really added to the variety. Is there chance that these kind of effects could be added to the lootable as well as possible guard effects like invisibility guard, magma guard, freezing ice....?

fangblackhawk
12-07-2015, 10:17 PM
well right off the bat i hope "elemental" on wepons atleast is shorthand for fire ice acid electric, & holy light sonic bleeding spikes negative force ect,,,, or alighned metaline ..... i have guildys who swear by by "fest icyed holy "x" of metaline" loot gen weapons.... even the ESOS users with umpteen past lives

and also PLEASE don't pidgin hole stats to on spacific slots again like itwas back when ..... i am having issues with all the reallly good epic wisdom named items being on goggles.... as my cleansed con op goes there ... this goes for skill bonuses as well..... if a stat or skill can go there any being there would be easyer to work with than " i cant use really cool named item because i need the stats, skills

???? and am i understanding right that each prefix, suffix, extra can have up to 3 bonuses maying for possible 9 buffs on one item ...... if so i am clearing mules of so much ****!!!

i was seeing some pretty shineys on lamania though and am generaly in faver of these updates...

for further notes i reference an earlyer post:
Thumbs up a good start
Quote Originally Posted by NoWorries View Post
Certainly open to the option. List as many as you can think of and we can look into it.
here is what i can remember or found digging through my toons, made some odd notes and am sure i for got some or alot


low level laceraters (we have mangling and mauling at higherlevel as rare drops now i beleave still)
low level bursts
night graps ( i have a lvl 4 club with this that looks like the toee club except its a black stick)
pandimoanium
suns fury
the tyrent
the crusader
the destroyer
Virulent Poison
erosive
"abberation" (et all banes) bane < included cuz banishing dont work every where..... and you guys know this i assume
bone breaking
icy depths
impellent
incinerating
hemmorhaging
desert sand ( i have 2 different versions of thisone with firery detonation and one with improved roaring)
frozen
"spell type/school" Mastery!
metoric
divine lights
dynamo
sun (1d6 light and flaming blast as a suffix on a ml 10 axe)
bolstering (on low lvel random armour) dr and natty armour (prefix)
greater warding (on mid level random armour) spellrestance and restance (suffix)
Fiery Detonation
Debilitation
Orderly
primal ( on sheilds and armour
prisim (on sheilds and armour)
bracing (dr and naty armour)
back stabbing
destruction
Searing
Convalescent (lesser greater aswell)
windswept (armour)
stablity
nightmare
slay living
paralizing
annalating (was disitigration)
electric storm
regeneration
freezing gale
wounding weaking maldroit ect..
elemental (armour)
chaotic (has true caos and curse spewing {was maybe from were random unlisted 3rd effects were showing up})
CLICKYS of all kinds

....... and yes i have been called a hoarder and or a gear %^&* many many times..... cuz if its usefull in that one corner of that one dungeon for that one thing i prolly have it and cant find it

and over all i would say go back to the pre U19 loot gen with what you added like chance to debuff on sundering and vertigo and the like
draining and feeding are great
the new poison is nice too

edit.. intersession ward (as per my guildys request) though i would rather see it as an augment
Last edited by fangblackhawk; 12-04-2015 at 07:24 PM.

....
i do see some of these back in the list and the heal amp most of all makes me happy though even though i am not a fan of this systems pale masters neg amp should be there to some degeree aswell or a 50% pos to neg conversion even item
:)

hit_fido
12-07-2015, 11:15 PM
Several have commented on the rigidity of this system (only being able to have 'X' in 'Y' slot. Perhaps the 'rigidity' of this system will be bypassed with the revised Cannith crafting system- I.e. flexible shards allowing for stat (or whatever) distribution into other non-standard locations.

Was thinking the same thing. There should be combinations of effects that are only possibly via Cannith Crafting. And vice versa (only possible from loot gen). I hope we're not being optimistic but it's good to leave some room for that ideal situation to occur.

janave
12-08-2015, 01:54 AM
I know this thread is not really about the drop rate and drop distribution, but i think some of the compound effects could be balanced by drop rates.

- So, basically martial weapons/general clothing would come with more martial themed effects, while rings, trinkets, jewelery, etc could come with more magical themed effect. In current loot there is way too much magical of magical but generally too low tier to be enjoyable loot - hence the name "trash loot" was coined.

On weapons it would be nice to see some inherent combat style bonuses, with a low drop rate, or maybe just rare effects like +10% damage on glancing blows on THF weapons.

I think overall the chests could throw less items, and maybe some more plat vs giving us the feeling we are trashing a lot of items, then we could get most items with quality based effects like a keen weapon, which does not suggest necessarily that its maaagical, like a perma on flames sword ;)

Not sure you'll get what im trying to say :)

I personally like a cleaner approach, but more meaningful effects, rather than a "heres a 2% on a stat that wont even make a noticeable difference, ever". In other words i prefer 1 big good stat + maybe a slot + better Min levels vs 3-4 low tier stats that just bump the ml and feels seriously outleveled in anyway.

Dunklerlindwurm
12-08-2015, 02:51 AM
When i was reading that you are working on a new random loot update and recreation, i thought that you bring back the very cool compound effects that you had in the menace of the underdark update.

In this time the random loot was really good and i can not remember anyone complaining about random loot during that time.

In my opinion the best thing about it was, that you had a very tiny chance to get something really good from random loot.

So why not bring back compound effects? Even if the chance is only 0,5% per prefix and suffix? Just that you have the chance to get something really rare and awesome makes everyone look at random loot and play content with chests!

The new addition of the 3rd effect is really a great idea. But dont make it too frequent. If every second item has 3 effects it wont be anything special.

Also from your list i can see that you can set the prefix suffix and extra effect to different effects anyway. So you can just exclude the compound effects from the extra effect slot and you won't have a problem with too many effects.

Also named weapons will always be better because they all have better [+W] and often better crit profiles than any random loot weapons. So why not give random loot a tiny tiny chance to be really awesome :) ?

And sorry for bad english from germany :D

CeltEireson
12-08-2015, 03:48 AM
Could you add in +1 to crit range (not keen, bonus to natural) and separate +1 to crit.multiplier as one of the extras to weapons. Now that keen and improved critical are working as originally intended I don't thin these would be overpowered now, given that named items with these also tend to have increased base damage and a larger multiple of W than normal random epic weapons which are 2W.

cru121
12-08-2015, 03:56 AM
If you're looking for some enchantments that could appear in extras:

Weapons
Stench, Slowburst, Anti-Magic Runes, Antimagic Spike, Roar, Telekinetic, Staggering Blow
cursespewing (improved), destruction (improved)
efficient metamagic, arcane augmentation (probably not universal but school based or element based), spell focus?

Somewhere
Extra turns, action boosts, dragonmarks, songs, rages, smites
Persuasion, Exc. skills
Sacred / Hallowed / Eternal Faith / Silver Flame
Some fun! guards (not 1d4 shock)
various immunities (even obscure like web/whirlwind/lightning bolt ward...)
various absorptions (even obscure like beholder spells/ doomsphere spells / enchantment spells / petrification / magic missiles)

Robbenklopper
12-08-2015, 04:04 AM
When you´re doing Assassinate and Insightful Assassinate on Hands, you´ll be doing "Quivering" and "Insightful Quivering" for Monks, right?

mikarddo
12-08-2015, 04:13 AM
Effects will not necessarily match up to what is currently available. We are specifically trying to switch to more effects being in specific (which can be multiple) slots, as opposed to pretty much all slots.

This is a change, but there are also more effects, and named items will never be forced to adhere to this (allowing named items to be special in allowing extra flexibility in builds.)


Where they effects drop is still up for discussion, but it shouldn't be expected to match the current random loot system.

This is plainly an awful decision. Make effects appear in all (or almost all) slots instead and let the random gods decide what people get. Allow for diversity please - not the boring, restricted system you seem to suggest here.

If random loot is to be fun and useful it pretty much has to fill in the gaps when someone has equipped their named loot. That means effects need to be able to appear in many and preferably all slots - not in a tiny subset of slots which would often clash with the named loot.

Kindly reconsider your decision. I dont see anyone liking it and I dont see upside to it. Do you - you havent told us yet why its made with such large restrictions?

Avenir
12-08-2015, 04:22 AM
Hands:

Prefix: Wizardry, Spell Powers, Accuracy, Doublestrike, Spell Penetration, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Assassinate, Alacrity, Bluff, Disable Device, Open Lock, Perform, Dexterity, Strength
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Shield Bashing (chance to shield bash), Armor Piercing, Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Insightful Combat Mastery, Universal Spell Power, Universal Spell Crit, Insightful Disable Device, Heal, Intimidate, Repair, UMD, Deadly, Healing/Repair Amp

Good to see this.

janave
12-08-2015, 04:23 AM
This is plainly an awful decision. Make effects appear in all (or almost all) slots instead and let the random gods decide what people get. Allow for diversity please - not the boring, constricted system you seem to want to make here.

Deadly on weapons only would be a HUGE mistake.
Convalescence needs to be added for sure.

If random loot is to be fun and useful it pretty much has to fill in the gaps when someone has equipped their named loot. That means effects need to be able to appear in many and preferably all slots - not in a tiny subset of slots which would often clash with the named loot.

Kindly reconsider your decision. I dont see anyone liking it and I dont see upside to it. Do you?

I do like specific effects to appear on specific slots more. It is simply a more consistent system, and rare randgen should be a viable alternative to named items, not a lower tier once in a blue moon filler for that unprepared TR. :)

Crafting with flexible effects would also have much greater purpose in the game this way.

Morroiel
12-08-2015, 05:17 AM
I do like specific effects to appear on specific slots more. It is simply a more consistent system, and rare randgen should be a viable alternative to named items, not a lower tier once in a blue moon filler for that unprepared TR. :)

Crafting with flexible effects would also have much greater purpose in the game this way.

I don't remember which update it was but roughly U10-20, the devs switched the old constricted random loot gen to open up to any and all slots (w/ exception of weapons vs equipment being the only distinction). Now they (you) want to go back to that same system, which was deemed a failure. Stop running in circles. If it didn't work before it won't work now.

janave
12-08-2015, 05:27 AM
I don't remember which update it was but roughly U10-20, the devs switched the old constricted random loot gen to open up to any and all slots (w/ exception of weapons vs equipment being the only distinction). Now they (you) want to go back to that same system, which was deemed a failure. Stop running in circles. If it didn't work before it won't work now.

I dont recall it being a failure, maybe it was not perfectly meeting expectations but it still had a purpose in the game better than the current 'elemental absporption of funblock', and 'funbane weapons of greater-meh suffix'. The problem with opening up for all the slots is that you are creating a vast array of trash again, due to the sheer amount of nonsynergistic combination of effects.

Also, please guys how can someone's opinion be WRONG? :(
I guess i should attach to each my posts that its my view only.

Vhayre
12-08-2015, 05:40 AM
First off, a lot of things other posters have pointed out have been added already, would like to compliment you on communicating with us and editing the OP with player feedback.

Going through the list, seeing if there's anything I feel is still missing.



Armor:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery, Constitution
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects, Vitality, Healing/Repair Amplification
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Parrying, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Constitution
With healing/Repair amp being on armor, could you add Negative amp? It gives an option outside the 2 named items that have it and would help with the deathblock problem a little bit.
I also hope the elemental resistances/absorptions don't drop as often as they do now compared to other options. Perhaps combining them into one, instead of having a different version for each element like you have on live would fix that.

Weapons:

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages, Vorpal, Paralyzing, Spell Powers
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes, Spell Criticals, Insightful Spell Powers, Banishing, Smiting, Deception, Keen
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison, Spell Penetrations
Like other posters I really liked the compound effects, but I understand your reasoning. Could there be a way to make items generate with only one compound effect maximum? So, a weapon that rolled a compound prefix can only have a normal suffix/extra effect. That way they would come out a little more powerful than normal gear, but not strong enough to eclipse raid loot.

Shield:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects, Shield Bashing damage/Spikes, Spell Powers, Wizardry
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Parrying, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Spell Powers
I like this list, almost complete. One thing I noticed is intim/insightful intim being suffix and extra, but balance/insightful balance both being extra so mutually exclusive. Intended? Elemental stuff, same comment as on armor. Lastly, it would be nice to see spell lore on every item that can also come with spell power. Spell crit can be tricky to slot on live, whereas spell power can be slotted as an augment.

Head:

Prefix: Fortification, Wizardry, Sheltering, Insightful Incite, Concentration, Haggle, Intimidate, Listen, Intelligence
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Parrying, Accuracy, Spell Focuses, Diplomacy, Insightful Intimidate, UMD, Wisdom, Spellsight, Stunning
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Individual Resistance Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Incite, Deathblock, Insightful Concentration, Insightful Haggle, Insightful Listen, Insightful UMD, Insightful Intelligence
Wisdom and Intelligence here are suffix and prefix. On eyes they are both prefix. Is this intentional? It might make it a bit confusing for figuring out what combinations one can get, at least now we know a specific stat can only be a prefix.
I like the addition of incite as an option to several slots, my tanks thank you for this. Head is the slot where you'd expect social skills, so I would add bluff.


Eyes:

Prefix: Seeker, Spell Focuses, Concentration, Disable Device, Search, UMD, Wisdom, Intelligence
Suffix: Accuracy, Spell Penetrations, Insightful Spell Focuses, Alacrity, Insightful Concentration, Open Lock, Spot, Insightful UMD, Deadly
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Spell Penetrations, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Insightful Disable Device, Insightful Search, Insightful, Spot, Insightful Wisdom, Insightful Intelligence
Some form of true seeing, blindness immunity. Like the addition of tendon slice.


Bracers:

Prefix: Elemental Resistances ,Insightful Spell Resistances, Individual Resistance Saves, Protection, Deathblock, Strength
Suffix: Constitution, Tumble, Move Silently, Intimidate, Insightful Sheltering, Dodge Bonus, Fortification
Extra: Physical Resistances, Parrying, Sheltering, Insightful Intimidate, Perform, Insightful Strength
Missing insightful Constitution, not a lot of possible effects. Maybe add chance to shield bash like you did on gloves.

Rings:

Prefix: Physical Resistances, Wizardry, Elemental Absorptions, Spell Resistance, Spell Critical Increases, Balance, Diplomacy, Hide, Perform, Constitution, Charisma
Suffix: Dexterity, Tumble, Swim, Open Lock, Insightful Diplomacy, Bluff, Insightful Balance, Spell Powers, Assassinate, Sheltering, Protection, Insightful Individual Resist Saves, Spell Powers, False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances, Elemental Resistances, Feather Falling, Speed
Extra: Insightful Elemental Resistances, Insightful False Life, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Parrying, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Bluff, Insightful Hide, Insightful Perform, InsightfuL Constitution, Insightful Charisma
As pointed out, a lot of people use rings as a sort of wildcard item for anything they can't fit in otherwise. I would like for that option to remain open too, but I definitely understand that with all the new effects this may not practical.
It would at least be nice to keep most of the general effects available on them though, like all 6 ability scores, resist saves, deadly, accuracy, vitality, dodge

Feet:

Prefix: Dodge Bonus, Seeker, Combat Mastery, Speed, Balance, Move Silently, Tumble, Dexterity
Suffix: Strength, Guard Effects, Swim, Jump, Insightful Balance, Diversion, Sheltering, Parrying, Feather Falling
Extra: Insightful Fortification, False Life, Insightful Dodge Bonus, Insightful Seeker, Insightful Combat Mastery, Insightful Jump, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Swim, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Dexterity
Maybe add hide. It is on less items than move silently in this list

Neck:

Prefix: Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Spell Focuses, Heal, Repair, Tumble, Constitution
Suffix: Charisma, Bluff, Sheltering, False Life, Insightful Wizardry, Natural Armor Bonus, Insightful Intimidate, Spellsight
Extra: Insightful Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Insightful Heal, Insightful Repair, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Constitution
Charisma but no insightful Charisma, Insightful wizardry but no wizardry. Fine otherwise

Hands:

Prefix: Wizardry, Spell Powers, Accuracy, Doublestrike, Spell Penetration, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Assassinate, Alacrity, Bluff, Disable Device, Open Lock, Perform, Dexterity, Strength
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Shield Bashing (chance to shield bash), Armor Piercing, Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Insightful Combat Mastery, Universal Spell Power, Universal Spell Crit, Insightful Disable Device, Heal, Intimidate, Repair, UMD, Deadly, Healing/RepairNegative Amp
Extra: Insightful Dexterity, Insightful Strength, Insightful Perform, Insightful Open Lock, Insightful Bluff, Incite, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stun, Insightful Spell Penetration, Insightful Doublestrike, Insightful Accuracy, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Wizardry
Looking great

Cloak:

Prefix: Elemental Resistance, Spell Resistance, Individual Resist Saves, Diversion, Balance, Hide, Charisma, Intelligence
Suffix: Wisdom, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Dodge Bonnus, Natural Armor Bonus, Resistance Saves, Enchantment/Illusion Saves, Elemental Absorptions, Physical Resistances, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Feather Falling, Spellsight
Extra: Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Spell Resistance, Insightful Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Insightful Diversion, Insightful Balance, Insightful Hide, Insightful Charisma, Insightful Intelligence, Insightful Wisdom
Concealment maybe?

Belt:

Prefix: Spell Resistance, Dodge Bonus, Doublestrike, Move Silently, Insightful Diversion, Deathblock, Diplomacy, Physical Resistances, Constitution
Suffix: False Life, Insightful Spell Resistance, Natural Armor Bonus, Parrying, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Balance, Jump, Swim, Tumble, Strength
Extra: Insightful Constitution, Insightful Strength, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Swim, Insightful Move Silently, Assassinate, Insightful Doublestrike, Insightful Dodge Bonus, Insightful False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances
Seems fine



Some things that seem to be missing completely and other comments:
Turn undead things Would add this to head and necklace.
Underwater action Would add to boots.
Insightful spellsight Add to all items that can come with spellsight.

You are using the terms sheltering and physical resistances. Do you mean the same with both terms or is physical resistances PRR only? If it is the latter I would change it to PRR or remove the s at the end to prevent confusion. If it's the first, stick to sheltering.

Some effects are added that right now are only on named loot. PLEASE be very careful with the scaling on those, if for instance assassinate on lootgen goes up to 6 or 7 it invalidates recent end game loot, like ToEE.

That's all I got right now, hope it helps :)

GeoffWatson
12-08-2015, 05:50 AM
When you´re doing Assassinate and Insightful Assassinate on Hands, you´ll be doing "Quivering" and "Insightful Quivering" for Monks, right?

They should change Assassinate items to boost Quivering Palm as well, or maybe Combat Mastery instead.

GeoffWatson
12-08-2015, 06:02 AM
I think Rings should have a chance for everything (except some weapon abilities - "on hit" stuff).

All skills and ability scores should be available on several slots.

Armour needs to be massively improved (compared to old armour), Named armour is vastly superior. Maybe give all random armour a free "extra", with a chance of a second prefix or suffix.

Most of the combo weapons aren't needed if you add elemental damage to "Extra" for weapons. Sun's Fury was just crappy Light damage and crappy Fire damage. A Flaming weapon on the same level would have been better. Most of the other combo weapon affixes were similarly rubbish.

Loromir
12-08-2015, 06:46 AM
This is plainly an awful decision. Make effects appear in all (or almost all) slots instead and let the random gods decide what people get. Allow for diversity please - not the boring, restricted system you seem to suggest here.

If random loot is to be fun and useful it pretty much has to fill in the gaps when someone has equipped their named loot. That means effects need to be able to appear in many and preferably all slots - not in a tiny subset of slots which would often clash with the named loot.

Kindly reconsider your decision. I dont see anyone liking it and I dont see upside to it. Do you - you havent told us yet why its made with such large restrictions?



I like it.

Loromir
12-08-2015, 06:49 AM
I don't remember which update it was but roughly U10-20, the devs switched the old constricted random loot gen to open up to any and all slots (w/ exception of weapons vs equipment being the only distinction). Now they (you) want to go back to that same system, which was deemed a failure. Stop running in circles. If it didn't work before it won't work now.



The old system was NOT a failure...they screwed it up when Shadowfell came along. The old system was fine.

JOTMON
12-08-2015, 08:18 AM
In order to get some polish on the effects in random loot, I thought I'd open up the discussion of what effects are dropping on which loot slot. This is obviously a pretty long list making it tougher to work with, but I wanted to open it up to player feedback before we went live with it. Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.

So without further ado: ~ snip



Armor: MDB, Dodge, Mobility , spell agility(ASF)

Shield: spell agility (ASF)



Ever since Feather ghostbaned the loot tables, people have been asking for a return of the really cool affixes to random loot. For the weapons, we had stuff like:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Composed_weapon_affixes

For accessories we had things such as Convalescent Bracers of Parrying, armor of invulnerability, et al.

This new loot gen doesn't really look any better than the ghostbaned junk we have now. I can see that there are a few new effects added like armor piercing to weapons, but you've done nothing to bring back what people have been asking for. All I see is "insightful this" and "insightful that" and stat inflation.

If this is the system you plan on instituting with Cannith crafting, don't bother. I'd rather have the flexibility we have now.

^This..



Also.. 2 handers for casters.. they need to be as good as wielding 2 single sticks...
a combustion of fire lore (and a possible augment slot)and a corrosion of acid lore (and possible augment slot)
trumps
a thurmojunkary combustion / corrosion of a singular lore (and a possible augment slot)
The two single sticks are 1 suffix ahead and possibly a augment slot ahead.. and can skip enhancements for pigeon-holed qstaff bonuses and just select alternative straight up power boosters.

Would like to see something where orbs can be slotted onto qstaves.. that would be interesting.... or wield qstaves with an orb..(add some negative like cant use physical attacks or block...)

Flavilandile
12-08-2015, 08:21 AM
Ok,

At first glance I noticed the glaring lack of some STAT items on rings.
At second glance it got worse and I noticed lots of glaring omissions that are going to make me hoard loot from now on.

I'm going to mostly add the powers that I think should go on the slot above the lists I make, so it's not going to be exaustive.



Armor:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery, Constitution
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects, Vitality, Healing/Repair Amplification
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Parrying, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Constitution


This one is going to be a recuring one : Any Clickies ?

What about the Special Metal Armors ? ( Adamantine, Blueshine, Byeshk, Cold Iron, Darkleaf, Dwarven Iron, Feyleather, Flametouched Iron, Flesh, Leather (material type), Mithral, Planeforged Steel, Spiritcraft Leather, Spiritforged Iron )





Weapons:

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages, Vorpal, Paralyzing, Spell Powers
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes, Spell Criticals, Insightful Spell Powers, Banishing, Smiting, Deception, Keen
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison, Spell Penetrations


Disruption

What about the Special Metal/Material Weapons ? ( Adamantine, Blueshine, Bone, Byeshk, Cloth, Cold Iron, Crystal, Darkleaf, Darkwood, Densewood, Dwarven Iron, Feyleather, Flametouched Iron, Flesh, Force (material), Gem (material), Glass, Ice, Leather (material type), Light, Magesteel, Mithral, Planeforged Steel, Rust, Silver, Spiritcraft Leather, Spiritforged Iron, Steel (material), Stone, Wood? )



Shield:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects, Shield Bashing damage/Spikes, Spell Powers, Wizardry
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Parrying, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Spell Powers,





Head:

Prefix: Fortification, Wizardry, Sheltering, Insightful Incite, Concentration, Haggle, Intimidate, Listen, Intelligence
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Parrying, Accuracy, Spell Focuses, Diplomacy, Insightful Intimidate, UMD, Wisdom, Spellsight, Stunning
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Individual Resistance Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Incite, Deathblock, Insightful Concentration, Insightful Haggle, Insightful Listen, Insightful UMD, Insightful Intelligence


Clickies ?

Glaring Omission : Underwater Action

STAT : CHA, Spot, Disable Device, Pick Lock, Divine Turn Bonuses ( HD, Level, Turn Nr )



Eyes:

Prefix: Seeker, Spell Focuses, Concentration, Disable Device, Search, UMD, Wisdom, Intelligence
Suffix: Accuracy, Spell Penetrations, Insightful Spell Focuses, Alacrity, Insightful Concentration, Open Lock, Spot, Insightful UMD, Deadly
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Spell Penetrations, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Insightful Disable Device, Insightful Search, Insightful, Spot, Insightful Wisdom, Insightful Intelligence


Clickies ?

STAT : CHA, True Seeing




Bracers:

Prefix: Elemental Resistances ,Insightful Spell Resistances, Individual Resistance Saves, Protection, Deathblock, Strength
Suffix: Constitution, Tumble, Move Silently, Intimidate, Insightful Sheltering, Dodge Bonus, Fortification
Extra: Physical Resistances, Parrying, Sheltering, Insightful Intimidate, Perform, Insightful Strength



Clickies ?

Deadly, Convalescent*, STAT : DEX, Some ( relevant ones ) +Spell Powers

* IIRC Last year when we talked about Healing Amp in the PC that the changes to it were also made so you could put it back in game beyond rare named items... so do it.




Rings:

Prefix: Physical Resistances, Wizardry, Elemental Absorptions, Spell Resistance, Spell Critical Increases, Balance, Diplomacy, Hide, Perform, Constitution, Charisma
Suffix: Dexterity, Tumble, Swim, Open Lock, Insightful Diplomacy, Bluff, Insightful Balance, Spell Powers, Assassinate, Sheltering, Protection, Insightful Individual Resist Saves, Spell Powers, False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances, Elemental Resistances, Feather Falling, Speed
Extra: Insightful Elemental Resistances, Insightful False Life, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Parrying, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Bluff, Insightful Hide, Insightful Perform, Insightful Constitution, Insightful Charisma



Clickies ?

Glaring omissions : STATS : STR, INT, WIS, Underwater Action, Disarm Trap, Deathblock, +Spell Powers

Spot, Search, Move Silently.



Feet:

Prefix: Dodge Bonus, Seeker, Combat Mastery, Speed, Balance, Move Silently, Tumble, Dexterity
Suffix: Strength, Guard Effects, Swim, Jump, Insightful Balance, Diversion, Sheltering, Parrying, Feather Falling
Extra: Insightful Fortification, False Life, Insightful Dodge Bonus, Insightful Seeker, Insightful Combat Mastery, Insightful Jump, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Swim, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Dexterity



Clickies ?

Glaring omission : Feather Fall,




Neck:

Prefix: Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Spell Focuses, Heal, Repair, Tumble, Constitution
Suffix: Charisma, Bluff, Sheltering, False Life, Insightful Wizardry, Natural Armor Bonus, Insightful Intimidate, Spellsight
Extra: Insightful Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Insightful Heal, Insightful Repair, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Constitution



Clickies ?

Glaring Omission : Feather Fall, STAT : WIS, STAT : INT,
+Spell Powers, Divine Turn Bonuses ( HD, Level, Turn Nr ), Fortification,



Hands:

Prefix: Wizardry, Spell Powers, Accuracy, Doublestrike, Spell Penetration, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Assassinate, Alacrity, Bluff, Disable Device, Open Lock, Perform, Dexterity, Strength
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Shield Bashing (chance to shield bash), Armor Piercing, Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Insightful Combat Mastery, Universal Spell Power, Universal Spell Crit, Insightful Disable Device, Heal, Intimidate, Repair, UMD, Deadly, Healing/Repair Amp
Extra: Insightful Dexterity, Insightful Strength, Insightful Perform, Insightful Open Lock, Insightful Bluff, Incite, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stun, Insightful Spell Penetration, Insightful Doublestrike, Insightful Accuracy, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Wizardry



Clickies ?

Deadly,



Cloak:

Prefix: Elemental Resistance, Spell Resistance, Individual Resist Saves, Diversion, Balance, Hide, Charisma, Intelligence
Suffix: Wisdom, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Dodge Bonnus, Natural Armor Bonus, Resistance Saves, Enchantment/Illusion Saves, Elemental Absorptions, Physical Resistances, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Feather Falling, Spellsight
Extra: Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Spell Resistance, Insightful Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Insightful Diversion, Insightful Balance, Insightful Hide, Insightful Charisma, Insightful Intelligence, Insightful Wisdom



Clickies ?

Glaring Omission : Feather Fall,

Fortification,



Belt:

Prefix: Spell Resistance, Dodge Bonus, Doublestrike, Move Silently, Insightful Diversion, Deathblock, Diplomacy, Physical Resistances, Constitution
Suffix: False Life, Insightful Spell Resistance, Natural Armor Bonus, Parrying, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Balance, Jump, Swim, Tumble, Strength
Extra: Insightful Constitution, Insightful Strength, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Swim, Insightful Move Silently, Assassinate, Insightful Doublestrike, Insightful Dodge Bonus, Insightful False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances
[/QUOTE]

Clickies ?

Glaring Omission : Underwater action, Feather Fall, Fortification, STAT : DEX

Heathir
12-08-2015, 08:56 AM
With the impact prr has on the game now it would be nice to see more shields and armors with Asf on them, instead of the two single shields we have in the entire game.

Loromir
12-08-2015, 09:04 AM
Ok,




This one is going to be a recuring one : Any Clickies ?




Clickies ?



Clickies ?




Clickies ?



Clickies ?


Clickies ?



Clickies ?



Clickies ?



Clickies ?




Clickies ?




Noworries has already stated in a previous post that clickies would NOT be included on random loot.

RD2play
12-08-2015, 09:28 AM
In order to get some polish on the effects in random loot, I thought I'd open up the discussion of what effects are dropping on which loot slot. This is obviously a pretty long list making it tougher to work with, but I wanted to open it up to player feedback before we went live with it. Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.

So without further ado:

Armor:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery, Constitution
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects, Vitality, Healing/Repair Amplification
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Parrying, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful ConstitutionHere you should make 2 lists: armor[melee] and armour[caster] (maybe even more for cloth/docent) and add things like twilight, arcane sigil, wizardry, give melee Body stats and caster Mind. few ideas for extra life shield, invulnerability, stability



Weapons:

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages, Vorpal, Paralyzing, Spell Powers
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes, Spell Criticals, Insightful Spell Powers, Banishing, Smiting, Deception, Keen
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison, Spell PenetrationsSame as with armor this needs to multiple lists, weapon[melee-main], weapon[melee-off], weapon[caster], weapon[ranged], missing alignment dmg: holy, unholy, chaos, law. metal types are separate from this system or are they gone ?



Shield:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects, Shield Bashing damage/Spikes, Spell Powers, Wizardry
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Parrying, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Spell Powers,So no offensive shields then? I think you should be able to get both bashing and spiked like you can now. also a chance to get 2 guards would be very shield imo so add them to extra also?. I am missing the pally/clrc stuff sacred, hallowed, silverflame, these or a sub-set should aslo be found on armour/helm/neck/ring imo.



Head:

Prefix: Fortification, Wizardry, Sheltering, Insightful Incite, Concentration, Haggle, Intimidate, Listen, Intelligence
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Parrying, Accuracy, Spell Focuses, Diplomacy, Insightful Intimidate, UMD, Wisdom, Spellsight, Stunning
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Individual Resistance Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Incite, Deathblock, Insightful Concentration, Insightful Haggle, Insightful Listen, Insightful UMD, Insightful Intelligence


Eyes:

Prefix: Seeker, Spell Focuses, Concentration, Disable Device, Search, UMD, Wisdom, Intelligence
Suffix: Accuracy, Spell Penetrations, Insightful Spell Focuses, Alacrity, Insightful Concentration, Open Lock, Spot, Insightful UMD, Deadly
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Spell Penetrations, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Insightful Disable Device, Insightful Search, Insightful, Spot, Insightful Wisdom, Insightful Intelligence




Bracers:

Prefix: Elemental Resistances ,Insightful Spell Resistances, Individual Resistance Saves, Protection, Deathblock, Strength
Suffix: Constitution, Tumble, Move Silently, Intimidate, Insightful Sheltering, Dodge Bonus, Fortification
Extra: Physical Resistances, Parrying, Sheltering, Insightful Intimidate, Perform, Insightful Strength




Rings:

Prefix: Physical Resistances, Wizardry, Elemental Absorptions, Spell Resistance, Spell Critical Increases, Balance, Diplomacy, Hide, Perform, Constitution, Charisma
Suffix: Dexterity, Tumble, Swim, Open Lock, Insightful Diplomacy, Bluff, Insightful Balance, Spell Powers, Assassinate, Sheltering, Protection, Insightful Individual Resist Saves, Spell Powers, False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances, Elemental Resistances, Feather Falling, Speed
Extra: Insightful Elemental Resistances, Insightful False Life, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Parrying, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Bluff, Insightful Hide, Insightful Perform, InsightfuL Constitution, Insightful Charisma
Rings should be able to get everything except weapon stuff


Feet:

Prefix: Dodge Bonus, Seeker, Combat Mastery, Speed, Balance, Move Silently, Tumble, Dexterity
Suffix: Strength, Guard Effects, Swim, Jump, Insightful Balance, Diversion, Sheltering, Parrying, Feather Falling
Extra: Insightful Fortification, False Life, Insightful Dodge Bonus, Insightful Seeker, Insightful Combat Mastery, Insightful Jump, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Swim, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Dexterity




Neck:

Prefix: Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Spell Focuses, Heal, Repair, Tumble, Constitution
Suffix: Charisma, Bluff, Sheltering, False Life, Insightful Wizardry, Natural Armor Bonus, Insightful Intimidate, Spellsight
Extra: Insightful Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Insightful Heal, Insightful Repair, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Constitution




Hands:

Prefix: Wizardry, Spell Powers, Accuracy, Doublestrike, Spell Penetration, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Assassinate, Alacrity, Bluff, Disable Device, Open Lock, Perform, Dexterity, Strength
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Shield Bashing (chance to shield bash), Armor Piercing, Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Insightful Combat Mastery, Universal Spell Power, Universal Spell Crit, Insightful Disable Device, Heal, Intimidate, Repair, UMD, Deadly, Healing/Repair Amp
Extra: Insightful Dexterity, Insightful Strength, Insightful Perform, Insightful Open Lock, Insightful Bluff, Incite, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stun, Insightful Spell Penetration, Insightful Doublestrike, Insightful Accuracy, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Wizardry




Cloak:

Prefix: Elemental Resistance, Spell Resistance, Individual Resist Saves, Diversion, Balance, Hide, Charisma, Intelligence
Suffix: Wisdom, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Dodge Bonnus, Natural Armor Bonus, Resistance Saves, Enchantment/Illusion Saves, Elemental Absorptions, Physical Resistances, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Feather Falling, Spellsight
Extra: Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Spell Resistance, Insightful Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Insightful Sheltering, Insightful Diversion, Insightful Balance, Insightful Hide, Insightful Charisma, Insightful Intelligence, Insightful Wisdom




Belt:

Prefix: Spell Resistance, Dodge Bonus, Doublestrike, Move Silently, Insightful Diversion, Deathblock, Diplomacy, Physical Resistances, Constitution
Suffix: False Life, Insightful Spell Resistance, Natural Armor Bonus, Parrying, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Balance, Jump, Swim, Tumble, Strength
Extra: Insightful Constitution, Insightful Strength, Insightful Tumble, Insightful Swim, Insightful Move Silently, Assassinate, Insightful Doublestrike, Insightful Dodge Bonus, Insightful False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances

I like that not everything goes everywhere but I feel right now it is too restrictive, for me random loot has to fill the gaps left by missing named loot I have yet to obtain. for this I really liked the "fixed" prefixes and suffixes since it made planning for them possible. but as it seems their time has passed. This leads to much less flexibility imo, for instance spot and search only come on goggles now, and if you need Dex on your belt too bad. So I feel we are moving from too loose to too restrictive. (maybe I just need a table to get a better overview)

Krelar
12-08-2015, 11:06 AM
First off, very nice post.

As for Deathblock specifically, I see what you're saying. I'm just not sure how possible it would be to change the effect on the fly like that given what form the player is in.

Instead of changing the item effect would it be easier to change the enhancements themselves so that when you go into an undead form the enhancement changes the way dethblock works?

Xahtep
12-08-2015, 11:31 AM
*Snip* I like this list, almost complete. One thing I noticed is intim/insightful intim being suffix and extra, but balance/insightful balance both being extra so mutually exclusive. Intended? /Snip

On acount to this,andonly this.Intimidate its one of those skills where you want it maxed, like old ac used to work. It being both pre and sufix really makes life easier to those people who still try to buildintimidate builds for the old time´s sake.
Balance is not a esential skill to keep maxed. Maybe that is their logic (maybe not).


I think i understand your point however, and would be great if at least the "essential" (in lack of a better word) skills were all pre and suffix, like intim and included heal, spellsight, maybe repair for those who use reconstruct and perform for sonic spp (but this one may create truble with the bard´s assasinate hability).

changelingamuck
12-08-2015, 11:35 AM
Weapons:

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages, Vorpal, Paralyzing, Spell Powers
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes, Spell Criticals, Insightful Spell Powers, Banishing, Smiting, Deception, Keen
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison, Spell Penetrations


I'm still a fan of wounding weapons.

Bewildering, Maladroit, Weakening, Wounding?


Those are listed as "stat poisons".

Okay, you're still missing some kind of weapon enchantments that do poison damage (like Poison Burst) and poisonous stat damage then. So far, this kind of enchantment has taken the form of "Lesser/Greater/Virulent Strength/Dexterity/Constitution Poison" and now, "Poison I, II, III..." The current "Poison I, II, III..." system where every single tier does some poison damage and 1d4 ability damage to a random physical ability score is... in my opinion, bad because a person cannot reliably strategize with their use. Please bring back the Lesser/Greater/Virulent Strength/Dexterity/Constitution Poison type of weapon enchantments where the ability damage dealt by the poison is non-random.

The poisons that deal ability damage are not the same as the Wounding, Enfeebling, Maladroit, etc. type of ability damaging weapon enchantments even if they look like it at first glance. For example, both the "Puncturing" and "Constitution Poison, Lesser" enchantments dealt 1d6 constitution damage on critical hits. And, both the "Wounding" and "Constitution Poison, Greater" enchantments dealt 1 constitution damage on every hit.

However, these enchantment types differed in three important ways:
(1) The poison enchantments were more unique because mobs with poison immunity were immune to their effects. Consequently, they involved more thoughtfulness and flavor in their use.
(2) The poison enchantments gave weapons the poisonous weapon aura appearances instead of looking... well, plain.
(3) There haven't been any non-poison weapon enchantments that were equivalent to the Virulent Poisons which did both 1 ability damage on hit and 1d6 ability damage on critical hit.

Because of those differences, I'd argue that it's actually more important to have the poison enchantments than the wounding/enfeebling/maladroit type enchantments. What I would do is combine the old system of poison enchantments with the current one. Make it so the poison enchantments come in specific forms that do ability damage to a specific physical ability score (STR, DEX, or CON) like the old system and have them deal a small, but scaling amount of additional poison damage like the new system. The small amount of additional poison damage compensates for the fact the Wounding/Enfeebling/Maladroit type enchantments also work on poison immune mobs; so it balances them out while making them more distinct.

Relevant Wiki Links

Ability Damaged (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ability_Damaged)
Poison (http://ddowiki.com/page/Poison)
Poison (enchantment) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Poison_(enchantment))
Poison Burst (http://ddowiki.com/page/Poison_Burst)

Thank you, please don't leave poisons out! :D

patang01
12-08-2015, 12:02 PM
Putting it on other slots does seem like a good adjustment to the list.




Those are listed as "stat poisons".




All of the feedback is being read and there will be adjustments to different slots, as well as several missing effects added to the lists. It just takes a little time to do so.

I didn't see spell power and lore on weapons - is this by design? I'm glad spell power is back on items now, but I do suggest lore on shields. Most shields outside the named realm won't be used, but if it comes with lore or even spell power it adds a potential use. That is what was so nice about spell power and such showing up on rings and helmets before and shields with lore. Since that went away I haven't used a random shield (or barely helmet) once.

CeltEireson
12-08-2015, 12:07 PM
Just to reiterate a point someone mentioned earlier - whilst this is somewhat more restrictive than current the more prefixes and suffixes etc we add to the pile the smaller the chances of getting something you can use. So if we go overboard on the number the odds of you getting something that you want become very very slim.

Of course, that's balanced by the fact that if its not an option at all then you've no hope ;)

But this does need to be something that's done reasonably well from the start - if this is launched and people get wonderful shinies then the devs decide it was overpowered and take those shinies away then I think you'll see the forums explode again!

changelingamuck
12-08-2015, 12:15 PM
if this is launched and people get wonderful shinies then the devs decide it was overpowered and take those shinies away then I think you'll see the forums explode again!

Wait... the forums stopped exploding at some point in the past?

I thought their sole functions, in no particular order, were always (1) begging and (2) raging.

Mithis
12-08-2015, 12:35 PM
Personally I am not a big fan of the proposed restrictions. I have a hard enough time filling in the holes left by what the stingy (named) loot god give me.

However, if the system allowed for either:
1. Rings as wildcard (ie chance for any or most effect to appear)
2. All items have small chance for any or most effects

Then, I would find this system much more exciting. Already it has added excitement with the 3rd effect possible but it could be much more interesting with (wildcard) effects showing up in non-standard locations.

Cantor
12-08-2015, 01:42 PM
I like it more restrictive, being cookie cutter for every slot is boring. But, I do agree that a very rare chance at something off-slot would be nice.

Dreppo
12-08-2015, 02:06 PM
They should change Assassinate items to boost Quivering Palm as well, or maybe Combat Mastery instead.

Not sure if you're trying to be tongue-in-cheek. But even if you are, then for the benefit of others:

Quivering Palm already DOES benefit from Combat Mastery, and general tactics DC from enhancements, destinies, past lives etc. And because of this Quivering Palm can already reach higher DCs than Assassinate. So no, Quivering Palm does not need to benefit from Assassinate equipment on top of that.

In fact Assassinate should benefit from Combat Mastery, that is a better design that gives players extra ways to scale the DC up. As it is, they've forced themselves into rolling out more and more Assassinate equipment just to keep Assassinate remotely viable in new content. If Assassinate benefitted from Combat Mastery, then Assassinate equipment could have been kept relatively rare and special, like Epic Midnight Greetings (which is now basically trash).

Grace_ana
12-08-2015, 02:57 PM
As someone whose main is an assassin, I feel very, very strongly that assassinate should not be on random loot. At all.

Boosts to assassinate are not numerous, but that is what makes that gear special. Assassins farm out named items with assassinate on them for specifically that reason. If assassinate is also on random loot, it invalidates all those named items, as that was THE powerful thing on those items. It's kind of like when we getting damage add-ons was a big deal, and it only appeared on named loot like the revised Dream Visors. Then you guys added deadly to random loot. It made every bit of that named loot basically worthless.

While I appreciate that you are trying to toss a bone to us rogues, I don't think this is the way to do it. I'd much prefer the old, super cool prefixes show back up as people have been asking for. That benefits everyone, which is especially important on random loot that we may pass from toon to toon. I would be pretty upset if a bunch of cool named items were no longer fun and cool because of another random loot revision. It's important to also consider how powerful assassinate is. Do you guys really want to toss an easy to get boost on an instakill effect that is now easier than ever to get because you can use either int or dex for assassinate now? Watch that power creep.

SableShadow
12-08-2015, 03:38 PM
As someone whose main is an assassin, I feel very, very strongly that assassinate should not be on random loot. At all.

Boosts to assassinate are not numerous, but that is what makes that gear special. Assassins farm out named items with assassinate on them for specifically that reason. If assassinate is also on random loot, it invalidates all those named items, as that was THE powerful thing on those items. It's kind of like when we getting damage add-ons was a big deal, and it only appeared on named loot like the revised Dream Visors. Then you guys added deadly to random loot. It made every bit of that named loot basically worthless.

While I appreciate that you are trying to toss a bone to us rogues, I don't think this is the way to do it. I'd much prefer the old, super cool prefixes show back up as people have been asking for. That benefits everyone, which is especially important on random loot that we may pass from toon to toon. I would be pretty upset if a bunch of cool named items were no longer fun and cool because of another random loot revision. It's important to also consider how powerful assassinate is. Do you guys really want to toss an easy to get boost on an instakill effect that is now easier than ever to get because you can use either int or dex for assassinate now? Watch that power creep.

I got caught up in the shinies; I feel these are very good points.

PsychoBlonde
12-08-2015, 03:46 PM
My suggestions:

Armor: Should include Hide and Doublestrike/Doubleshot. I'd like to see a specialty effect that was armor only and BOTH Hide AND Move Silently, maybe something like "Stealthy". Would also like to see Concentration, Jump, Tumble, and Swim added to possibilities, at least for lighter armors.

Weapons: You forgot Disruption, Spell Lore, and +School DC there, bucko. And what about efficient (spell feat)?

Shields: Would like to see more spell power/spell lore/+school DC. Half the caster types in the game can wear armor and use shields y'know--all of them, if they spec for it. There's no reason why shields should be so deficient in caster boosties. Move silently makes no sense on a shield, but Diplomacy and Bluff might, along with Concentration.

Head: Int as a prefix and Wis as a suffix? Interesting. I notice there's no Insight Wis on this. Should be. I'd also suggest creating a specialty bonus that is both search and spot together.

Eyes: Wis is a prefix here? Why is insight UMD a regular suffix?

Bracers: Seems okay.

Rings: +spellpower, spell focus, spell penetration plz!!!!!

Boots: Seems okay.

Neck: Why no insight cha?

Hands: looks okay

Cloak: Wizardry missing. Would suggest also adding Spell focus, spell penetration, and spell lore as possibilities. Not enough slots with caster boosties!

Belt: Suggest adding vitality as a possible bonus.

I'd like to see the unusual bonuses get some things like doubled skills (Heal And Repair) (Spot and Search) (Hide and Move Silently) (Jump and Tumble) (Balance and Swim). And also stuff like Elemental Energy (unless that's the same as Insightful False Life) and Elemental Power (Insightful wizardry?).

Maybe also a very small chance to get Exceptional (Stat) skills?

Livmo
12-08-2015, 04:43 PM
In order to get some polish on the effects in random loot, I thought I'd open up the discussion of what effects are dropping on which loot slot. This is obviously a pretty long list making it tougher to work with, but I wanted to open it up to player feedback before we went live with it. Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.

So without further ado:

Armor:

Prefix: Fortification, Physical Resistances, Elemental Absorption, Spell Resistance, Combat Mastery, Constitution
Suffix: Elemental Resistances, Insightful Physical Resistances, False Life, Insightful Combat Mastery, Intimidate, Move Silently, Guard Effects, Vitality, Healing/Repair Amplification
Extra: Insightful Fortification, Insightful Elemental Resistances, Parrying, Deathblock, Balance, Insightful Balance, Insightful Intimidate, Insightful Move Silently, Insightful Constitution

Weapons:

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages, Vorpal, Paralyzing, Spell Powers
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes, Spell Criticals, Insightful Spell Powers, Banishing, Smiting, Deception, Keen
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison, Spell Penetrations

Hands:

Prefix: Wizardry, Spell Powers, Accuracy, Doublestrike, Spell Penetration, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Assassinate, Alacrity, Bluff, Disable Device, Open Lock, Perform, Dexterity, Strength
Suffix: Resistance Saves, Shield Bashing (chance to shield bash), Armor Piercing, Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Insightful Combat Mastery, Universal Spell Power, Universal Spell Crit, Insightful Disable Device, Heal, Intimidate, Repair, UMD, Deadly, Healing/Repair Amp
Extra: Insightful Dexterity, Insightful Strength, Insightful Perform, Insightful Open Lock, Insightful Bluff, Incite, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stun, Insightful Spell Penetration, Insightful Doublestrike, Insightful Accuracy, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Wizardry


Please add Doubleshot to these items for repeating crossbow users.

I don't like having my options limited, because I'm a ranged build. I feel that Doubleshot is being left off the table here and I would like to see more sources of it in-game on items. As it is now, I feel pressured to have the Epic Past Life Feat of Doubleshot active from the Primal Sphere and I would to rather run a different active epic past life feat like Energy Criticals from Arcane or Colors of the Queen.

DDO Wiki on Doubelshot, http://ddowiki.com/page/Doubleshot


Update 28 Patch 1 changes:

Manyshot and Ten Thousand Stars no longer reduce your doubleshot chance.
Repeating crossbows now have 1/3rd the chance for Doubleshot.
Doubleshot can now "wrap" and cause a third or fourth shot if it goes above 100%.


As a repeating crossbow user I would like more sources of Doubleshot on items please and TY!

geoffhanna
12-08-2015, 04:43 PM
Will there be augment slots?

This seems fine. A logical clean up. But that is all, just a cleanup, and one that leaves out some of the charm of the old systems.

Some things are missing:


race restrictions (which have been missing for awhile but were fun when they existed)
different materials (mithril, byeshk, darkwood, etc) and their effects on armors, shields, and on weapons
masterful and wonderful craftsmanship (maybe I just missed it?)


The new items will fill roles and be usable. But I will miss the anticipation of scanning items to see if one is special.

SirValentine
12-08-2015, 05:46 PM
In order to get some polish on the effects in random loot, I thought I'd open up the discussion of what effects are dropping on which loot slot. This is obviously a pretty long list making it tougher to work with, but I wanted to open it up to player feedback before we went live with it. Feel free to mention anything that feels wrong, effects that feel under-represented, and of course effects that are missing.


Forget under-represented. How about over-represented?

Right now, we get our Insightful bonuses from named loot. Now they're going to be everywhere? You're about to destroy the entire point of almost all the existing named loot in the game with this proposal.

Is random loot, on live today, all it could be? Maybe not. But it's not such a big issue that you should wipe out everything else in a hurry to fix it.

Proposals are vastly over-powered. It's pointless power-creep that invalidates tons of what players have already done, and continues to trivialize existing content. How is getting a bonus you'd currently only get on ML 22 named loot, instead getting it on ML 10 random loot, supposed to be good for the game?

Toss this entire proposal and start over.

Astoroth
12-08-2015, 05:49 PM
Weapons:[/COLOR]

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages, Vorpal, Paralyzing, Spell Powers
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes, Spell Criticals, Insightful Spell Powers, Banishing, Smiting, Deception, Keen
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison, Spell Penetrations



Looks like you are trying to move some casting buffs off of weapons and onto gloves? And Deadly off items and onto weapons?

This isn't a good idea, sort of messes with loot as its been since the game as been active. It will make current random drops that have the standard stuff very valuable and create a weird black market like there is/was for heal amp items. Sure deadly is pretty common on items right now. But putting it on weapons will just make those weapons the new ghostbane deception weapons people throw away now. Any new gear need to fits into peoples gear sets to be useful, just flipping it all around for no reason makes little sense. Do you really want to be the guy they make fun of for deadly weapons? People want as much damage effects as they can have, they don't want seeker and deadly on weapons. If they already have items that have deadly and seeker not on a weapon.

Screwing with buff locations isn't a good way to differentiate your loot pass from Feather's. There is going to be huge unrest after the wow factor wears off, if you go forward with this. You need to be worrying about being the deadly weapon guy.

Ryethiel
12-08-2015, 06:47 PM
I'm actually a bit bummed out on what effects shows up where. One example is that I personally had my gear layed out in such a way that from lvl 1-23, Deadly was on my Helmet... Plus, Repair Amp on Gloves. I'm envisioning that I'm not gonna want it there. And most certainly not on my armor.

Hopefully, Cannith Crafting will solve all this with lots of new FLEXIBLE shards. ;)

Immortallus
12-08-2015, 10:26 PM
All I'm seeing is Healing/Repair Amplification on items.





Where is the Negative Amplification???

PhotoRob
12-09-2015, 11:20 AM
Looking over the lists (and making some charts for easier analysis...), I notice that Underwater Action isn't included anywhere. Are we expected to hold our breath in the future? :)

You don't have anything for trinkets, is this intentional?

As of this time, I see you've expanded possible slots for some effects, although I think they could be expanded a bit more (ie: deadly, seeker, and speed all appear on just 2 locations that I can see). I would suggest that each effect should appear on at least 3 different locations.

Rings seem severely underutilized. Rings have always been sort of a wildcard item - they should be able to hold any stat, any skill, and probably any of the other effects.

Overall, it still feels overly restrictive. We are dealing with magic here - there really isn't any rational or logical reason why any effect would be prohibited from any particular spot.

ComicRelief
12-09-2015, 01:04 PM
Can we bring back Blueshine for armor? I've not seen it since...

;)

maddong
12-09-2015, 02:27 PM
Bring back convalescent of parrying bracers please.

Kace
12-09-2015, 03:25 PM
I like the more restricted slots, it adds a niche for crafting (presumably) and named loot getting around it. I do fondly remember the combined named effects. I wouldn't mind seeing them back as some kind of 'jackpot' roll, throw a different border on 'em. It would be tough to control the power relative to named weapons, but I guess I wouldn't mind ceding that one slot to the lottery.

Also my favorite:
Insightful Incite

PsychoBlonde
12-09-2015, 03:58 PM
Bring back convalescent of parrying bracers please.

There's healing amp on the gloves list.

RD2play
12-09-2015, 05:54 PM
There's healing amp on the gloves list.

Taking a better look at the skills distribution I noticed some skills to come in 3(+) spots where some only appear in one item slot. IMO skills should not be among the hardest to find and slot, as they are most of the time secondary choices. Some should be a bit more rare like UMD but that shows up in 3 spots!

Also I feel the RING slot should be able to have any skill.

I will name all skills here (their slots), and on what other slot I would think they could fit.

Balance - (boots, belt, cloak, ring) - bracer
Bluff - (ring, neck, gloves) - helm
Concentration - (goggles, helm) - belt, neck
Diplomacy - (belt, ring) - cloak, neck
Disable Device (goggles, gloves) - belt
Haggle - (helm) - cloak, gloves
Heal - (neck, gloves) - bracer, maybe cloak
Hide - (cloak, ring) - belt, bracer
Intimidate - (glove, bracer, helm) - neck
Jump - (boots, belt) - cloak, bracer
Listen - (helm) - neck, goggles
Move Silent - (boots, belt, bracer) - cloak
Open Lock - (ring, goggles, gloves) - belt
Preform - (ring, gloves, bracer) - boots, cloak
Repair - (neck, gloves) - goggles, bracer
Search - (goggles) - neck, helm
Spellcraft - (cloak, helm) - neck, gloves
Spot - (goggles) - neck, helm
Swim - (boots, belt, ring) - Braces, goggles
Tumble - (boots, belt, ring, neck, bracer)
UMD - don't think this should be found on random loot at all since item invalidation, but if it has o be maybe only as an extra.

maddong
12-09-2015, 06:01 PM
There's healing amp on the gloves list.

I have my bracers to stack with my gloves and cloak. Everyone should have the same courtesy not just people that hoarded pre ghost baned items.

Kaylenn
12-09-2015, 11:42 PM
1st - looking good!

How does construction material work? separate chance to get Adamantine, Blueshine, Bone, Byeshk, Cloth, Cold Iron, Crystal, Darkleaf, Darkwood, Densewood, Dwarven Iron, Feyleather, Flametouched Iron, Flesh, Force (material), Gem (material), Glass, Ice, Leather (material type), Light, Magesteel, Mithral, Planeforged Steel, Rust, Silver, Spiritcraft Leather, Spiritforged Iron, Steel (material), Stone, Wood?

What about alignment breakers, dr breakers, metalline?

Clickes (including exp retreat, grease, fog, feather falling, spell power, etc)


Armor:
missing Effects: material, ASF reduction (maybe as extra) clickies?

Weapons:
material, Spell casting, Clickies?

Spellcasting Staves should have 2x the stuff.

Shield:
material, ASF reduction, Spell casting, clickies?

Head:
DR - insightful DR, exceptional DR clickies?

Eyes:
Insightful Open Lock, clickies?

Extra: True Seeing as a clickie (same duration as haste)

Bracers:
Healing Amp, Spell casting , clickies?

Rings:
Speed, Blur, Displacement, deathblock, deadly, feather falling, clickies

Feet:
feather falling, clickies

Neck:
turn undead (+HD, +turns per rest, + level), clickies

Hands:
Prefix: Double shot, Open Lock
Extra: Insightful Doubleshot, Clickies

Cloak:
why is cha and int a prefix and wis a suffix?
feather falling, Heightened Awareness and clickies.

Belt:
Yep, you guessed it, clickies.


I agree with many of the things in this post. Especially the need for materials, though not nearly as many as were listed here. Mostly Adamantine and Mithral for armors and all the types that help you break certain DR on weapons.

I also support the point that deadly on just weapons is going to be a hugely lame thing, that will change the gear situation for melee drasticly.

I also feel a bit of fear of trying to get all my stat items to fit in with the named items I want when stats are only available on a couple types of items. If I have wickedly awesome named gear for all the slots where a stat is available, then I'll have to wonder if I should just drop that necessary stat completely, which would totally be miserable.

On that same note, I second what someone else said and I believe it would add reasonably to the flexibility to have all stats available on rings. I believe this was a thing before at some point also, and I like it. Rings should be versatile, especially since you get two of them. It helps to fill out any gaps in your gear and help keep fitting everything in from being really tricky.

I like that you are trying to simplify things, and I think this could help a lot. BUT please really really really look at all the feedback and make sure that you do everything you need to make this work right. Add any effect that you get multiple people suggesting, unless you feel it will throw the game completely out of whack. Please take your time and do things right, because what you have posted really looks like it needs a lot of work still. Good luck and keep this game the greatest game around!!

sirgog
12-09-2015, 11:59 PM
There are no plans for clickies to show back up, at least not on this first pass of random loot.

Then delay the pass until this glaring oversight is fixed.

Don't half-do this. We saw how bad that was for the game last time, with the Great Ghostbaning.

1Soulless1
12-10-2015, 01:49 AM
Then delay the pass until this glaring oversight is fixed.

Don't half-do this. We saw how bad that was for the game last time, with the Great Ghostbaning.


This 1000 times this. Bring clickes back. Bring back the compound weapons. WE LIKED THEM. It was exciting to look in a chest after U14 dropped. We didn't like that feather nerfed all of our old epic gear, but random loot gen was in a good place at the time.

After the great ghostbaning most of the time random loot is just vendor trash. This has the potential the be more of the same. I know that this is going to come to pass, I know you are only going to give us token lip service with the promise that we might look into other things soon™. Please don't soon™ this. Please do it right.

geoffhanna
12-10-2015, 07:18 AM
A compound system works well in a system where Prefix/Suffix and Enhancement bonus share a power pool, since it is impossible to get several good effects on an item without a compound effect.

In the new system, all of the effects can be top tier powerful at the same time. Having compound on top of that would go from being able to get 3 top tier effects to be able to get 4-6 top tier effects all at once. That is likely a power level we don't want coming out of random loot (and some of those compound names could possibly be recreated on random loot just as it is depending on what slots effects show up on).

It isn't off the table as an option completely, but it would have to be extremely carefully considered on which of those compound effects could be added to the system without blowing away all other loot.

I am disappoint. Make it rare. Make it super rare. But give us something to seek. I want there to be a (tiny, tiny) chance of getting something great in every chest. Compound effects are exactly awesome, and make me look at every end reward and loot list. Because maybe, just maybe, I scored!

I never have. But I sure wish I could score in the future.

RD2play
12-10-2015, 07:58 AM
I am disappoint. Make it rare. Make it super rare. But give us something to seek. I want there to be a (tiny, tiny) chance of getting something great in every chest. Compound effects are exactly awesome, and make me look at every end reward and loot list. Because maybe, just maybe, I scored!

I never have. But I sure wish I could score in the future.

Yeah I realy love my Bta no ml +1 great axe of lacerating with festival icy burst :)

So I understand having a chance at 3 special effects on one item would be crazy good, but what if these compound effects can only show up in the extra slot for instance?

Iriale
12-10-2015, 09:10 AM
Deadly on items, please. A lot of named weapons don't have deadly.

Where is potency?? And spell mastery on epics? Add too metamagic efficiency and spell efficiency. Casters are always screwed with this dev team!

NEGATIVE, POSITIVE and REPAIR healing amplification ON ITEMS too, please. A lot of named armors don't have these stats. And don't forget negative!!


Weapons:

Prefix: Parrying, Seeker, Armor Piercing, Alacrity, Elemental Damages, Vorpal, Paralyzing, Spell Powers
Suffix: Deadly, Doublestrike, Vertigo, Shatter, Stunning, Tendon Slice, Assassinate, Incite, Diversion, Elemental Critical Damage, Creature Banes, Spell Criticals, Insightful Spell Powers, Banishing, Smiting, Deception, Keen
Extra: Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison, Spell Penetrations
What? ONE extra stat caster and NINE extra melee stats? Add more caster stats! Casters need more stats than melees! Add Insightful DC spell, Insightful spellpower/lores, potency, spell mastery and metamagic efficiency and spell efficiency as extras! The extras are especially suitable for adding spell mastery (something much needed in epic-- the difference between DC primary school and the others is CRAZY) and spell potency (which is necessary in epic and heroic) Insightful Spell Powers perhaps should be an extra, but ok in suffix too.

Can we regain the lacerating effect?

On heroics I always use the trapping gear (spot, search, disable) on rings. It's easy to swap a ring. Why not these skills on rings?

If melees get doublestrike as candies, why not too energy damage on spellcasting as the lantern ring? Give something cool to casters too!

Insightful swim is useless. Get rid it!

And the slots for augments? They will continue to exist or disappear? I hope no!

Get rid deathblock absortion effects, return to old deathblock effect. And when we will get light absortion?

memloch
12-10-2015, 10:31 AM
I have not read the full thread as there is a lot to read. If this has been asked then Sorry about that. My 2 concerns are:

1. In the old system it seems to have been either an item was created for a magic user, a melee, or a mixture (though rarer). With the new system if a club for example gets a spell power is there a higher chance that the other ability will also be magic related or should we all hold on to whatever spell power items we have now?

2. If my memory is correct thaumaturgy staffs were created because everyone just used 2 weapons as you could have more abilities slotted than if you just had a staff. Will this new loot system be putting an end to the staff wielding mage?

Iriale
12-11-2015, 05:13 AM
I have not read the full thread as there is a lot to read. If this has been asked then Sorry about that. My 2 concerns are:

1. In the old system it seems to have been either an item was created for a magic user, a melee, or a mixture (though rarer). With the new system if a club for example gets a spell power is there a higher chance that the other ability will also be magic related or should we all hold on to whatever spell power items we have now?

2. If my memory is correct thaumaturgy staffs were created because everyone just used 2 weapons as you could have more abilities slotted than if you just had a staff. Will this new loot system be putting an end to the staff wielding mage?
This is a problem, yes. There are more effects for melees than for casters (nothing new with this dev team who love weapon users and hate magic users) and finding a whole useful magical item will be more difficult than finding a whole useful melee item.

I hope that casters staffs will receive some love; they are an iconic in fantasy and D&D. In fact, at the present time staffs are worse than 2 scepters, but decent.

pelaaja
12-12-2015, 03:51 AM
It could be better. A lot better.

Ever since lootgen was ghostbaned, the community has asked composed affixes back. So what if they don't scale well? Slap some increases from melee/ranged power and you're good to go with those or something. So why not have them back? Maybe with some other special affixes which were added later to the game, like Cloudburst, Frostbite or Nightmares.

Another one which some people might like are very rare changes to weapon stats, like expanded critical threat or damage multiplier, or even a weapon die (1d10 instead of 1d8 on longswords).

RD2play
12-12-2015, 07:26 AM
I am not seeing sneak attack or even insight sneak attack (ambushing) anywhere should be on weapon/goggles/hands

edit: also not seeing underwater action anywhere: goggles/helm/feet

sudzz
12-12-2015, 07:39 AM
Looks solid at a quick glance.

Deadly moved only to weapons? This might be unwelcome for some, altho i can see why that effect would be dropped from gear.

Double strike could appear on shields i guess, it might be desireable if the %s scale better than now.

Oh, what about trinkets? or the wondrous system is not part of the rand loot ?

Insightful Spell Resistances - is this SR or saves?

Actually, seeker on boots is a little weird, maybe swap with hands <-> vertigo ?

Deadly is listed as a suffix on eyes so not not just on weapons?

LightBear
12-13-2015, 01:29 PM
Rings:

Prefix: Physical Resistances, Wizardry, Elemental Absorptions, Spell Resistance, Spell Critical Increases, Balance, Diplomacy, Hide, Perform, Constitution, Charisma
Suffix: Dexterity, Tumble, Swim, Open Lock, Insightful Diplomacy, Bluff, Insightful Balance, Spell Powers, Assassinate, Sheltering, Protection, Insightful Individual Resist Saves, Spell Powers, False Life, Insightful Physical Resistances, Elemental Resistances, Feather Falling, Speed
Extra: Insightful Elemental Resistances, Insightful False Life, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Spell Resistance, Enchantment\Illusion Saves, Parrying, Insightful Spell Power, Insightful Bluff, Insightful Hide, Insightful Perform, InsightfuL Constitution, Insightful Charisma


Looks like you've metioned the (Insightful) spell powers twice, does this mean we're twice as likely to see these effects on items? ;)
Also the wording of Spell Critical "Increases" is different on the rings than it is on other items.

silinteresting
12-14-2015, 07:27 AM
from what i read in the opening post why is wisdom only on one piece of equipment?

from this is everyone going to be slotting there wisdom item in the eye slot this has
to be wrong dosn't it?.

concerned friend sil :)

RD2play
12-14-2015, 07:42 AM
from what i read in the opening post why is wisdom only on one piece of equipment?

from this is everyone going to be slotting there wisdom item in the eye slot this has
to be wrong dosn't it?.

concerned friend sil :)

Wisdom will come on helm and cloak also, they can now drop as both pref and suf on different items.

Most stats are on 3 items, and STR and CON are on 4

STR - Boots, Belt, Gloves, Bracer
DEX - Boots, Ring, Gloves
CON - Belt, Ring, Neck, Bracer (armor)
INT - Cloak, Goggles, Helm
WIS - Cloak, Goggles, Helm
CHA - Cloak, Ring, Neck

I do still think this system is overly restrictive, especially considering skills and base stats. I'd rather see BODY on Boots, Belts, Gloves, Bracer, and MIND on Helm, Neck, Goggles, Cloak. So the Ran-Gen can be useful to fill-in open gear slots left by your named gear.

silinteresting
12-14-2015, 07:51 AM
Wisdom will come on helm and cloak also, they can now drop as both pref and suf on different items.

Most stats are on 3 items, and STR and CON are on 4

STR - Boots, Belt, Gloves, Bracer
DEX - Boots, Ring, Gloves
CON - Belt, Ring, Neck, Bracer (armor)
INT - Cloak, Goggles, Helm
WIS - Cloak, Goggles, Helm
CHA - Cloak, Ring, Neck

I do still think this system is overly restrictive, especially considering skills and base stats. I'd rather see BODY on Boots, Belts, Gloves, Bracer, and MIND on Helm, Neck, Goggles, Cloak. So the Ran-Gen can be useful to fill-in open gear slots left by your named gear.

oh i guess i need more coffee.......

thankyou for posting this it will teach me to not read then write things with
my first coffee....... must wake up first .

your friend sil :)

Natashaelle
12-15-2015, 02:59 PM
Bring back the compound weapons. WE LIKED THEM. It was exciting to look in a chest after U14 dropped.

This, this, this, and more this.

Yes of course it will require some extra work to balance them back in, and yes it's more important to establish the basics well enough before this sort of detail work -- but I continue to be saddened, frustrated, annoyed, and just plain overall miffed that "of the Rebel" is still AWOL

If we can't have our cool stuff because of artificial design abstractions, then it's the abstractions that are wrong, not the cool.

And where has our random mithral armour vanished off to anyway ? Taking away mithral in the very same Update that killed its basic damage avoidance advantage was pretty incoherent.

And I can't help but be unenthusiastic about the current trend of continual homogenisation and simplification. It just makes everything more boring.

Ellihor
12-28-2015, 08:27 AM
Do the individual saves stack with resistance?