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Wanesa
12-04-2015, 05:48 AM
Recently I have been kicked out from the party (actually i left by me own choice , but leader recommended to me to do it), because I confessed that my toon Azaxe as Sorc don't have the Quicken feat. Citation: "You are playing Sorc without Quicken, Really, really?..."

My first toon was the Sorc until level 17. My second toon was the Sorc too until level 25 then she TRed. My third toon is also the Sorc and she is currently on third epic life (2x ER).

None of these Sorcerers had Quicken feat. I remember times, when Toughness was must have feat. I appreciate that this game has many alternatives how to play it. So why "must feats" requirements? Why quicken? Sorcerer is the fastest caster in the game. Only benefit from the Quicken is to remove possibility of an interruption. The chance of the interruption is still very low, because casting really fast. High concentration also helps. So for me, Quicken is waste of the feat slot.

My favorite feats on the Sorcerer are: Dragonmarks (because I am playing with Halflings - for healing), Maximize, Enlarge (Shocking Grasps, Electric Loop, Irresistible Otto), Heighten, Evoc Focus, Greater Evoc Focus, Force of Personality for saves. At the epic level with the Cocoon from the EDs, I can swap Dragonmarks for Empower.
I have Concentration 54+. It does mean, that occasionally my caster is interrupted due an incoming damage, but this isn't big issue, I can live with it. To avoid the damage complete is the goal.

Anyone has also experience with requirements to "must have" feats?

kyioku
12-04-2015, 06:11 AM
I used to play a sorcerer long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, so my knowledge may not be relevant, however from what I've observed Maximize is now pretty much a must for anything using any SLA's which can be metamagic'ed, so I suppose that this could greatly benefit a Sorcerer, which apart from SLAs like Lightning or Acid Blast have plenty of SP to play with, and since enhancements allow us to reduce the SP cost for metamagic slightly, I'd say it's pretty worth to get both empower and maximize for Sorcerer for maximum dps increase.

I think that feat also depend on your build, I think that evocation focus is not worth it for an Ice Savant since Polar Ray has no saving throw, while Air Savant may get more out of it (not sure whether +2 is worth two feat slots on heroic levels though, not sure how it looks on Epic)

giftie
12-04-2015, 06:39 AM
I'd consider Quicken, Empower, Maximize, Heighten and SF: Evocation required feats. Enlarge is nice if you can fit it, but lower priority. Halfling DM should be replaced as soon you get access to Cocoon or if you run in Exalted Angel (which is not a bad idea, though if this is "just" a third life build you probably don't have the fate points to twist all of Energy Burst, Evocation Specialization and Precise Evocation).

Force of Personality can largely be ignored if you can fit Freedom of Movement (e.g. Orcish Privateer's Boots). (Deathblock should be a given, and Protection from Evil is a Sorc spell.)

If you do have PL: Wiz, that is much more useful than Greater Evoc Focus (but you still need Evoc Focus for twist/s).

FranOhmsford
12-04-2015, 06:46 AM
Recently I have been kicked out from the party (actually i left by me own choice , but leader recommended to me to do it), because I confessed that my toon Azaxe as Sorc don't have the Quicken feat. Citation: "You are playing Sorc without Quicken, Really, really?..."

My first toon was the Sorc until level 17. My second toon was the Sorc too until level 25 then she TRed. My third toon is also the Sorc and she is currently on third epic life (2x ER).

None of these Sorcerers had Quicken feat. I remember times, when Toughness was must have feat. I appreciate that this game has many alternatives how to play it. So why "must feats" requirements? Why quicken? Sorcerer is the fastest caster in the game. Only benefit from the Quicken is to remove possibility of an interruption. The chance of the interruption is still very low, because casting really fast. High concentration also helps. So for me, Quicken is waste of the feat slot.

My favorite feats on the Sorcerer are: Dragonmarks (because I am playing with Halflings - for healing), Maximize, Enlarge (Shocking Grasps, Electric Loop, Irresistible Otto), Heighten, Evoc Focus, Greater Evoc Focus, Force of Personality for saves. At the epic level with the Cocoon from the EDs, I can swap Dragonmarks for Empower.
I have Concentration 54+. It does mean, that occasionally my caster is interrupted due an incoming damage, but this isn't big issue, I can live with it. To avoid the damage complete is the goal.

Anyone has also experience with requirements to "must have" feats?

The only reasons to take Quicken on a Sorc are Recon {You're a Halfling so that's no problem} and Disco Ball {Because it's super slow without Quicken}.

Do you use Disco Ball much or at all?

If so - Take Quicken and see the difference.

Wanesa
12-04-2015, 07:07 AM
The only reasons to take Quicken on a Sorc are Recon {You're a Halfling so that's no problem} and Disco Ball {Because it's super slow without Quicken}.

Do you use Disco Ball much or at all?

If so - Take Quicken and see the difference.


You are right, he was Warforged :)

Disco Ball is Enchantment, and I have very poor DC on Enchantment. So I am using Otto's Irresistible Dance in face-to-face fight. Trying to max damage, not CC (only CC spells for me are Sonic Blast and Electric Loop)

About FoP Feat. The first epic live was about massively using The Harpers Pin or death due Hold Person. After ER I tried FoP. I have experience, that FoP can reduce number of situations when trash caster can stop me by some Enchantment (I have also Enchantment save item +6). Yes, I know that such feat is very expensive :)

Vanhooger
12-04-2015, 09:07 AM
Well, quicken it's nice to have especially if you run EE, but not a must have as it is for wizards.

giftie
12-04-2015, 09:29 AM
About FoP Feat. The first epic live was about massively using The Harpers Pin or death due Hold Person. After ER I tried FoP. I have experience, that FoP can reduce number of situations when trash caster can stop me by some Enchantment (I have also Enchantment save item +6). Yes, I know that such feat is very expensive :)

Freedom of Movement protects against Hold spells. It would still leave you vulnerable up to level 24 (unless you have Kundarak boots), but after that I'd consider trying to fit in 3BC boots and swapping FoP for something else.

unbongwah
12-04-2015, 10:00 AM
Only benefit from the Quicken is to remove possibility of an interruption. The chance of the interruption is still very low, because casting really fast. High concentration also helps.
Low chance of failure != zero chance of failure. Especially in EEs.

That said, the party leader was a bit of a jerk for kicking you out before you had a chance to prove whether you could hold your own. Particularly since SLAs don't need Concentration checks.

I'd consider Quicken, Empower, Maximize, Heighten and SF: Evocation required feats.
This is my must-have list for any traditional Evo caster build too, not just sorcs.

Force of Personality can largely be ignored if you can fit Freedom of Movement (e.g. Orcish Privateer's Boots).
FoM doesn't protect against discoballs. Not saying it's worth a feat slot just to protect against them, but something to bear in mind.

mobrien316
12-04-2015, 04:27 PM
BTW... Anyone who kicks you out of a group because you don't have a particular feat is very likely someone you did not want to group with anyway.

maverique82
12-20-2015, 01:13 PM
What the other players said above is true. Both for useful feats and for that other player kicking you out of a party. The only good thing he did was save you any further grief in a quest when the purpose of a a game is for fun. I have primarily played casters and my favorite is my sorc, which has never selected or needed quicken. I do have it on my artie, but since I play a fleshie one I use reconstruct often for myself and for my robot buddies I have played with. If you are using slower cc spell it is worth trying to fit in, however the other feats you have are fine. Having access to self heals outside of heal scrolls is also a benefit. I have barely ever posted on here but my recommendation is to continue playing what you are comfortable with unless you find something that works better for your playstyle. Enjoy.

EllisDee37
12-20-2015, 01:16 PM
For Heroic Elite / Epic Hard, quicken is optional. Concentration can work well enough to suffice.

For Epic Elite, quicken is pretty close to mandatory. Concentration is useless.

goodspeed
01-01-2016, 11:33 PM
ya I like to know my recon is instant. Because when those renders or something in legendary sneak up and slap you upside the head you need hp right then and there. Your in full on oh **** run and heal survival mode in that instant.

Now that's for a recon spell though. Unless your sorc has a heal spell, if they're a fleshy screw quicken its useless.

Lonnbeimnech
01-02-2016, 09:31 AM
I used to never take quicken on a sorc because they cast so fast anyway, that the chance of being interrupted was pretty small especially if you also had good concentration.

In epic elite, and even epic hard you take so much damage at once, that you aren't going to pass your concentration check. You can still get away with it by not pulling a bunch of agro on yourself. Solo this takes great timing, in groups it shouldn't be difficult.

In legendary elite you are going to die when you get hit, so it doesn't matter.

cru121
01-02-2016, 11:40 AM
I am a fan of quicken, on sorcs or elsewhere. I am not worried about concentration that much, but I often want to cast a spell ASAP. And it's free on SLAs (also dragonmark SLAs). I feel satisfaction when I right-click a SLA and can set as many free metas as possible

Holymunchkin
01-02-2016, 11:55 AM
lol people who don't take quicken

Enderoc
01-02-2016, 12:00 PM
In epic elite, and even epic hard you take so much damage at once, that you aren't going to pass your concentration check. You can still get away with it by not pulling a bunch of agro on yourself. Solo this takes great timing, in groups it shouldn't be difficult.
.

Unless you are an elf/forged in Medium or Heavy Armor with High AC and Resistances.

My take... I see too many casters flatline on spell points all the time. Its got to the point where they are forced to invisi-zerg and AOE everything. Looking for insta-kills on every cast is going to burn you fast. Magic is for advantage, its not to solve everything.

Unless your e-peen grows bigger doing 5000 damage to a 2000 hp Kobold for the sake of Turbine pushing pots in the store.

KoobTheProud
01-02-2016, 12:49 PM
I always take Maximize, Empower, Quicken and Heighten on a caster. The focus feats are for pre-reqs only if I take them. Caveat is that my casters are almost always Warlocks or Divines these days. I had a Warforged Sorc back in the day, before SLA's, and he took SF: Evo and GSF: Evo because he wanted his Firewalls to hit for full damage. When a build is designed for just two things: Firewall and Quickened Reconstruct then you have to make sure both things are optimal all the time.

The Warlock has Quicken but I almost never toggle it on. For what she's doing (solo EE) it's not necessary. I keep the feat because if I decide to group then scaling makes it necessary. Solo I cast nothing in combat that is not insta-cast already.