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Rawrargh
11-25-2015, 11:49 AM
So, now that arcanes are finally getting some love, I feel like it's time for me to get back to one of the classes I've been enjoying the most - Sorcerer!

However, I've been out of the loop for a while, especially when it comes to arcanes since I've been both gone from the game for a long while, followed by a sprint to finish up my completionist project.

So I've got some questions that I hope some of you can answer:

First off, I'm debating whether to go warforged, bladeforged, human or drow. The pro's and con's I've seen so far:
WF+BF, easy access to amazing self hjeals,
-2 charisma on WF.
Costs a +1 HoW to make a BF pure if I wanted to go that route, but I don't suffer from -2 charisma.
Human get an extra feat and extra skill points
Drow let's me start at 20 charisma and also get's an extra skillpoint due to higher base int.

Secondly, and this also affects the race choice - I'm trying to figure out if I should go pure or splash 2 levels of paladin.
2 levels of paladin would mean I could get +8saves and not use a HoW on a BF while staying pure gives me the capstone that MIGHT ACTUALLY MATTER NOW! Assuming I stay pure, I also lose the ability to repair myself if going for WF/BF if I use the elemental forms.
Splashing more than 2 levels is out of the question since I really like the level 18 cores.

Third and probably one of the most important ones... If I decide to go for enchantment spells, meaning SF and GSF (possibly ESF) how big an issue is spell penetration in the current game? I remember playing a wizard back when MotU just came out and having issues with the drows not being particularly cooperative when it came to fingering. Would I need to invest in the spell penetration feats in order to do anything with that?
I've got a +8 from pastlives by the way.

Also, heavy armor on sorc's yay or nay?

Thanks in advance.

dunklezhan
11-25-2015, 11:56 AM
fingering.

This will never cease to be funny.

Aaaaaaanyway....

Spell pen is of course still a challenge vs underdark drow at level. I don't think spell pen is the main challenge for casters at epic levels though, that's still DCs. Take both Spell pen feats and gear for it you're probably fine.

Thalone
11-25-2015, 08:03 PM
Here's my take. Splashing PAL 2 for +8 saves alone isn't worth it on its own thanks to a lot of ways you can prep for immunity. Instakills = Deathblock/ward. Holds = FoM from partymate or gear or flask. Commands = Magic Circle against Evil. This leaves some rarer CC stuff like Sphere of Dancing (don't walk into it/Gust of Wind it away), Symbol of Stunning (same), and Soundburst-like stuns (Epic Chord of Reprisals). In terms of Reflex saves against damage, you have lots of options too; MRR, absorption gear, Fire Shield, resistances, ship buffs. So if you're not willing to go PAL 3 for the additional survivability from the stance, you may as well be pure.

For Spell Pen, end game is now mostly devils. I haven't brought a DC caster into them on EE, so I can't tell you what the enemy SR is. The wiki's missing a fair bit of EE CR data on the latest packs, but I believe CR generally equals SR (except for drow), so you may need 60-80 for no-fail. Given you're a Sorc with limited feats, I would find some other way of dealing with SR enemies.

Armour no longer gives MRR at all, and only grants PRR when proficient, and scales with BAB. So if you stay pure and fleshy, there's little point in heavy armour as you'd have to train three armour feats to get any use out of it and fit in ASF gear. You could make a case for Adamantine Plating if you're going robot though.

Rawrargh
11-26-2015, 10:27 AM
Here's my take. Splashing PAL 2 for +8 saves alone isn't worth it on its own thanks to a lot of ways you can prep for immunity. Instakills = Deathblock/ward. Holds = FoM from partymate or gear or flask. Commands = Magic Circle against Evil. This leaves some rarer CC stuff like Sphere of Dancing (don't walk into it/Gust of Wind it away), Symbol of Stunning (same), and Soundburst-like stuns (Epic Chord of Reprisals). In terms of Reflex saves against damage, you have lots of options too; MRR, absorption gear, Fire Shield, resistances, ship buffs. So if you're not willing to go PAL 3 for the additional survivability from the stance, you may as well be pure.

For Spell Pen, end game is now mostly devils. I haven't brought a DC caster into them on EE, so I can't tell you what the enemy SR is. The wiki's missing a fair bit of EE CR data on the latest packs, but I believe CR generally equals SR (except for drow), so you may need 60-80 for no-fail. Given you're a Sorc with limited feats, I would find some other way of dealing with SR enemies.

Armour no longer gives MRR at all, and only grants PRR when proficient, and scales with BAB. So if you stay pure and fleshy, there's little point in heavy armour as you'd have to train three armour feats to get any use out of it and fit in ASF gear. You could make a case for Adamantine Plating if you're going robot though.

Thanks for the input, looks like it's gonna be a pure sorc, I got 9-10 visors for DW and the bottomless bottle of FoM and prot from evil can just be picked up as sorc.

The spell pen though... I can't really see how anyone would go about overcoming that... I mean:
20 from class levels
6 from DI/magister caster levels
3 from piercing spell craft in DI/Magister
(3/ possible from a twisted piercing spellcraft in DI/magister/EA)
9 from pastlives
6 from item (countenance)
2 insightful item (increased potential)
2 from arcane augmentation IX (gauntlets of the arcane soldier)

48(51/54 with one or two twists going into spell pen)
+d20
*EDIT* DOH! +8 from feats...

Am I overlooking something or is it just impossible to achieve no-fail spell penetration?


As for the armor thing, that was mostly if I would splash paladin since they already get the feats

Thalone
11-26-2015, 06:58 PM
There's also +1 from guild buffs. My comment on 60-80 was a ceiling; the bosses on the Archon/Gambit quests are that CR on EE. The trash stuff are likely lower, but the wiki doesn't have data on them.

Edit: don't forget class enhancements.