PDA

View Full Version : U29 Lamannia: Feats Feedback



Steelstar
11-19-2015, 01:55 PM
Hello folks!

Most of the new feats in Update 29 are working in the new Lamannia build, so we'd like to encourage you to try them out, then let us know your thoughts in this thread. This is NOT a thread to provide theory or opinion - Feel free to use our non-Lamannia threads for that. This thread is meant to get direct feedback on the new feats after you've tried them on Lamannia.

See here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438924-Lamannia-Known-Issues-(Last-Updated-11-19-15))for Known Issues related to the feats in this Lamannia pass - Other than those, all of the feats mentioned in this week's threads (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467837-Update-29-Feats-Overview) should be useable.

Steve_Howe
11-19-2015, 02:39 PM
Greater Ruin's tooltip needs to be fixed. It says it does 500 damage like regular Ruin says but it's actually doing the 1000 like it's supposed to.

Steelstar
11-19-2015, 02:46 PM
Greater Ruin's tooltip needs to be fixed. It says it does 500 damage like regular Ruin says but it's actually doing the 1000 like it's supposed to.

Yes, it's on the Known Issues list (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438924-Lamannia-Known-Issues-(Last-Updated-11-19-15)).

Aletys
11-19-2015, 04:37 PM
Two comments on the new feats, plus a general question on Lamannia.

1. Arcane Pulse is supposed to give force damage every 2 seconds for 16 seconds. The problem is that it takes 4-5 seconds after you cast it for it to start doing damage. That's 1/4 to 1/3 of the duration so we're losing 1/4 to 1/3 of the damage.

2. Arcane Insight - The bonus is nice, but you can only use it for 30 seconds & it's got a 3 minute cooldown. Once every 3 minutes you can land a spell? That's pretty limiting for a DC caster. Not sure I'd bother to take it, as I have to give up something else like a spell focus that is permanent or spell pen.

3. General question: The option to send guild invites in a mail message seems to have disappeared. Was this intentional? I'm setting up a guild/ship for testing purposes, & can't invite my other toon, as they're both on the same account.

Aletys
11-19-2015, 05:48 PM
I like some of the new feats, but am wondering why you've given some of them alignment requirements. At least, it shows alignment restrictions on the release notes, though I didn't see any alignment restrictions in Lamannia, and was able to take them regardless of alignment. What is the intent here?

Also, some of them should frankly be auto-grants to the appropriate classes. Eg: If you're an Arty & have taken Construct Essence, you should automatically get Improved Construct essence. Perhaps Construct Exemplar remains one you must take. Ditto with Improved Augment Summoning. If you are an Arty, Druid or Wizard and already spent a feat slot for Augment Summoning, it should be auto-granted since a pet is part of their class.

Steelstar
11-19-2015, 05:53 PM
I like some of the new feats, but am wondering why you've given some of them alignment requirements. At least, it shows alignment restrictions on the release notes, though I didn't see any alignment restrictions in Lamannia, and was able to take them regardless of alignment. What is the intent here?

They are not intended to be alignment restricted; that marking came from internal notes (those are the alignments related to each of the planes those feats get their names from)

Atremus
11-19-2015, 07:48 PM
FvS caster Comments:

1) Wellspring of Power - Is it possible to increase the casting time on the animation? It looks like I am "hitting the Bauble" when I press the button. In combat, I'd prefer a faster animation if possible so I don't get hit / interrupted. I love the boost, but I would love it more if it lasted 60 seconds. :)

2) I took Wellspring of Power, Master of Light, Arcane Pulse, Celestia and the Epic Meta (at Level 30) - taking the epic meta magic did not grant any additional SP. I am unsure if that's working as intended. If not, you might want to add to the tool tip that the SP granted is a 1x deal only.

3) Arcane Pulse - The icon (monster examine window) is for Niac's. That'll be super confusing in raids. I recommend unleashing the Art Department on a new graphic if that isn't planned.

Overall I really, really like the new feats.

Epitome
11-19-2015, 08:54 PM
I see that Dire Charge in Known Issues is reporting that the DC is incorrect from the current Lama build which states a 5 base DC higher. It has some issues beside incorrect stun DC. The feat icon is a passive shape (octagonal) instead of activating shape (square). The activated feat is a 12 second cooldown so may want to include that in description. Also confused on the 6 second duration and what that is supposed to mean. Also if the incorrect DC on this build is:

Base 25 + Highest Ability Mod + Total Level + Bonus to Stun Attacks

My level 30 paladin should be at 25 + 26 (str) + 30 + (6 legend tactics + 12 item) = 99 Stun chance

Testing Demon Assault on EE (because I know these mobs have insane fort saves) and I was unable to get 1 stun off on any of them the entire run.

Alkusoittow
11-19-2015, 09:31 PM
Master of Earth: tooltip shows incorrect description.

TackW5
11-19-2015, 11:52 PM
I'm testing some of the new feats on a 15/5 FvS/Cleric running AoV 37/DD 42. Comparing Spirit Blades to some other options, it is hard to see its value. All with the same build and damage metas going, I get:

Avg Greater Ruin - 10900 damage for 158 sp
Avg Ruin - 5400 for 99 sp (also quickened, if the cost seems weird)
Avg Spirit Blades - 884 for 45 sp

To do the same amount of damage as Greater Ruin with Spirit Blades would take 555 sp. To do the same as Ruin would cost 275 sp, and Ruin is a lower level feat with no sphere completion prerequisites. Since these are all based off of Force/untyped, anything that changes one is going to change the other. If I were running with the new Intensify, the ratios would be even worse. The CD on Spirit Blades is shorter, but against almost anything I am better off just waiting the few extra seconds to Ruin again. I would think you would need to at least double the damage or halve the sp cost of Spirit Blades to make it competitive.

brzytki
11-20-2015, 02:04 AM
Hey Steel, i have a question for you: what's the intention behind putting "while sneaking, permanent Displacement" in Scion of the Etereal Plane?

I'm asking because if it's just to avoid getting hit while sneaking, it's pretty lame. And if it's to avoid getting pulled out of sneak, then it's utterly useless since it doesn't matter if a monster hits you or misses you, you are still being pulled out of sneak mode if the monster "passes the hit-box check". Or maybe the Devs aren't aware of this?

BigErkyKid
11-20-2015, 03:14 AM
Hey Steel, i have a question for you: what's the intention behind putting "while sneaking, permanent Displacement" in Scion of the Etereal Plane?

I'm asking because if it's just to avoid getting hit while sneaking, it's pretty lame. And if it's to avoid getting pulled out of sneak, then it's utterly useless since it doesn't matter if a monster hits you or misses you, you are still being pulled out of sneak mode if the monster "passes the hit-box check". Or maybe the Devs aren't aware of this?

Bingo.

Steelstar
11-20-2015, 07:05 AM
Two comments on the new feats, plus a general question on Lamannia.

1. Arcane Pulse is supposed to give force damage every 2 seconds for 16 seconds. The problem is that it takes 4-5 seconds after you cast it for it to start doing damage. That's 1/4 to 1/3 of the duration so we're losing 1/4 to 1/3 of the damage.

2. Arcane Insight - The bonus is nice, but you can only use it for 30 seconds & it's got a 3 minute cooldown. Once every 3 minutes you can land a spell? That's pretty limiting for a DC caster. Not sure I'd bother to take it, as I have to give up something else like a spell focus that is permanent or spell pen.

3. General question: The option to send guild invites in a mail message seems to have disappeared. Was this intentional? I'm setting up a guild/ship for testing purposes, & can't invite my other toon, as they're both on the same account.

Arcane Pulse will be fixed to give an initial tic of damage at the time of casting.

It's a big boost to DCs for a limited time. At the same level, there are other options for smaller static boosts, if you'd prefer those.

Not sure what's going on with the mail button, I'll let QA know.


FvS caster Comments:

1) Wellspring of Power - Is it possible to increase the casting time on the animation? It looks like I am "hitting the Bauble" when I press the button. In combat, I'd prefer a faster animation if possible so I don't get hit / interrupted. I love the boost, but I would love it more if it lasted 60 seconds. :)

2) I took Wellspring of Power, Master of Light, Arcane Pulse, Celestia and the Epic Meta (at Level 30) - taking the epic meta magic did not grant any additional SP. I am unsure if that's working as intended. If not, you might want to add to the tool tip that the SP granted is a 1x deal only.

3) Arcane Pulse - The icon (monster examine window) is for Niac's. That'll be super confusing in raids. I recommend unleashing the Art Department on a new graphic if that isn't planned.

Overall I really, really like the new feats.

We'll take a look at Wellspring's animation.

The Metamagic feats do not work yet, and that includes the additional SP.

None of the new feats and effects have proper icons in this build, but they will before Live.


I see that Dire Charge in Known Issues is reporting that the DC is incorrect from the current Lama build which states a 5 base DC higher. It has some issues beside incorrect stun DC. The feat icon is a passive shape (octagonal) instead of activating shape (square). The activated feat is a 12 second cooldown so may want to include that in description. Also confused on the 6 second duration and what that is supposed to mean. Also if the incorrect DC on this build is:

Base 25 + Highest Ability Mod + Total Level + Bonus to Stun Attacks

My level 30 paladin should be at 25 + 26 (str) + 30 + (6 legend tactics + 12 item) = 99 Stun chance

Testing Demon Assault on EE (because I know these mobs have insane fort saves) and I was unable to get 1 stun off on any of them the entire run.

Yes, both the tooltip and DC are incorrect in this build. The current Tooltip and DC also don't match. Hence the Known Issue!


Master of Earth: tooltip shows incorrect description.

Thanks! Fixed for the next build.


I'm testing some of the new feats on a 15/5 FvS/Cleric running AoV 37/DD 42. Comparing Spirit Blades to some other options, it is hard to see its value. All with the same build and damage metas going, I get:

Avg Greater Ruin - 10900 damage for 158 sp
Avg Ruin - 5400 for 99 sp (also quickened, if the cost seems weird)
Avg Spirit Blades - 884 for 45 sp

To do the same amount of damage as Greater Ruin with Spirit Blades would take 555 sp. To do the same as Ruin would cost 275 sp, and Ruin is a lower level feat with no sphere completion prerequisites. Since these are all based off of Force/untyped, anything that changes one is going to change the other. If I were running with the new Intensify, the ratios would be even worse. The CD on Spirit Blades is shorter, but against almost anything I am better off just waiting the few extra seconds to Ruin again. I would think you would need to at least double the damage or halve the sp cost of Spirit Blades to make it competitive.

Thanks for the balance feedback on Spirit Blades. We're still doing some work on the FX and projectiles for that ability as well, we'll adjust the balance while we're in there.

Atremus
11-20-2015, 07:35 AM
We'll take a look at Wellspring's animation.

The Metamagic feats do not work yet, and that includes the additional SP.

None of the new feats and effects have proper icons in this build, but they will before Live.



Thanks Steel.

I had assumed the icons to be temporary but just wanted to be on the safe side.

Follow on question to the Metamagic: Will we be able to individually toggle spells once the feat is active/functional? Currently each spell we have on our hot bar is set to individual preferences for what metamagics can apply even if all of the feats are toggled on. I'm ok if this doesn't happen, I'll take the power boost and trade it for a known issue.

ThomasHunter
11-20-2015, 09:03 AM
I was thinking it would be nice to have Fred free again for a week to play around with the new feats a bit to see how different toons play with them. I would love to monkey around with the new pets feats on my druid and possibly the SLA on my Cleric!

Thanks for considering.

Aderbal123
11-20-2015, 09:49 AM
Error

Mryal
11-20-2015, 09:50 AM
Theres not much to give feedback right now since a lot of feats arent working.But i did some testing.

Burst of Glacial Wrath is totaly underwhelming.With 416 cold spellpower,Empower and Maximize on i was getting 1000's damage, and also the spell costs 50 sp and im still paying 77sp with all metamagics at lv 30 with discounts counted.
The CC portion is also pretty bad, Epic Deific Diadem was giving me Evocation stacks, however testing on EE Demon's Assault with a 73 evocation DC + druid -4 saves debuff only one mob in the whole quest was frozen once.

Tbh the feat isnt serving any purpose in its current state.And its not worth the absurd 77 sp cost i have to pay for it before the addition of the new metamagics that arent available yet.In fact i dont see why we have to pay any sp for metamagics on those feats, neither on Glacial wrath or on Ruin and Greater Ruin.Paying 150 sp for Greater Ruin is far from beign ok.These should at least be treated as SLA's, they alredy cost a Feat slot and they alredy cost SP.
Personaly i'd never take either any of those feats, Glacial Wrath, Ruin or Greater Ruin.Whats the point of using something that zeroes your sp bar in 15-20 casts? You dont have to pay any sp to use a greataxe or bow.

maddong
11-20-2015, 09:53 AM
I don't like how the Master of Feats only improve SLAs. I think they heavily favor sorcerers.

I still think you would be better off adding +Xd6 elemental damage to all spells of an element. Or you could just make it a toggle that adds Xd6 of that elemental damage to all of your offensive damage spells (per cast not per projectile).

Maybe the master of feats exclude each other so you can only pick one.
Master of Fire: Toggle, your offensive damage spells inflict an extra 5d6 fire damage. You also gain 10 fire spell power and 10% fire critical damage.

That is useful to a lot more people than sorcerers....
That improves your meteor swarm, delayed blast fireball, flame strike, and scorching ray in addition to the sorcerer SLA spells....
You just titrate the +Xd6 to give the appropriate amount of power for the feat.

Steelstar
11-20-2015, 09:58 AM
The CC portion is also pretty bad, Epic Deific Diadem was giving me Evocation stacks, however testing on EE Demon's Assault with a 73 evocation DC + druid -4 saves debuff only one mob in the whole quest was frozen once.


Like we said on the Known Issues list, its DC isn't working right yet. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438924-Lamannia-Known-Issues-(Last-Updated-11-19-15))

Thanks for the rest of the feedback.

Cordovan
11-20-2015, 10:11 AM
They are not intended to be alignment restricted; that marking came from internal notes (those are the alignments related to each of the planes those feats get their names from)

Doh! Will correct the notes.

Mryal
11-20-2015, 10:17 AM
Like we said on the Known Issues list, its DC isn't working right yet. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438924-Lamannia-Known-Issues-(Last-Updated-11-19-15))

Thanks for the rest of the feedback.

Hrm.I should have actualy read that.
Either way, 20+WIS/INT/CHA is also pretty low, a regular Heightened spell is 19+Your casting stat+Bonuses related to school.Youre not mentioning that Glacial Wrath belongs to a spell school at all, i am getting Evocation stacks with Epic Deific Diadem, but does this means it will actualy by an Evocation spell?

Is it intentional for the DC to be so low and have no spell school atached?

sjbb87
11-20-2015, 10:31 AM
Yes, both the tooltip and DC are incorrect in this build. The current Tooltip and DC also don't match. Hence the Known Issue!



I would ask to check this too ...
And one more thing ... could show us the saves to trip , stunning blow, sunder, etc ...
It is annoying to have to be calculating all the time ....
Showed once and do not know why removed it ....

N-0cturn
11-20-2015, 03:44 PM
Feedback on Feats:

Dire Charge: I think the cooldown is way to low. I am comparing it with Spinning Ice which has a CD of 25 sec. And while it theoretically can last longer it allows the enemy a save every 2 seconds.

Spinning Ice is the Iconic feature of the Warchanter and a feat that competes with +20 Heal AMP/+20 Pos Spellpower should not be better.

Arcane Warrior:
1. All stacks are lost at once after the 6 seconds which currently makes it pretty much useless.
2. Currently you get a stack of +1 Melee/Ranged Power for every spellcast even Healing or Buff Spells. I think it said offensive spell in the description.

Chette
11-20-2015, 04:29 PM
The Master of Light feat is inconsistent with most of the other spell type mastery feats.

Seven of the "mastery" feats (air, fire, electric, artifice, music, wilds, knowledge) affect ALL of the spell like abilities granted by the appropriate enhancement set. An 8th master of [x] feat (water/cold) affects 2 of the enhancement granted SLAs, as well as the most used water/cold spell for boss damage (cold DoT spell).

The master of light feat however stands out, in that it affects only one of the SLAs granted by the light-aligned divine disciple enhancement tree. Why have most other casting classes been given huge improvements to their spell-like abilities, yet light-aligned clerics seem to have been left out? Currently master of light affects the spell sunburst, which is particularly silly, as it already has a max caster level of 25, and receives only marginal improvement form this feat. Additionally, sunburst is rarely used as a damage spell at end game, and is instead used almost exclusively for the blind effect or for destroying certain undeads. Neither of these are affected by the increased caster level. Sun bolt is a questionable inclusion as part of this feat as well. While it is an SLA as part of the AoV epic destiny, generally divine wrath is preferred by most casters. Perhaps this was included as it is the only SLA available to Favored Souls? If that is the case, then OK, keep sun bolt in, but really it's about time favored souls either get their own casting tree or get access to divine disciple tree.

I am glad to see some new effects for casters, but I am concerned yet again that not as much effort seems to have gone into development of the feats for divine casters as has gone into those for arcane casters, and that, once again, clerics and favoured souls are forced to share a feat that serves each in only a half-arsed manner.

In order to serve both light-aligned clerics and favoured souls, I would suggest leaving sun bolt and searing light, replacing sunbeam (whose inclusion is quite baffling) with divine punishment (shared by both clerics and favoured soul) and also adding one of either nimbus of light, or holy smite.

The master of dead feat should also be re-examined, as it seems to serve both pale masters and dark-aligned clerics, and misses one of the cleric SLAs. I'm not as familiar with the general spell usage of either of these classes though, so I will leave that to another to comment on the appropriateness of the spell selection.

noinfo
11-20-2015, 06:55 PM
It's a big boost to DCs for a limited time. At the same level, there are other options for smaller static boosts, if you'd prefer those.
.

Please consider the feedback on this. Boosts do not lend them selves to DC casting in this manner this can be reflected in the fact that most people have either ignored posting about the feat or not really considering it useful.

it seems that you think an uptime of 1/6 for a DC boost is appropriate, then make it a proc with a 1/6 chance of the boost applying to a spell.

At least if DC's were to be adjusted so that EE end games are viable to casters than it could be a real boost for some who are still getting set up.

To make it very useful have it allow dc's instakills to affect an orange named. 1/6 chance for a FOD to have a chance at a mini boss in epic would not be over powered.

As it is it is a feat that is dead in the water at the moment.

draven1
11-21-2015, 03:38 AM
it seems that you think an uptime of 1/6 for a DC boost is appropriate, then make it a proc with a 1/6 chance of the boost applying to a spell.



We already have very similar one in magister.

[Spell School] Augmentation: Passive Bonus: Chosen school spells have [5/10/15]% chance to reduce target <save depending on school> by 10 for [10/20/30] seconds.

IronClan
11-21-2015, 08:14 PM
I would really like to see all the mastery feats include at least 1 or 2 additional minor spell options, and at least ONE AOE or damage over time spell, Blade barrier for FvS and Cleric, Wall of Fire, Ball Lightning, Ice Storm.

Especially the wizard one which requires you to be a one trick pony Arcane bolt/blast spammer to use (these spells suck in more ways than I can describe right now). I don't see taking this despite the fact that it can ramp up powerfully (and I'm all about spike damage). For one anything that forces me to "keep up" something generally really sucks in DDO and makes the game into a mini-game of "can I keep spamming this fast enough", that's no fun, it makes the game feel cheezy and arcade like. It's the exact opposite of the tactical combat feel I like. Also this forces me to repeatedly cast either Bolt every 5 seconds and take literally FOREVER to build it up (every 5 seconds I get a stack every 6 seconds a stack fades off but universal cooldown is 1 second meaning I have to perfectly time the spell(s) I cast in between Arcane Bolts, or I will only tread water... or I use both Bolt and blast and waste 6 AP and be forced into the terrible Archmage T5. This is just more egregious pigeonholing which the present Dev staff seems to be on a mission to do.

"you must do these two things over and over if you want to have good Wizard DPS" is not what DDO is supposed to be about.

I think this feat though it has a powerful effect is going to turn out like "archers focus" no one will care despite it adding significant DPS if you ramp it up, being forced into doing something unfun (standing still as long as possible in the case of archers focus) spamming two bad spells to get it ramped up is just no fun.

You guys have got to stop trying to make everyone watch Cooldowns and play cooldown wack-a-mole... It's NOT where DDO's meat and potatoes is. This started with cleaves a few years back and now you're trying to turn Casting into the same thing. "DSP rotations" like WoW, cooldown wack-a-mole in place of compelling tactical gameplay blech... I want to read and react to situations, I do not want to mash two buttons desperately trying to keep my power from slipping away

"you are not facing that monster"
"invalid target Ironclan"
damn lost a stack!
*new target dies before i get off a cast*
get a stack back
*next target is fingered right when you hit the key*
******
"You are not facing that monster"
&^%&#&^%$!

No matter how cool it would be to do big Greater Ruins I'm just going to pass on that feat. I'm not okay with being forced to use Archmage T5 and I'm not into watching cooldowns or button mashing instead of watching cooldowns.

Infiltraitor
11-21-2015, 08:24 PM
This has probably been brought up before, but Scion of the Astral Plane isn't noticeable as a Legendary Feat. Most of the other legendary feats are solidly in the 30+ AP range to replicate with enhancements, whereas Scion is worth less than half. Maybe add a +4 to weapon enhancement bonus to bring it up to 22 AP? But 14 AP worth of stats compared to 32 is really unbalanced.

Scion of the Astral Plane (worth 14 AP)
+4 to Tactical Feat DCs (4 AP)
+4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered. (4 AP)
+4% Dodge. (4 AP)
+4 to Reflex Saves (2 AP)


When compared to

Scion of Celestia (worth 32 AP)
+20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power (12 AP)
+30% Crit Damage with Positive, Light, & Alignment spells (3 AP)
+150 Maximum Hit Points (15 AP)
+4 to Will Saves (2 AP)

when compared to

Scion of Arborea (worth 38 AP)
+20 Melee and Ranged Power (20 AP)
+20 Force Spell Power and +20 Universal Spell Power (12 AP)
+2 to the Enhancement Bonus of your weapon (4 AP)
+4 to Fortitude Saves (2 AP)

when compared to

Scion of the Plane of Earth (worth 30 AP)
+4 to the DCs of Conjuration spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells (6 AP)
+20 PRR (6 AP)
+10 Acid Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power (12 AP)
Add 2d20 Acid damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power) (6 AP)



Suggested Revamp:
Scion of the Astral Plane (worth 28 AP)
+5 to Tactical Feat DCs (5 AP)
+5% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered. (5 AP)
+5% Dodge. (5 AP)
+5 to Reflex Saves (3 AP)
+5 to Weapon Enhancement. (10 AP)

IronClan
11-21-2015, 08:37 PM
Dire Charge: I think the cooldown is way to low. I am comparing it with Spinning Ice which has a CD of 25 sec. And while it theoretically can last longer it allows the enemy a save every 2 seconds.

Spinning Ice is the Iconic feature of the Warchanter and a feat that competes with +20 Heal AMP/+20 Pos Spellpower should not be better.

Spinning ice is obtainable with 5 or more levels of Bard and has a higher possible DC, Dire charge is level 29 feat... you're making an argument that A) only bards should have some nice helpless melee oriented AOE CC effect and that a level 5 class enhancement tree ability should be stronger than a level 29 Feat...

Spinning ice is also a cleave and 4W not 2W and it also doesn't require a clunky hard targetting and also will not give you a "you're not facing" error and then go on cooldown...

So do you want Carnifex to be more powerful than Riftmaker too? And only one class be able to equip it? because that's basically what you're saying.

IMO if anything you're making the case that Spinning Ice is too good and has too low of a cooldown. In any case the "Staff lunge-iness" of it will make it pretty unattractive.

PsychoBlonde
11-21-2015, 09:43 PM
Theres not much to give feedback right now since a lot of feats arent working.But i did some testing.

Burst of Glacial Wrath is totaly underwhelming.With 416 cold spellpower,Empower and Maximize on i was getting 1000's damage, and also the spell costs 50 sp and im still paying 77sp with all metamagics at lv 30 with discounts counted.
The CC portion is also pretty bad, Epic Deific Diadem was giving me Evocation stacks, however testing on EE Demon's Assault with a 73 evocation DC + druid -4 saves debuff only one mob in the whole quest was frozen once.

Tbh the feat isnt serving any purpose in its current state.And its not worth the absurd 77 sp cost i have to pay for it before the addition of the new metamagics that arent available yet.In fact i dont see why we have to pay any sp for metamagics on those feats, neither on Glacial wrath or on Ruin and Greater Ruin.Paying 150 sp for Greater Ruin is far from beign ok.These should at least be treated as SLA's, they alredy cost a Feat slot and they alredy cost SP.
Personaly i'd never take either any of those feats, Glacial Wrath, Ruin or Greater Ruin.Whats the point of using something that zeroes your sp bar in 15-20 casts? You dont have to pay any sp to use a greataxe or bow.

Just a note--zeroing your SP bar in 15-20 casts was de rigeur for pre-SLA casting in the game. I know plenty of people who use Ruin even as expensive as it is, because it can do a lot of damage VERY QUICKLY and a shrine gets you your whole bar back, so running down your entire bar in a very short period of time is actually not a bad thing at all times if your damage output is hitting what you need it to.

Ruin has NO SAVING THROW. The amount of damage it does is guaranteed.

sudzz
11-22-2015, 05:28 AM
I was thinking it would be nice to have Fred free again for a week to play around with the new feats a bit to see how different toons play with them. I would love to monkey around with the new pets feats on my druid and possibly the SLA on my Cleric!

Thanks for considering.


You do know you could talk to the Poincelot guy to get tp, buy shards with those tp and then buy the respec with shards right?

mikarddo
11-22-2015, 06:13 AM
This has probably been brought up before, but Scion of the Astral Plane isn't noticeable as a Legendary Feat. Most of the other legendary feats are solidly in the 30+ AP range to replicate with enhancements, whereas Scion is worth less than half. Maybe add a +4 to weapon enhancement bonus to bring it up to 22 AP? But 14 AP worth of stats compared to 32 is really unbalanced.

Scion of the Astral Plane (worth 14 AP)
+4 to Tactical Feat DCs (4 AP)
+4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered. (4 AP)
+4% Dodge. (4 AP)
+4 to Reflex Saves (2 AP)


When compared to

Scion of Celestia (worth 32 AP)
+20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power (12 AP)
+30% Crit Damage with Positive, Light, & Alignment spells (3 AP)
+150 Maximum Hit Points (15 AP)
+4 to Will Saves (2 AP)

when compared to

Scion of Arborea (worth 32 AP)
+20 Melee and Ranged Power (20 AP)
+20 Force Spell Power and +20 Universal Spell Power (6 AP)
+2 to the Enhancement Bonus of your weapon (4 AP)
+4 to Fortitude Saves (2 AP)

when compared to

Scion of the Plane of Earth (worth 30 AP)
+4 to the DCs of Conjuration spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells (6 AP)
+20 PRR (6 AP)
+10 Acid Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power (12 AP)
Add 2d20 Acid damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power) (6 AP)



Suggested Revamp:
Scion of the Astral Plane (worth 28 AP)
+5 to Tactical Feat DCs (5 AP)
+5% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered. (5 AP)
+5% Dodge. (5 AP)
+5 to Reflex Saves (3 AP)
+5 to Weapon Enhancement. (10 AP)

I agree a revamp and improvenment is much needed. However, I think it would be more interesting if "Vorpal range is now 19-20 rather than 20" was added as that would make it add something different. More fun that way imho.

I all cases a "+ to dodge cap" is needed to make the "+ dodge" truly worthwhile.

Infiltraitor
11-22-2015, 01:38 PM
I agree a revamp and improvenment is much needed. However, I think it would be more interesting if "Vorpal range is now 19-20 rather than 20" was added as that would make it add something different. More fun that way imho.

I all cases a "+ to dodge cap" is needed to make the "+ dodge" truly worthwhile.

Well, a unique buff has no comparable enhancement value. However, it's status as a epic destiny feat and it's overall popularity as perfect single weapon fighting puts it in the 3 AP range. Not nearly enough to compensate for a 18 point deficit.

CrackedIce
11-22-2015, 02:31 PM
With the added increase of DC availability for casters, how does this impact AA imbues? Example, does embolden metamagic work with paralyzing imbues. If so, how? Currently DC and spell power for imbues are not activated based on time their cast, but rather for current DC and spell power at each shot. How does embolden help here? If it doesn't, where will AA be able to make up DC shortfall?

mikarddo
11-22-2015, 02:40 PM
Well, a unique buff has no comparable enhancement value. However, it's status as a epic destiny feat and it's overall popularity as perfect single weapon fighting puts it in the 3 AP range. Not nearly enough to compensate for a 18 point deficit.

Adrenaline in Fury makes me think it would worth a good deal more than just 3ap.

Infiltraitor
11-22-2015, 03:47 PM
Adrenaline in Fury makes me think it would worth a good deal more than just 3ap.

Are you sure it is wise to add a feature that makes it an overpowered niche effect for some and near useless for others? A fury shot specific feat might not be the best game design.

DrawingGuy
11-22-2015, 03:49 PM
I'm going to make a massive post going through every single 29/30 feat (the "other" epic feats are straight boost options for casters that already have strong discussions and don't have much to add there):

Level 29 Epic Destiny Feats:
Wind through the Trees (3 Primal Destinies)
When enemies hit or miss you, they have a 5% chance to be knocked down with no save. This may only trigger once every 12 seconds.
Right now this seems to be an inferior version of Swashbuckler's "Elegant Footwork". While it does allow hits to qualify making it useful for meat tanks, I do think this can afford to be boosted to 10%. As long as the knockdown is a helpless state, that is what will make this feat a serious consideration.

Dire Charge (3 Martial Destinies)
Charge forward at the targeted foe. That foe and all nearby foes are subject to +2[w] damage and must make a Fortitude save or be stunned. Stun DC is (20 + highest ability modifier + bonus to stun attacks).
Beyond the known issue of the broken DC, I found this move to be very janky - it uses the same animation as Shield Charge and faces the same issues. The animation is not smooth, so I will find myself charging in place, teleporting, pausing and not hitting anything.... I never know what it will do. The clunky animation is so bad that it brings this to near uselessness to me. If this and Shield Charge can be cleaned up, this would be great... otherwise not sure how much it would be used.

Arcane Pulse (3 Arcane Destinies)
Spell: A magical pulse of force reverberates through the target's body, dealing 3d6+6 force damage every 2 seconds for a duration of 16 seconds. This spell can stack on the target up to 5 times, increasing the damage with each stack. 3 second cooldown
As others have stated, the delay needs to be fixed.

Deific Warding (3 Divine Destinies)
When you take damage, add one stack of Deific Warding (+1 Sacred Bonus to MRR). This effect can stack up to 30 times. One stack is removed every 3 seconds.
Didn't test - does this stack with Sacred Defender stance? Would seem that it not working with the class, Paladin, that this is based off of would be silly. I'd also say that it could use providing both PRR and MRR.

Dreamscape (2 Primal+ 1 Arcane)
Activate to pop off to the land of dreams. You are invulnerable and invisible for five seconds, then return with a random 30-second buff. 1 minute cooldown.
I'm mixed on this. I find short-duration buffs a bit tedious to maintain, but the random nature and the defensive ways you can use it give it some merit.

Harbinger of Chaos (1 Primal+2 Martial)
With weapon and unarmed attacks, deal 1d20 Bane damage against all targets and an additional 2d20 Chaos damage against Lawful targets. This scales with Melee or Ranged power depending on your weapons.
Pretty strong feat, though one thing I would love to see is if this also added Chaotic Alignment to your weapons/unarmed.

Fount of Life (1 Primal+ 2 Divine)
+20 Healing Amp and Positive Spell Power
While the meta leans towards DPS over survival feats, still nice. Calling it "Fount of Life", wouldn't adding a passive regen be fitting?

Embodiment of Order (1 Divine+ 2 Martial)
With weapon and unarmed attacks, deal 10 Bane damage against all targets and an additional 20 Law damage against Chaotic targets. This scales with Melee or Ranged power depending on your weapons.
This is a play on Chaos, though as others have mentioned, it is mathematically weaker. Would hate to see those nice even numbers go away, so adding +1 or 2 Enhancement would balance it out. Would also like to see this add Lawful Alignment.

Spirit Blades (1 Divine+2 Arcane)
Spell: Create a series of spectral blades which fly at a nearby opponent. Each of the five blades does 2d20 Piercing and 1d20 Force damage.
There have already been number crunshes of damage and SP per damage... really I don't think this should be balanaced against Greater Ruin. Considering the damages, this will fit well into a lot of builds that use Ruin, and does not compete as it's a Destiny feat. I expect it to still get a lot of use.

Arcane Warrior (2 Arcane+1 Martial)
Your weapon and unarmed attacks grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Magical (+1 Universal Spell Power). Your offensive spells grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Physical (+1 Melee and Ranged Power). Each of these stacks to 20 times and each stack lasts for 6 seconds. You may gain a stack of each no more than once per second.
This feat is perfect for the niches that built for it (such as Arti, Wizard INT fighters and Warlocks). Don't bend to the others complaining about the counter stacking - magic for might and might for magic is the way I like it. To do otherwise would make everyone take it for the 20 melee/ranged. Hoping Rune Arms count as spells for this!



Level 30 Legendary Feats:
Scion of the Plane of Earth
+4 to the DCs of Conjuration spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
+20 PRR
+10 Acid Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
Add 2d20 Acid damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of the Plane of Air
+4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
+4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap
+10 Electric Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
Add 2d20 Electric damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of the Plane of Fire
+25% Spell Critical Damage with all spells
+10 PRR, +10 MRR
+10 Fire Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
Add 2d20 Fire damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of the Plane of Water
+200 Maximum Spell Points
+20 MRR
+10 Cold Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
Add 2d20 Cold damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of the Feywild
+4 to the DCs of Enchantment spells, +2 to DCs of other spells
+20 Healing Amp
+10 Sonic Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
Add 2d20 Sonic damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of the Shadowfell
+4 to the DCs of Necromancy spells, +2 to DCs of other spells
+20 Negative Amp (assuming you take healing from Negative)
+40 Negative Spell Power
Weapon and Unarmed attacks heal you for 1d6 Positive damage, or 1d6 Negative damage if you are Undead.

Scion of Mechanus
+10% Fortification Bypass on weapon and unarmed attacks
+20 Repair Amplification (assuming you take healing from Repair)
+20 Repair & Rust Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
Gain: Master Reconstruction, shares cooldown with Communion of Scribing

Scion of Celestia
+30% Crit Damage with Positive, Light, & Alignment spells
+150 Maximum Hit Points
+20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
+4 to Will Saves

Grouping all the spell schools together - They all seem to follow the same basic formula (1 utility, 1 defense, 1 offense, 1 spellpower). 10/30 universal is the strongest split with Necro getting the short end of 40. 20/20 would be the fairest across-board imo, though I do see arguments for favoring the elemental pools. I do think Scion of Celestia is getting a bit of the short end of the stick just getting +4 Will Saves - I'd suggest adding +4 Spell Penetration


Scion of the Ethereal Plane
Permanent Blur, and while sneaking, permanent Displacement.
+1 point of Sneak Attack damage for every 2 points of Hide you have
+2 to all Skills
Permanent Invisibility Guard, as per the item effect
This is a very strong skill that will out-DPS Arborea on everything that you can SA. As there is the SA limit, I do think it should be a bit stronger, though it could possibly afford a nerf to every 3 points of Hide.

Scion of the Astral Plane
+4 to Tactical Feat DCs
+4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
+4% Dodge.
+4 to Reflex Saves.
Unfortunately I consider this to be one of the weakest. There are two things I'd like to see change:
1) Add +4 to dodge and armor cap. Dodge cap is easily reached, making just 4% dodge worthless... especially in heavy armor.
2) A suggestion I liked - 19-20 expanded vorpal. This brings a strong flavor that makes the DPS loss more worth it.

Scion of Elysium
Summoned creatures gain +25 PRR and MRR
Summoned creatures gain +20 MP, RP, and USP
Summoned creatures gain +100% Fortification
Summoned creatures gain a 5% chance to ignore incoming damage entirely. Does not affect any incoming Positive, Negative, or Repair effects.
AI is too frustrating for me to even consider this feat. If anyone were to ever make a Druid/Wiz summon build, sure, maybe... but with AI as it is, self-buffing is always better.

Scion of Arborea
+20 Melee and Ranged Power
+20 Force Spell Power and +20 Universal Spell Power
+2 to the Enhancement Bonus of your weapon
+4 to Fortitude Saves
Strong feat, no changes needed.

Scion of Limbo
+2 Determination Bonus to all Saves
eight buffs, each one minute long. Cycles randomly.
+40 Melee and Ranged power, +80 Spell Power
+16% Doublestrike & Doubleshot, +20% Spell Crit Damage
+30 PRR and MRR
+20% Dodge and +40 Healing Amp
+20 DR /Law
Your weapon/unarmed strikes and spells deal 1d20 Chaos Damage
Each time you would be damaged, you have a +5% chance to completely ignore the damage. Does not affect any incoming Positive, Negative, or Repair effects.
Confetti explodes around your shoulders. Festive!
Nice flavor. What I would like to see is instead of static one-minute cycles to instead have it change on you randomly each time you got hit in combat. Not sure if the client could handle that, and would add an element of skill for people to try and stick in their favorite limbo... but probably would favor ranged/casters too strongly as they could much more easily cheese the hit then just kite.

lyrecono
11-22-2015, 04:14 PM
Hello folks!

Most of the new feats in Update 29 are working in the new Lamannia build, so we'd like to encourage you to try them out, then let us know your thoughts in this thread. This is NOT a thread to provide theory or opinion - Feel free to use our non-Lamannia threads for that. This thread is meant to get direct feedback on the new feats after you've tried them on Lamannia.

See here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438924-Lamannia-Known-Issues-(Last-Updated-11-19-15))for Known Issues related to the feats in this Lamannia pass - Other than those, all of the feats mentioned in this week's threads (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467837-Update-29-Feats-Overview) should be useable.

hey steelstar, you forgot to add melee orientated feats, see comments i made in the lv30 feats thread, at your request

draven1
11-22-2015, 05:30 PM
Scion of the Ethereal Plane
Permanent Blur, and while sneaking, permanent Displacement.
+1 point of Sneak Attack damage for every 2 points of Hide you have
+2 to all Skills
Permanent Invisibility Guard, as per the item effect
This is a very strong skill that will out-DPS Arborea on everything that you can SA. As there is the SA limit, I do think it should be a bit stronger, though it could possibly afford a nerf to every 3 points of Hide.




Don't forget you can't get SA on undead, construct, ooze, etc. Even some classes have SA immune bypass ability, still you can't use it on every mob because it has cooltime or limited use. And if you have aggro, this feat offer 0 DPS, it's situational.

Even Scion of Arborea gives more DPS for SA high build. And it is non situational DPS and can bo boosted by crit. I dont understand why people think Scion of ethereal gives more DPS than Arborea.

DrawingGuy
11-23-2015, 11:05 PM
Don't forget you can't get SA on undead, construct, ooze, etc. Even some classes have SA immune bypass ability, still you can't use it on every mob because it has cooltime or limited use. And if you have aggro, this feat offer 0 DPS, it's situational.

Even Scion of Arborea gives more DPS for SA high build. And it is non situational DPS and can bo boosted by crit. I dont understand why people think Scion of ethereal gives more DPS than Arborea.

Sneak Attack scales 150% with melee power. Let's be conservative with some numbers:

100 Hide for 50 SA
100 Melee Power on 50 SA = 125 SA

20 MP means that you need to do 625 base damage or 416 SA (or a mix there of) to be equitable. This is even more apparent on smaller hit builds like TWF, repeaters, shuricannons, etc. While there are other numbers to consider, and there are certainly situations where Aborea pulls ahead (dump Hide chars, SA immune without bypasses, etc).

As for the CD of bypasses like Assassin's Trick and Unbalancing Strike, they last much longer than the CD... so not only can you easily keep bosses tagged, but can keep multiple mobs as well. And aggro has never been an issue for SA either. With bluff, blinds, multiple stacking deception item types, and methods to make the target helpless, I've always considered adding SA items as straight DPS increases no matter the class (other than spell casters ofc).

If the end game was still just TotDW, FotP, and MOD, I'd agree that Arborea was the flat out best option. However it no longer is, so Ethereal would be stronger in most cases. But both are strong options, and there will be plenty of people that will prefer Arborea to boost force/healing, to avoid situational damage, etc. The only Level 30 feat that I feel needs serious work is Scion of Astral Plane.

draven1
11-24-2015, 06:21 AM
As for the CD of bypasses like Assassin's Trick and Unbalancing Strike, they last much longer than the CD... so not only can you easily keep bosses tagged, but can keep multiple mobs as well. And aggro has never been an issue for SA either. With bluff, blinds, multiple stacking deception item types, and methods to make the target helpless, I've always considered adding SA items as straight DPS increases no matter the class (other than spell casters ofc).

If the end game was still just TotDW, FotP, and MOD, I'd agree that Arborea was the flat out best option. However it no longer is, so Ethereal would be stronger in most cases. But both are strong options, and there will be plenty of people that will prefer Arborea to boost force/healing, to avoid situational damage, etc. The only Level 30 feat that I feel needs serious work is Scion of Astral Plane.

1. Unbalancing Strike never remove SA immunity.

2. Yup, Assassin's Trick last longer than the cooldown, but, you can't use it again within 6 sec. And mobs are not just single.
They are SWARM. So, you can't bypass every mob's SA immunity. Because in 6 sec, the rest of mobs are already dead. At best, its uptime is about 50%.

3. Have you tried bluff on end game EE? It just doesn't work even if you have high skill(with max ranks, cha gear, +20 bluff & exceptional cha gear).

4. Deception? It is helpful. But, it doesn't grant you 100% SA uptime. But, 20 melee power ALWAYS works.
So, Scion of ethereal plane has limited DPS. It looks nice on paper, but, it's not for everyone. IT NEEDS PLAYER SKILL.
That's like why assassin's SA DPS looks really nice on paper, but, it's not everyone's facerolling easy button.
Situational DPS should do significantly higher DPS than always-on DPS. Because you can't keep it always.

ps> If you want to compare DPS, add SA uptime factor. NO ONE can have SA uptime 100%. But, you have melee power ALWAYS.

GeoffWatson
11-24-2015, 06:58 AM
Sneak Attack scales 150% with melee power. Let's be conservative with some numbers:

100 Hide for 50 SA
100 Melee Power on 50 SA = 125 SA


Conservative? 100 Melee Power conservative?

Feats give 2 or 3, an item gives 6, some enhancements give 5 or 10. No way that will get anywhere near 100.

A full Master's Blitz is the only thing that goes anywhere near that much.

Nightmanis
11-24-2015, 07:40 AM
Conservative? 100 Melee Power conservative?

Feats give 2 or 3, an item gives 6, some enhancements give 5 or 10. No way that will get anywhere near 100.

A full Master's Blitz is the only thing that goes anywhere near that much.

121 at all times:
Harper: +15
Assassin: +20 (nimbleness, lethality, deadly shadow)
Toee: +24
wf: slashing +2
gtwf: 6
epic: 24
shadowdancer: 24
Sightless: 6

This was from Saekee's thug build. Gtwf no longer gives mp, but the boost to 30 gives us the +6 we were missing.

TOEE set bonus plus a mythic +2 bonus on the weapon (gives +4mp).

15 Harper includes tier 5, because that build uses the tier 5 improved deception weapon buff.

With blitz you're at 183.

DrawingGuy
11-24-2015, 10:43 AM
1. Unbalancing Strike never remove SA immunity.

2. Yup, Assassin's Trick last longer than the cooldown, but, you can't use it again within 6 sec. And mobs are not just single.
They are SWARM. So, you can't bypass every mob's SA immunity. Because in 6 sec, the rest of mobs are already dead. At best, its uptime is about 50%.

3. Have you tried bluff on end game EE? It just doesn't work even if you have high skill(with max ranks, cha gear, +20 bluff & exceptional cha gear).

4. Deception? It is helpful. But, it doesn't grant you 100% SA uptime. But, 20 melee power ALWAYS works.
So, Scion of ethereal plane has limited DPS. It looks nice on paper, but, it's not for everyone. IT NEEDS PLAYER SKILL.
That's like why assassin's SA DPS looks really nice on paper, but, it's not everyone's facerolling easy button.
Situational DPS should do significantly higher DPS than always-on DPS. Because you can't keep it always.

ps> If you want to compare DPS, add SA uptime factor. NO ONE can have SA uptime 100%. But, you have melee power ALWAYS.

1) Apparently combat logs lie to me. Either way, still allows you to get SA on non-immune even if you have aggro.

2) If mobs are dying before you can use it again, sounds like it wasn't a major concern. Besides, isn't it red/purple names that matter? And on those you can keep it going indefinitely.

3) I have, and I found it to be quite effective. It's the exact same check as Intimidate, except it doesn't face the size modifier penalty (it has a spam penalty against a single target instead), so it's even more effective. The problem it has is not failing in EE, but rather the cast time. Deception items are so effective that there simply is not enough downtime to justify throwing it out, especially in a party.

4) Realize that deception lasts longer than the mob flip time. I have not noticed appreciable SA gaps with my Rogue while having aggro, but then I build for rapid attacks to lay the SA on thick and Deception items have no CD.

I have already stated that SA is not 100%, which is why I do think it should be more damage than Arborea. Whether it is situational enough to justify it's current damage or if it can afford a shave was the point I was making.



Conservative? 100 Melee Power conservative?

Feats give 2 or 3, an item gives 6, some enhancements give 5 or 10. No way that will get anywhere near 100.

A full Master's Blitz is the only thing that goes anywhere near that much.

As Nightmanis covered, there are builds that easily push past 100 without Blitz. With the trend of items having Mytic bonuses that you can get, many class passes getting MP/RP bonuses, increase from level 30, more feats that give bonuses, etc... 100 is definitely a conservative average. Especially considering most players that are going for DPS do run LD getting Master's Blitz. Those that don't are giving up DPS for utility. I wish I could do that for my Monk, but sadly Grandmaster of Flowers is trash. The DC bonus and a trash killer is not even remotely worth doing less than half the damage.

Even if you have dump MP at around 50, that's still 85+ SA damage you're getting from the feat, which still puts it ahead. Really, the question between Arborea and Ethereal comes from two questions: 1) Can you build in Hide, or is it a dump? 2) Are there enough situations where Ethereal will not apply in how you play that Arborea is better?

I'm hoping Astral Plane will be buffed enough that it too can enter the equation (if not DPS wise, util+DPS wise).

Nightmanis
11-24-2015, 03:30 PM
Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane


+4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
+4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
+4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
+4 to Reflex Saves.



You got your wish.

draven1
11-24-2015, 06:35 PM
1) Apparently combat logs lie to me. Either way, still allows you to get SA on non-immune even if you have aggro.



Not gettting SA damage from aggroing & SA immunity are totally different things.
You can't get SA damage on undead with Unbalancing Strike, but you can with Assassin's trick.

DrawingGuy
11-24-2015, 07:42 PM
Not gettting SA damage from aggroing & SA immunity are totally different things.
You can't get SA damage on undead with Unbalancing Strike, but you can with Assassin's trick.

What I meant was when I was hitting Undead and Constructs, I see "Sneak Attack" damage in my combat logs after using Unbalancing Strike. I fully realize qualifying for SA and SA immune are two different things.



You got your wish.

Yes, they did indeed take a look at the feat. They added the needed dodge cap and now made it a Rogue Assassin feat (competing with Ethereal, which is sad as Assassin is the class that would want invis procs the most). While I was hoping for a different direction than that, it does make it a must have for Rogue Assassins, thus guaranteeing the use of the feat. Still would at the very least like to see Max Dex added to it making it a more tempting option for armored tactics users as well as a bit better for Rogues in Light armor.

Nightmanis
11-25-2015, 05:43 AM
Yes, they did indeed take a look at the feat. They added the needed dodge cap and now made it a Rogue Assassin feat (competing with Ethereal, which is sad as Assassin is the class that would want invis procs the most). While I was hoping for a different direction than that, it does make it a must have for Rogue Assassins, thus guaranteeing the use of the feat. Still would at the very least like to see Max Dex added to it making it a more tempting option for armored tactics users as well as a bit better for Rogues in Light armor.

It's kind of a toss up now. You take one because you want brute dps (ethereal) and don't concern yourself with assassinate like i do, or you go more utility with astral.

Sure yeah it'll Def force me into a Dex build, but the odds were stacked against me there anyway.

It'll be interesting to see what I can do and to see what what builds are possible between the new feats and new gear.

maddong
11-27-2015, 07:21 PM
Did anyone confirm that master of water works with niac's biting cold? If I remember right it was one of the spells that was broken and max caster level did not effect....

Sierim
12-04-2015, 08:53 PM
Master of Water does appear to work with Niac's Biting Cold.

Unfortunately, Master of Earth appears to either break acid blast or the SLA is currently bugged on Lam.

Silverleafeon
12-04-2015, 09:01 PM
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438926-Lamannia-Release-Notes-(Last-Updated-12-4-15)

this answered my questions ty

draven1
12-05-2015, 01:54 AM
Scion of the Ethereal Plane

Permanent Blur
+1 point of Sneak Attack damage for every 3 points of Hide you have
+4 to all Skills
Permanent Invisibility Guard, as per the item effect


Weaker DPS than Scion of Arborea & no defense(even gears give perma lessor displacement, not blur), crappy skill, crappy guard
Is there any reason to take this legendary feat now?
Don't add a feat that nobody would take.

brzytki
12-05-2015, 04:25 AM
Scion of the Ethereal Plane

Permanent Blur
+1 point of Sneak Attack damage for every 3 points of Hide you have
+4 to all Skills
Permanent Invisibility Guard, as per the item effect


Weaker DPS than Scion of Arborea & no defense(even gears give perma lessor displacement, not blur), crappy skill, crappy guard
Is there any reason to take this legendary feat now?
Don't add a feat that nobody would take.

Yup, if that's gonna go live there's no point in taking it.
Permanent Blur? With the abundance of items that already grant it (tier II GS to name one) and will grant it (new armors from U29 for example) there's no point to it. Much like Blinding Speed feat is now.
+1 SA / 3 Hide - there was no need to nerf it
+4 skills - meh, it's not like you won't be able to OL, DD, Search, UMD w/o that bonus so really meh
Permanent Invisibility Guard - i don't see it as useful as it was when introduced, partly because of champions. They mostly have TS so they negate any concealment bonuses you have, hit you, the guard procs and they still see you because of their TS, so really no point. Might be somewhat useful if fighting 1-2 mobs at most but if fighting more, you'll inevitably just bump into mobs, triggering the red eye, so no point too.

I thought you'd upgrade Blur to Lesser Displacement (as we already have items that grant it not to mention scrolls and wands), get rid of "displaced while sneaking" (and you did) as it was pointless as most posters pointed out and in its place put something useful (like assassinate DC), trim a little SA dmg (as you did but it really should stay 1 SA/2 Hide if you didn't improve the other aspects of this feat).

Overall, this feat is now not worth taking. The only classes this feat is good for are the ones that can get 100+ Hide that means rangers and rogues. I don't think any ranger would take it, mostly because other feats are better suited for them and it'd be only for SA dmg as other bonuses on this feat are not useful for them. If you have an assassin you'll want to take Scion of Astral Plane because of the DC boost you placed there - by placing it (+4 DC boost) in a feat you made it a must-have feat for that archetype of a rogue. Plus there's 4% doublestrike, +4% Dodge and +4 Dodge Cap and +4 Reflex save to sweeten the deal, bringing your defenses higher than Scion of Ethereal Plane. If you have a brute force type of rogue you'll be taking Scion of Arborea for its MP, weapon enhancement bonus.

So i'm not happy about it because i've always wanted a rogue class to be not only about DPS, higher stats and so on but to have flavor, to be able to use some tricks and abilities that are not outright tied to gaining power, abilities that would help them overcome enemies in not typical way aka "DPS down". (invisibility guard is an example of such an ability).

Astarii
12-05-2015, 04:58 AM
[MASTER OF FIRE/AIR/EARTH/XXX]

I'm annoyed as a caster on some of the new epic feats, its like some get things really good such as druids +10 levels to word of balance and call lightning, which it should and they are really cool, or for fire a bonus to scorch & fireball, BUT then Ice, Air and death gets gets the raw end.

For example, where is ICE? can I not use ice storm at +10 levels? (niacs cold ray, Frost lance & Ice Storm) maybe ?.
Air - WHERE IS Chain lightning? ...

Death ... Really this is what we are looking at... (ok this might be harder game balance wise then Air & ice.. but surely they can be creative here.)

Lastly, what about prismatic, or general things as well.

ok... maybe not being done, getting back to fire... it would be nice for firewall. its not like it moves at all.

PERHAPS WE COULD JUST HAVE THEM EFFECT THE ELEMENT, instead of just effecting the limited 3 spells in the list... or renaming it to just a MASTER OF 3 SPELLS OF A ELEMENT



Another caster observation.
just curious on how far we have gone on balancing stuff... are people running around with BB, Firewalls, Wail of the banshee & Finger of Death in Epic Elites... Yes I know they are used but not nearly like it was in the past when lvl cap was 20, perhaps some of it is due to high of DCs for things and others just a lake of damage being deal. i'm sure i'll get people saying, ya I use that all the time but to me it seam like there is 2 categories for spells and that's PRE-EPIC & EPIC... and I personally disagree with this. It also seems like this does not change, even with the feats added

Tlorrd
12-05-2015, 05:33 AM
NEW: Master of Alignment – Minimum level 24: Your Holy Smite, Deific Vengeance, Unholy Blight, Chaos Hammer, and Order’s Wrath spells get +10 to their Maximum Caster Level.Grants +140 Maximum Spell Points

While I appreciate this feat ... I must plead the case of adding Flame Strike to whichever Master's feat will carry Holy Smite. Every other Master's feat for the most part includes a tier 5 enhancement SLA ... in this feat Holy Smite is the only SLA and the rest are based off of Caster level/2 for the most part. If these other spells were SLAs, this would be a different story; however, again I feel divines are getting the shaft in that their tier 5 SLA is not included ...

For instance ....

Master of Earth: Tier 5 Acid Blast 1d3+3 = Base damage 5, Spell point cost 6, Cooldown 6 seconds
Master of Fire: Tier 5 Fireball 1d3+3 = Base damage 5, Spell point cost 6, Cooldown 6 seconds
Master of Artifice: Tier 5 Lightning Motes 1d3+3 = Base damage 5, Spell point cost 6, Cooldown 6 seconds

Flame Strike: Tier 5 1d3+1d3 = Base damage 4, Spell point cost 20, Cooldown 12 seconds

So as you can see, the base damage is actually less, spell point cost is more, and cooldown is longer ... at least throw Divines a bone and add Flame strike because that is all we really have as a tier 5 SLA at this point. Also I know one starts with MCL 15 and the others are MCL 10, but for the most part savants get multiple additional MCL and DD get 1.

Astarii
12-05-2015, 06:27 AM
This might not be the right spot to post, but... if one does not have the SLA and/or Spell can wizard/sorc/whatever still pick the given feat? Such as if I'm a Sorc, and pick Master of the Wild ... its 100% useless right? (again another reason why it should just effect the entire sphere such as Evocation, Summoning, Enchantment charm, Illusion... ect.. or Element such as Fire, Air, Ice, Alignment, etc...)

Wizza
12-05-2015, 06:50 AM
Commenting after testing with my Air savant.

- Arcane Pulse needs a higher cooldown and to be toned down a bit in damage. You literally cannot ever lose this dot with a 3s CD which is awful.

- Wellspring of Power: I like it. It gives some burst damage and the CD is long enough so that you cannot spam it. Agreed on the shorter animation, just a tiny bit shorter, not instant.

- Arcane Insight: I'd like a CD reduction here from 180 seconds to 140/150. While for damage it's understandable to have a longer damage, not so much for DC.

- Burst of Glacial Wrath: absolutely love this new spell. New animation pls? :)

- Intesify spell: Good.

- Master of XXX: most are bugged, fix.

- Greater Ruin: delete this OP feat. Details in the General Discussion of Lama.

- Scion of the Plane Fire: Very good. Maybe a bit too much?

- Scion of the Plane Water: awful. +200 SP is useless. Needs an unique improvement, like the 25% Spell crit damage on the fire one. Maybe add a XdX cold damage on every cold spell that scales with Spellpower?

- Other kind of Scions for casters: mostly are good but either bring down Fire or improve everything else to be as good as Fire. I took SoPFire even on my Air/Cold savant. Either give all of these something unique or tone down the Spell crit damage.

Chette
12-05-2015, 02:04 PM
I see that as I suggested earlier sunbeam has been replaced with divine punishment in the Master of Light feat in the newest release. This is excellent news, thank you for paying attention to player feedback! However, I see that the increase is only 10 caster levels?? Is this new or did I miss this earlier? Why are light spells being increased only 10 levels, while elemental spells are being fully uncapped? This makes no sense, divine casters are already behind arcanes in terms of damage output. What is the reason for them being singled out like this?

I also want to strongly urge you to also include holy smite, as in the current incarnation offensive casting divines are still very far behind their arcane counterparts. There is no reason for this to be separated out into a separate feat for alignment damage. It is an SLA available to light-aligned clerics, and should be included in master of light.

Divine casters have a dearth of AoE spells, and holy smite is the only AoE spell that can be cast with any regularity for a reasonable spell point cost. All of the elemental "Master of X" feats include at least one area of effect SLA. Fire and earth schools actually give 3 and 2 AoE SLAs respectively. Again, why is Master of Light singled out?

For all of the elemental "Master of X" feats at least two SLAs are included, while for the Master of Light feat still only a single SLA accessible to light-aligned clerics is included. Given that divine casters are already behind arcane casters in terms of damage output, increasing that gap with these new feats is moving in a very bad direction. Including holy smite, available to clerics as an SLA and to favored souls as a spell (hopefully eventually as an SLA, or perhaps with an additional feat/spell combo once the new FVS tree is added) in Master of Light will go a long way towards increasing divine casters viability in epic content, where the trend continues to move further and further towards large masses of mobs, and where AoE damage is critical. Please do not leave divine casters even further towards the back of the pack in terms of damage output potential.

I would love to get some dev response explaining why the Master of Light feat is so different from the other master of element feats in THREE different aspects: not having any sort of AOE, not affecting more than 1 SLA, and not having a total uncapping of the spells. Why is this feat so drastically less powerful than the respective elemental feast?

searcher15
12-05-2015, 03:32 PM
I see a tiny problem with the "Scion of X" feats. We have no option to turn off the dmg part.
For example, I have taken the Scion of plane of earth feat. This gives me nice Acid dmg on each hit, scaled with my spell power.
But, assume I go hunting clay golems. Now my every hit HEALS the monster, and I can't disable it.
Please make it a toggle, so players can control when to turn on the extra dmg. The dmg part is cool, but we need some kind of control over it.

Basura_Grande
12-05-2015, 05:57 PM
Please give the Scion of Aborea's +2 Enhancment bonus an on/off toggle so it doesn't break Celestia.

Tlorrd
12-05-2015, 06:41 PM
I see that as I suggested earlier sunbeam has been replaced with divine punishment in the Master of Light feat in the newest release. This is excellent news, thank you for paying attention to player feedback! However, I see that the increase is only 10 caster levels?? Is this new or did I miss this earlier? Why are light spells being increased only 10 levels, while elemental spells are being fully uncapped? This makes no sense, divine casters are already behind arcanes in terms of damage output. What is the reason for them being singled out like this?

I also want to strongly urge you to also include holy smite, as in the current incarnation offensive casting divines are still very far behind their arcane counterparts. There is no reason for this to be separated out into a separate feat for alignment damage. It is an SLA available to light-aligned clerics, and should be included in master of light.

Divine casters have a dearth of AoE spells, and holy smite is the only AoE spell that can be cast with any regularity for a reasonable spell point cost. All of the elemental "Master of X" feats include at least one area of effect SLA. Fire and earth schools actually give 3 and 2 AoE SLAs respectively. Again, why is Master of Light singled out?

For all of the elemental "Master of X" feats at least two SLAs are included, while for the Master of Light feat still only a single SLA accessible to light-aligned clerics is included. Given that divine casters are already behind arcane casters in terms of damage output, increasing that gap with these new feats is moving in a very bad direction. Including holy smite, available to clerics as an SLA and to favored souls as a spell (hopefully eventually as an SLA, or perhaps with an additional feat/spell combo once the new FVS tree is added) in Master of Light will go a long way towards increasing divine casters viability in epic content, where the trend continues to move further and further towards large masses of mobs, and where AoE damage is critical. Please do not leave divine casters even further towards the back of the pack in terms of damage output potential.

I would love to get some dev response explaining why the Master of Light feat is so different from the other master of element feats in THREE different aspects: not having any sort of AOE, not affecting more than 1 SLA, and not having a total uncapping of the spells. Why is this feat so drastically less powerful than the respective elemental feast?

Totally agree ... As SLAs for divines are slim ... just give one feat including those or 2 feats with at least 2 SLAs in each ...

Master of Light: Searing Light, Sun Bolt, Divine Punishment, Sunburst
Master of Alignment: Deific Vengeance, Orders Wrath, Holy Smite, Flame Strike

or

Master of Divine: Searing Light, Holy Smite, Flame Strike, and (either/both Divine Punishment/Sun Bolt)

I mean if you look at the Master of Wilds, you gave 4 spells which are all SLAs for Druids but have no real tie together other than being druid SLAs ... they use different elements, etc.

Eddexp
12-05-2015, 09:17 PM
it does not work with bows?would be cool you can use to zoom in and get away from mobs.

Silverleafeon
12-05-2015, 10:55 PM
Where did the master of alignment feat disappear to?
It was listed in the release notes then disappeared?
Not on lamania (I'm making a favored soul atm).

Why is intensify spell still listed for 25 sp, when its a copy and paste error and should be 15 sp, as per Steel's comment?

Unsmitten
12-05-2015, 11:21 PM
Dire Charge seems to be broken atm, it's basically just a 25 second CD abundant step since the damage/stun portion isn't working.


Edit: seems you must have a weapon equiped for it to work, bare hands/wraps don't work with it

Silverleafeon
12-06-2015, 06:13 AM
Looking greensteel all over.

Fire, cold, acid, electric, positive, negative

Big bonuses on weapon to stats

ect

This is tradition and makes sense to me.
It makes TF (that has force, sonic, etc) different from greensteel.

However, I will ask for a bone for divine and explain why:


Master of Alignment was Holy Smite, Chaos Hammer, Order's Wrath, Unholy Blight, Defict Vengence
I will point out that is only two good spells in most dungeons, because most dungeons have an alignment pattern.
Trust me, I have had divines with all four of the level four alignement spells and typically I only cast one of them.
So, please throw divine a big bone and add Flamestrike to the Master of Alignment while leaving the other five spells already in the feat still there.

Building a Favored Soul, I have found there is definitely room to take two Master of ____ feats in such a build.

Thanks for listening.


PS I sure would like to see:

Tome of Epic Destiny Points (add +1 point to spend in epic destinies per plus)
Tome of Enhancement Points (add +1 point to spend in enhancement per plus)

Even if they only went to +2 or +3 it would be a nice addition to the game w/o too much power creep.
Make sure they drop in game as well as DDO store.

Silverleafeon
12-06-2015, 06:18 AM
I like Arcane Plus, if it stays as is, it will be a bread and butter spell for quite a few of my toons.
Easy to get running, easy to keep up while using other spells, and very efficient spell point wise.

Tlorrd
12-06-2015, 06:19 AM
Looking greensteel all over.

Fire, cold, acid, electric, positive, negative

Big bonuses on weapon to stats

ect

This is tradition and makes sense to me.
It makes TF (that has force, sonic, etc) different from greensteel.

However, I will ask for a bone for divine and explain why:


Master of Alignment was Holy Smite, Chaos Hammer, Order's Wrath, Unholy Blight, Defict Vengence
I will point out that is only two good spells in most dungeons, because most dungeons have an alignment pattern.
Trust me, I have had divines with all four of the level four alignement spells and typically I only cast one of them.
So, please throw divine a big bone and add Flamestrike to the Master of Alignment while leaving the other five spells already in the feat still there.

Building a Favored Soul, I have found there is definitely room to take two Master of ____ feats in such a build.

Thanks for listening.


PS I sure would like to see:

Tome of Epic Destiny Points (add +1 point to spend in epic destinies per plus)
Tome of Enhancement Points (add +1 point to spend in enhancement per plus)

Even if they only went to +2 or +3 it would be a nice addition to the game w/o too much power creep.
Make sure they drop in game as well as DDO store.

The other feat I pointed out to devs in a previous post could be ...

Master of divine: searing light, holy smite, flame strike, (either/both) divine punishment/sun bolt

Vhayre
12-06-2015, 10:24 AM
Commenting on the feats I've tested

Master of the dead
States in the thread it raises max caster level on Chill Touch, Necrotic Ray and Negative Energy Burst, but the tooltip on Lamannia states Chill Touch, Death Aura and Negative Energy Burst. Which one is it?

Testing gave the following results with a fresh lvl 24 wizard, caster level of 27 on all 3 spells and around 240 spell power:

Negative Energy Burst works with this feat. The damage on it went from 250 - 300 non crit to 450 - 500.
Death Aura does NOT work. The output numbers remained exactly the same with and without the feat.
Necrotic Ray did not seem to work either. Damage remained somewhere between 900 and 1k with and without the feat.
Chill Touch... did not test. Does anyone use this spell besides sahuagin casters?

My suggestion would be fix the broken part and change the feat to raise caster level on Negative Energy Burst, Death Aura and Necrotic Ray.


Arcane Warrior
Hitting stuff increases spell power, that part works.
Casting offensive spells however, some things seem off there:

Fireball works, but one doesn't generally spend time casting a few fireballs at mobs to hit harder.
Death Aura does nothing, not even the first tick. No procs whatsoever.
Persistant AoE spells like Cloudkill and Ice Storm only count the first tick.
Flaming Sphere does nothing.
Hitting mobs with Fire Shield does nothing.
Blast damage from EK cleave does not work. I can understand this one since it counts as a melee cleave I guess.
Warlock Aura works.

Please have this work with death aura and/or persistant AoEs, wizards and sorcs have an entire enhancement tree devoted to the concept of combining spellcasting and meleeing, they should not be forced to take a level of warlock just to be able to sustain this feat, which really seemed to have been designed for the playstyle at first.


Scion of the Shadowfell
Works, seems in the right place mostly.


Embolden Spell
This works too, and it shows the DC increase on the spell tooltips. :)


Intensify Spell
Works, but it's basically a slightly cheaper version of empower.


Dreamscape
I've been hitting this every minute for a while to see the buffs it gives and I'm underwhelmed. These are the 30 second buffs I have gotten so far:

+6 to all skills. Very situational.
+6 to a single save. Might be useful if it's +6 to all saves.
+20 energy resistance. Meh
DR 18/-. Can be decent on characters not wearing shadow defender armor.
Sprint boost. Fun, can help you get away... if you happen to get it at the right time.
+15 AC, PRR, MRR. Decent, solid if you happen to have AC in a range where it matters.
+30 Melee/Ranged power, +60 Spell power. Nice

A bit torn on the mechanic, if you want to keep these buffs up you spend 5 seconds every minute doing nothing. Cycling through the buffs or making one apply immediately on activating the ability and removing the 5 seconds pike time would be much less of a pain.
If it's meant as a panic button instead, because you can become invulnerable for 5 seconds and then get a buff, that might be better achieved by making all the buffs focused on defenses and possibly beefing them up a bit.

I must say though, the dream descriptions when you mouse over the buff add a nice bit of flavor.


Burst of Glacial Wrath
I like the idea, but I must be doing something wrong. With a moderate, but not horrible 500 spell power and Empower, Maximize and Intensify active on it I just can't get it to hit higher than about 800. I get it, it freezes stuff so it doesn't have to one shot everything, but this seems a tad low.


Arcane Pulse
This should help with boss dps a bit, I do not think it is too strong for the sp cost since metamagics increase it.


That's it for now, been mainly testing on casters this weekend.

Deltoideus
12-06-2015, 10:51 AM
Scion of the Ethereal Plane.
In general or combat log is says. "you get 1/2 of ur hide skill to sneak attack dmg." not sure if this is just a display bug or not since it should be 1/3 of hide skill.

Arcance warrior
The universal power increase doenst work with shurikens.

Dreamscape
Having a hard time deciding whenever this one is useful..maybe if you had a "offense buffs" or "defense buffs" option or something. I dont like the 5s Tea party of standingstill when u cast it. But it is working as intended.

Dire Charge
Doesnt work with ranged weapons (maybe WAI). The basedmg when ur in avatar treefolk mode and do this attack doesnt scale correctly. kinda like paladins enchantments cleaves. U should do around 1k dmg on one hit but instead u do 200 something.

New armors
The armors descriptions inst correct yet. I also had like weird doubleshoot increases when i slotted one of those. I had an increase of 2.57% DS. 47.57% Doubleshoot? ;p IM thinking its either a display bug or maybe its becasue of the randomized loot system?

otherwise i see some new cool stuff! keep up the good work!

Silverleafeon
12-06-2015, 11:16 AM
The other feat I pointed out to devs in a previous post could be ...

Master of divine: searing light, holy smite, flame strike, (either/both) divine punishment/sun bolt

Overlapping feats might be nice to allow choices

phalaeo
12-07-2015, 01:57 AM
Tried on my Warlock:

Arcane Pulse (3 Arcane Destinies)
Spell: A magical pulse of force reverberates through the target's body, dealing 3d6+6 force damage every 2 seconds for a duration of 16 seconds. This spell can stack on the target up to 5 times, increasing the damage with each stack. 3 second cooldown
It does a nice bit of damage, but I'm not overly compelled to take it.


Tried on both my Swashbuckler and PDK Warchanter:

Dreamscape (2 Primal+ 1 Arcane)
Activate to pop off to the land of dreams. You are invulnerable and invisible for five seconds, then return with a random 30-second buff. 1 minute cooldown.
This was the feat I was most excited to try (along with Limbo), but I didn't like it as much as I was expecting. Each time you use it, you're frozen in place for 5 seconds? For a 30 second buff? In the groups I run in, the mobs would be dead in the 5 seconds, and I'd be trying to catch up while my buff ticks away. 5 seconds is a big loss in DPS when DPS matters. Positive note- This could actually be very useful... not for the buff, but for removing you from combat. Tactics. But to improve the feat, I'd allow for longer buff duration, even if you have to increase the cooldown. I would change the floaty text to have the properties of the buff, not the name.

Scion of the Plane of Earth
+4 to the DCs of Conjuration spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
+20 PRR
+10 Acid Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
Add 2d20 Acid damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
Tried this out on my Warchanter using a Legendary Greensteel with 6d6 acid dmg/hit, +37 Exceptional Acid Spellpower, and Acid Burst damage. Tested with 380 Acid Spellpower total. Freezy-Cleave + this combo is a lot of fun. This actually got me my fastest speeds on the Kobold, so better melee DPS, +30 to my positive spellpower for cures, and +20 PRR? I don't care about the Conjuration DC stuff, I'm sold.

Scion of Arborea
+20 Melee and Ranged Power
+20 Force Spell Power and +20 Universal Spell Power
+2 to the Enhancement Bonus of your weapon
+4 to Fortitude Saves
Tried on my Swashbuckler in LDreadnaught. I got higher numbers on my melee damage. Cures were slightly bigger. It's a balanced, well designed feat, but it ain't sexy. Nothing to complain about here, but it's not my first choice.


Scion of Limbo
+2 Determination Bonus to all Saves
eight buffs, each one minute long. Cycles randomly.
+40 Melee and Ranged power, +80 Spell Power
+16% Doublestrike & Doubleshot, +20% Spell Crit Damage
+30 PRR and MRR
+20% Dodge and +40 Healing Amp
+20 DR /Law
Your weapon/unarmed strikes and spells deal 1d20 Chaos Damage
Each time you would be damaged, you have a +5% chance to completely ignore the damage. Does not affect any incoming Positive, Negative, or Repair effects.
Confetti explodes around your shoulders. Festive!
I love random buffs. This feat is a ton of fun, but not very practical. I want to take it so bad, though.

Vanhooger
12-07-2015, 06:16 AM
Commenting after testing with my Air savant.

- Arcane Pulse needs a higher cooldown and to be toned down a bit in damage. You literally cannot ever lose this dot with a 3s CD which is awful.


Can I ask you why damage should be toned down? I didn't see all that big numbers.
I was on a bard spellsinger 440 force spell power (no metamagic included) and I was hitting for 3k-3,5k at max stack of 5. This should help caster with sp conservation on boss who have 300+ k hp, if it's toned down in damage I don't see the point for this feat that as well with all metamagic and all bard discount to sp still cost 60 sp a cast, it's not making blue bar more efficent at all. You cast it 5 time for 300sp.

I agree with thte cooldown, too short.

Wizza
12-07-2015, 07:05 AM
Can I ask you why damage should be toned down? I didn't see all that big numbers.
I was on a bard spellsinger 440 force spell power (no metamagic included) and I was hitting for 3k-3,5k at max stack of 5. This should help caster with sp conservation on boss who have 300+ k hp, if it's toned down in damage I don't see the point for this feat that as well with all metamagic and all bard discount to sp still cost 60 sp a cast, it's not making blue bar more efficent at all. You cast it 5 time for 300sp.

I agree with thte cooldown, too short.

It's basically a dot that you will never, ever lose. It decays also 1 stack at the time, it has a 3s cooldown and 3.5k on a non-force specced build is kinda a lot. In my duo shroud run, I had dot up, died, came back to life and the dot was still going. Either nerf BOTH the cd and the decay, losing 2 stacks instead of 1 at the time and a 8s CD or tone down the damage and keep it going forever. You can't have both.

Also, not sure why everyone forgot how to play a caster. Lesser Maximize + Litany = 2 casts of the DoT for 21 SP each. You can have 5 stacks for around 100 SP-140 SP and then throw one more stack when the fifth one is decaying every 15 seconds.

Let's not forget that these 300+k HP bosses that everyone likes to throw around lately are not meant to be killed by you and yourself only. You are not required to do 280k by yourself. Casters are already getting +10 MCL to some spells, as well as Greater Ruin, more SP, SP discounts, Spell Crit damage and more Spellpower.

I don't want casters to be the new OP FoTM warlocks/Rangers/Barbarians.

Vanhooger
12-07-2015, 07:17 AM
It's basically a dot that you will never, ever lose. It decays also 1 stack at the time, it has a 3s cooldown and 3.5k on a non-force specced build is kinda a lot. In my duo shroud run, I had dot up, died, came back to life and the dot was still going. Either nerf BOTH the cd and the decay, losing 2 stacks instead of 1 at the time and a 8s CD or tone down the damage and keep it going forever. You can't have both.

Also, not sure why everyone forgot how to play a caster. Lesser Maximize + Litany = 2 casts of the DoT for 21 SP each. You can have 5 stacks for around 100 SP-140 SP and then throw one more stack when the fifth one is decaying every 15 seconds.

Let's not forget that these 300+k HP bosses that everyone likes to throw around lately are not meant to be killed by you and yourself only. You are not required to do 280k by yourself. Casters are already getting +10 MCL to some spells, as well as Greater Ruin, more SP, SP discounts, Spell Crit damage and more Spellpower.

I don't want casters to be the new OP FoTM warlocks/Rangers/Barbarians.

While I agree with you, with lesser maximize & litany (lesser heighten too) that I use a lot, but usually I tend to use them for hellball in big group of mob & ruin for single traget with high hp. I'm not sure that you'll have enough clicky to make that feat not too expensive. I don't know new raid but if there is no shrine like latest raid, I don't see sp conservation happening.

I also agree with you that you don't have to take down a mobof 300k alone but while ranged (like I am now) doing 20-25k x3 on a slayer arrow or 3k crit every few second (no sp needed) as a melee, do you really think 3k on that dot is way too much?

As well, if you're in party by the time you get 5 stack running most red named will be dead already.

Astarii
12-07-2015, 07:46 AM
When we are looking at "Game Balance" is the with current play, or possibly with the Torment and future game play? because i'm sure Greensteel would have been looked at as extremely over powered at one point and if these feats are the "Top" feats in the future... Well, personally I would be looking at total usability for future content.

btw, I'm also glad to the weapon type dart out. It just also keeps my hope for the deep gnome / svirfneblin thrower w/ darts

Tlorrd
12-07-2015, 08:03 AM
It's basically a dot that you will never, ever lose. It decays also 1 stack at the time, it has a 3s cooldown and 3.5k on a non-force specced build is kinda a lot. In my duo shroud run, I had dot up, died, came back to life and the dot was still going. Either nerf BOTH the cd and the decay, losing 2 stacks instead of 1 at the time and a 8s CD or tone down the damage and keep it going forever. You can't have both.

Also, not sure why everyone forgot how to play a caster. Lesser Maximize + Litany = 2 casts of the DoT for 21 SP each. You can have 5 stacks for around 100 SP-140 SP and then throw one more stack when the fifth one is decaying every 15 seconds.

Let's not forget that these 300+k HP bosses that everyone likes to throw around lately are not meant to be killed by you and yourself only. You are not required to do 280k by yourself. Casters are already getting +10 MCL to some spells, as well as Greater Ruin, more SP, SP discounts, Spell Crit damage and more Spellpower.

I don't want casters to be the new OP FoTM warlocks/Rangers/Barbarians.

3.5k is fairly paltry for the spell point cost even with clickies. I mean ES burst/blast combine for ~3.5k every 5 secs and that never runs out.

Vanhooger
12-07-2015, 08:21 AM
3.5k is fairly paltry for the spell point cost even with clickies. I mean ES burst/blast combine for ~3.5k every 5 secs and that never runs out.

Also ES burst/blast are Aoe. This is single target.

3,5k aoe every 5 sec, NO sp versus 3,5k single target for 60-70sp(or 20 with clicky).

Wizza
12-07-2015, 09:19 AM
While I agree with you, with lesser maximize & litany (lesser heighten too) that I use a lot, but usually I tend to use them for hellball in big group of mob & ruin for single traget with high hp. I'm not sure that you'll have enough clicky to make that feat not too expensive. I don't know new raid but if there is no shrine like latest raid, I don't see sp conservation happening.

I also agree with you that you don't have to take down a mobof 300k alone but while ranged (like I am now) doing 20-25k x3 on a slayer arrow or 3k crit every few second (no sp needed) as a melee, do you really think 3k on that dot is way too much?

As well, if you're in party by the time you get 5 stack running most red named will be dead already.

What new raid? Shroud is..shroud, HoX and Tempest spine are the same, with the same shrines. In a group, in shroud, you should never run out of mana unless you do something absolutely wrong.

And yes, I think other classes are overperforming. That doesn't mean that I want the same with casters. Just because everyone enjoys their OP little easy buttons, that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.


3.5k is fairly paltry for the spell point cost even with clickies. I mean ES burst/blast combine for ~3.5k every 5 secs and that never runs out.

What's ES burst/blast? The Warlock ones? Because if so, that is so frigging OP that I wouldn't use it as a comparison. 3.5k A TIC with just 440 Spellpower is pretty good actually. Let's not forget we are talking about a dot that tics 7-8 TIMES.

I still think this DoT needs some kind of little nerf. Cooldown, damage or stack decaying, pick one or two. If Devs don't agree, it's up to them. (I already see them nerfing all 3 of these things and make this feat useless in typical Turbine fashion :p )

Vanhooger
12-07-2015, 09:30 AM
What new raid? Shroud is..shroud, HoX and Tempest spine are the same, with the same shrines. In a group, in shroud, you should never run out of mana unless you do something absolutely wrong.

And yes, I think other classes are overperforming. That doesn't mean that I want the same with casters. Just because everyone enjoys their OP little easy buttons, that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.



What's ES burst/blast? The Warlock ones? Because if so, that is so frigging OP that I wouldn't use it as a comparison. 3.5k A TIC with just 440 Spellpower is pretty good actually. Let's not forget we are talking about a dot that tics 7-8 TIMES.

I still think this DoT needs some kind of little nerf. Cooldown, damage or stack decaying, pick one or two. If Devs don't agree, it's up to them. (I already see them nerfing all 3 of these things and make this feat useless in typical Turbine fashion :p )

I don't know why you're post always look like kind of personal attack but I will give an answer.

Shroud is shroud, thanks to let me know that. I didn't play legendary version so they could have changed something, as well for shrine, placement or removal, I can't see the future yet.
I will never play something that is too far away from overperforming class, what's the point? If you like to gimp yourself, just don't use equip or Epic destiny. I don't say that caster should be OP, but at least enjoyable at end game. That dot is nowhere OP by far.

Wizza
12-07-2015, 09:49 AM
I don't know why you're post always look like kind of personal attack but I will give an answer.

Shroud is shroud, thanks to let me know that. I didn't play legendary version so they could have changed something, as well for shrine, placement or removal, I can't see the future yet.

Well, you said "new raid". There is no such thing. Either way, there is no personal attack.



I will never play something that is too far away from overperforming class, what's the point? If you like to gimp yourself, just don't use equip or Epic destiny. I don't say that caster should be OP, but at least enjoyable at end game. That dot is nowhere OP by far.

And that is your choice. If you like to play overperforming classes with obviously broken abilities, I don't really care. The problem arises when you think that the overperforming classes/abilities become the norm and used as a standard measure of power i.e. your example comparing this dot to ES Burst/Blast or Slayer arrows doing 2M damage or whatever else you mentioned.

I'm just explaining you why I think it needs to be toned down. You don't agree, okay!

LiquidZombie
12-07-2015, 09:57 AM
Master of the dead
States in the thread it raises max caster level on Chill Touch, Necrotic Ray and Negative Energy Burst, but the tooltip on Lamannia states Chill Touch, Death Aura and Negative Energy Burst. Which one is it?

My suggestion would be fix the broken part and change the feat to raise caster level on Negative Energy Burst, Death Aura and Necrotic Ray.

Necrotic Ray doesn't have a cap. Since this was pointed out several times to the developers, they seem to have switched it to Death Aura (which was capped at CL20), although it seems from your testing that the change hasn't actually been implemented.

janave
12-07-2015, 10:07 AM
When will there be enough content to support this power jump from the +1 to single stat -> +4 (into multiple stats)?

These feats create a major power-gap where players wont have much use aside the very top level content in u29.

I'd suggest dropping most stats to +2/~10% /or/ working with a trade off system eg: +4/-4 to offset some of the dps by giving up defense, or the other way around.

Mryal
12-07-2015, 10:17 AM
No one has given feedback about this yet so here goes:

Master of the Wilds - The feat is an attempt to help out with the druid situation but honestly it is pretty poor.The worst part is i cant suggest another spell to replace it, there just isnt, the main issue is that in order for this feat to work you have to be in a primal epic destiny and the primal epic destinies are pretty poor for druid.Druid caster has several issues as is, youre forced to either specc for fire and then have not so meaningfull spells for damage that wont even work now with all the fire hate on the new content, or stuck with ice using one spell that is Transmutation school.
Even the SLA's are situational.Produce Flame SLA will not work on pretty much anything now, creeping cold is a dot, Word of Balance is the most situational damage spell of the whole game.Call lightning is the only reliable SLA, boosting these spells is far from beign a solution for the class.
Druid needs it's 3rd tree, new spells, new elemental forms, and even its ED - rework Primal Avatar so it actualy does something usefull for a druid, people arent using it for a reason, its a terribly designed epic destiny.I'd really like to keep playing druid but i cant justify making a class just to use one CC spell, where nowadays CC is losing its uses with the tons of red nameds in raids, or the immunites in HoX.

Master of Artifice, Scion of the plane of Air - While im officialy retiring my druid, im at the same time reviving my old Artificer.With the recent ranged changes, and now Rune Arms FINNALY using your whole Evocation bonuses, artificer is really fun and effective.Master of Artifice helps making the SLA's more usefull ,its not something game breaking as much as it is for arcanes, but its definetly helpfull.Plane of Air thought, is insane for Artificer, i doubt theres any class that can get more advantage out of it as Artificer (with a repeater) uses it in full, not only the DC boost but also the electric damage on hit wich is considerably noticeable.The class still needs its 3rd tree thought, and at least some boost in Evocation DC.

Arcane Warrior - This feat is not giving me spellpower while i shoot with a repeater.The description says 'weapon and unarmed attacks', it does not mention anything about ranged weapons not working.Either update the description or fix it so ranged will work too.Frankly i dont see why not allowing ranged, works well with both Artificer and the recently revamped AA.

Tlorrd
12-07-2015, 03:02 PM
No one has given feedback about this yet so here goes:

Master of the Wilds - The feat is an attempt to help out with the druid situation but honestly it is pretty poor.The worst part is i cant suggest another spell to replace it, there just isnt, the main issue is that in order for this feat to work you have to be in a primal epic destiny and the primal epic destinies are pretty poor for druid.Druid caster has several issues as is, youre forced to either specc for fire and then have not so meaningfull spells for damage that wont even work now with all the fire hate on the new content, or stuck with ice using one spell that is Transmutation school.
Even the SLA's are situational.Produce Flame SLA will not work on pretty much anything now, creeping cold is a dot, Word of Balance is the most situational damage spell of the whole game.Call lightning is the only reliable SLA, boosting these spells is far from beign a solution for the class.
Druid needs it's 3rd tree, new spells, new elemental forms, and even its ED - rework Primal Avatar so it actualy does something usefull for a druid, people arent using it for a reason, its a terribly designed epic destiny.I'd really like to keep playing druid but i cant justify making a class just to use one CC spell, where nowadays CC is losing its uses with the tons of red nameds in raids, or the immunites in HoX.

At least druid master feat covers almost all their SLAs ... And when I ran druid lives, I had a set of equipment for summer and a set for winter. So it was fairly easy to spec for both in the same life. Divines now have to spend two feats to cover their SLAs ... :(

Miightyy
12-16-2015, 04:26 PM
Dear Devs,

Maybe you will consider the following change to the Deific Warding (3 Divine Destinies) feat:

Would you also add the miss chance to proc the additional stacks? In Legendary content it will not really matter because I am sure people will be dead quite quickly before they can even build up the stacks with 3 second wear off timer for each one.

Just my two cents.