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View Full Version : Downtime Notice: 7:00 AM - 3:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) Thursday, October 22nd



Frelorn
10-20-2015, 04:22 PM
UPDATE: Khyber and all of the other game worlds have reopened!

The DDO Game Servers and myaccount.turbine.com will be brought down on Thursday, October 22nd from 7:00 AM - 3:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) to release Update 28 Patch 1 and the new DDO Store. Thanks for your patience, and we'll see you back in the game soon!

Drwaz99
10-20-2015, 05:10 PM
2 official days of Lama. Lol.

Also, Not showing up in the Dev tracker.

Steve_Howe
10-20-2015, 05:22 PM
2 official days of Lama. Lol.

Also, Not showing up in the Dev tracker.

Community Managers have the option of whether their posts show up in the Dev Tracker or not.

My guess is Frelorn forgot to turn it on for this post.

JOTMON
10-20-2015, 05:25 PM
Community Managers have the option of whether their posts show up in the Dev Tracker or not.

My guess is Frelorn forgot to turn it on for this post.

or he didn't want anyone to notice..

Morroiel
10-20-2015, 05:26 PM
The DDO Game Servers and myaccount.turbine.com will be brought down on Thursday, October 22nd from 7:00 AM - 3:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) to release Update 28 Patch 1 and the new DDO Store. Thanks for your patience, and we'll see you back in the game soon!

You've GOT TO BE KIDDING ME?!?

2 days for balance changes to be tested on lamannia?

Can you guys please start listening to players? A balance patch with this many ramifications shouldn't be rushed out the door. I beg you to listen to your playerbase for once.

mikarddo
10-20-2015, 05:28 PM
The DDO Game Servers and myaccount.turbine.com will be brought down on Thursday, October 22nd from 7:00 AM - 3:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) to release Update 28 Patch 1 and the new DDO Store. Thanks for your patience, and we'll see you back in the game soon!

Fun in an obscure sort of way.

Duhboy
10-20-2015, 06:38 PM
You've GOT TO BE KIDDING ME?!?

2 days for balance changes to be tested on lamannia?

Can you guys please start listening to players? A balance patch with this many ramifications shouldn't be rushed out the door. I beg you to listen to your playerbase for once.

They won't listen to the playerbase because they are more interested in nerfing everything. And with this patch starts the death of DDO it was fun while it lasted.

Erik_Loki
10-20-2015, 06:49 PM
The DDO Game Servers and myaccount.turbine.com will be brought down on Thursday, October 22nd from 7:00 AM - 3:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) to release Update 28 Patch 1 and the new DDO Store. Thanks for your patience, and we'll see you back in the game soon!

I didn t know when the game would die, now i know... 22.10.2015 (Martin Mc Fly will try to stop them coming back in the future)

Saekee
10-20-2015, 08:00 PM
release notes?

Ykt
10-20-2015, 08:02 PM
Are they including Intelligence/Charisma in the DC calculation for Paralyzing arrow? Or they staying on Wisdom only?

Clemeit
10-20-2015, 08:07 PM
Huge new feat options for fighters.

I'd really like to see a Lesser Heart in my inventory when I log back in... I don't think we should all have to buy them when so much is being changed.

Qhualor
10-20-2015, 08:11 PM
They won't listen to the playerbase because they are more interested in nerfing everything. And with this patch starts the death of DDO it was fun while it lasted.

heh, ive been hearing this for 6 years.

Powerhungry
10-20-2015, 08:42 PM
heh, ive been hearing this for 6 years.
Me too.
Sadly, I think this one may be right

oweieie
10-20-2015, 11:29 PM
2 days for balance changes to be tested on lamannia?

You're implying it's rocket science, it's not. The balance changes they're making are completely trivial to gauge if you've managed to pass high school math and have even a basic understanding of how the game operates. Lamania was used to catch coding bugs, not to check for balance. Balance could be checked with a calculator and 5 minutes by a competent developer. Listening to you people whine and ***** and you don't have even the foggiest idea what you're talking about is as funny as it is sad.

GroundhogDay
10-21-2015, 12:18 AM
The DDO Game Servers and myaccount.turbine.com will be brought down on Thursday, October 22nd from 7:00 AM - 3:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) to release Update 28 Patch 1 and the new DDO Store. Thanks for your patience, and we'll see you back in the game soon!

Brought to you by the same people who gave us Infinite Crisis.

Memnir
10-21-2015, 12:27 AM
http://i.imgur.com/wpgLr71.gif

Darkmits
10-21-2015, 12:40 AM
release notes?They are uploaded 1-2 hours after patch hits live. Always has been this way. Personally I'd prefer if we were informed about them during downtime.

hunzi2010
10-21-2015, 01:01 AM
You're implying it's rocket science, it's not. The balance changes they're making are completely trivial to gauge if you've managed to pass high school math and have even a basic understanding of how the game operates. Lamania was used to catch coding bugs, not to check for balance. Balance could be checked with a calculator and 5 minutes by a competent developer. Listening to you people whine and ***** and you don't have even the foggiest idea what you're talking about is as funny as it is sad.

Apologies but I cant hold back here. its the same math used when they nerfed blitrz, people like yourself putting up equations saying its not a nerf blah blah blah. and what happened to blitz? NERFED!!!!!!!!!
Then the next one to drop what the holy sword, look at the math... NERFED!!!!!!
Before that was to Quivering Palm, and monks are broken since the PRR/MRR introduction.
and now you put up new math equations and people are saying its not too bad and I know after the update it will be NERFED!!!!

Now I know I am being negative here, and apologies, as yes I am angry. but I would like to say 2 things that are lacking here which needs to be addressed.
Number 1, concentrate on spending time boosting the classes that that are behind, this is achieving balance rather than nerf everything so that everything is not working or worth investing in.
Number 2, If you want to stop the splash classes from being OP, then concentrate on the pure classes. This means that a pure rogue should have the best achievable evasion and saves. because the player has specialized in the class. ALL 20 LEVELS. So a splash class can not achieve this as they didn't specialize in the class.

Anyways, will see after the patch update to see what is working and not working.
Thanks guys see you ingame.

Hunzi

brzytki
10-21-2015, 02:59 AM
and what happened to blitz? NERFED!!!!!!!!!

I laugh everytime I read "they NERFED blitz!!!!oneone!!". I mean it's an epic MOMENT that you can now keep up through an entire quest doing absolutely nothing but hitting the mobs. Almost every other epic moment has 30 sec duration, 5 minutes cooldown with measures preventing another activation within that time or number of uses per rest. You cry that you do 5-10% damage less (if even) but completely overlook the fact that it's the single epic moment you can easily maintain throught the whole quest. What's more, there was an outcry of people before saying that they can't Blitz thought the whole quest and what did the Devs do? They upped the initial counter when activating.

Just compare the version of Blitz right after MotU was released and todays' one. It's so laughable.

Requiro
10-21-2015, 03:00 AM
Thank you for fast update :)

Nestroy
10-21-2015, 03:59 AM
OK, here we go with the nerf pass. I think I will stock myself with enough popcorn. Will get funny the next days when those not checking in on the forums regularly and not thoroughly testing Lam before updates will find out their shiny builds and hard earned WLs will stop to shine.

We people critical to the nerf pass were vocal the last days. All is said now. Now let the protest games begin.

Kuttamia
10-21-2015, 05:28 AM
They won't listen to the playerbase because they are more interested in nerfing everything. And with this patch starts the death of DDO it was fun while it lasted.

Ddo is not going anywhere mate, that "death" prediction have been going on for years and there are no evidence to suggest any going concern problem with this game.

Kylstrem
10-21-2015, 05:37 AM
"We will Balance this game with EXTREME PREJUDICE!!!!" :)

Gothdom
10-21-2015, 07:47 AM
I don't think this patch will be good. I think it should've been postponed. I don't understand how they still go through with it after the backlash it got from everyone. Although, maybe the forums ended up being as vocal as usual... Maybe someone from Turbine can express why 18.1 is still green lighted?

Loromir
10-21-2015, 09:03 AM
I don't think this patch will be good. I think it should've been postponed. I don't understand how they still go through with it after the backlash it got from everyone. Although, maybe the forums ended up being as vocal as usual... Maybe someone from Turbine can express why 18.1 is still green lighted?


Oh Contrare!!!! I think this patch is great. They knew there would be backlash....I knew there would be backlash. Fact is, this is necessary to extend the longevity of DDO. People want "God Mode" but then stop playing when they achieve "God Mode" because there is no more challenge.

Regardless of how many people say "I'm Done", "I'm quitting", "I'ma find me another game"...etc...they all realize there is absolutely nothing out there remotely similar to DDO...so...most will be back....trying to get back to "God Mode". 6-weeks from now, the hysteria will die down and DDO will be healthier for it.

Good work Devs...we'll see ya in game.

xberto
10-21-2015, 09:09 AM
They are uploaded 1-2 hours after patch hits live. Always has been this way. Personally I'd prefer if we were informed about them during downtime.
I agree that it would be nice to have the notes posted during downtime

Gralhota
10-21-2015, 09:14 AM
I laugh everytime I read "they NERFED blitz!!!!oneone!!". I mean it's an epic MOMENT that you can now keep up through an entire quest doing absolutely nothing but hitting the mobs. Almost every other epic moment has 30 sec duration, 5 minutes cooldown with measures preventing another activation within that time or number of uses per rest. You cry that you do 5-10% damage less (if even) but completely overlook the fact that it's the single epic moment you can easily maintain throught the whole quest. What's more, there was an outcry of people before saying that they can't Blitz thought the whole quest and what did the Devs do? They upped the initial counter when activating.

Just compare the version of Blitz right after MotU was released and todays' one. It's so laughable.



Fatality

no....

Wait...





BRUTALITY !!!!!

drathdragon
10-21-2015, 09:14 AM
...mabar is coming

NarutoArgo
10-21-2015, 09:21 AM
Oh Contrare!!!! I think this patch is great. They knew there would be backlash....I knew there would be backlash. Fact is, this is necessary to extend the longevity of DDO. People want "God Mode" but then stop playing when they achieve "God Mode" because there is no more challenge.

Regardless of how many people say "I'm Done", "I'm quitting", "I'ma find me another game"...etc...they all realize there is absolutely nothing out there remotely similar to DDO...so...most will be back....trying to get back to "God Mode". 6-weeks from now, the hysteria will die down and DDO will be healthier for it.

Good work Devs...we'll see ya in game.

100% agreed. Looking forward to patch in game. It's about time

Shoemaker
10-21-2015, 09:42 AM
Huge new feat options for fighters.

I'd really like to see a Lesser Heart in my inventory when I log back in... I don't think we should all have to buy them when so much is being changed.

Severlin has indicated that there will be a coupon to be able to get 2 +5 lesser hearts for free from the (new) store. The reason they don't put things directly in our inventory anymore, as I recall, is that there were too many people that would log in after a long hiatus and find their packs over-flowing and be unable to access the newest things.


Brought to you by the same people who gave us Infinite Crisis.

Entirely different team of developers.


They are uploaded 1-2 hours after patch hits live. Always has been this way. Personally I'd prefer if we were informed about them during downtime.

I'm trying to get a copy of them before the patch so that I can go over them on https://twitch.tv/ddostream during the downtime. My fingers are crossed that I can get something ahead of time for that purpose. :)


...mabar is coming
More specifically... [[The Night Revels (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Night_Revels)]]... :cool:

Strider1963
10-21-2015, 09:47 AM
Ddo is not going anywhere mate, that "death" prediction have been going on for years and there are no evidence to suggest any going concern problem with this game.

Just remember, if nerfs such as this make people unhappy (and I know quite a few that are), sooner or later the proverbial "Straw that broke the camels back" will be reached, and the servers will be even more sparsely populated than they are now, and any game will lot survive long with less and less paying players....

hunzi2010
10-21-2015, 09:49 AM
I laugh everytime I read "they NERFED blitz!!!!oneone!!". I mean it's an epic MOMENT that you can now keep up through an entire quest doing absolutely nothing but hitting the mobs. Almost every other epic moment has 30 sec duration, 5 minutes cooldown with measures preventing another activation within that time or number of uses per rest. You cry that you do 5-10% damage less (if even) but completely overlook the fact that it's the single epic moment you can easily maintain throught the whole quest. What's more, there was an outcry of people before saying that they can't Blitz thought the whole quest and what did the Devs do? They upped the initial counter when activating.

Just compare the version of Blitz right after MotU was released and todays' one. It's so laughable.

Well I had no problems with my blitz staying alive before the NERF. I invested in double strike and speed with off hand attacks. built up stacks no problem.
so what did they do, remember the thread, increase everyone's base damage power... again because people were crying "I cant kill enough mobs cos your blitzing"
I am really getting tired of coming here and reading all these people getting upset and requesting nerfs. No wonder the devs get irritated all the time.
leave the classes as they are and boost the classes that are way behind. like monks and clerics.

Seikojin
10-21-2015, 10:03 AM
Welcome Frelorn!

Where is Cordovan? :(

Unless we can have more than one community manager.

I now understand Sevs posts on adjusting weapon crit ranges for nameds. But I am curious if it affects old, or just new.

I think it is a bad compromise to give holy sword back to ranged, but then again, the numbers were pretty poor for ranged combat.

Hopefully things roll out without crashes.

Shoemaker
10-21-2015, 10:26 AM
Welcome Frelorn!

Where is Cordovan? :(

Unless we can have more than one community manager.

I now understand Sevs posts on adjusting weapon crit ranges for nameds. But I am curious if it affects old, or just new.

I think it is a bad compromise to give holy sword back to ranged, but then again, the numbers were pretty poor for ranged combat.

Hopefully things roll out without crashes.

I believe that Cordovan is out of the office on business this week and Frelorn is filling in.

Zzevel
10-21-2015, 10:30 AM
They won't listen to the playerbase because they are more interested in nerfing everything. And with this patch starts the death of DDO it was fun while it lasted.

It isn't the death, but it is subscribers lost.. and at this point we are getting pretty slim on those around here... A game fix is supposed to make like better, yes you have the people it does not affect and the nodders who like to see the more powerful nerfed, but in the end you have a lot of players and invested time (and money) who just got the Turbine 'Too Bad' we made the change and already got your money so you can quit now if you want.

No I am not leaving but i am sad that I do know people who are angry and plan to leave (ok, i'm a little happy to see at least 1 person go). I do have around 5 or 6 toons pretty severely affected (I like flavor of the month toons) where 2 +5 Heart's is simply not enough to fix them. I know I am done spending money in the store (and I do spend quite a bit) because I don't feel I should pay to make changes to something I spent so much time on the first time around that is now broken because someone else changed their mind.

There is a middle ground to appease the player-base and Fred for 5 days isn't it. Throw us a carrot, an LR+5 won't fix anything a +3 wouldn't fix (you splash either 2 or 6), what about Fred for 30 days and a coupon for 4 +3 LR's? It doesn't solve all my problems and it still takes my time to make the changes, but it shows that you care about the larger accounts with 20+ playing toons as well as that person who has 1 toon. They can use 1 heart on a 2 level splash or 2 for a 6 level splash. Hey they can use all 4 to remove a 12 level splash if need be, it isn't a +20 for everyone but hey the 95% of build really shouldn't need a +20 (they just want them).

Dj_Fisty
10-21-2015, 11:03 AM
any reason behind lossing the weapon melee power on TWF,
feels like another nerf to my monk to me.

Bluenoser
10-21-2015, 12:54 PM
Seems like we're operating in the dark here, regarding what this patch is actually about. Do we know for sure that it is the dreaded nerf-wave? That's a pretty big change to squeeze into a patch rather than a full update, especially so quickly. I'll repeat my earlier plea (hopefully not completely in vain) to not release something so big until they get the fine-tuning right--like, for example, not destroying already low-powered quarterstaffs, or undoing the light melee weapon balance they created with swashbuckling. (And it's xbows that need holy sword-nerfing, not TWFs and shields!)

garynash7070
10-21-2015, 12:57 PM
Hmmmm.... Name sounds familiar.

Let then know they haven't posted the release notes. I'll be online tonight for a time. Working a lot. See ya later.

barecm
10-21-2015, 01:12 PM
Hi

Kompera_Oberon
10-21-2015, 01:58 PM
You've GOT TO BE KIDDING ME?!?

2 days for balance changes to be tested on lamannia?(My underline for emphasis)

You haven't gotten the memo yet. Lamannia isn't a test server, it's a preview server. What you see is what you get, no testing is needed.



Huge new feat options for fighters.

They aren't really options. They are a Feat tax on the sole class which has only Feats as a class ability.

This is going to be a huge train wreck. I wonder why this "balance pass" had to be implemented with such reckless haste when there are still a large number of classes who haven't received their balance pass yet, and the tentative schedule for those extends two+ years into the future?

Basura_Grande
10-21-2015, 02:15 PM
any reason behind lossing the weapon melee power on TWF,
feels like another nerf to my monk to me.

Non-Monk TWFing is overperforming. The Devs know unarmed is in the bad state and will address in a futre update.

Gothdom
10-21-2015, 03:16 PM
Oh Contrare!!!! I think this patch is great. They knew there would be backlash....I knew there would be backlash. Fact is, this is necessary to extend the longevity of DDO. People want "God Mode" but then stop playing when they achieve "God Mode" because there is no more challenge.

Regardless of how many people say "I'm Done", "I'm quitting", "I'ma find me another game"...etc...they all realize there is absolutely nothing out there remotely similar to DDO...so...most will be back....trying to get back to "God Mode". 6-weeks from now, the hysteria will die down and DDO will be healthier for it.

Good work Devs...we'll see ya in game.

I would agree with you if it didn't affect new players in a way that they will find lots of "favorite" builds from pnp unfun and unfriendly. This just goes back to why 1.00 didn't work as much as they thought. If you have a couple of past lives, or gear to share in shared bank, yeah, sure, it's ok, even if I despise what they're doing to TWF, but for a new player with no gear coming in.. Say they choose assassin... or paladin... the game will suck for them, they won't get near 20 and quit before they can even understand what this game has to offer. I'm sorry, but on the biggest picture, this patch is not good. It's good for any completionist. You find the game too easy? Wait for reaper mode.

This patch was made for an elite. If you find this game too easy, I dare you to make a Wisdom based pure rogue build naked run. No weapons allowed, only one piece of armor and a trinket. It's too easy, you should be able to do that no?

No? ahh, so the game isn't too easy.

EDIT: I'm not against the Balance, but this patch thinks nerfs = balance. I'm all for a postpone. Better to hold it off than getting some odd weirdo patch out that is so controversial.

Kompera_Oberon
10-21-2015, 04:01 PM
The Devs know unarmed is in the bad state and will address in a futre update.

The problem with that statement is that there was a already huge pile of things in the category of "in a bad state" and yet this "balance pass" still managed to be placed at the front of the line while all those things are still ignored.

The history of the devs going "oooh, shiny!" and rushing off after some new project while leaving ignored a huge pile of stuff that has needed fixing for literally years is well documented. Unless a schedule is actually posted don't expect your unarmed fix, or any other fix for that matter, to occur in the short term if at all.

Duhboy
10-21-2015, 04:40 PM
heh, ive been hearing this for 6 years.

So have I.... in other games that continually pulled this kind of sh*t. And they all fell through. Some people have already quit and went to other games and I don't blame them.

blerkington
10-21-2015, 04:56 PM
heh, ive been hearing this for 6 years.

Hi,

The fact that it hasn't come true yet doesn't mean it never will. Let's not get too complacent here.

Then there's the issue of declining player numbers. Bleeding to death from a large number of small cuts is not really any better than a single massive heart attack.

Thanks.

Qhualor
10-21-2015, 05:19 PM
Hi,

The fact that it hasn't come true yet doesn't mean it never will. Let's not get too complacent here.

Then there's the issue of declining player numbers. Bleeding to death from a large number of small cuts is not really any better than a single massive heart attack.

Thanks.

yep one day they will be right. I think you are reading more into my post though. it was just a comment i can say after playing for 6 years hearing the same thing every single update.

I don't deny declining numbers, but there is a lot more to it than one or two things or whats happening in the next patch. I do think some people are being a little over the top about the changes. all ive seen in these threads is "MY build will be broken" when it affects ALL melee and warlock builds. my characters will be just as "gimped" as the guy next to me. ill sound like a broken record, but I haven't seen any unplayable classes in 6 years despite the hundreds of changes. logging into Lamania and seeing not even 100 players logged in at any given time and some of them beating the snot out of a kobold for "testing" and using that as a true basis of information tells me that maybe people are just afraid of change without truly checking things out. keep in mind though that I have said my opinion on these changes and I don't like all of them, but I do like the intent behind it. I even suggested to Sev that I would PM him videos if character copy would work. one thing that Sev is right about is that some of the same people that suggested balance changes, even the most ridiculous of suggestions, have done a 180 degree turn.

hunzi2010
10-21-2015, 05:39 PM
any reason behind lossing the weapon melee power on TWF,
feels like another nerf to my monk to me.

Yeppers, Agreed, my monk not only has no QP working, now has broken hand wraps and no PRR or MRR and now the unarmed main feats is also nerfed...
Looks like my monk will be put back into the closet yet again... to collect more dust.


Non-Monk TWFing is overperforming. The Devs know unarmed is in the bad state and will address in a futre update.

really???????? again confirming that my monk is screwed....

Here is an idea, if TWF is such a problem, why don't the devs simply fix this by making it class restriction, TWF and ITWF have min levels to use. we all agree on that.
well lets make it that monks and class x and class y are only allowed to use this feat. this way you wont have the powercreap because these uber builds wont be able to have access to even get the feat using splash classes.
Can you guys read in between the lines here what I am saying???????
I will give you a hint. A pally toon is a pally. a fighter is a fighter. a monk is a monk, a ranger is a ranger.
and for the people still not understanding, a pally isn't a ranger, a fighter isn't a monk, a druid isn't a rogue a barbarian isn't a caster.........

EllisDee37
10-21-2015, 06:13 PM
all ive seen in these threads is "MY build will be broken" when it affects ALL melee and warlock builds. my characters will be just as "gimped" as the guy next to me.You may have misunderstood those threads. Under the original proposal, not all builds would have been nerfed equally. Some would have been nerfed quite a bit more than others.

After the feedback in those threads, adjustments have been made so that now most builds will be nerfed fairly equally. (The notable exceptions appear to be non-rapier swashbucklers and knife assassins, who will be getting hit harder. Sev specifically said they plan to do something to correct that, but no details have been forthcoming and the patch goes live in ~12 hours, so...)

jalont
10-21-2015, 06:17 PM
I would agree with you if it didn't affect new players in a way that they will find lots of "favorite" builds from pnp unfun and unfriendly. This just goes back to why 1.00 didn't work as much as they thought. If you have a couple of past lives, or gear to share in shared bank, yeah, sure, it's ok, even if I despise what they're doing to TWF, but for a new player with no gear coming in.. Say they choose assassin... or paladin... the game will suck for them, they won't get near 20 and quit before they can even understand what this game has to offer. I'm sorry, but on the biggest picture, this patch is not good. It's good for any completionist. You find the game too easy? Wait for reaper mode.

This patch was made for an elite. If you find this game too easy, I dare you to make a Wisdom based pure rogue build naked run. No weapons allowed, only one piece of armor and a trinket. It's too easy, you should be able to do that no?

No? ahh, so the game isn't too easy.

EDIT: I'm not against the Balance, but this patch thinks nerfs = balance. I'm all for a postpone. Better to hold it off than getting some odd weirdo patch out that is so controversial.

What is different now? Even with the nerfs, new players will still be much, much, much more powerful that players who started less than two years ago. Meanwhile, there are very few new heroic quests. What is different NOW than was different for the other 8 years of the game's life before all these buffs took place? Looking at all the data we have, the buffs are what lead to a decrease in population, not the state of difficulty prebuffs. In fact, the game had a much, much higher population when it was more challenging.

Qhualor
10-21-2015, 06:27 PM
You may have misunderstood those threads. Under the original proposal, not all builds would have been nerfed equally. Some would have been nerfed quite a bit more than others.

After the feedback in those threads, adjustments have been made so that now most builds will be nerfed fairly equally. (The notable exceptions appear to be non-rapier swashbucklers and knife assassins, who will be getting hit harder. Sev specifically said they plan to do something to correct that, but no details have been forthcoming and the patch goes live in ~12 hours, so...)

you are the second person to say that I said equally or the same. I am not saying that at all. these changes affect every melee build in different ways.

blerkington
10-21-2015, 06:34 PM
yep one day they will be right. I think you are reading more into my post though. it was just a comment i can say after playing for 6 years hearing the same thing every single update.

...

one thing that Sev is right about is that some of the same people that suggested balance changes, even the most ridiculous of suggestions, have done a 180 degree turn.

Hi,

Fair enough to the first part of your post.

I think the second part of your post I've quoted contains one of those false comparisons which are so popular and so misused on the forums. That's because the devil is very much in the detail.

People asking for nerfs all have different ideas of what they should be, and why they should be implemented. Saying that people have been asking for nerfs and then mocking them for not being satisfied with just any nerf makes no sense at all.

My main gripes with this balance pass aren't with the intention, but with the method. I think communication has been done poorly, testing (theirs and ours) is insufficient, they've missed nerfs which are badly needed and gone too far with others. I don't think they are giving adequate consideration to alternative solutions and have misrepresented the extent to which some nerfs will affect us.

So although I don't think your remarks were specifically directed at me, I'm an example of someone who thinks some nerfs were needed, but that the way it's being done now is a complete shambles. Judging by what I see on the forums, in party chat, and in channel, I'm far from alone in this belief.

Nerfing may sometimes be a necessity, but a lot of the pain could have been avoided if the developers had listened to people who warned them early on that they were adding too much power, and that there would be serious balance consequences later on. Those consequences would require lots of nerfing or lots more buffing and a content rebalance. It didn't take a genius to see that, yet somehow months were wasted figuring this out.

The other key point about nerfs is if you're going to do them, do them quickly and do them right. Don't let people become accustomed to the new build, because the longer you leave it, the more attached they become and the more effort they've spent gearing it up. Again, not rocket science, but something which the developers either don't understand or feel safe to ignore. The way they've handled this has pretty much guaranteed maximum dissatisfaction.

Thanks.

EllisDee37
10-21-2015, 06:36 PM
you are the second person to say that I said equally or the same. I am not saying that at all. these changes affect every melee build in different ways.You did say it. I quoted it. Here it is again:


my characters will be just as "gimped" as the guy next to me.This statement is only true if the nerfs are equal or the same. (By and large they are now, thanks to player feedback, with a few notable exceptions. I also forgot Vanguards, who are getting extra nerfed by design.)

Qhualor
10-21-2015, 07:03 PM
You did say it. I quoted it. Here it is again:

This statement is only true if the nerfs are equal or the same. (By and large they are now, thanks to player feedback, with a few notable exceptions. I also forgot Vanguards, who are getting extra nerfed by design.)

just as gimped as the next guy does not mean equally gimped. im not going to play forum word games.

EllisDee37
10-21-2015, 07:04 PM
just as gimped as the next guy does not mean equally gimped. im not going to play forum word games.Fair enough on not playing word games, but in English that's exactly what that phrase means. It's equivalent to "no more no less."

Put it this way: If the guy next to you got a much bigger nerf than you, are you just as "gimped" as him? Clearly not. He was gimped more.

Qhualor
10-21-2015, 07:53 PM
Hi,

Fair enough to the first part of your post.

I think the second part of your post I've quoted contains one of those false comparisons which are so popular and so misused on the forums. That's because the devil is very much in the detail.

People asking for nerfs all have different ideas of what they should be, and why they should be implemented. Saying that people have been asking for nerfs and then mocking them for not being satisfied with just any nerf makes no sense at all.

My main gripes with this balance pass aren't with the intention, but with the method. I think communication has been done poorly, testing (theirs and ours) is insufficient, they've missed nerfs which are badly needed and gone too far with others. I don't think they are giving adequate consideration to alternative solutions and have misrepresented the extent to which some nerfs will affect us.

So although I don't think your remarks were specifically directed at me, I'm an example of someone who thinks some nerfs were needed, but that the way it's being done now is a complete shambles. Judging by what I see on the forums, in party chat, and in channel, I'm far from alone in this belief.

Nerfing may sometimes be a necessity, but a lot of the pain could have been avoided if the developers had listened to people who warned them early on that they were adding too much power, and that there would be serious balance consequences later on. Those consequences would require lots of nerfing or lots more buffing and a content rebalance. It didn't take a genius to see that, yet somehow months were wasted figuring this out.

The other key point about nerfs is if you're going to do them, do them quickly and do them right. Don't let people become accustomed to the new build, because the longer you leave it, the more attached they become and the more effort they've spent gearing it up. Again, not rocket science, but something which the developers either don't understand or feel safe to ignore. The way they've handled this has pretty much guaranteed maximum dissatisfaction.

Thanks.

I haven't mocked anybody. I just pointed out that the balance pass is here and some of those players who kept talking about how easy the game is for months suggesting a variety of changes are now saying they will quit, cancel VIP, not play, feel forced to buy hearts of wood, feel forced into a different build, demand their time and money spent to be given back. I know not everybody is going to agree with balance changes and I even pointed out that I don't agree with all of it, but character power has been growing too long and too fast. it needed to slow down for the better of the game. its going to take some getting used to not seeing such high dps numbers, but its going to affect all melee builds across the board in a variety of ways.

I cant really speak on dev testing because they wont talk about specifics, but I reading these threads on how much dps and how fast players dps on a kobold is only a small portion of a characters power. environment testing in a variety of group settings is where you get more accurate numbers. math formulas is a good start, but it doesn't tell you the variables in an environment making it incomplete data.

I think communication has been great. as delicate as this pass is, ive seen Sev post a lot lately. he encourages us to log onto Lama and test things and tries to explain the changes.

yep, a common thing to happen in DDO. we tell the devs too much power and it takes a long time before they finally address it. its good though that they do address it eventually rather than never, right? now if they could react to the power creep and bugs and whatnot faster than they do we would have a lot less griping I think.

blerkington
10-21-2015, 08:19 PM
I haven't mocked anybody. I just pointed out that the balance pass is here and some of those players who kept talking about how easy the game is for months suggesting a variety of changes are now saying they will quit, cancel VIP, not play, feel forced to buy hearts of wood, feel forced into a different build, demand their time and money spent to be given back. I know not everybody is going to agree with balance changes and I even pointed out that I don't agree with all of it, but character power has been growing too long and too fast. it needed to slow down for the better of the game. its going to take some getting used to not seeing such high dps numbers, but its going to affect all melee builds across the board in a variety of ways.

I cant really speak on dev testing because they wont talk about specifics, but I reading these threads on how much dps and how fast players dps on a kobold is only a small portion of a characters power. environment testing in a variety of group settings is where you get more accurate numbers. math formulas is a good start, but it doesn't tell you the variables in an environment making it incomplete data.

I think communication has been great. as delicate as this pass is, ive seen Sev post a lot lately. he encourages us to log onto Lama and test things and tries to explain the changes.

yep, a common thing to happen in DDO. we tell the devs too much power and it takes a long time before they finally address it. its good though that they do address it eventually rather than never, right? now if they could react to the power creep and bugs and whatnot faster than they do we would have a lot less griping I think.

Hi,

The false comparison I mentioned in my last post is one thing used to devalue the opinions of people who are critical of how this is proceeding. It's an excuse being used by certain staff at Turbine and certain posters on the forums to rob these types of objection of their validity. Lump everyone who disagrees together, no matter what their reasons, call them bad and ignore what they have to say.

It's just another version of 'they'll never be happy with what we do, so we may as well do whatever we want'. Freeing yourself from the burden of criticism like that must feel wonderful, but it is also very dishonest.

Talking about 'some of those players' means nothing outside of particular situations. If you are able to identify and count these people, it makes sense to their situations alone. Maybe you should address that criticism to those people in particular, rather than claiming, quite baselessly, it's somehow representative of a significant part the forum community.

I could not disagree more with your claim that communication has been great. My standards for good communication in an exercise like this include a methodical collection of, rationalisation of and response to all unique issues raised through feedback. The sheer chaos of the nerfs thread is an excellent example of how not to do work like this. The responses have been patchy, the extent of some changes have been deliberately misrepresented, and important issues remain unaddressed.

As for Severlin encouraging us to test things, that is laughable. The two opportunities to test the changes were short and at times which are inconvenient. Lammania is a preview server, not a test server, and the general lack of change between what we usually see there and what we get on the live server is all the proof you need. You are either kidding yourself about the extent to which player testing is valued or your standards are so low that you are mistaking tokenism for serious interest.

Thanks.

Kompera_Oberon
10-21-2015, 09:12 PM
I could not disagree more with your claim that communication has been great. My standards for good communication in an exercise like this include a methodical collection of, rationalisation of and response to all unique issues raised through feedback. The sheer chaos of the nerfs thread is an excellent example of how not to do work like this. The responses have been patchy, the extent of some changes have been deliberately misrepresented, and important issues remain unaddressed.

As for Severlin encouraging us to test things, that is laughable. The two opportunities to test the changes were short and at times which are inconvenient. Lammania is a preview server, not a test server, and the general lack of change between what we usually see there and what we get on the live server is all the proof you need. You are either kidding yourself about the extent to which player testing is valued or your standards are so low that you are mistaking tokenism for serious interest.

Thanks.

Spot on.

+1

/signed

etc.

phalaeo
10-21-2015, 11:07 PM
I believe that Cordovan is out of the office on business this week and Frelorn is filling in.

Can you blame him? If I had his job, I'd want this week off as far away from moderating posts as possible.

Oxarhamar
10-22-2015, 01:17 AM
The DDO Game Servers and myaccount.turbine.com will be brought down on Thursday, October 22nd from 7:00 AM - 3:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) to release Update 28 Patch 1 and the new DDO Store. Thanks for your patience, and we'll see you back in the game soon!

New build prepped & ready for the changes on live.

rockingsuphastar
10-22-2015, 04:18 AM
OK, here we go with the nerf pass. I think I will stock myself with enough popcorn. Will get funny the next days when those not checking in on the forums regularly and not thoroughly testing Lam before updates will find out their shiny builds and hard earned WLs will stop to shine.

We people critical to the nerf pass were vocal the last days. All is said now. Now let the protest games begin.

Will do the same hehe :)

cdbd3rd
10-22-2015, 05:25 AM
Welcome Frelorn!

....


... Frelorn is filling in.


Is that Hobbit feet I smell? :eek:

:p

Grinthane
10-22-2015, 07:01 AM
Seems like we're operating in the dark here, regarding what this patch is actually about. Do we know for sure that it is the dreaded nerf-wave? That's a pretty big change to squeeze into a patch rather than a full update, especially so quickly. I'll repeat my earlier plea (hopefully not completely in vain) to not release something so big until they get the fine-tuning right--like, for example, not destroying already low-powered quarterstaffs, or undoing the light melee weapon balance they created with swashbuckling. (And it's xbows that need holy sword-nerfing, not TWFs and shields!)



Thank you, I was starting to feel like I was the only one not knowing what was going on. While I admit some characters are op I usually use them for gear farming. Even those toons have a hard time on elite though, which is fine, keeps me humble. Quite often I am unclear as to what is being done until I do check the forums then I get the light bulb.
As far as nerfing, meh, the game is still fun so I don't really mind as I do tend to get bored with my op toons. Still have 15 others to fall back on with my main server, I am working on it on my other servers tee hee.
I am just very happy ddo gives me something to do so I do not become a typical stay at home mom eating bon bons and watching talk shows (love you neighbor but I really don't care she does not know who the father is)

Grinthane
10-22-2015, 07:05 AM
Hi

hello to you also. Are you just checking to see if anyone responds. Am I just checking to see if you respond to my response, possibilities are endless and the mind boggles.

rockingsuphastar
10-22-2015, 07:21 AM
hello to you also. Are you just checking to see if anyone responds. Am I just checking to see if you respond to my response, possibilities are endless and the mind boggles.

how much time left for servers to be up ? :) is it 8.20am or 12.25pm?

Grinthane
10-22-2015, 07:27 AM
I haven't mocked anybody. I just pointed out that the balance pass is here and some of those players who kept talking about how easy the game is for months suggesting a variety of changes are now saying they will quit, cancel VIP, not play, feel forced to buy hearts of wood, feel forced into a different build, demand their time and money spent to be given back. I know not everybody is going to agree with balance changes and I even pointed out that I don't agree with all of it, but character power has been growing too long and too fast. it needed to slow down for the better of the game. its going to take some getting used to not seeing such high dps numbers, but its going to affect all melee builds across the board in a variety of ways.

I cant really speak on dev testing because they wont talk about specifics, but I reading these threads on how much dps and how fast players dps on a kobold is only a small portion of a characters power. environment testing in a variety of group settings is where you get more accurate numbers. math formulas is a good start, but it doesn't tell you the variables in an environment making it incomplete data.

I think communication has been great. as delicate as this pass is, ive seen Sev post a lot lately. he encourages us to log onto Lama and test things and tries to explain the changes.

yep, a common thing to happen in DDO. we tell the devs too much power and it takes a long time before they finally address it. its good though that they do address it eventually rather than never, right? now if they could react to the power creep and bugs and whatnot faster than they do we would have a lot less griping I think.

You seem to be getting seen so I am gonna use you. Thanks for that. I honestly am a glass half full kind of person, and i adjust to changes good or bad. There are some things I would do differently, but meh, ultimately I am very happy with ddo overall. I know I may be alone on this but I don't care, instead of a heart of wood or a coupon for free ice cream, I would really like to have a psuedo dragon, so if they could be available in the store that would be wonderful, ooooo and the wizard hat like elminster. I did not have the money at the time to get the uber pre order, so while I got some of the shinies for a pre order I did not get the shiniest of the shines.
Thank you

Grinthane
10-22-2015, 07:37 AM
how much time left for servers to be up ? :) is it 8.20am or 12.25pm?

good question, I know one thing I can do during downtime, I can rearrange furniture so my cat gets a new adventure as well. I will increase the difficulty level to jump from the dresser to the bookshelf.

BankCoffer
10-22-2015, 07:42 AM
good question, I know one thing I can do during downtime, I can rearrange furniture so my cat gets a new adventure as well. I will increase the difficulty level to jump from the dresser to the bookshelf.

No, no, no. What you need to do is perform a balance pass on the cat by declawing it and docking its tail. That will be better for the cat and more fun for all.

Mojo_d
10-22-2015, 07:48 AM
good question, I know one thing I can do during downtime, I can rearrange furniture so my cat gets a new adventure as well. I will increase the difficulty level to jump from the dresser to the bookshelf.

you're gonna have to do a whole lot more to occupy yourself for these 8 torturing downtime hours :P

Also,about the update,when I first saw the balanced changes thread,I got panicked and angry,nerfing all those things.Then I calmed down and thought that for every problem there's a solution,and like every update,there will be ppl who will crunch the numbers,and make awesome builds out of these changes for the rest of the mortals in this game,like me.And if people start complaining about their toons being nerfed much,well they can always tr into a broken build like tree or wolf,that are unaffected by the changes as it seems.And this time it will not be on us using these builds,but on devs concentrating in the wrong nerfs :P

Grinthane
10-22-2015, 08:19 AM
No, no, no. What you need to do is perform a balance pass on the cat by declawing it and docking its tail. That will be better for the cat and more fun for all.

would make bath time easier. I do have other stuff to do around house and son's birthday to get ready for. Epic difficulty, he is a preteen.

kned225
10-22-2015, 08:24 AM
you're gonna have to do a whole lot more to occupy yourself for these 8 torturing downtime hours


I don't have this problem because I go to work

Draeqo
10-22-2015, 08:33 AM
You've GOT TO BE KIDDING ME?!?
2 days for balance changes to be tested on lamannia?
Can you guys please start listening to players? A balance patch with this many ramifications shouldn't be rushed out the door. I beg you to listen to your playerbase for once.

?
I thought that this was to release: "to release Update 28 Patch 1 and the new DDO Store."

Patching things like the vanishing player's icons in the LFM window, especially since U28 came live...
And not already the balance changes (and AA changes), I thought that was still being discussed and still in preview.

I may be wrong of course, we will know when we see the release notes (or a reaction from the DDO team).

Mojo_d
10-22-2015, 08:53 AM
I don't have this problem because I go to work

and you want a medal for that?here,take a candy.wasnt even replying on a post of yours.

Cordovan
10-22-2015, 09:29 AM
Release Notes (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-patch-1-release-notes) are up.

Uska
10-22-2015, 09:31 AM
just as gimped as the next guy does not mean equally gimped. im not going to play forum word games.

Just as is the same thing as equally at least to any one I know

jalont
10-22-2015, 09:31 AM
Release Notes (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-patch-1-release-notes) are up.

Almost but not quite.

Uska
10-22-2015, 09:34 AM
They won't listen to the playerbase because they are more interested in nerfing everything. And with this patch starts the death of DDO it was fun while it lasted.

1. ddo will be here for awhile

2. Its not really nerfing its rolling back some of the powercreep that never should have been done haven't you seen all the threads on how the game is to easy? I would rather they roll us back then beef up the mobs more because then they might have to beef us up again and continue the power creep

Clemeit
10-22-2015, 09:37 AM
Release Notes (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-patch-1-release-notes) are up.

As of XX:35am, *now* the release notes are up. Thanks!!

Uska
10-22-2015, 09:38 AM
So have I.... in other games that continually pulled this kind of sh*t. And they all fell through. Some people have already quit and went to other games and I don't blame them.

they would have left anyways and name one game that is 1% as good

Clemeit
10-22-2015, 09:39 AM
?
I thought that this was to release: "to release Update 28 Patch 1 and the new DDO Store."

Patching things like the vanishing player's icons in the LFM window, especially since U28 came live...
And not already the balance changes (and AA changes), I thought that was still being discussed and still in preview.

I may be wrong of course, we will know when we see the release notes (or a reaction from the DDO team).

Nope, this is the balancing update. Well, more appropriately, it's the balancing patch. Seemed rushed to you? Yeah, me too. We shall see!

Notes are out: https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-patch-1-release-notes

ForumFrenzy
10-22-2015, 09:42 AM
Ddo is not going anywhere mate, that "death" prediction have been going on for years and there are no evidence to suggest any going concern problem with this game.

No concern, other than a steady shedding of player base that is: http://ddoracle.com/Traffic.html

http://ddoracle.com/images/serverLoadAllYears.big.png

Clemeit
10-22-2015, 09:43 AM
Oh, I didn't seen any mention of this so far, so does anyone know if there is an official word on whether players will be receiving Hearts of Wood or not?

Darkrok
10-22-2015, 09:45 AM
Oh, I didn't seen any mention of this so far, so does anyone know if there is an official word on whether players will be receiving Hearts of Wood or not?

Coupon or some such method of getting two +5 hearts of wood per account (not server/character - just account wide). Also, Fred is offering unlimited Feat swaps with no cooldown for the next 5 days.

Draeqo
10-22-2015, 09:49 AM
Oh, I didn't seen any mention of this so far, so does anyone know if there is an official word on whether players will be receiving Hearts of Wood or not?

In the other post:

"In addition to today's game patch, today’s down time will allow us to open the new DDO Store. You can find out more about the store design and features by clicking here. To celebrate the new Store we'll also be offering a coupon for some free gifts, so we'll post that coupon announcement later today before the worlds open (spoiler alert, it involves two free +5 hearts of wood). . ."

From: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/466800-New-Store-Launches-Today

jalont
10-22-2015, 09:50 AM
No concern, other than a steady shedding of player base that is: http://ddoracle.com/Traffic.html

http://ddoracle.com/images/serverLoadAllYears.big.png

That coincides with the buffing of characters and lack of challenge.

JDCrowell
10-22-2015, 09:58 AM
Huge new feat options for fighters.

I'd really like to see a Lesser Heart in my inventory when I log back in... I don't think we should all have to buy them when so much is being changed.

Don't you realize that is the whole point? To change your builds up so much that you are forced to buy hearts to TR or respec entirely? Warlocks are the reason I came back to DDO from a 1 1/2 year break, and now nerfing Warlocks just might be the reason I leave again.

This was fun, but no longer worth my time. This is the only game I play. I have a life and work 72 hours a week. This was my escape. Now I must re-evaluate how I wish to play....if at all. Today was my only day off this month..so...Guess I'm not playing until next month, so we'll see. It could all turn out ok...only time will tell. I'm just tired of having to change my characters up every time I log in to play. It's probably why I have casters stuck at level 14-15 and a Monk who will probably never cap. They are all weak an no fun.

Oh, and I didn't think Eldritch Blast was casting a spell..? So now ASF applies to it? I'm sorry, but maybe we should get massive to-hit penalties for wearing heavy armor now because it should restrict arm movement? Seems fair to me. So yes, I'm with everyone. I better see at least 1 +20 HOW for free. I have a S&B 'lock that will be completely ineffective now. I either need free XP to quickly TR him, or completely change his class. He is of no use and will be mothballed otherwise.

Thanks.

Chaoscheerio
10-22-2015, 10:02 AM
Release Notes (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-patch-1-release-notes) are up.

All I'm reading in these release notes is that you didn't listen to ANY of the feedback people gave you. Turbine sure listens to its players alright!

jalont
10-22-2015, 10:03 AM
All I'm reading in these release notes is that you didn't listen to ANY of the feedback people gave you. Turbine sure listens to its players alright!

The player base is horrible at game design. If they were in charge, all quests would be a straight hallway with a shrine at the end to click at receive 10 million XP. The devs DID listen to some issues and DID make changes based on them. So much so that the nerfs are now too weak.

Chaoscheerio
10-22-2015, 10:04 AM
The player base is horrible at game design. If they were in charge, all quests would be a straight hallway with a shrine at the end to click at receive 10 million XP. The devs DID listen to some issues and DID make changes based on them. So much so that the nerfs are now too weak.

Also I was wrong. They actually did revert some nerfs. I should learn how to read more carefully. Still upset about the MRR changes but what can ya do...

mkmcgw17
10-22-2015, 10:09 AM
They won't listen to the playerbase because they are more interested in nerfing everything. And with this patch starts the death of DDO it was fun while it lasted.

Lol u r incorrect sir the death of ddo started the day epic levels came out probably before your time. Almost half the people playing ddo quit at that time recognizing it for what it was recycling and the beginning of the end of the game. By the way there r no epic levels in dungeons and dragons.

Raiderone
10-22-2015, 10:14 AM
They won't listen to the playerbase because they are more interested in nerfing everything. And with this patch starts the death of DDO it was fun while it lasted.

Reason they are making the changes is because they are listening to the playerbase. Sometimes I think they listen to the Cryers too much.
This game needs to be tougher and more challenging.

If players cannot handle Elite or Epic Elite then run normal or casual. This game has become a solo game because it's so easy who needs to run in groups.
Elite solo, no problem with BB. EE solo, no problem (not for all players). Face it the Champions were nerf'd because of player feedback Wah! too hard.

It's only been lately a few quests are semi-challenging Elite (with BB). I think it would be nice if this MMO goes back to being an MMO. Not a Solo Game.
Who needs to fill a raid or even worry if you have certain roles when you can breeze thru without worry. I remember when Clerics were needed...

If your membership date is accurate, looks like you've only been hear since Nov 2014. You wouldn't know what it was like at Beta or during DDO's start.
Used to be a time when even normal at level was a challenge. Too many changes during the way to make game simple and more like WOW.

Nerf's or balance are part of the game. Deal with it or leave it's your choice. I'm glad that 10 years later this game still looks for balance.
Even if DDO did cause alot of the imbalance. And I understand the feelings of oh great a nerf is coming. But it's not a nerf of only one play style or one class.
It's balance across the board. Look at Warlocks, they are way overpowered even after several attempts to balance them. And yes, DDO is at fault cause when they make new Class OP
to sell them and then nerf it. But it's either deal with it and accept change or move on. It won't be the first time and certainly won't be the last until this game goes to Maintenance Mode.

Then you won't have to worry about balance changes or worry about exploits.

UurlockYgmeov
10-22-2015, 10:14 AM
Release Notes (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-patch-1-release-notes) are up.

Cordovan's back!

rockingsuphastar
10-22-2015, 10:16 AM
Coupon or some such method of getting two +5 hearts of wood per account (not server/character - just account wide). Also, Fred is offering unlimited Feat swaps with no cooldown for the next 5 days.

Really?

oweieie
10-22-2015, 10:26 AM
All I'm reading in these release notes is that you didn't listen to ANY of the feedback people gave you. Turbine sure listens to its players alright!

Most of the feedback was stupid. 90% of it was people whining that it will take them 10.5 seconds to solo their EE quest rather than 10 seconds.

RumbIe
10-22-2015, 10:27 AM
If I'm not mistaken it looks like they did listen to one "don't nerf" request from the player base. It seems holy sword will still work with xbows so may pally/arty repeater won't be nerfed unless I am misreading something here.

patang01
10-22-2015, 10:27 AM
they would have left anyways and name one game that is 1% as good

That's not true. People left primarily because of Turbines missteps in the aftermath of Shadowfell, including the incentive to burn through content by the use of raid bypass and such. The population didn't stabilize until the strong build up after and around armor up. Stating that 'people would have left anyways' is patently false in that context. I'm not for the nihilistic doom and gloom and this nerf will be to end of all, but lets not sugar coat the facts here. It's an old game that suffered a couple of detrimental blunders. It's not the first game to do that either. Turbines effort to right the ship reversed the course twice; going micro transactions and P2P and listening to the community once the dust settled from several bad choices.

Lets not be blind to the effect of large changes on a small population and dismiss everything as a bunch of black knights. It's just silly how the rah rah on one side and the doom and gloom on the other seem completely oblivious of basic human behavior.

patang01
10-22-2015, 10:38 AM
If I'm not mistaken it looks like they did listen to one "don't nerf" request from the player base. It seems holy sword will still work with xbows so may pally/arty repeater won't be nerfed unless I am misreading something here.

I think it had something to do about some preferred weapons like longbow being covered by certain gods or whatever. A sorta lore thing. It made 'sense' in that context. Another change if I'm not wrong due to someone proving it with math is off hand swords - it was first removed and then added back (I think).

Raiderone
10-22-2015, 10:38 AM
I'll admit, the changes will take some getting used to...just like any change. I'm just frustrated right now. I plan on giving it a chance. I've played too long and enjoyed this game too much to completely give up. Most people saying they are leaving won't actually do it. It probably won't be so bad once I get used to it. Heck, maybe this will even force people into grouping again. Now wouldn't that be an awesome change! I miss running quest chains with a full party. That's what made this game great! You almost couldn't complete anything on Elite unless your party was balanced. I'd love to see that again and more LFMs up.

We'll see. Time will tell. Just means I'll sit here for a few hours staring at my toons when I log in next trying to figure out what I need to change to be more effective. It'll be a challenge, but it's nothing that a little creativity and thought won't fix. We'll see.

LOL and who are you calling a kid? I'd like to think I'm young...certainly don't feel it :P You just must be old or something. I'll be 35 in two weeks....I passed being called a kid a long time ago. ;)

If you've been around long enough, then it's been many changes. I don't look at change as always bad. It's an opportunity to improve your builds.
Heavy Picks were all the rage like five years ago. TWF Khopeshs were the only viable option. If you didn't have Evasion, don't bother to join group.
Sword and Board builds were denied in groups especially raids. Even laughed at and then permanent squelch list. How dare you want to run a less powerful build because of play style or roleplaying.

I have played Warlocks, the Aura build. Way overpowered and even after some balance changes to them, still OP. I didn't even need to fight, just kill all in aura and most but hardiest mobs died before
even needing to use aura blasts. The temporary HP is way OP too. I found warlocks to be boring. If player feedback is right, Warlocks and Casters need Epic improvements while toning them down in Heroic.
I play all classes for the most part. Have 18 different toons on two different accounts. So I have been effected by many nerfs. But it doesnt stop me from enjoying the game and continuing to strive for better builds

oweieie
10-22-2015, 10:41 AM
People left primarily because of Turbines missteps in the aftermath of Shadowfell

The primary reason people leave is because they don't have time to play DDO. The primary reason people don't have time to play DDO is because they are playing another game they like more. The primary reason people like a game more is because it is newer and shinier. Star Wars Battleground and Fallout 4 will be VERY shiny indeed.

ForumFrenzy
10-22-2015, 10:42 AM
Coupon or some such method of getting two +5 hearts of wood per account (not server/character - just account wide). Also, Fred is offering unlimited Feat swaps with no cooldown for the next 5 days.

The shortened Fred to Sunday. Awesome timing considering I am leaving for the weekend today and won't be back until Sunday night. Somehow thinking that I won't be able to take advantage of this free time. Thanks for nothing Turbine. This is the problem with such a ridiculously short adjustment period.

oweieie
10-22-2015, 10:47 AM
I have played Warlocks, the Aura build. Way overpowered and even after some balance changes to them, still OP.

Cone is the most powerful of all and it didn't get touched at all. I'll still be able to get more kills than the entire rest of the party combined without trying in crappy gear I can't be bothered to improve as I see no point. And thanks to the whiners with ToEE EE ranged mobs gimped I won't even have to bother moving my character around to dodge shots or pay attention, I can just put on autoattack and watch a movie.

patang01
10-22-2015, 10:47 AM
Bye is the correct answer. The casualization of the game has lead to the decline in player base. If all the people that don't want a challenge left the game while the devs ignored them, we'd have a much higher population than we do now. Here's a hint, there isn't a single MMO on the market that is easier than DDO. Why? Because they don't last.

Not true.

Most of the so called 'decline' came number wise from several missteps. None of the more than dozen guild members from my guild moved on because they thought things were too casual. The challenge thing is purely driven by elite players usually completionists that have all the gear and goodies and want something to challenge their incremental power. It's not driven by your average player who don't fly through or play EE. Simply not true.

I bet that raid bypasses have had more impact on the day to day player population and the lack of a upper cap and goal than anything. When you got everything and you can blow through content 20 runs in 2-3 days for the 20th there's really no longterm stability. Most of the base are now running content through guild and a small friend list which hurts average gamers play. If anything the xp group event is a resounding success since it expands upper end players to invite anyone instead of their regular small clique.

Feel free to ignore that dynamic and think that if you just put the thumb screws on and drag everyone through glass there's going to be a magic influx of players. To me the answer is really simple. Reintroduce a long term goal for everyone and things like xp grouping events to have the entire base from top to bottom enjoy gaming. The challenge piece you're talking about only effects a small vocal clique. Most others simply see very little point running on empty LFMs with little group dynamic and having already accomplished most things they set out to do.

Personally I look forward to E shroud as a longterm goal and I hope that Turbine nukes the raid bypasses for all new raids for at least 6 months. If they don't E shroud will be another fail event where everyone bombs through it in a month or 2 and then it's completely dead.

FestusHood
10-22-2015, 10:48 AM
LOL and who are you calling a kid? I'd like to think I'm young...certainly don't feel it :P You just must be old or something. I'll be 35 in two weeks....I passed being called a kid a long time ago. ;)

Meh. I'm 51. If you've never worn jeans that were wider at the ankle than they were at the thigh, you're a kid to me.

JDCrowell
10-22-2015, 10:57 AM
Meh. I'm 51. If you've never worn jeans that were wider at the ankle than they were at the thigh, you're a kid to me.

Ok...I'll accept that. LOL

The earliest fashion trend I remember as a kid was rolling my pant legs up in the 80's. So yes, you have me beat by a few years.

patang01
10-22-2015, 10:58 AM
Apologies but I cant hold back here. its the same math used when they nerfed blitrz, people like yourself putting up equations saying its not a nerf blah blah blah. and what happened to blitz? NERFED!!!!!!!!!
Then the next one to drop what the holy sword, look at the math... NERFED!!!!!!
Before that was to Quivering Palm, and monks are broken since the PRR/MRR introduction.
and now you put up new math equations and people are saying its not too bad and I know after the update it will be NERFED!!!!

Now I know I am being negative here, and apologies, as yes I am angry. but I would like to say 2 things that are lacking here which needs to be addressed.
Number 1, concentrate on spending time boosting the classes that that are behind, this is achieving balance rather than nerf everything so that everything is not working or worth investing in.
Number 2, If you want to stop the splash classes from being OP, then concentrate on the pure classes. This means that a pure rogue should have the best achievable evasion and saves. because the player has specialized in the class. ALL 20 LEVELS. So a splash class can not achieve this as they didn't specialize in the class.

Anyways, will see after the patch update to see what is working and not working.
Thanks guys see you ingame.

Hunzi

I'm going to be honest here. The nerf of dps (and blitz is still really nice, better now to maintain) is not that big. Sure, the fix to threat range stings certain weapons - but the real pain will be felt on the armor side. To the extent that you're not one of the many who haven't the additional MRR gear or 9 divine destiny reinc.

DPS wise Warlocks got the most trite nerf while it was slightly scaled back elsewhere. Manyshot hurts tempest rangers since they will most likely don't have a deep invest in AA. Overall, other than the smack to armor, it's across the board reduction that most regular builds can adjust too.

I checked my numbers live and preview server and pally splash skirmish builds with low PRR and MRR will hurt the most. Primarily from damage mitigation. Pally's got smacked, particularly if you're an armor hybrid, but 2wf and 2hf will do fine.

The most tedious part is of course that for those affected hybrids outside pure builds it'll be more time wasted redoing for a more useful build.

I'm looking forward to go back to full vanguard fighter thank tho with those armor feats and dc feats. But I'm sad to say my tempest ranger gotta change substantially, prolly pure AA. I was so excited after the tempest enhancement tree update - he was finally good again. My second toon I ever created.

Oh well.

ForumFrenzy
10-22-2015, 11:04 AM
The whining is strong with this one. You're getting 2 free +5 hearts and all you can do is *****. Please please please just leave the game and **** on something else I don't play.

You sure about that 2 free +5 hearts (BTW per account which sort of stinks for someone with 28 toons - 10ish of which are played regularly)? I saw nothing in the release notes about this. Additionally, considering they stated five days of Fred, what makes you think they aren't going to short-change the 2 free hearts too?

patang01
10-22-2015, 11:05 AM
The primary reason people leave is because they don't have time to play DDO. The primary reason people don't have time to play DDO is because they are playing another game they like more. The primary reason people like a game more is because it is newer and shinier. Star Wars Battleground and Fallout 4 will be VERY shiny indeed.

Too simplistic. It's like saying I bought a new car and now I don't drive the old. There was a reason. It didn't just happen. Fallout 4 will be sweet for sure. Battlegrounds - looks nice. Better than the old game but not my cup of tea. I'm already saving my bottle caps tho.

RumbIe
10-22-2015, 11:06 AM
I think I'd agree that the worst thing to happen to this game, this patch included, is the raid timers. Gaming adjustments players get used to and find new builds. If they decide the nerf is too much then they'll adjust in a future pass. They always do. Plus I'm sure they will focus on other classes and as they reduce the effectiveness of current flavor of the months then other classes and builds may become more appealing. The player base always adapts. If not for changes 'd still be playing my Exploiter build dual kopesh wielding ranger/rogue/monk from when the game first went F2P. Oh wait the last update just possibly made that build viable again. Talk about full circle.

In any case what the player case can't adapt to is the raid timer fiasco. They went and made new items and gear and made it super easy to get. Well not easy by drop rate, but we'll let you run this as frequently as you like to pay and you can get your items. What happens is that now all of a sudden people stop running the new content after a month because they have all they need. So now they need new content again and Turbine has to focus on pushing out new quests and weapons focused on end game as opposed to adding more feat/enhancement content or revamping and adding variety to lower end stuff.

As an example I can't tell you how sick of Korthos and the Harbor I am. Wouldn't it be great if there was a seocnd or third starter area option? I whole new chain of quests that run parallel to the level 1-20 TR grind that we have done so many times. Options upon options. It's good that new content seems to have a heroic set, but it seems forced. No one has taken a whole new plot line from start to finish. Now to me that would be cool. Then you could drop an end game content pack once or twice a year and have people grind that out some with no timers so no one rushes it and balance it with a viable reason to TR besides bragging rights on 20th time completionnist.

patang01
10-22-2015, 11:07 AM
You sure about that 2 free +5 hearts (BTW per account which sort of stinks for someone with 28 toons - 10ish of which are played regularly)? I saw nothing in the release notes about this. Additionally, considering they stated five days of Fred, what makes you think they aren't going to short-change the 2 free hearts too?

I'm sure when they release the discounted deals for the week there will be something about the free hearts per account and the code to use. That's usually how that work.

drathdragon
10-22-2015, 11:22 AM
to continue to nerf classes is not the correct way to add more fun to the game and honestly i am pretty tired to read
people whining about the warlock class.

It's ridiculous

Hoglum
10-22-2015, 11:25 AM
Most of the base are now running content through guild and a small friend list which hurts average gamers play.


Since most of the base run with guilds and friends, I'd think that makes them the average player.

Sunnie
10-22-2015, 11:36 AM
Are the servers open yet?

Nyata
10-22-2015, 11:54 AM
Are the servers open yet?

2 more hours of downtime announced (if my math is correct - I do hate time zones)

Mojo_d
10-22-2015, 11:55 AM
but i'm a pale master! The sun hurts!!!! Hissssssssthththththt.

xd

Vellrad
10-22-2015, 11:58 AM
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b459/vellrad/ddofail_zpsurqo6iia.png

release notes lol

M113k7262
10-22-2015, 12:31 PM
Are they still hoping to bring the servers up at 3pm Eastern?

Kamode_Corebasher
10-22-2015, 12:48 PM
"Deepwood Stalker's Improved Weapon Finesse now works with scimitars if they are considered light weapons for your character."

Which races or classes does this apply to??

Nyata
10-22-2015, 12:48 PM
Are they still hoping to bring the servers up at 3pm Eastern?

well, nothing to the contrary has been announced as far as I can see... but yeh, a status update would be nice, specially since my client has not started to download any updates yet... :)

jalont
10-22-2015, 12:48 PM
well, nothing to the contrary has been announced as far as I can see... but yeh, a status update would be nice, specially since my client has not started to download any updates yet... :)

This. There's no reason to think it's postponed, but at the same time, the client should be downloading the patch by now if we're going by past updates. So maybe there will be a delay.

Tom.JonesJr
10-22-2015, 12:56 PM
Update servers have just come online.

oweieie
10-22-2015, 01:02 PM
Update servers have just come online.

Thanks. Was a quick update.

Nyata
10-22-2015, 01:05 PM
great... looks like all worlds are up, except for khyber... *grumbles*

Ykt
10-22-2015, 01:08 PM
Khyber still down ... applying an "anti-drama" patch to Khyber?

oweieie
10-22-2015, 01:09 PM
great... looks like all worlds are up, except for khyber... *grumbles*

2:00 is break time, doesn't matter if there is 1 server left to bring up or not. ETA 2:00 + 1 smoke break + visit vending machine + washroom break.

ThrakThor
10-22-2015, 01:10 PM
Thanks. Was a quick update.

Yep, in and playing.

I can also see everyone is nerfed, the sky is falling, things are currently quiet in the graveyard, NPC's are fighting each other, Fred is feasting on brains for free (I changed feats 5 times in 60 secs), and MRR has a grave in Deleras.

(Not all of the above statements are true)

Cordovan
10-22-2015, 01:11 PM
All of the DDO game worlds are open except for Khyber! We're working on getting Khyber reopened and will let you know.

Earthbound Misfit
10-22-2015, 01:11 PM
Yep, in and playing.

I can also see everyone is nerfed, the sky is falling, things are currently quiet in the graveyard, NPC's are fighting each other, Fred is feasting on brains for free (I changed feats 5 times in 60 secs), and MRR has a grave in Deleras.

(Not all of the above statements are true)

All is well, I have my hearts

Assassination
10-22-2015, 01:13 PM
How dare they open early!!! This is an outrage!!! I'm going to... huff and puff...:)

Good job guys!

firstprotector
10-22-2015, 01:20 PM
All of the DDO game worlds are open except for Khyber! We're working on getting Khyber reopened and will let you know.

wondering if there is a ETA for us kyber people.

jayne1973
10-22-2015, 01:22 PM
All of the DDO game worlds are open except for Khyber! We're working on getting Khyber reopened and will let you know.

Khyber Haters!!!

Violentbeginning
10-22-2015, 01:22 PM
All of the DDO game worlds are open except for Khyber! We're working on getting Khyber reopened and will let you know.

Khyber was overperforming and needed a nerf

Nyata
10-22-2015, 01:30 PM
Khyber was overperforming and needed a nerf

that's only because all the cool kids play on khyber :)

firstprotector
10-22-2015, 01:52 PM
would really appreciate some info about what is going on with kyber server, did it break or are you all on break.

Kerria
10-22-2015, 01:58 PM
Did you forget to feed the rats again ? You know they can not produce power in the little wheels with no food? lol Seriously it would be nice to get an update eta on it .

Nyata
10-22-2015, 02:02 PM
if only one world has not re-opened, it is probably in the realm of 'something unexpected has gone wrong' and giving an ETA on such things is usually not a good idea unless you devise the scotty principle.

OrodelaSol
10-22-2015, 02:04 PM
All of the DDO game worlds are open except for Khyber! We're working on getting Khyber reopened and will let you know.

That's like saying all major countries will be attending the talks except the United States...commence hating...

firstprotector
10-22-2015, 02:10 PM
update time was 7am to 3pm, now it is after 3, just because it is only 1 server the people that play on that server would still like to know what is going on.

Rilok
10-22-2015, 02:20 PM
update time was 7am to 3pm, now it is after 3, just because it is only 1 server the people that play on that server would still like to know what is going on.

^This, or at least let us know why its down so we can get an idea how long we have to wait.

deadlord43
10-22-2015, 02:21 PM
update time was 7am to 3pm, now it is after 3, just because it is only 1 server the people that play on that server would still like to know what is going on.

I have been in IT for 20 years; it boggles my mind that the server that has the most usage is the one brought up last. I don't particularly care, but methinks they cut their own throats sometimes with the patch mismanagement. Also, since 900% of the players are U.S.-based, why are the patches not done overnight? Players are on in the mornings and late afternoon-evening. If it takes 8 hours, roll it out from 1 AM. to 9 AM; that gives you a whole team in the office in case of problems as opposed to having them stay late.
It's not rocket surgery.
As an addendum, customer service is the #1 priority, and keeping customers informed is the proper way to do it. Even if you tell them every 15 minutes that it is being worked on, it has been my experience that customers are usually OK with waiting. They just want to know what is going on, especially the people for whom this game is digital crack.

Nyata
10-22-2015, 02:26 PM
I have been in IT for 20 years; it boggles my mind that the server that has the most usage is the one brought up last. I don't particularly care, but methinks they cut their own throats sometimes with the patch mismanagement. Also, since 900% of the players are U.S.-based, why are the patches not done overnight? Players are on in the mornings and late afternoon-evening. If it takes 8 hours, roll it out from 1 AM. to 9 AM; that gives you a whole team in the office in case of problems as opposed to having them stay late.
It's not rocket surgery.

patch timing has been discussed ad absurdum in pretty much every update thread and all over the forums, so I really do not want to go into the obvious reasons why they do it the way they do (like not having to call in people for a nightshift, for example, but having the whole staff present and at hand in case stuff goes wrong..)

I guess the 900% is a typo and means 90%, and even there I am curious what that number is supposed to be based on. I for one am rather sure there is a lot more than 10% players in europe, oceania, and so on.

firstprotector
10-22-2015, 02:30 PM
if all servers was still down I know there would be some message about what was going on. 30 minutes after the down time all we want is to know some thing, even though it is just 1 world.

firstprotector
10-22-2015, 02:34 PM
it is up

LXP
10-22-2015, 02:41 PM
it is up

now don't get nasty and dirty, ok? ;)

Cordovan
10-22-2015, 02:47 PM
Khyber has reopened. Thank you!

smithers
10-22-2015, 05:17 PM
So, being a packrat I redeemed the code while having no slots in my bag open.

So I made one spot free and logged out/back and got 1 heart of wood in my bag.

Then I realized the coupon is for 2. So I repeated the process (make room then log) but never got the second heart of wood.

Annoying but not sure I want to log a ticket and hang around hoping to get the thing.

UurlockYgmeov
10-22-2015, 07:37 PM
All of the DDO game worlds are open except for Khyber! We're working on getting Khyber reopened and will let you know.

All the Kobold's on Khyber were attending a joint Kobold Konsortium and Kobold Union membership meeting. We apologize for the delay. Please return to your regularly scheduled program.

fangblackhawk
10-22-2015, 09:07 PM
my 18 barb/ 2 rouge shar lvl 28 toon with ic slash and overwhelming crit, imp thf, G. cleave, dodge toughness, in ravager with lots of occult (drukkin on sarlona) is not getting the crit updated from 20 on non keen Great axes and the only great sword i have is keen so i am not sure there ( keen is applied to min 2 great axe) the imp crit pierce was working on my lvl 28 swash buckler pure bard though ????

phyrephoenix
10-23-2015, 12:49 AM
On alienating your player base yet again. This patch will make players quit and not come back. So if your attempt was to kill DDO, you may just have succeeded.

Robbenklopper
10-23-2015, 06:36 AM
Lesser players does mean lesser lag?! Yay!