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Serow
08-25-2015, 08:14 AM
Hi i'm lookin for some more advice to improve this build, 36pt pdk (or human)
-main EDs: crusader/dread
-Right now i'm still thinkin about either warhammer or khoseph
-fighter weapon focus/spec to increase melee power
-enh are mostly locked with t5+41ap vanguard and core5 defender
-sf:umd, magical training,iron will are placeholder, an option can be start with 14 chha and use force of personality(depends on gear)
-self healing: cocoon or crusader t2+t3

I'd like some advice about gear too, keep in mind that i don't have access to most endgame raid gear except for shoud of ardent.
My basic gear setup on the next post


Here's the build

Vanguard tank
Fighter 20
True Neutral Purple Dragon Knight


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 18. . . .+5. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 10. . . .+5. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14. . . .+5. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 14. . . .+5. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . 14. . . .+5. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+5. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Intim . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Jump. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .4 .14
Heal. . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Search. . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Balance . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
UMD . . . 1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .½ .½ .½ .½ .1 .1 . 5
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 PDK. . : Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
.1 Fighter: Cleave
.2 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing
.3. . . . : Iron Will
.4 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Slashing
.6. . . . : Combat Expertise
.6 Fighter: Great Cleave
.8 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
.9. . . . : Improved Trip
10 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
12. . . . : Magical Training
12 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
14 Fighter: Dodge
15. . . . : Mobility
16 Fighter: Exotic Weapon: Khopesh
18. . . . : Improved Shield Bash
18 Fighter: Shield Mastery
20 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing
26 Destiny: Tactician
27 Epic . : Epic Fortitude
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Purple Dragon Knight (3 AP)
Damage Boost
Improved Recovery

Stalwart Defender (32 AP)
Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance, Stand Fast, Defensive Sweep
Item Defense I, Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery III, Threatening Countenance III
Resilient Defense III, Stalwart Shield Mastery III, Armor Expertise I
Strong Defense III
Swift Defense, Hardy Defense III, Reinforced Shield III

Vanguard (41 AP)
To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion
No Weakness II, Shield Smash III, Unbalancing Shove II
Brutality III, Stunning Shield III, Melee Power Boost III
Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark
Armor Mastery III, Shield Charge III, Myrmidon's Edge III
Shield Charge III, Armored Strength

Kensei (4 AP)
Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades
Haste Boost III

unbongwah
08-25-2015, 08:43 AM
<insert obligatory "TR into pally!" recommendation> :cool:

If you stick with ftr: do you have Harper? You can get some DPS & DC boosts investing KtA+Versatile Adept.

Jiirix
08-25-2015, 09:11 AM
Looks good and should work. IF you can free 2-5 AP somewhere you could get Weapon Group Specialization and the Extra Action Boosts from Kensai. The the Secialization frees a Feat and you can use bastard swords too. I like PA and Precition (I know only one ca be active) on fighters because 25% more crits on 100% fort mobs is quite nice.

Serow
08-25-2015, 09:32 AM
Option 1:
Helm: Epic Minos blue slot

Cloack: Misterius cloack ml21 Green,colorless slot

Belt: Thoughtful remembrance blue or yellow

Neck: Epic vim and vigor, green slot

Armor: Epic sclaes of surety yellow or blue slot

Boots: Epic Boots of the Innocent blue or yellow slot

googles: Epic Glimpse of the Soul with blindness ward /Intricate field optics ml 24 insightful cha 3+cha 7 augment, green slot (with force of personality feat)/greensteel 45hp+3 stacking saves / 45hp blur+displacement clickies

gloves: pdk gloves/iron mitts/ eclaw(work in progress, i can build epic gem of many facets and trigger the set)

Ring1: EN consuming darkness, yellow slot

Ring2:Seal of House Avithoul wisdom version/ring of shadow EN (for blurry)

Trinket: Greater nimble trinket (option 2 for blurry)/Ml 24 treasure hunter spyglass

main hand: thunderforged khosep/warhammer 1st degree+dragon edge

shields:Shield of tireless aid/EN wall of wood

Still hunting for toee upgraded medium armor and weapon for max melee power and thunderforged weapon for high fortification enemies

When i get toee armor and epic claa:

armor:epic toee medium armor

Neck:shroud of ardent

helm: emerald gaze

Gloves:gloves of the claw

Trinket:gem of many facets

Ring 2:Seal of House Avithoul wisdom version

Serow
08-25-2015, 09:43 AM
<insert obligatory "TR into pally!" recommendation> :cool:

If you stick with ftr: do you have Harper? You can get some DPS & DC boosts investing KtA+Versatile Adept.

I know,iknow... been there done that (2tr) it's just a matter of problems: pally has too few feats and less melee power potential, fighter got bad self heals a no holy sword

need to check if core 5 of the defender it's worth the ap or not, if not it would be a good improvement dmg wise

Ty btw, i almost never post on the forum but i read a lot of your post and builds keep up like this :)

Wipey
08-25-2015, 10:32 AM
I play pally but maybe it's useful for fighter too :
head : Sightless
neck : Pendant of quiet movements
trinket : Litany
cloak : Mysterious
belt : Battleragers
ring : still not sure, Circle of Malevolence or random gen charisma of resist or Avithoul
gloves : still not sure, maybe Backstabbers, never got lucky with Mod quiver.
boots : Many Hooked
ring : whatever Tod ring with hjeal amp
bracers : Ethereal
armour : Shadow heavy
eyes : Visions of Precision or Glimpse of the soul for stupid disjunction quests like Mod

t3 TF khop + Ultimatum

Don't see point of Intim, I'd sure take Stun Blow and keep Magical Training on fighter. Probably eToughness too.
I had much fun as kensei with Trip, Stun Blow and LD stuff.

the_one_dwarfforged
08-25-2015, 06:10 PM
what is your goal, to be a tank/tanky, or to be a snb dps chracter? it is a little bit difficult to give advice that will be useful otherwise, though i can safely say that paladin is much stronger either way. the moderate mp lead fighters have over pallies isnt worth the sacrifice in self heals unless you just really want to play a fighter. im fairly certain paladins have better dps too, between holy sword vs no keen edge on a vg ftr, zeal vs no alacrity on a vg ftr, and only a bit less mp. that extra multiplier is just huge.

in any case, im going to assume you are looking for a dps vanguard fighter as opposed to some fail tank.



first off, i think you spend way too many points in stalwart. defensive sweep is listed as an action boost, which means that even if its functioning properly its got limited uses and only allows you to hit 1 additional enemy. its not necessarily a bad ability, but imo it costs way too many of your ap to pick it up and isnt that strong. cleaves are for aoe, they last forever and hit everything, not just 2 enemies.

i would spend 13 points in stalwart, just enough to pick up defensive stance with 25 prr/mrr, +2 mdb, +3 comp saves, and +6 comp str. depending on how your stats end up at 28, you may or may not want to spend an additional 2 points picking up +1 str. overbalance also is a good choice since your using a shield, and would only cost 1 additional ap.

that gives you 13-16 points left to spend. unfortunately that means you have to make a choice between picking up power surge or mp from harper. given the relative uselessness of tactics currently, and the fact that harper will be more dps and still add to tactics, id say go harper. pick up the first 2 tiers of mp, and kta, which would only cost 14 points. assuming you spend a point on overbalance in sd, youll have 1 point left to put wherever, i think id recommend taking the last rank of stalwart armor mastery in this case.



as far as starting stats go, thats a really bad split, imo. 14 wisdom is a massive waste. assuming your will save at 28 is lower than my fighters due to less gear/tomes/pastlives/whatever (you mentioned suboptimal gear...other things are assumptions that follow from that), then i can assure you +3 to your will save is not going to help you at all. the way a fighter deals with will saves is magic circle against evil scrolls, fom pot, gust of wind scrolls, learning how to trigger symbol of stunning without getting hti by it most of the time, harper pin, unstoppable, learning how to fight outside of will save aoes in general, using stun/stunning shield/trip to cc casters before they cc you, and how to use los to simply not be targetable by a will based disable. a realistic lvl 28 fighter will save is not going to save you from much and will not be reliable. 3 pts more isnt going to change that.

your starting intelligence should be calculated so that at level 28 when you are fully buffed, or buffed with the self buffs you are going to be willing to use all the time, you int mod divided by two will be an integer. for example, youd want an end int of 30, 34, 38, 42, 46, 50, etc. adjust your starting int to accommodate that if necessary.

personally, i wouldnt start my dex at 10 in order to pick up dodge and mobility, id take those build points and put them into either int as needed or con, and spend those two feats on more mp or something more valuable to me. otoh, if you really like building up your dodge and they help you raise it without either exceeding or remaining far under your dodge cap, then i guess i could get behind that.



as far as feats go, i can say with absolute certainty that you should immediately drop iron will, combat expertise, and improved trip. improved trip isnt worth 2 feats, combat expertise adds nothing, and iron will doesnt make a difference. unless you really need it and you are actually using heal scrolls to heal yourself (which you should be), id drop +umd too. depending on whether you have a bauble or vile blasphemy/ies, korthos trinket, or twisted talisman (or even the eross maybe, who knows) then i may drop magical training. i personally dont need it, but if you do, yea its a pretty solid fighter feat. i dont think epic fortitude is worth it, id get 10 more prr because ever bit of defense counts on a class like fighter which has difficulties keeping themselves up.

feats i think you should take instead: quickdraw, however many additional weapon f/s feats that are applicable to melee weapons (for additional mp), improved sunder (not as strongly recommended but its useful). also you may want to consider using bastard swords and picking up the thf feat line. it wont give you any more mp, but you will get 60% glancing blow damage, which may possibly be better than going khopesh. id really recommend against warhammers, because it only becomes as useful as a khopesh in dreadnaught, is worse in dc, and who has geared any of their characters for warhammmers at all levels...



for gear, this is what i would aim for:

goggles: visions of precision
helm: sightless
necklace: necklace of mystic eidolons/pendant of quiet movements (also veriks if you can pull off musical items without sacrificing anything/much at the start of a quest)
trinket: epic litany
cloak: deadly of resistance
belt: battle ragers harness
swappable ring: consuming darkness/tod hamp ring/whatever
gloves: epic fanged gloves
boots: many hooked greaves
permanent ring: strange tidings
bracers: steady handed armbands/bracers of the twisting shade
armor: med/heavy shadowscale with shadow striker upgrade

weapon: tf, its just all around more useful and toee set means you are sacrificing stuff if youre not twf.

Nightmanis
08-25-2015, 08:10 PM
The worst part for me is the Kensei Capstone. 41ap into there plus the 31ap for the 18 core of Vanguard makes for next to nothing for anything else. Right now I'm testing a setup where I only have keen edge, 18 core of vanguard, stalwart stance and tier 2 KTA. My fighter runs in DC and wears the epic inferno bracers because why not max out the damage of consecration? I had another thread somewhere where we were discussing exactly the setup on how to make an optimal DC Vanguard fighter.

I need to update that thread. Figure out a better gear setup and finish out some of my weapons.

the_one_dwarfforged
08-25-2015, 10:47 PM
The worst part for me is the Kensei Capstone. 41ap into there plus the 31ap for the 18 core of Vanguard makes for next to nothing for anything else. Right now I'm testing a setup where I only have keen edge, 18 core of vanguard, stalwart stance and tier 2 KTA. My fighter runs in DC and wears the epic inferno bracers because why not max out the damage of consecration? I had another thread somewhere where we were discussing exactly the setup on how to make an optimal DC Vanguard fighter.

I need to update that thread. Figure out a better gear setup and finish out some of my weapons.

this is why pally is so much better than fighter for snb specifically. paladin sacrifices nothing and can easily stay alive and make saves, and is inherently better at both umd and intimidate. its truly disgusting.

Nightmanis
08-25-2015, 11:22 PM
this is why pally is so much better than fighter for snb specifically. paladin sacrifices nothing and can easily stay alive and make saves, and is inherently better at both umd and intimidate. its truly disgusting.

I've been looking into the kensei tree to see what could change. Obviously I'm not gonna post it here because I'm not gonna hijack this thread, but if they changed some stuff in the weapon meditation row to be was OR int it would be more thematic.

Like I love the changes to the weapon focus feats. I love the idea of using kta on a fighter because it gives the illusion of the master battle strategist versus the raw fury of the barbarian or the divine protection of the paladin.

I'd be fine if they put an absolute massive amount of melee and ranged power in the cores instead of messing with keen edge, so they don't get the massive crits of the barbs, but do make better use of what they have.

kemetka
08-26-2015, 09:06 AM
If ya do another fighter life, and its S&B id highly recommend going with weapon focus / spec / greater bludgeoning, this way it all carries over to shield as well.

I'm easily able to keep up in terms both of dps and surviviability using Phosphor (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Phosphor) and Talon (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Talon) for late heroics / early epics ( till around level 24ish ) add ring of lies and its a lot of fun. Between improved deception and phosphor's blindness ability its pretty potent, slot in a meteoric to both weapon and shield for extra stuff.

roll a 20 on a cleave and its AOE blind, pretty useful.

unbongwah
08-26-2015, 09:34 AM
If ya do another fighter life, and its S&B id highly recommend going with weapon focus / spec / greater bludgeoning, this way it all carries over to shield as well.
Unless something's changed recently, blunt weapon feats do nothing for shields. :(

Serow
08-26-2015, 12:36 PM
Lots of good advices


Thanks for the help will add and updated build soon

-removed most the feats you did point

-new feats stunning blow(to keep follow up active), precision(forgot about it), quick draw

-quick draw: i never used this one even when i did play dread as a swash or pally 20. Does it cut so much cooldowns?

i'll keep dodge/mobility with a 11-12 dodge item and an augment it should be possible hit 18-20% dodge for medium armor... need to try stuff.
In case i can fill dodge of med armor+enhancement anyway i may opt for more weapon focus and drop 1 dex and hit 17 int for easy 38 (KTA)

-enhancement: updated for KTA... still with 15 +5 tome +11 item +1 ex +2 ship + 2 insight.. it's 36 i can adjust for 34, maybe 38... or hit 34 with 16 base +8 augment and spare myself some geat tetris

-lv 27 feat: still not sure..... when i start add up defender, shield, some sheltering, 4-5 etr bonus to prr i should be quite close to 150 prr, after that it doesn't pay much add more

As far as your gear choices nothing to say, they're the last raid stuff for the most so no doubt is good... as i did write in previous post gear set heavy on the raid stuff will mostly remain on paper (or forum)



Unless something's changed recently, blunt weapon feats do nothing for shields. :(

I'm quite sure IC:blunt doesn't work, hit and dmg from feats... no idea, non-sombat style feats melee power it's generic melee power so it should add

Still the specialization line is not that bad now: feats average at 0,6 hit 0,6 dmg and 2 MP

we just miss something like "superior weapon specialization" to finish the line

last thing about trip/stun: did they become not viable for u 27 stuff?

Serow
08-26-2015, 12:42 PM
Vanguard tank
Fighter 20
True Neutral Purple Dragon Knight


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 18. . . .+5. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 10. . . .+5. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 16. . . .+5. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 15. . . .+5. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+5. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+5. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Intim . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Jump. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .4 .14
Heal. . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Search. . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Balance . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
UMD . . . 1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .½ .½ .½ .½ .1 .1 . 5
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7
. . . . .20. 5. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 8. 8


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 PDK. . :
.1 Fighter: Cleave
.2 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing
.3. . . . : Stunning Blow
.4 Fighter: Great Cleave
.6. . . . : Quick Draw
.6 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Slashing
.8 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
.9. . . . : Magical Training
10 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
12. . . . : Precision
12 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
14 Fighter: Dodge
15. . . . : Mobility
16 Fighter: Exotic Weapon: Khopesh
18. . . . : Improved Shield Bash
18 Fighter: Shield Mastery
20 Fighter: Improved Shield Mastery
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing
26 Destiny: Tactician
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Purple Dragon Knight (3 AP)
Damage Boost
Improved Recovery

Stalwart Defender (21 AP)
Toughness, Stalwart Defense, Overbalance
Item Defense II, Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery III, Threatening Countenance III
Resilient Defense III
Strong Defense III
Swift Defense

Vanguard (42 AP)
To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion
No Weakness II, Shield Smash III, Unbalancing Shove II
Brutality II, Stunning Shield III, Melee Power Boost III
Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark
Armor Mastery III, Shield Charge III, Myrmidon's Edge III
Shield to the Face, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength

Harper Agent (8 AP)
Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Know the Angles III

Kensei (6 AP)
Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades
Extra Action Boost I, Haste Boost III


Still one more free feat choice, sould be mostly good to go

the_one_dwarfforged
08-26-2015, 09:01 PM
-new feats stunning blow(to keep follow up active), precision(forgot about it), quick draw...

-quick draw: i never used this one even when i did play dread as a swash or pally 20. Does it cut so much cooldowns?

-lv 27 feat: still not sure..... when i start add up defender, shield, some sheltering, 4-5 etr bonus to prr i should be quite close to 150 prr, after that it doesn't pay much add more

As far as your gear choices nothing to say, they're the last raid stuff for the most so no doubt is good... as i did write in previous post gear set heavy on the raid stuff will mostly remain on paper (or forum)

last thing about trip/stun: did they become not viable for u 27 stuff?

i didnt notice that you didnt have stunning blow, its a pretty great feat to have in my opinion, good decision taking it.

quickdraw removes the hidden gcd that is associated with a lot of actions, and increases attack speed with throwing weapons (which are the best ranged weapons for a str build with no manyshot), and also reduces the time it takes to equip armors (not that that means much). its impact is definitely noticeable. it does not however lower the actual cooldown of any abilities.

at 28 my fighter was hitting like 180ish (maybe like mid 170s? i dont remember...) prr. while the % value of adding 10 prr diminishes from the last 10 prr you added to your character, in my opinion it is entirely worth it. if you have to sacrifice something important for that 10 prr, thats a different story, but in this case i dont think that you are. if 150 prr was all it took to turn a character into a god, a lot of light armor type builds would be a lot more effective relative to heavy armor builds than they actually are.

i recognize the issue with my gear recommendations as far as actually acquiring them, i still suggested those items for 2 reasons. 1) so if you should be able to acquire one of those or something else, you have at least 1 persons opinion on what is better, or if you do a random stay at the inn or madstone and someone is giving away the bracers, youll know that they are an item youd probably want. 2) if you look at the stats on each of the item youll be able to tell what stats are important or not or where a good place to slot them is.

with u27, stunning blow and trip are pretty much useless in the raid dude to the high amount of rednames and a bug with half of the orange nameds. in the quests, they are mostly useful on tieflings as in ee with a roughly 90 stunning blow dc my success rate on reavers is less than 30%. they are still good things to have and use though, on say the casters in the new amrath and all other content where your dc is actually landable.