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Shavron
08-23-2015, 08:30 AM
So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.

DDOKillingMachine
08-23-2015, 09:45 AM
this screams bad design.

No, it doesn't. It would only scream bad design if those quests were required to flag for something like GH or the Shroud. They are not. Not all quests should be soloable. But in this case, you might try looking in the Auction House for Detect Secret Doors.

Simple solution to a non-problem.

Enoach
08-23-2015, 09:52 AM
All quests designed during the time when this Quest was created was based on a Balanced Party of Four. What this means is you need to compensate for the lack of primary skills that would normally be needed when questing. I'm honestly surprised that your LFM went unanswered for 2 hours.

Now that being said I believe the DC is not over 20.

You don't specify what bonus you are getting from gear or if you are getting the +2 or just +1 from the int buff

Things to try.
1. Find Secret Door (First level spell so has a low UMD)
2. Heroism
3. Search Item
4. Rogue Hireling (I believe at that level it is 10 to 25 TP) <- you will also get the Trap bonus

Now something that you will want to have on your list is to get the Voice of the Master (Deleria's Series end reward) and Mantle of the World Shaper (Threnal Series end reward). Wearing both of these at the same time gives you DM Vision (True Seeing) which will help you find these types of doors.

blerkington
08-23-2015, 10:17 AM
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

Hi,

I don't think an underprepared character being unable to deal with the occasional curveball like a secret door is bad design. As people have pointed out, there are ways to deal with secret doors, and the quest is only one of a few like that.

I'd be far more inclined to agree with the statement that a first life character being able to handle all combat and survive traps on the hardest difficulty setting available in the game is bad design.

It's really a matter of perspective.

Thanks.

FranOhmsford
08-23-2015, 10:18 AM
No, it doesn't. It would only scream bad design if those quests were required to flag for something like GH or the Shroud. They are not. Not all quests should be soloable. But in this case, you might try looking in the Auction House for Detect Secret Doors.

Simple solution to a non-problem.

Standard DSD items don't work in Keeper's Sanctuary! {A 10th Lvl Wand might if you have the UMD for it or can cast the actual spell!}

I'm guessing it also doesn't work in Church and the Cult anymore.

This is because the Devs decided that DSD was too powerful and nerfed it HARD!
They nerfed True Seeing as well but that should still work in Base Lvl 9 quests.


It's not Bad design as BOTH of these quests were built when DDO was meant to be a Group Game and you were supposed to have a Trapper in Group!

What it actually is is the Implementation of Nerfs without looking at the whole picture and adapting certain quests to fit those nerfs!


Church and the Cult's first Secret Door should in no way have a Search DC of more than 10 {I don't know if the OP was counting a Heroism Pot on his Score but if not Heroism Pots are easily available and should be in your inventory at all times!}.
A Pot of Fox's is actually only +2 to Search and stacks with a Pot of Heroism for a total of +4!

Keeper's Sanctuary seriously needs to no longer require Haunted Library to be completed before you can pick it up!
Again the Search DCs shouldn't be that high as these are quest required Secret Doors NOT Optionals!



P.S. It might be expensive for a newbie but +6 Int items are available as early as Lvl 9 and will give +3 to search {they won't stack with Fox's though as they're the same higher bonus}.
You can use one of these as a swap in when needed rather than drinking Fox's Pots.

AbyssalMage
08-23-2015, 10:44 AM
So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.
I've finished both quests with a skill relative to yours ( I want to say lower but unwilling to commit to that seeings I am not in game. I know I have 0 points in the search skill, no tomes, but do have ship buffs).

Maybe this is a "new" problem. By "new" I mean bad programming that only shows up on certain instances or possibly something they broke in the last 1 or 2 updates (U27.1 or the recent emergency patch). Sorry it was a roadblock.

Talon_Moonshadow
08-23-2015, 11:01 AM
If only there was a way to bring other players along with you so that someone else could help you find the door...

Seikojin
08-23-2015, 12:06 PM
So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.

I am sorry you couldn't find that door as a paladin and no lfm's allowed you to get the search you needed to find the door.

However searching is not a paladins forte, so I can see the difficulty on elite being appropriate.

You could have opened the ddo store and got a gold seal rogue hireling iirc.

Not every quest was designed to be done with each individual class. So if a main line path requires a rogue, you will either have to get a rogue or skip that quest until you can get a rogue. Pen and paper works like this, and so does ddo.

Qhualor
08-23-2015, 12:17 PM
So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.

back when the devs changed detect secret doors, it was supposed to be that any secret door that was required for quest advancement had a low enough search skill. I always bring a rogue hire for those quests for the extra xp, so I wasn't aware those have a high search requirement still. it does need to be fixed.

FranOhmsford
08-23-2015, 05:42 PM
I am sorry you couldn't find that door as a paladin and no lfm's allowed you to get the search you needed to find the door.

However searching is not a paladins forte, so I can see the difficulty on elite being appropriate.

You could have opened the ddo store and got a gold seal rogue hireling iirc.

Not every quest was designed to be done with each individual class. So if a main line path requires a rogue, you will either have to get a rogue or skip that quest until you can get a rogue. Pen and paper works like this, and so does ddo.

You also don't HAVE to do every single quest at BB level!

If you can't afford a Gold Seal Rogue you can always go back to that quest at a higher level when you have a +10 Search item or even at Lvl 21 when you can pick up an Epic Rogue Hire for Plat!



back when the devs changed detect secret doors, it was supposed to be that any secret door that was required for quest advancement had a low enough search skill. I always bring a rogue hire for those quests for the extra xp, so I wasn't aware those have a high search requirement still. it does need to be fixed.

This ^!

Qhualor is right - The Devs did state that Secret Doors required for quest completion would be reduced in DC to very low numbers.

However - The OP stated he had 9 Search with Fox's in a Lvl 9 quest - Let's assume the OP was playing that quest on Elite at BB level which would be Lvl 11 and see what the OP could have brought with him:

Int 6 Item - +1 above Fox's
Heroism Pot - +2
+7 Search item - Available at Lvl 5 on random loot - By level 11 this should be easy to find.

So the OP could have got a Search of 19 with relative ease!

There's also http://ddowiki.com/page/True_Seeing_(spell) if the OP has the UMD for Scrolls of it this will find any Secret Door with a DC of 30 or less!
and http://ddowiki.com/page/True_Seeing_(enchantment) which is available as early as Lvl 13 - http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Teraza%27s_Perfect_Sight

SirValentine
08-24-2015, 04:26 AM
Keeper's Sanctuary seriously needs to no longer require Haunted Library to be completed before you can pick it up!


There's nothing wrong with having quest chains where you have to do the quests in order. Not sure why you're suggesting to nerf just this one chain.

Lonnbeimnech
08-24-2015, 04:53 AM
So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.

I had a similar problem the other day. Went into keeper's sanctuary on a first life rogue and I couldn't turn undead!

EllisDee37
08-24-2015, 05:29 AM
My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.First life paladins don't make good trappers, or even searchers. 9 search is super low for a level 9 quest.

FranOhmsford
08-24-2015, 08:37 AM
There's nothing wrong with having quest chains where you have to do the quests in order. Not sure why you're suggesting to nerf just this one chain.

Chain?

You're kidding right?

Keeper's Sanctuary is in Delera's Graveyard - It's a Delera's side-quest!
That you can't pick it up until you've completed Haunted Library is an aberration!


And sorry but removing the need to flag for a quest that doesn't give anything special is most definitely not a "Nerf"!
People are still going to run Haunted Library! It's a pretty popular quest! But maybe a few more might run Keeper's Sanctuary too if they didn't HAVE to run HL first!

Qhualor
08-24-2015, 08:48 AM
Chain?

You're kidding right?

Keeper's Sanctuary is in Delera's Graveyard - It's a Delera's side-quest!
That you can't pick it up until you've completed Haunted Library is an aberration!


And sorry but removing the need to flag for a quest that doesn't give anything special is most definitely not a "Nerf"!
People are still going to run Haunted Library! It's a pretty popular quest! But maybe a few more might run Keeper's Sanctuary too if they didn't HAVE to run HL first!

It's part of a storyline. Something I would like to see more of but only seen in low levels. It's just like you have to do Baudrys chain before doing HIPS before doing RI quests.

Shavron
08-24-2015, 08:57 AM
Yah i get the idea.
I used a +5 search item and have nothing that give +int because i didn't think that i would need one.

+1 from voice of the master and +2 hero pots and that's all i can remember.
Fact is it's frustrating because it's a waste of time and frankly it's useless.
I hate this quest any way i was doing it for favor.

Also i did search the auction house for a +7 or more search but coudn't find more than the +5 that i have.

when i join a guild i will do it with guild mates.

Coyopa
08-24-2015, 09:49 AM
Yah i get the idea.
I used a +5 search item and have nothing that give +int because i didn't think that i would need one.

+1 from voice of the master and +2 hero pots and that's all i can remember.
Fact is it's frustrating because it's a waste of time and frankly it's useless.
I hate this quest any way i was doing it for favor.

Also i did search the auction house for a +7 or more search but coudn't find more than the +5 that i have.

when i join a guild i will do it with guild mates.

Yep. You lost the whole two or three minutes in that quest! I mean, imagine all the things you could have done in that time!

FranOhmsford
08-24-2015, 09:57 AM
Yah i get the idea.
I used a +5 search item and have nothing that give +int because i didn't think that i would need one.

Then that was your mistake - Even at Lvl 9 {the base level of these two quests} a +7 Search item shouldn't be hard to find.


+1 from voice of the master and +2 hero pots and that's all i can remember.
Fact is it's frustrating because it's a waste of time and frankly it's useless.
I hate this quest any way i was doing it for favor.

Doing it for Favour? What Level are you? If you're running these two quests for Favour then I'd assume you must be at least Lvl 18 - Just wait till 21 and grab an Epic Rogue Hire for Plat!


Also i did search the auction house for a +7 or more search but coudn't find more than the +5 that i have.

Ouch - Bad Auction House!

Even so...You've stated you were doing these quests for Favour so wait till you're higher level and do them then!


when i join a guild i will do it with guild mates.

Lol - You don't know much about Guilds in DDO then!

Don't expect your Guild mates to even be at the same level as you, to want to do that quest when you want to do it OR even to have any Guild mates online at the same time as you!

Talon_Moonshadow
08-24-2015, 10:04 AM
I had a similar problem the other day. Went into keeper's sanctuary on a first life rogue and I couldn't turn undead!

lol

lyrecono
08-24-2015, 01:01 PM
So i tried doing The Church and the Cult quest on Elite only to fail at the first door as i think it needs more search skill than i have.

Same thing with The Keeper's Sanctuary on Hard.

My search skill is 9 "paladin first life" with all my gear and a potion of fox cunning.

Why does a quest have an obstacle like this that prevent me to advance the quest?

Optional doors are no problem but to prevent me from finishing the main objective and wasting my time trying to do a quest that i have no hope of doing?
Tough mobs and traps are no problem at my current level but this screams bad design.

And i did try to host a party but no one showed after 2 hours but that's not my main issue.

sight, this is wrong on so many levels

First, a first lifer shouldn't be doing quests on elite that were designed to be run with more party members in mind.
Second, you could have worked around it, detect secret doors or the DM set works as well.
Third, you imply that you're over level, did you keep that in mind whille posting an lfm?
when you use detect secret doors or true seeing scrolls, make sure you take of any armor (if aplicable), armor has a skill penalty to search and arcane spell failure on some scrolls (for some reason that is bugged)

It doesn't scream bad design but bad assumptions on your side

FranOhmsford
08-24-2015, 01:40 PM
when you use detect secret doors or true seeing scrolls, make sure you take of any armor (if aplicable), armor has a skill penalty to search and arcane spell failure on some scrolls (for some reason that is bugged)

http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_Check

Armor does NOT give a skill penalty to Search!

ASF and scrolls is a different story - Detect Secret Doors is an Arcane Spell and therefore suffers ASF... http://ddowiki.com/page/Arcane_Spell_Failure.
Not sure about True Seeing as this is a Divine as well as Arcane Spell but considering the Wiki states that Bards and Artis will suffer ASF for use of Wizard spells that they also have then it's probably also true of Divine/Arcane cross-over spells.

Enoach
08-24-2015, 01:48 PM
Yah i get the idea.
I used a +5 search item and have nothing that give +int because i didn't think that i would need one.

+1 from voice of the master and +2 hero pots and that's all i can remember.
Fact is it's frustrating because it's a waste of time and frankly it's useless.
I hate this quest any way i was doing it for favor.

Also i did search the auction house for a +7 or more search but coudn't find more than the +5 that i have.

when i join a guild i will do it with guild mates.

Let's look at options that could help improve your current search outside of getting a new search item on the AH.

If you have any Cannith crafting skills it might be possible to create a Search Item +7 Search is ML5 Arcane Crafting Level 37

Based on what you have you had
05 Equipment Bonus
01 Luck Bonus (Voice of the Master)
02 Fox's Cunning potion (+4 Intelligence)
02 Heroism potion
--
10 applied to your current search skill. In this case based on your response that it is 9 that your Intelligence prior to the Fox's Cunning potion is an 8 or 9 (-1 Modifier)

Now, UMD is the next option. Things that could potentially add
Level 2 Divine Scroll Find Traps - Will add +1 Sacred Bonus to search. UMD is 24 If you have a UMD of at least 4 you could get away hoping that you roll a 20, any more which would potentially come from your Charisma and boost there (Keepin min that the Heroism and Luck Bonuses would apply here as long as UMD is unlocked and at level 9 max paladin investment would be 4 or 11 it would be 5)

http://ddowiki.com/page/List_of_Hirelings is a list of hirelings, but I don't think there are any below Level 12 that have Greater Heroism as an option

However, a Gold Seal Rogue between level 9 and 12 would be 20 to 40 TP. This is the between 100 and 200 Favor to earn enough TP (25 TP per 100 Favor earned). At this level it would be useful in both Cult and Keepers so might be worth the TP especially since both quests have a decent amount of traps for the 30% trap bonus.


An Intelligence item that exceeds the +4 bonus but by a number that would get you +1 more

Enoach
08-24-2015, 02:06 PM
[url]...
Not sure about True Seeing as this is a Divine as well as Arcane Spell but considering the Wiki states that Bards and Artis will suffer ASF for use of Wizard spells that they also have then it's probably also true of Divine/Arcane cross-over spells.

Just to clarify. Any spell that is an Arcane spell is considered arcane even if it is used by any other class group such as Divine.

In this case True Seeing would have an ASF check.

moomooprincess
08-24-2015, 04:34 PM
I just entered Church and the Cult on ELITE on my warforged sorceror. Search skill = 8

My secret door clickie found the door.

Exited quest.

Re-entered quest on ELITE with my 7th level Drow paladin, search skill = 2.

My secret door clickie found the door.

Moral of the Story: Find a secret door Clickie. They can be found in game(in at least two easy places without having to do a quest) and as end rewards of chain quests.

Eventually they don't work though when quests get too high of a level.

Question:

Do you also complain about doors that require STRENGTH to open?

Do you complain about the runes that require certain characteristics to be a high level?

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/06/02/wine_cheese_room300_080602111532852_wideweb__300x3 11.jpg

SirValentine
08-25-2015, 01:46 AM
Chain?

You're kidding right?


No, I'm not kidding.

Their story is linked. The quest-giver of the 2nd quest doesn't trust you until you've helped his buddy in the first quest. It's a chain by any reasonable definition of chain I've seen.

Where, precisely, the quest entrances are located is beside the point.

lyrecono
08-25-2015, 02:44 AM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_Check

Armor does NOT give a skill penalty to Search!

ASF and scrolls is a different story - Detect Secret Doors is an Arcane Spell and therefore suffers ASF... http://ddowiki.com/page/Arcane_Spell_Failure.
Not sure about True Seeing as this is a Divine as well as Arcane Spell but considering the Wiki states that Bards and Artis will suffer ASF for use of Wizard spells that they also have then it's probably also true of Divine/Arcane cross-over spells.

hmmmmmm, i just had to look this up and you're right.
I still think it should penalize spot, listen and search ..... maybe my rog multiclass should start wearing plate too, hide and move silent dc's are too darn high, i might as well go plate for combat and leather for reaching trap boxes.........
But yeah, i stand corrected, a +1 for you

lyrecono
08-25-2015, 02:51 AM
Let's look at options that could help improve your current search outside of getting a new search item on the AH.

If you have any Cannith crafting skills it might be possible to create a Search Item +7 Search is ML5 Arcane Crafting Level 37

Based on what you have you had
05 Equipment Bonus
01 Luck Bonus (Voice of the Master)
02 Fox's Cunning potion (+4 Intelligence)
02 Heroism potion
--
10 applied to your current search skill. In this case based on your response that it is 9 that your Intelligence prior to the Fox's Cunning potion is an 8 or 9 (-1 Modifier)

Now, UMD is the next option. Things that could potentially add
Level 2 Divine Scroll Find Traps - Will add +1 Sacred Bonus to search. UMD is 24 If you have a UMD of at least 4 you could get away hoping that you roll a 20, any more which would potentially come from your Charisma and boost there (Keepin min that the Heroism and Luck Bonuses would apply here as long as UMD is unlocked and at level 9 max paladin investment would be 4 or 11 it would be 5)

http://ddowiki.com/page/List_of_Hirelings is a list of hirelings, but I don't think there are any below Level 12 that have Greater Heroism as an option

However, a Gold Seal Rogue between level 9 and 12 would be 20 to 40 TP. This is the between 100 and 200 Favor to earn enough TP (25 TP per 100 Favor earned). At this level it would be useful in both Cult and Keepers so might be worth the TP especially since both quests have a decent amount of traps for the 30% trap bonus.


An Intelligence item that exceeds the +4 bonus but by a number that would get you +1 more

Greater heroism +4 to saves and skills (among other stuff) comes on a belt that drops in a f2p quest, they are unbound too, so yo can send them to alts using the shared bank or the mail system

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Planar_Gird

using a clicy helps you avoid the arc spell failure for the scroll(i checked this time XD) and avoids the need for a UMD roll

Qhualor
08-25-2015, 05:55 AM
I just entered Church and the Cult on ELITE on my warforged sorceror. Search skill = 8

My secret door clickie found the door.

Exited quest.

Re-entered quest on ELITE with my 7th level Drow paladin, search skill = 2.

My secret door clickie found the door.

Moral of the Story: Find a secret door Clickie. They can be found in game(in at least two easy places without having to do a quest) and as end rewards of chain quests.

Eventually they don't work though when quests get too high of a level.

Question:

Do you also complain about doors that require STRENGTH to open?

Do you complain about the runes that require certain characteristics to be a high level?

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/06/02/wine_cheese_room300_080602111532852_wideweb__300x3 11.jpg

strength requirements to open doors was lowered years ago. there are also casting options to open a lot of them.

the only rune I can think of needed to get into a room is the Int rune in Wiz King. that was also lowered to I think an 8 Int years ago.

Shavron
08-25-2015, 06:32 AM
Again as i Have said before This isn't to complain about optional objective but the main one.

Also i ran almost every every quest now on elite with no problem....noting that require high wisdom or high int or dex.

Could have been better that if MAIN objectives needs a cretin skill or stat check would have more than 1 way to solve.

I did however finish the church of the cult after getting a +6 int item from a chest in gianthold to swap if any BS like this happen again.

Don't know why is every one angry as if i kicked their cat.....a simple get better gear would have been enough.

Coyopa
08-25-2015, 07:43 AM
Again as i Have said before This isn't to complain about optional objective but the main one.

Also i ran almost every every quest now on elite with no problem....noting that require high wisdom or high int or dex.

Could have been better that if MAIN objectives needs a cretin skill or stat check would have more than 1 way to solve.

I did however finish the church of the cult after getting a +6 int item from a chest in gianthold to swap if any BS like this happen again.

Don't know why is every one angry as if i kicked their cat.....a simple get better gear would have been enough.

Because you didn't even try trivial things to meet the requirements to open the door, such as getting a Detect Secret Doors clicky, buying a rogue hire from the DDO store, getting a True Seeing item (especially since you're high enough level to use one trivially), and so on. Instead, you just come on the forums and whine about how your 9 Search skill can't find a secret door in a level 11 quest (9 base, 11 on elite) and how the quest should be made easier.

Shavron
08-25-2015, 08:14 AM
Because you didn't even try trivial things to meet the requirements to open the door, such as getting a Detect Secret Doors clicky, buying a rogue hire from the DDO store, getting a True Seeing item (especially since you're high enough level to use one trivially), and so on. Instead, you just come on the forums and whine about how your 9 Search skill can't find a secret door in a level 11 quest (9 base, 11 on elite) and how the quest should be made easier.


You do understand that i'm posting in the new player advise section.
What you say and what some of the others said isn't advice....it's just flaming someone who is new to the game instead of giving advice.
You have nothing helpful to say then don't post and move along.

The world will do fine with out these couple of words you just said.
Then again i have to thank those who answered in a helpful manner rather then just pointing out how incompetent i'm for daring to question the design of a quest.

Coyopa
08-25-2015, 08:57 AM
Yah i get the idea.
I used a +5 search item and have nothing that give +int because i didn't think that i would need one.

+1 from voice of the master and +2 hero pots and that's all i can remember.
Fact is it's frustrating because it's a waste of time and frankly it's useless.
I hate this quest any way i was doing it for favor.

Also i did search the auction house for a +7 or more search but coudn't find more than the +5 that i have.

when i join a guild i will do it with guild mates.


You do understand that i'm posting in the new player advise section.
What you say and what some of the others said isn't advice....it's just flaming someone who is new to the game instead of giving advice.
You have nothing helpful to say then don't post and move along.

The world will do fine with out these couple of words you just said.
Then again i have to thank those who answered in a helpful manner rather then just pointing out how incompetent i'm for daring to question the design of a quest.

First, just because you're posting in the New Player Advice forum doesn't mean you're actually new to the game. I've posted new threads in here, even though I'd already been playing the game for 3 years or more. Second, the first of your posts that I have quoted here indicates that you've been around long enough to have done this quest at least once (because you state you hate the quest) and that you're relatively high level on the character you were trying to run this on (because you state you were doing this for favor only). I find it unlikely that you're anywhere near the level of the quest on elite since you said in another post (not quoted here) that the traps and mobs really didn't pose a serious threat to you (I'm paraphrasing). Given all of that, I find it hard to believe you were unaware of True Seeing or Detect Secret Doors items. Finally, you didn't really ask for help in your original post. You just came on the forums to complain about how requiring the ability to find a secret door to complete a quest is "bad design". If you'd actually said, in your original post, something like "I encountered a secret door that prevented me from completing a quest. I have 9 Search, which clearly isn't high enough. What else can I try that will enable me to find the door?", then I would have been happy to volunteer some information (and I also wouldn't have posted my most recent previous post to which you took exception). When you need help, asking for help typically gets you the most help in the shortest time; whereas complaining and not asking for help will get you a few offers of help and a healthy dose of snarky responses - which you've discovered by creating this thread. Hopefully, you'll remember this in the future. People here are happy to help anyone who asks for it. You simply didn't ask.

Impaqt
08-25-2015, 09:12 AM
I just went into the Church and the cult on Elite on my l10 Cleric.

The secret door's DC is 10.

Shavron
08-25-2015, 09:27 AM
I think you are right on this.

I should just have asked the question but i guess i was frustrated with these quests.

Than again i still think that this type of quests isn't good.