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jellyfish21
08-20-2015, 06:58 PM
I feel that a sorcerer is a flavor class, not one made for maximizing a class. This is because of the core class structure. The core class structure of a wizard out matches a sorcerer in every way. This is because of the bonus feats, access to every arcane spell and the INT skill, spell craft.

Most people explain the power of a sorcerer is based upon the increased caster level features in their enhancement lines. Well, the wizard epic destiny includes an increased caster level and maximum caster level. This destiny is on the Fifth tier, unable to be twisted. In the sorcerer epic destiny, this is found below on a tier that can be twisted.

Still, the base class structure of a sorcerer is for flavor alone. This has never been addressed nor will it ever be. The flavor solely comes from their Bluff skill. The role play using the bluff skill is very powerful. This power never has influenced the sorcerer's spells.

Developers will not change this flaw. The forum community will give hate toward any fix for this flaw.

I have pushed for a change in the base structure of the sorcerer class, pushed it for years now. It takes a little imagination and a lot of guts.

I am complaining, yes. Part of the forums is to speak your mind about disappointments. Just recently, my main character's life was a sorcerer, to see how it played. I was very disappointed. I planned to use that build to do epic TR'ing. I decided not to after character level 22 because of the disappointments. All of the disappointment came from the base structure of the sorcerer class. There is no uniqueness and even less quality compared to the sorcerer's counter part.

As I said, just use your imagination, as D&D was meant to have. Imagination is the most important quality of D&D. Without it, we have lost all hope. But, we still have some imagination left in us for sorcerers. Its unbelievable in my mind as to the stories I can make about a sorcerer. You can, too !!

JOTMON
08-20-2015, 07:03 PM
Sorc's are in no way outmatched by Wizards on a overall comparison.

Elemental power is a massive destructive force.
DC's are easily workable.
Get into the EE content where wiz insta-kills become ineffective due to Epic guards and Sorc just plows through.

Enderoc
08-20-2015, 08:43 PM
I wonder what two levels of warlock with 18 sorcerer would look like if it is specced for Acid or fire damage? It would have pretty decent UMD if nothing else.

Wizza
08-21-2015, 03:06 AM
Not sure if trolling or...

Eth
08-21-2015, 04:20 AM
Most people explain the power of a sorcerer is based upon the increased caster level features in their enhancement lines.
Yes, MCL increase is very strong.
You seem to simply forget a couple more (important) things when comparing wizards and sorcerers though...
- Sorcs cast spells faster
- Sorcs have shorter cooldowns
- Sorcs can cast more spells due to more SP



Well, the wizard epic destiny includes an increased caster level and maximum caster level. This destiny is on the Fifth tier, unable to be twisted. In the sorcerer epic destiny, this is found below on a tier that can be twisted.

Destinies are not tied to classes. This whole paragraph is complete nonsense.
You seem to imply that wizards can make up for "the only thing that sorcs got going for them", which is the MCL increase (again, which is nonsense, sorcs get more than just that, see above), by taking Tier 5 Master of Evocation.

- A sorc can run in Magister.
- If you run in Magister and twist Draconic Spell Knowledge you lock yourself out of better twists like energy burst or empyrian magic. Who does that?
- Magister is bad.
- A wizard can run in Draconic.

Tom116
08-21-2015, 08:31 AM
Wizards are sorcerers are not the same. Wiz get access to better DC's in general, so they're instakills/CC are usually better than a sorc. On the other hand, sorcerers get more spellpower, more spell points, faster casting, shorter cooldowns, and more caster level increases so they are better at damage casting :)

A class with both would be too OP *cough* warlock *cough*. To be fair enough, sorcerers do more damage than Warlock until sorc's run of out sp, which doesn't happen much as long as you keep an eye on your blue bar

PentegarnDarras
08-21-2015, 09:20 AM
...that is all.

Enoach
08-21-2015, 09:47 AM
While I also enjoy being a wizard more than a sorcerer (I've done 3 lives of each with two sorcerer lives when epic level cap was 25 and 28)

What I enjoy more about the wizard is the flexibility to adjust spells (a feature that is often forgotten). I do sacrifice elemental power but gain the ability to have the best spells for the situation.

I think much like players playing a Paladin like a fighter, people that try to play a sorcerer like they play a wizard will be disappointed.

I see you mention the Bluff skill in your comments. This is actually is one of the many abilities I think a good portion of the population ignores because they don't understand it. For a sorcerer Bluff plays two rolls. 1) Defensive - Because Sorcerer's tend to hit hard this ability gives a way to reduce the perceived amount of damage (lower hate) This is good for getting hard hitting mobs to ignore you for others in your group - I find it best as a pre-apply ability. 2) A way to pull individual mobs. This can mean pulling stuff away so that you can kill it without being damaged by all his friends.

I think if you approach a sorcerer as a Nuke utilizing the Spell Point pool as well as the many SLA abilities for the Savant and cycling.

Now the EDs that I actually had the most fun playing as a Sorcerer - Draconic (more a duh hehehe), Sharidi Champion and Exalted Angel (self healing options even better now with the mass healing)

FranOhmsford
08-21-2015, 10:26 AM
Destinies are not tied to classes. This whole paragraph is complete nonsense.
You seem to imply that wizards can make up for "the only thing that sorcs got going for them", which is the MCL increase (again, which is nonsense, sorcs get more than just that, see above), by taking Tier 5 Master of Evocation.

- A sorc can run in Magister.
- If you run in Magister and twist Draconic Spell Knowledge you lock yourself out of better twists like energy burst or empyrian magic. Who does that?
- Magister is bad.
- A wizard can run in Draconic.

This ^

Magister is an atrociously bad destiny!

Draconic isn't good either!

But Draconic is a better all round destiny than Magister {Magister is for one-trick pony DC Specced Wizards only!}.



P.S. WF Sorc outperforms Pale Master in every way!
WF EK and AM are also better choices than Fleshy Wiz/Sorc!

Wizard is in a far worse place than Sorc at the moment!

And we still have the problem of WF/BF being so insanely OP when compared to Fleshies on Arcane Classes!