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Allorian
07-25-2015, 08:54 AM
Funny thing is I saw a post that is almost the same as I have been thinking the last few days, why not make lvl 29 & 30 Mythic lvls instead of epic lvls. The field is wide open, we could have a mythic enhancement tree that allows us to endow weapons, items with greater power. Endow a weapon or item with sentience, kind of take your favorite item or weapon and customize the intelligence and abilities it will posses. Mythic lvls would also have their own Xp, possibly have a mythic TR, lets you start back at lvl 28, after x amount of Tr's you gain points to put into that sentient item, improving it. If you did not want to have a sentient itme and improve it, you could use those point to gain Mythic feats, such as wearing 2 magic items in the same slot, or something of the like. Maybe even and/or gain more ED feats that you would have access to. In this sense ETR's & ITR's would stay at lvl 28, with MTR at lvl 30, everything else is would remain the same. To be fair Mythic xp would need to be substantial between lvls to make something like this work, maybe 3 or so million between lvls, maybe less, maybe more.

Another thin that could be added is the ability to upgrade min Lvl 28 loot to mythic, maybe with a mythic seal that drops from raids in endgame content. The difficulty they would drop in is a debate, but with the Mythic Seal you could upgrade any piece of raid gear from Lvl 28 raids & above to mythic. This would give the player a choice of what he /she wants to upgrade instead of just chasing and hoping for that particular mythic item. Please understand that I would think that the seal would be an extremely rare drop in a raid, but well worth the wait.

I guess the only question I have left is what does everyone think about this idea? You comments both good and bad are welcome.



Thx Guys
Glam

esojiul
07-25-2015, 02:48 PM
Funny thing is I saw a post that is almost the same as I have been thinking the last few days, why not make lvl 29 & 30 Mythic lvls instead of epic lvls. The field is wide open, we could have a mythic enhancement tree that allows us to endow weapons, items with greater power. Endow a weapon or item with sentience, kind of take your favorite item or weapon and customize the intelligence and abilities it will posses. Mythic lvls would also have their own Xp, possibly have a mythic TR, lets you start back at lvl 28, after x amount of Tr's you gain points to put into that sentient item, improving it. If you did not want to have a sentient itme and improve it, you could use those point to gain Mythic feats, such as wearing 2 magic items in the same slot, or something of the like. Maybe even and/or gain more ED feats that you would have access to. In this sense ETR's & ITR's would stay at lvl 28, with MTR at lvl 30, everything else is would remain the same. To be fair Mythic xp would need to be substantial between lvls to make something like this work, maybe 3 or so million between lvls, maybe less, maybe more.

Another thin that could be added is the ability to upgrade min Lvl 28 loot to mythic, maybe with a mythic seal that drops from raids in endgame content. The difficulty they would drop in is a debate, but with the Mythic Seal you could upgrade any piece of raid gear from Lvl 28 raids & above to mythic. This would give the player a choice of what he /she wants to upgrade instead of just chasing and hoping for that particular mythic item. Please understand that I would think that the seal would be an extremely rare drop in a raid, but well worth the wait.

I guess the only question I have left is what does everyone think about this idea? You comments both good and bad are welcome.



Thx Guys
Glam

I agree 100% with you. these are some of my ideas


Start dealing with lag

1) Mythic Level: Most of ht epic quest are from different level goes from 21-27. We need all the epic contest are por cap player, my suggestion is to create a Mythical level, and a lot to improve the epic gear to Mythical loot.
2) Created standards values for Mythical loot, it crazy each new chain. Turn obsolete the previous loot for other content

3) Balance classes:
I have run a Montecarlo simulation, 210 ppr is equal in amount of dmg receive from to 71% dodge (using 1500data) . That the extreme of the values. Based on these my suggestion:

:

1. rogue Dodge max70%
2. Monks- Dodge max70%
4. Sorceress- evoke dc has to increase to make the class effective: Add to each core ability +2 dc evoke and +4dc evoke went it cap. Also change Fortitude save (DC: 10 + Constitution Modifier + Sorcerer Level) for Fortitude save (DC: 10 + charisma Modifier + Sorcerer Level) in tier 5 spells
5. Artificer: include a enhancement similar to rogue mechanical enhancement: Battle engineer add (runearm: dc 20+int+artificer level+ other evoker mod and for dmg: rune arm use 100 of the metamagic), arcanotecnical: Add to each core ability +2 dc evoke and +4dc evoke went it cap
6. Wizard: Critical Multiplier 20% con cap
7. Cleric- 40 positive
8. Druid: more shapes air and earth form
9. Fighter kensai dodge max 70% and include in core ability at lv 18: stun blow and trip (DC = 10 + half character levels + str mod + other modifiers).
10. Ranger: dodge max 70%
11. Bard-ok dodge max40%
12. Paladin –ok
13. Barbarian –ok
14. Warlock - ok

4) Free to play: The game has to have minimal 10 F2P quest in each level.

5) More option:

Neverwinter has the Foundry; i think Doo can develop a different approach:
a) New business unit: DDO has a platform bases on 3.5 (the best). It can prelaunch titles TOEE, EYE BEHOLDER etc etc and create new one (not FREE even for VIP). That is not part of the MMO. , Will be video game (safe the progress etc etc). Go from lv 1-10, where new player learn how to play the game. At level 10 the toon can be transfer to the mmo.
b) Create a software can help player Personalize toon (new faces , shape sizes etc etc), also armor etc etc. For xx usd, the changes are introduced on the updates.

Lonnbeimnech
07-25-2015, 03:02 PM
Have we given up on the pretext that this game is based on dnd?

esojiul
07-25-2015, 08:24 PM
Have we given up on the pretext that this game is based on dnd?

No, but DDO is like anyother product, In bussines to extent the life of a product has to reinvented. Even D&D paper in on it 5 version.

Gljosh
07-25-2015, 09:35 PM
To be honest one of the worst things that can happen is levels 29 and 30. We don't have any quests that require another 2 levels of power. The players have been outclassing the most of game since we hit level cap 25 (once 28 came out we outclassed the rest of the game) adding more levels will not make more people join or stay in the game. People are already beating the level 30 quests on Elite with level 28 characters. The veterans are getting bored and those of us that like the hamster wheel don't want a larger wheel with no gain.

esojiul
07-25-2015, 09:52 PM
To be honest one of the worst things that can happen is levels 29 and 30. We don't have any quests that require another 2 levels of power. The players have been outclassing the most of game since we hit level cap 25 (once 28 came out we outclassed the rest of the game) adding more levels will not make more people join or stay in the game. People are already beating the level 30 quests on Elite with level 28 characters. The veterans are getting bored and those of us that like the hamster wheel don't want a larger wheel with no gain.

Yep you are right, that why i agree with the idea of a mythical level

psykopeta
07-26-2015, 04:23 AM
No, but DDO is like anyother product, In bussines to extent the life of a product has to reinvented. Even D&D paper in on it 5 version.

you are right, in business you should aim to certain type of consumers, in the caso of ddo leaving d&d and getting closer each time to WoW, EQ and others is like building a Mini and once released try to make it a Ferrari

Simply won't happen, won't attract Ferrari users cause it's much lower quality, and will lose original Mini users cause it went away of the original version

and that's why ddo has been dying til now, more than boring endgame, crappy performance, is the fact that every change they do, it's getting further from DDO and it gets closer to the bottom of any other mmorpg you can find out there


btw DDO has commoner lvls, not epic lvls

Gljosh
07-26-2015, 08:53 AM
So would a new class of quests be created or would level 29 and 30 quests be considered Mythic? If you did any quest at or above 29 that would leave 21 quests (that includes the level 27 and 28s being run on hard or elite). If you went just base level or higher than that leaves just 14 quests, most of which are already out and current =ly can be beaten (sometimes soloed) on Epic Elite (31 to 32). So again that would make the power gamers even stronger that would make the game "easier" for them (a near constant complaint). Now adding the over leveling penalty into 29 and 30 would spice things up but than lower level epic Raids could suffer.

Lonnbeimnech
07-26-2015, 09:01 AM
The idea is sound, your response.. well not so much,,,


How will level 29-30 and Epic destinies work, they are already defined..
if they are added as epic levels, XP curve has to be dealt with, impact on ER's, will there be more destiny tree points, options to level a 2nd tree, more fate points..
These are all issues players will expect if these are added as Epic levels..

There is no rule that says 29-30 have to be Epic levels... so the can be Mythic or Reaper.. or whatever...
by divorcing levels 29-30 from Epic you break the need to deal with how these levels and current Epic levels will play nice together.

Such as XP issues doing ER's, Epic can remain 21-28 and the XP earned for 29-30 can remain separate by adding a Mythic XP component
Overlevel questing.. break the cycle of hamsterwheel farming spies/wizking/von3/5 (and others) to cap...
Separate Mythic XP tht only comes from core quests that are min level 28+
XP penalty level 29-30's that run Epic content.. at some point the big kids shouldn't be playing in the public school play yard with the little kids.

Do we really want Level 30 Epic Destinies on level 20 ER's... capped epic destinies at level 20 are already OP.
Mythic level 29-30 can offer bonuses that only apply when level 29-30 for people doing ER's.. this will help stop the growth of OP'ness of Epic destinies in Epic content across the board.

Would be nice to see what the intent is for 29-30 from the Dev side before they really are past the point of no return for implementation..

The pnp rules are that 1-20 are heroic levels and 21-30 are epic levels.

There is no such thing as mythic, unless you look at pathfinder, and in pathfinder a character is mythic if he is a major influence in the storyline (guided by fate or a god or whatever), nothing to do with his level.

esojiul
07-27-2015, 02:04 PM
The pnp rules are that 1-20 are heroic levels and 21-30 are epic levels.

There is no such thing as mythic, unless you look at pathfinder, and in pathfinder a character is mythic if he is a major influence in the storyline (guided by fate or a god or whatever), nothing to do with his level.

Neverwinter has 70 levels

Allorian
08-01-2015, 07:58 PM
The pnp rules are that 1-20 are heroic levels and 21-30 are epic levels.

There is no such thing as mythic, unless you look at pathfinder, and in pathfinder a character is mythic if he is a major influence in the storyline (guided by fate or a god or whatever), nothing to do with his level.

Well, my reply to that is DDO is loosely based on DND PNP. We left DND rules long ago as this is a video game, When I started playing 7 some years age I had a learning curve to overcome. Keep in mind that I have enjoyed DND in PNP long before DDO, it is related just not the same animal.

Another thing I was thinking about was having quests level specific for 28 - 30. There would be a level restriction of 28th & above, similar to what epic quests have at 20 min level. Whether they were named Mythic or Reaper or whatever it would give that degree of separation between 20-28 and 28-30. Older quests could be updated for this difficulty as well, I would prefer to see possibly the evening star quests updated 1st as they could use a face lift, especially with the loot system. It may also bring back the popularity of these quests as well. Not that they are not run at all, but they are not the XP grind that VON III, V & VI, Wiz king, Spies etc...are. After that probably sands including because except for Wiz King and DQ are not run much. It would serve to breath new life into these quests as well.

So far there are people who like the original idea of mythic and some who don't. If there is enough interest, toward the end of this thread I'll conduct a Poll for and against along with Pro's and Cons of the idea.



Thx Guys
Glam

Allorian
08-01-2015, 08:14 PM
So would a new class of quests be created or would level 29 and 30 quests be considered Mythic? If you did any quest at or above 29 that would leave 21 quests (that includes the level 27 and 28s being run on hard or elite). If you went just base level or higher than that leaves just 14 quests, most of which are already out and current =ly can be beaten (sometimes soloed) on Epic Elite (31 to 32). So again that would make the power gamers even stronger that would make the game "easier" for them (a near constant complaint). Now adding the over leveling penalty into 29 and 30 would spice things up but than lower level epic Raids could suffer.

Those are some good questions, I think if old quest were updated to allow a Mythic level, clicker similar to Heroic and Epic, possibly putting Normal, Hard and elite in that category with a Mythic quest, could be the answer along with some new content that could have all three - Heroic, Epic and Mythic content designed to increase the DDO experience. With enough brainstorming some really good ideas and possibly answers could surface. This is the Suggestions and ideas section of the forums, please guys, lets put some ideas into this. I'm sure that if we all put our heads together, we can come up with some thing really solid.

I do like the idea of over leveling, maybe that could be built upon.

Thx Guys
Glam

FranOhmsford
08-01-2015, 09:17 PM
Well, my reply to that is DDO is loosely based on DND PNP. We left DND rules long ago as this is a video game, When I started playing 7 some years age I had a learning curve to overcome. Keep in mind that I have enjoyed DND in PNP long before DDO, it is related just not the same animal.

Another thing I was thinking about was having quests level specific for 28 - 30. There would be a level restriction of 28th & above, similar to what epic quests have at 20 min level. Whether they were named Mythic or Reaper or whatever it would give that degree of separation between 20-28 and 28-30. Older quests could be updated for this difficulty as well, I would prefer to see possibly the evening star quests updated 1st as they could use a face lift, especially with the loot system. It may also bring back the popularity of these quests as well. Not that they are not run at all, but they are not the XP grind that VON III, V & VI, Wiz king, Spies etc...are. After that probably sands including because except for Wiz King and DQ are not run much. It would serve to breath new life into these quests as well.

So far there are people who like the original idea of mythic and some who don't. If there is enough interest, toward the end of this thread I'll conduct a Poll for and against along with Pro's and Cons of the idea.



Thx Guys
Glam

You forgot OoB - That gets run pretty often as part of an EN Daily grind.

And there are people out there who will still run EN Chains too {Not many I'll give you but that's another 100k+ xp!}.

I don't see all that many E-ADQ1 runs though.


My main issue with making Lvl 29 Mythic is that we already have Base Lvl 30 Epic Quests and Mythic should be the actual End-Game i.e. Must be Lvl 30 to enter and the Quests are minimum base Lvl 35! {possibly even 40!}.

Allorian
08-04-2015, 07:59 AM
You forgot OoB - That gets run pretty often as part of an EN Daily grind.

And there are people out there who will still run EN Chains too {Not many I'll give you but that's another 100k+ xp!}.

I don't see all that many E-ADQ1 runs though.


My main issue with making Lvl 29 Mythic is that we already have Base Lvl 30 Epic Quests and Mythic should be the actual End-Game i.e. Must be Lvl 30 to enter and the Quests are minimum base Lvl 35! {possibly even 40!}.

So you would rather see Mythic, Reaper or Legendary or whatever it is called at 30th Level for end game. I do see the possibilities in that as well, gotta be level capped to get in similar to old epics when the level cap was 2oth. Not a bad idea!