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Ipho
07-16-2015, 05:48 AM
OK. I've done some research but there's little information on the internet about most things in DDO.

I believe there are some in-game items/bonuses/rewards that every can benefit from. Such as tomes, inventory spaces, Hearts of Wood...

The content is overwhelming and pretty much nothing's easy to find. So I'm thinking, if there were a thread telling people what's important or useful, and how they can be acquired, it would be a blessing. (For the dazed & confused like me)

I remember there was a free lesser heart of wood sometime ago, don't know if it's not in the game anymore.

And for bags, I guess you need Collapsed Portable hole, and 150 Coin Lords favor to turn it into inventory space for a fee. But is there a quest that grants a hole, for instance?

I'd appreciate any info :) Thanks for your time folks, and happy huntin'!

Skavenaps
07-16-2015, 06:05 AM
OK. I've done some research but there's little information on the internet about most things in DDO.

I believe there are some in-game items/bonuses/rewards that every can benefit from. Such as tomes, inventory spaces, Hearts of Wood...

The content is overwhelming and pretty much nothing's easy to find. So I'm thinking, if there were a thread telling people what's important or useful, and how they can be acquired, it would be a blessing. (For the dazed & confused like me)

I remember there was a free lesser heart of wood sometime ago, don't know if it's not in the game anymore.

And for bags, I guess you need Collapsed Portable hole, and 150 Coin Lords favor to turn it into inventory space for a fee. But is there a quest that grants a hole, for instance?

I'd appreciate any info :) Thanks for your time folks, and happy huntin'!

http://ddowiki.com/

Tom116
07-16-2015, 07:06 AM
OK. I've done some research but there's little information on the internet about most things in DDO.

I believe there are some in-game items/bonuses/rewards that every can benefit from. Such as tomes, inventory spaces, Hearts of Wood...

The content is overwhelming and pretty much nothing's easy to find. So I'm thinking, if there were a thread telling people what's important or useful, and how they can be acquired, it would be a blessing. (For the dazed & confused like me)

I remember there was a free lesser heart of wood sometime ago, don't know if it's not in the game anymore.

And for bags, I guess you need Collapsed Portable hole, and 150 Coin Lords favor to turn it into inventory space for a fee. But is there a quest that grants a hole, for instance?

I'd appreciate any info :) Thanks for your time folks, and happy huntin'!

DDO Wiki is a great source of info, and just playing over time and asking questions helps too :)

Also, there IS a way to get a free Portable Hole. Not a quest per se, but earning 75 Agents of Argonnessen favor gives you a choice of a few items, Portable Hole being one of the options. It's what I pick to get the inventory slot whenever I don't find one on the chest :)

Fedora1
07-16-2015, 07:18 AM
One item most people desire is Voice of the Master (http://ddowiki.com/page/Voice_of_the_Master). You get it as one of your end-reward choices for completing the Delera's Tomb story arc (http://ddowiki.com/page/Delera%27s_Tomb). This is a Pay-to-play quest series.

http://ddowiki.com/images/Voice_of_the_Master.png

FranOhmsford
07-16-2015, 07:58 AM
One item most people desire is Voice of the Master (http://ddowiki.com/page/Voice_of_the_Master). You get it as one of your end-reward choices for completing the Delera's Tomb story arc (http://ddowiki.com/page/Delera%27s_Tomb). This is a Pay-to-play quest series.

http://ddowiki.com/images/Voice_of_the_Master.png

A guaranteed End Reward - It's there every single time!

And in my opinion this item is vastly over-rated and no longer necessary - It's a swap in for the end of quests at best {If you remember!} and does little other than take up a valuable inventory slot.


For Collapsed Portable Holes - It's already been said but 75 Agents of Argo {about 4-5 quests in Gianthold} gives you a free Hole or a Flawless Sibery Shard which will sell for between 200-300k on the AH every life.
The other rewards are all newbie traps - Only the Hole and the Flawless Sib are worth having!


If you're VIP you don't have to worry about quests but just in case I'll reiterate the big 6 packs {in my opinion}:
Menace of the Underdark Expansion - Must Have!
Gianthold
Necro IV
Sands of Menechtarun
Vale of Twilight
Vault of Night

The Shadowfell expansion is also useful but not a necessity.
3 Barrel Cove now has some of the best low level loot in the game and some very good, very easy to acquire Epic loot too - As an Epic Pack it's pretty strong.


Another Must buy if you're not VIP is Epic Destinies - Can be got as part of the Menace of the Underdark Expansion.

And I find Shared Bank to also be a must! {two character bank pages can be got by running House K to 150 Favour and speaking to the Favour NPC outside the Bank in House K and paying about 10k plat total when you open your bank.}.



Tomes now go up to +7s and +3s were given out virtually free and in droves early last year so Epic Elite content pretty much demands at least +3s. {They're still very difficult to find in-game however outside of Events.}.



As you're a returning player you may already have Greensteel which is still heavily utilised through high level Heroics but when you hit 20 you want to be able to run Eveningstar/King's Forest content to get the Commendations for Min Lvl 20 Epic gear that is at least equal to and far easier to get than much of the old Epic Seal/Shard/Scroll gear.
There is still some S/S/S Gear that is highly desirable but it's so hard to get that you may as well skip past it using the extremely commonplace EN Daily runs of VoN 3/4, Wiz King and Spies in the House {that's 4-500k per day xp right there!} to higher level packs that give out far better alternatives.

Xyy
07-16-2015, 08:32 AM
Epic Elite content pretty much demands at least +3s.

What if I have a stat that only has +2, can I still do epic elite? Your comment on Argo favor reward is a bit off. While less valuable, I think you'd get a lot of flack if you started a thread called 'Remove newbie traps from Argo rewards'. I applaud your efforts to help and am ashamed I have nothing to offer other than: Find a good guild and you'll have most of the resources you need. Most high level guilds are not elitist, a large and active, and are open to newer/returning players. Just web search or send a polite tell (not in quest, not running somewhere, just standing around, etc.) and ask about recruitment.

FranOhmsford
07-16-2015, 08:41 AM
What if I have a stat that only has +2, can I still do epic elite? Your comment on Argo favor reward is a bit off. While less valuable, I think you'd get a lot of flack if you started a thread called 'Remove newbie traps from Argo rewards'. I applaud your efforts to help and am ashamed I have nothing to offer other than: Find a good guild and you'll have most of the resources you need. Most high level guilds are not elitist, a large and active, and are open to newer/returning players. Just web search or send a polite tell (not in quest, not running somewhere, just standing around, etc.) and ask about recruitment.

Note I said "pretty much" - This was not an absolute statement and player skill, past lives, other gear etc. can come into it.

But in my personal experience +3s are not even enough for me to be capable in EEs! I thought about adding {possibly even +4s} but didn't because I figured someone would say they could do EEs with no tomes anyway.

If you're that good at the game then all power to you but I still feel that a newbie should be told that a certain level of Tomes is very much required to play the hardest content!
And note I also didn't say +7s are required though more and more I'm seeing stat, skill and DC requirements that assume this level of tome.


Heck I'm still annoyed at the ludicrously high stat/skill requirements to get a rare in Epic High Road Slayer {The heroic requirements are bad too!}.



As for Argo Favour rewards:
Even if you actually do at that point in time need an Exceptional Shard:
1) You may find you have enough Sibery Frags, Flawed, Imperfect and Sibery Shards to make yourself a single Exceptional anyway so long as you haven't been vendor trashing the frags.
Flawless require 10x as much so are much more valuable!
and
2) Why would you pick up an Exceptional Sibery Shard that you'll be lucky to sell on the AH for 50k plat when you can pick up the Flawless, sell it for 300k and use some of those proceeds to buy yourself an Exceptional?

Dragon's Blood is worthless to most players and frankly even if you do want to swap a spell out you may as well just pay the tiny amount of plat required.

Hazelnut
07-16-2015, 09:15 AM
OK. I've done some research but there's little information on the internet about most things in DDO.

I believe there are some in-game items/bonuses/rewards that every can benefit from. Such as tomes, inventory spaces, Hearts of Wood...

The content is overwhelming and pretty much nothing's easy to find. So I'm thinking, if there were a thread telling people what's important or useful, and how they can be acquired, it would be a blessing. (For the dazed & confused like me)

I remember there was a free lesser heart of wood sometime ago, don't know if it's not in the game anymore.

And for bags, I guess you need Collapsed Portable hole, and 150 Coin Lords favor to turn it into inventory space for a fee. But is there a quest that grants a hole, for instance?

I'd appreciate any info :) Thanks for your time folks, and happy huntin'!

I am pretty much repeating what other people have said, but here is my take on things:

Things you should know:

http://www.ddowiki.com/ has all the details you will need about the game.
Your first character will not be optimal. You should be prepared (and willing) to make a second character (or delete/start-over your first character).
DDO is a fun game and it is worth spending some money on the game (subject to your budget) but is not necessary.
If you can't (or don't want to) spend money on DDO, you want to save your earned Turbine Points for very specific purchases: quest packs. In my opinion you should save up for Gianthold and Vale of Twilight first because these do a decent job of filling in thin parts of the F2P quests and also offer epic level content. Plus, they are both pretty fun packs. Wait for sales before you purchase.
There are 2 different places you pay for things for DDO (and there is a bit of overlap). The DDO Store is in-game and you spend Turbine Points (which you can earn in-game) and there is the DDO Market where you use your credit card (which is online). You can buy Turbine Points in the DDO Market, you buy expansions in the Market.
When "double bonus days" arrive, it is double bonus turbine points for buying turbine points (not double what you buy). This only applies to points you purchase through the DDO Store (not the DDO Market). Make sure you buy in the right place.


Stuff you should try to earn:

Coin Lords Favour - for character backpack space. The first one is free, after that you need a portable hole.
House Kundarak Favour - for bank space. Each extra tab costs some platinum but you should have it by the time you can earn the favour.
+1 Skill Tome from Pirates of the Thunder Sea Saga. I'm partial to the +1 Spot tome but there are other choices.
Argonessan Favour - to get a portable hole (if you need one for the backpack slot).
+1 Skill Tome from Wastes of Gianthold Saga. Either if you didn't do the earlier saga or for Rogues/Artificers who want both the Disable Device and Spot tomes.
House Deneith Favour - for large quivers (holds about 3000 arrows/bolts). Mostly only needed if you are ranged and not a Ranger or Artificer (since they both have conjure ammo abilities). Also handy to store ammunition that you pick up from chests.


Stuff you should spend money on (if you have it in your budget):

VIP - this is US$15 per month if you pay monthly. That is pretty standard for a game subscription. If you can pay yearly, it's US$100 per year (or around $6 per month). This means you don't have to buy quest packs, you can open on elite, you have a shared bank to pass Bound-to-Account items between characters on the same server, you get a stipends of a some Turbine Points each month to spend on whatever you want and a bunch of other things.
Expansions - Shadowfell and Menace of the Underdark. They are fun and full of Epic level content to get to level 28. Wait for a sale. They happen periodically, often in late November.
Quest Packs - if you don't have VIP.
Shared bank - if you don't have VIP and you do have multiple characters.


Stuff you should NOT spend money on:

Weapons and armour - the items available in the DDO Store are entry level at best an not as good as what you will have by the time you get through Korthos Island (the new player tutorial area).

I believe most of the rest of the stuff in the DDO store is more subjective and budget dependent. You don't need any of it (except quest packs if you aren't VIP) but you might like it and/or find some of it useful.

Kasiddy
07-16-2015, 09:38 AM
I'd appreciate any info :) Thanks for your time folks, and happy huntin'!
DDO wiki has decent information (sometimes outdated, though) once you know what you need to know more about.


Inventory:
Obtain 75 Coin Lord favor for 20 extra free inventory slots.
Obtain 150 Coin Lord favor for an additional 20 inventory slots (if you have a collapsed portable hole or 6 astral shards).
Obtain 75 Agents of Argonnessen Favor for a collapsed portable hole (among other reward choices).

Bank Space:
Get an extra bank tab at 75 House K favor (and 2000 plat)
and another bank tab at 150 House K favor (and 8000 plat)
Shared bank is available from the DDO Store and is arguably the best quality-of-life investment you can make.

Thieves Tools:
If I were a new player I'd find it very difficult to stock up on +5s with the going market rates.
You can get cheap +4 tools with 150 Free Agent Favor.
Once you have a character in level 16+ content keeping a supply of good tools usually isn't an issue.

Bells of Opening:
I can't think of a single chest or locked door in heroic content that is worth spending a bell on.

Feat Resets:
You can change feats with Fred the Mindflayer.
Fred is usually found beneath the gardens in the northern area of House J.
Fees depend on character level.

Must Haves:
(Ok, nice-to-haves. Any must-have could be debated.)
Goggles of the Flesh Render Guards from Tangleroot end reward is one of the very few Death Ward clickies in the game.
Voice of the Master/Mantle of the Worldshaper. Together give true seeing. Separately give bonus xp and (for the cloak) absorb harmful spells. The Voice is always available as a reward from Deleras Chain. The Mantle is always a reward from Threnal chain.
Kundarak Delving Boots from Vault of Night Raid - iirc the only heroic item in the game that gives you freedom of movement.
Muckbane or Everbright. Muckbane is a club that frequently drops in the harbor quest Durk's Got a Secret. Everbright weapons are common lootgen. They can also be crafted. With either of these you can beat on oozes and rust monsters without the weapon taking damage.
Large Bags - Large Ingredient Bags are given by the 12 as a favor reward when you get 100 Favor. Other large bags can be traded for 150 Planar Shards which you can collect in The Subterrene (treasure bags from defeated mobs). Until then, you can make do with medium bags from the Emporium in House P.
Quivers - Available in the Hammer and Chain in the Harbor, or larger versions from House D with 75 favor. Why? Because bane, greater bane, slayer, and +5 elemental or holy ammunition actually sells decently well on the AH (on Khyber, anyway) and new players need the plat, unless they're the ones buying the ammunition... and in that case nevermind. Also allows you to just "loot all" from chests without your inventory filling up so fast.
Silver Flame Talisman - Upgrade a Silver Flame Nugget in the Orchard. You want the level 11 version that has 10 charges of Negative Energy Absorption that will help keep you from getting level drained against certain opponents. Also Deathblock.
Deathblock - Available on lots of things. Just get it.
Heavy Fortification - Avialable on lots of things. Just get it. One of the most convenient might be the Nightforge Gorget, a neck item with a yellow augment slot (where you might put a deathblock topaz...) that you get for turning in Adamantine Ore at the end of the Relic of a Sovereign Past quest. The adamantine plate armor, adamantine warhammer (for beating on golems), and adamantine stilleto (dagger for the knife-in-the-back types) are also not terrible choices for a new player in search of gear until they can get something more specialized.
+6 Stat Gear - Drop frequently at high levels with some other worthless effect attached that just pushes the minimum level higher. Can be acquired earlier and easier through crafting, often by asking nicely and supplying mats to a crafter.
+13/15 Skill Gear - Pure +15s are becoming hard to find in loot. +13s can be crafted, again often by just asking nicely.
Pots - Available lots of places. Just get some. Especially the curse pots. You will be expected to be able to remove your own curses. Pots are avialable for most everything that ails you in shops in the harbor, house K (also guild vendors in house K), and the tower of the 12. "Normal" curse pots and guild curse pots have different cooldown timers, and having a stack of each can come in handy in some situations. Pots also cure your wounds (Cure serious), remove poison, and protect you from elements (20 resist pots are avialable in the tower of the 12).
UMD - Available for a few skill points and your charisma modifier. Just get some. It is one of the most universally useful skills in the game. Because it is really nice for everyone to be able to cast their own true seeing from scrolls, use a raise scroll in an emergency, or get a fire shield up, among other things. New, first-life characters will be allowed a little slack. Once you TR you have little excuse....

That's mostly everything I try to make a point to have on my characters.

Xyy
07-16-2015, 09:48 AM
As for Argo Favour rewards:
Even if you actually do at that point in time need an Exceptional Shard:
1) You may find you have enough Sibery Frags, Flawed, Imperfect and Sibery Shards to make yourself a single Exceptional anyway so long as you haven't been vendor trashing the frags.
Flawless require 10x as much so are much more valuable!
and
2) Why would you pick up an Exceptional Sibery Shard that you'll be lucky to sell on the AH for 50k plat when you can pick up the Flawless, sell it for 300k and use some of those proceeds to buy yourself an Exceptional?

Dragon's Blood is worthless to most players and frankly even if you do want to swap a spell out you may as well just pay the tiny amount of plat required.
Hope not to derail this thread, but this is again not accurate. Collecting and crunching shards: an inventory and time sink nightmare. Portholes have been running 100k-300k on Thelanis since ASAH, Exceptional and Flawless running similar prices of 700k+ because most peeps don't want to collect/manage/crunch. Plus, what if you need an exceptional and there's not one on AH? And dragon's blood, well, how much does it cost to swap out 2+ spells if needed (such as after updates/patches). If anything, the ASAH has made item availability on AH a challenge and grabbing these other 'newbie traps' more meaningful.

Vellrad
07-16-2015, 09:52 AM
CSW pots
remove blindness pots
remove disiease pots
remove curse pots
haste pots
a way to restore party member from negative hp to 1hp (CLW wand/scroll or wand from catacombs)
lesser resto pots

That's IMO a bare minimum.

Xyy
07-16-2015, 10:04 AM
Nice write-up Kasiddy. UMD is quite valuable and most/all builds can get enough early in life for common things such as an MM shield and invis. The Bunny Hat cosmetic from the store is worth the price (if still BtA) since UMD change lag was fixed (unless effect removed from new ones). It provides a slot free bump of +3 UMD for scrolls/wands. If room on equip slots, a Persuasion item (cannith craftable) will do the same (non-stacking with Bunny Hat).

Lonnbeimnech
07-16-2015, 10:26 AM
Mkay, here's my list.

1. Don't worry about it.

FranOhmsford
07-16-2015, 10:28 AM
Hope not to derail this thread, but this is again not accurate. Collecting and crunching shards: an inventory and time sink nightmare. Portholes have been running 100k-300k on Thelanis since ASAH, Exceptional and Flawless running similar prices of 700k+ because most peeps don't want to collect/manage/crunch. Plus, what if you need an exceptional and there's not one on AH? And dragon's blood, well, how much does it cost to swap out 2+ spells if needed (such as after updates/patches). If anything, the ASAH has made item availability on AH a challenge and grabbing these other 'newbie traps' more meaningful.

Just because they're on th AH for 700k+ doesnt' mean they actually SELL for that!

On the other hand I've sold Flawless Sibs for 300k on multiple occasions on the AH - If I put them up for 500k they don't sell!

Exceptionals - Nope - Lucky to even sell for 50k!


Time Sink of crunching Sibs? Really? I move all mine to my crafter and each week it takes me maybe two minutes to crunch the whole lot down - I have more Flawless in my Character Bank on my Crafter than I'll ever use and certainly will never have any need to buy an Exceptional or lower!

Feat Swaps are pretty expensive plat wise even if you have the Shard - If you make one mistake you can use the FREE Feat Swap from Lockania in the Marketplace, If you make two well suck it up until you can TR {It's cheaper in the long run!}.

Spell Swaps? Seriously? How many Sorcs/Souls etc. ever need to swap out more than 1 spell every 3 days? Dragon's Blood is by far the weakest item on that list and nowhere did I say it should be removed, Heck leave it there as there's so few other places it can be got from - It's still a newbie trap though because it's so much less worthwhile than A Portable Hole or Flawless Sib and newbies who don't specifically need it at that time should not take it!


When you run Gianthold it's pretty unlikely you're doing so for Favour anyway - The other rewards {XP, Loot, Saga Renown} are the reasons people run this and the Favour is a bonus.
When you go to pick up that Favour it's highly unlikely you'll actually need Dragon's Blood or an Exceptional Sibery at that time whereas there's a very good chance that you'll want the Portable Hole {for this life or for the next} and the Flawless Shard is something that can be put in your bank in case it's needed in future OR sold on the AH for the Plat to buy stuff you actually need at that moment.

I stand by my statement completely!
Because when it comes to rewards a newbie trap is when something is placed on the list that is blatantly not as useful/valuable as another item on the list and is there only to give the illusion of choice and possibly catch out a newbie who doesn't realise what is useful/valuable and what isn't!



To all newbies - Don't sell your Sibery Fragments! Collect em up and crunch them down into the larger versions at the Stone of Change!
It takes a truly insane amount of this to get a Flawless but every other shard will be available to you given enough time - Sibery Frags are hardly rare in-game!

And Dragon's Blood is mainly utilised by vets who know exactly what spells they need at low levels and what spells become useless at higher levels - It's of minimal use unless you know when to use it and can be easily wasted!



To the Devs - Can we have something to do with Crunched Khyber Shards if we're not Casters please?
More Stone of Change Recipes maybe?

Enoach
07-16-2015, 10:28 AM
CSW pots
remove blindness pots
remove disiease pots
remove curse pots
haste pots
a way to restore party member from negative hp to 1hp (CLW wand/scroll or wand from catacombs)
lesser resto pots

That's IMO a bare minimum.

I agree with the above as a minimum. I especially like the throw in for a way to restore party member from negative hp - so many players totally miss this and there are different options to do this as all that is needed is a single positive HP to restore a person or at least get them started.

The only add in I have is a throwing/bow/xbow. While this is handy for hitting stuff that won't come down to melee range, its more for those ranged targets that open doors as well as breakables that you can't reach.

Everything else is extra and more tailored to the character.

I disagree with FranOhmsford on the Voice of the Master being overrated and taking up a valuable inventory slot. While 5% of all XP sources does not seem like a lot of XP, we still see people get upset over 10% of the Quest Base XP. Which is actually less in the grand scheme. Also missed is the +1 Luck bonus to Saves and Skill Checks. At lower levels that +1 can be the difference between making or not making that check. As for remembering, I know groups I lead I will call out usually before the end as well as before any major optional XP and many groups I'm in will do the same (even the PuGs). Yes, you will miss a few places but for the most part it can help you squeeze in a bit more XP.

FranOhmsford
07-16-2015, 10:34 AM
I disagree with FranOhmsford on the Voice of the Master being overrated and taking up a valuable inventory slot. While 5% of all XP sources does not seem like a lot of XP, we still see people get upset over 10% of the Quest Base XP. Which is actually less in the grand scheme. Also missed is the +1 Luck bonus to Saves and Skill Checks. At lower levels that +1 can be the difference between making or not making that check. As for remembering, I know groups I lead I will call out usually before the end as well as before any major optional XP and many groups I'm in will do the same (even the PuGs). Yes, you will miss a few places but for the most part it can help you squeeze in a bit more XP.

I've never cared about Flawless Bonus!

There's so much XP available in DDO now and I'm of the opinion that a newbie who levels up too fast is far more likely to leave the game than one who takes it slower!

Voice of the Master {and other sources of extra XP} are loved by those who want to level up fast but think of it as a bonus and most definitely NOT a necessity!

Heck - If you're like me it may be more of a negative than a bonus anyway - What use is that extra XP to me when it means I don't get any XP from another quest?

Enoach
07-16-2015, 10:58 AM
...
Time Sink of crunching Sibs? Really? I move all mine to my crafter and each week it takes me maybe two minutes to crunch the whole lot down - I have more Flawless in my Character Bank on my Crafter than I'll ever use and certainly will never have any need to buy an Exceptional or lower!

I also have a large collection of these material and while I would love to see the stone of change have the "How many times do I crunch" option, I can understand why someone does not want to hit a button 10x+ in a row to crunch a pile. I've used work breaks or times when I need something to do but don't have time to quest to do my crunching. But not everyone can do that, and the time they do get to play DDO they would rather be questing then playing the inventory game.



...
Feat Swaps are pretty expensive plat wise even if you have the Shard - If you make one mistake you can use the FREE Feat Swap from Lockania in the Marketplace, If you make two well suck it up until you can TR {It's cheaper in the long run!}.

I actually find the feat swaps not to be expensive (unless you go the astral shard route). Earning plat in game is not difficult and most people earn far more then the expense of the quest they are running. At higher levels the earning tends to increase. Admittedly for a low level first time player the amount may seem high as they rub their few coppers together but at that level a feat swap is not always the right way to fix a build problem.



...
Spell Swaps? Seriously? How many Sorcs/Souls etc. ever need to swap out more than 1 spell every 3 days? Dragon's Blood is by far the weakest item on that list and nowhere did I say it should be removed, Heck leave it there as there's so few other places it can be got from - It's still a newbie trap though because it's so much less worthwhile than A Portable Hole or Flawless Sib and newbies who don't specifically need it at that time should not take it!


...
And Dragon's Blood is mainly utilised by vets who know exactly what spells they need at low levels and what spells become useless at higher levels - It's of minimal use unless you know when to use it and can be easily wasted!

Dragon's Blood can be used by All classes that have spells that cannot switch them at a shrine; Bards, Favored Souls, Sorcerers and Warlocks. The advantage of the Dragon's Blood is that you have 30 minutes of free spell swaps. Now this is expensive way to switch a single spell. However, it is a very cheap way to completely change your spell list if you decide to change up your Enhancements such as going from a Fire Savant to Earth Savant at later levels. Dong so with 1 spell a day could take you weeks to do all the spell switching. If you are new to any of the above classes having 1 or 2 of these on hand to make major switches can help you feel less frustrated. Additionally there is no wait time on their use, so if you switch from Fire to Earth and then decide the next day you want to go Ice using the Dragon's Blood will allow you to do that.

I have found that most times when someone needs a feat swap it is more complex then switching a single feat and while the flawless is nice to have on hand for the simple feat exchange after they used the Free one every character has access to each life, I've found that I don't use these as much except to help guild members or even people I run into that made a less than desirable feat choice that can be fixed they mostly don't have a use. Now the portable holes are useful until you have one applied. Getting one for free with Argo favor as a guarantee option means not worrying every TR life about getting one.



...
When you run Gianthold it's pretty unlikely you're doing so for Favour anyway - The other rewards {XP, Loot, Saga Renown} are the reasons people run this and the Favour is a bonus.
When you go to pick up that Favour it's highly unlikely you'll actually need Dragon's Blood or an Exceptional Sibery at that time whereas there's a very good chance that you'll want the Portable Hole {for this life or for the next} and the Flawless Shard is something that can be put in your bank in case it's needed in future OR sold on the AH for the Plat to buy stuff you actually need at that moment.

Actually, a lot of the reason for me to run Gianthold is for the favor, as the second favor Tier is +10 HP. Now that does not seem like a lot in the grand scheme but it is more HP.



...
I stand by my statement completely!
Because when it comes to rewards a newbie trap is when something is placed on the list that is blatantly not as useful/valuable as another item on the list and is there only to give the illusion of choice and possibly catch out a newbie who doesn't realise what is useful/valuable and what isn't!

The useful/valuable is set by the person making the selection. If the item is something they need it will be more valuable to them. While a Fighter might find Dragon's Blood useless, the Sorcerer who started out as an Earth Savant may see this as the opportunity they were looking for to switch to being an Air Savant. The fighter might even find the Velah Cookies more valuable at the time knowing that the Fireshield cold will help him more in the Reaver's Reach quest line to survive the boss fight.

Enoach
07-16-2015, 11:06 AM
I've never cared about Flawless Bonus!

There's so much XP available in DDO now and I'm of the opinion that a newbie who levels up too fast is far more likely to leave the game than one who takes it slower!

Voice of the Master {and other sources of extra XP} are loved by those who want to level up fast but think of it as a bonus and most definitely NOT a necessity!

Heck - If you're like me it may be more of a negative than a bonus anyway - What use is that extra XP to me when it means I don't get any XP from another quest?

I agree on not caring about the Flawless, but my point still stands that people do care yet it is less XP then you get from the Voice.

I never said it was a necessity, it is a nice to have and it has a bonus that can be very handy when +1 matters. I've been in many situations where +1 for a skill mattered.

There are lots of different reasons for extra XP, you are right some use it for the soul purpose of leveling faster. But that is not its only use.

I don't see it as a negative. As you have said there is plenty of XP. When I run a quest the XP is the bonus, the adventure of the quest is the primary focus. Yes I've run many a quest and earned 0 XP, but I still walked out with some loot and a good time.

FranOhmsford
07-16-2015, 11:23 AM
Dragon's Blood can be used by All classes that have spells that cannot switch them at a shrine; Bards, Favored Souls, Sorcerers and Warlocks. The advantage of the Dragon's Blood is that you have 30 minutes of free spell swaps. Now this is expensive way to switch a single spell. However, it is a very cheap way to completely change your spell list if you decide to change up your Enhancements such as going from a Fire Savant to Earth Savant at later levels. Dong so with 1 spell a day could take you weeks to do all the spell switching. If you are new to any of the above classes having 1 or 2 of these on hand to make major switches can help you feel less frustrated. Additionally there is no wait time on their use, so if you switch from Fire to Earth and then decide the next day you want to go Ice using the Dragon's Blood will allow you to do that.

Now this is something I disagree vehemently with!

I absolutely loathe the idea that a Sorc should level up in one element and play end-game in another as if I roll up a Fire Savant that's what I want to Play NOT an Earth or Ice or Air Savant!
And If I want to play an Air Savant I don't want to only be able to play it at cap, I want to be able to play it through ALL levels!


But apart from that - Swapping your entire focus on a Sorc requires far more than just Enhancement and Spell swaps!
It can require MULTIPLE Feat Swaps!
It can require getting a whole new Gear set-up!
It's a massive undertaking that should not be done lightly and can just as easily end up with you finding you can't stand the new set-up!

It's certainly not something that should be pushed on Newbies and therefore Dragon's Blood is a newbie trap!
Especially when vets can easily get as much Dragon's Blood as they'll ever need by running Tor Dragons over-level before TRing!



Actually, a lot of the reason for me to run Gianthold is for the favor, as the second favor Tier is +10 HP. Now that does not seem like a lot in the grand scheme but it is more HP.

I knew this was going to pop it's head up!

Yes that 10hp is nice but it's not the main reason to run GH and even if you were running GH specifically for that it's a completely different Favour Reward that has nothing to do with the ones I'm talking about!
This means that you're still not going to know beforehand exactly what you want from the 75 Favour Reward list and therefore when that list comes up it's best to know what is useful to you and what isn't BEFORE taking anything!


The useful/valuable is set by the person making the selection. If the item is something they need it will be more valuable to them. While a Fighter might find Dragon's Blood useless, the Sorcerer who started out as an Earth Savant may see this as the opportunity they were looking for to switch to being an Air Savant. The fighter might even find the Velah Cookies more valuable at the time knowing that the Fireshield cold will help him more in the Reaver's Reach quest line to survive the boss fight.

I thought Velah Cookies = Cometfall? Have they changed them?

Still - Velah Cookies or a Portable Hole for next life? I can't see anyone taking the cookies!
Velah Cookies vs a guaranteed 200k plat after the AH has taken it's cut from a Flawless Sib? Yeah no way am I taking those Cookies!

Vindraxx
07-16-2015, 12:30 PM
I agree with a lot of the previous posters, but I'll try to give a "leveling list of items/stats" I keep an eye out for.

For all characters:

Blindness removal, lesso resto, cure serious, disease removal and curse removal pots.
I also am a firm believer in UMD and try to include it on all my characters. If you have UMD, the scrolls I would carry at minimum are Restoration, Greater Restoration, Teleport and Raise Dead.
A deathblock item and a max level silver flame necklace. When battling beholders specifically this combination will be extremely helpful.
A way to get deathward. The Tangelroot chain goggles are probably the easiest way to get this until a time when you can get your hands on an eternal deathward flask (I use both personally, sometimes the flask bugs out). Another option here is to bring a hireling that can cast the deathward spell. Park it at the entrance cast deathward and if you ever need it refreshed call the hireling to you.
A way to get blur/blurry. If I can't cast it, I typically use the cove trinket that has it on it while leveling. If you don't have the cove trinket (or need your trinket slot) you can get the bracers of wind from the cannith challenges pretty easily for this.
False life item. The highest level one I can use, is very helpful while leveling.
Voice of the Master. 5% exp is good on all characters and as another poster mentioned sometimes that good luck bonus can come in handy for a rogue/trapper specifically.
Highest stat item usable that keeps my primary score even. If I am playing a STR based character, I will try to make sure I'm keeping my STR at max possible at the appropriate level intervals. I always try to wear the highest CON item I can as well.
Highest Striding/Speed/Alacrity you can find/fit into your setup. I can actually live with less alacrity, but if my striding is below 30% I feel like the game is just moving too slowly for me. For this reason, I typically like human as a race option because you can get the dragonmark for expeditious retreat at level 1 and later on you get access to Dimension Door which is incredibly useful.
A way to get greater heroism. I personally do not have a planar gird (never farmed it), so I typically get this from human enhancements. Scrolls are another option here, but this is a tremendously useful buff to attacks, skill checks, saves and grants immunity to fear.

For casters:
Wizardy/Magi items.
Potency or preferably whatever your main casting element +spellpower bonus.
Appropriate "Lore" item to give spell critical increase
Any DC enhancing gear for your main spell school. Cannith crafting can really help with this at low levels.

For melee/ranged:
Deadly item, highest usable always.
If possible, I'll also try to fit in an accuracy item. Sometimes this isn't necessary, but if you find yourself missing in combat on anything other than 1's, this is needed.
Good weapons... it's too hard to pick exactly one weapon that is permanently "good" for all builds, but as a physical damage fighter it's critical this be your top upgrade priority whenever you can. A lot of people will say Carnifex for low levels is universally the best item.

For rogues/trappers
The highest Search, Disable Device and Open Lock (if you have it) items you can get at each skill level. I have a few various versions for the Spare Hand from Cannith challenges here which I think is a fantastic option and gives other good stats.
Spyglass from Crystal Cove also deserves mention here, I have multiple variants and it is very worth having if you can get a few copies when Cove comes around.

Now I did that list off the top of my head so there are probably things I'm missing and I didn't go through Favor rewards but you could look up the ones you'd find valuable through DDOwiki (bank space, bag space, etc.). If you are planning to do multiple heroic lives on a single character, I strongly encourage you to farm for greensteel items. These are tremendously powerful at heroic levels and I even use some of them in epic levels (Concordant Opposition, +Spell points, +HP and exception skills are all very useful). There are many options here and I am sure you could find a guide specifically on greensteel.

Edit: Just realized... none of this is "Must Have". I am sure there are people that have leveled to 20 near naked. But in terms of things to prioritize having "if you can get them" I recommend starting with this list.

Enoach
07-16-2015, 12:51 PM
Now this is something I disagree vehemently with!

I absolutely loathe the idea that a Sorc should level up in one element and play end-game in another as if I roll up a Fire Savant that's what I want to Play NOT an Earth or Ice or Air Savant!
And If I want to play an Air Savant I don't want to only be able to play it at cap, I want to be able to play it through ALL levels!


But apart from that - Swapping your entire focus on a Sorc requires far more than just Enhancement and Spell swaps!
It can require MULTIPLE Feat Swaps!
It can require getting a whole new Gear set-up!
It's a massive undertaking that should not be done lightly and can just as easily end up with you finding you can't stand the new set-up!

It's certainly not something that should be pushed on Newbies and therefore Dragon's Blood is a newbie trap!
Especially when vets can easily get as much Dragon's Blood as they'll ever need by running Tor Dragons over-level before TRing!

You can disagree with how it can be used that is totally up to you. But the option to be able to do that can help a player who thought they would enjoy one savant switch to something that they enjoy more. It does not always mean switching multiple Feats. Maybe a switch from Evocation to Conjuration, most sorcerers I know spend their limited feats in boosting spell power and may throw a feat at Spell Focus, few will go to Greater Spell Focus. But a switch between one Evocation to another Evocation focus Tree will not require a feat swap. Again, if you only look at it based on what power-gamers will do with it then you handy-cap those that simply made a bad decision for themselves.

It is not a newbie trap, it is very clear what it does in its description and is a good way to fix a character a player is not happy with without having to wait weeks to be able to see the effects of such change.



I knew this was going to pop it's head up!

Yes that 10hp is nice but it's not the main reason to run GH and even if you were running GH specifically for that it's a completely different Favour Reward that has nothing to do with the ones I'm talking about!
This means that you're still not going to know beforehand exactly what you want from the 75 Favour Reward list and therefore when that list comes up it's best to know what is useful to you and what isn't BEFORE taking anything!

Then why play it down?

Actually when gianthold first came out this was my favorite zone and I spent months just running these 10 quests, I know and share secrets of these quests that have been lost to most players. Many who run these quests with me have even commented about things they just didn't know (and I'm not talking safe spots or jump arounds). I run this area each life because it reminds me of being level 9 and stepping into this area for the first time and how big DDO seemed at the time. The XP wasn't bad either :).



I thought Velah Cookies = Cometfall? Have they changed them?

Still - Velah Cookies or a Portable Hole for next life? I can't see anyone taking the cookies!
Velah Cookies vs a guaranteed 200k plat after the AH has taken it's cut from a Flawless Sib? Yeah no way am I taking those Cookies!
[/QUOTE]
It seems they have changed they are now comet fall, so not so useful. I find most Attack spell cookies to be AH fodder as even at the lowest level they just don't seem to be helpful (at least to me). I do like the buffs and the summons.

I relooked up the Argo favor and it turns out this is suppose to be random Festavault cookie. Now not everyone finds consumables worth it, either they end up not being of any use like blade barriers with such low save that kobolds laugh at you, or they end up "To Good To Use" and collect dust. Over the years I've adapted a more, use the consumable approach. What I found from that is that I spend less time worrying about my buffs and healing options and more time playing the game.


Bottom line is that what a player basically needs on a character to succeed in DDO is in Vellrad's list with my only addendum being a range weapon like thrower or bow.

Each of us can come up with our own value of what is available, the danger is when we attempt to push our own value on others based on our own standards.

You have admitted that you struggle at times and see players excel where you are having trouble. When I find myself in that situation I question what I'm doing/valuing differently then them and self examine why and if what I know now means a change is necessary. I find self examination helps a lot in breaking through barriers that I've self imposed.

EllisDee37
07-16-2015, 12:56 PM
Cloak of Invisibility (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Cloak_of_Invisibility) is a great leveling item for just about any character. The two notable exceptions are pale masters and monks who invest in the third ninja core.

Bracers of Wind (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bracers_of_Wind_%28Level_3%29) are great for leveling for the same reason as cloak of invisibility. (Concealment and incorporeal work together, though they do not technically stack. They are rolled separately.)

Zzevel
07-16-2015, 02:00 PM
Just a couple more, on my melee toons I try to have to ALL of the following items with the highest values I can find

Deadly (More damage per hit, every time)
Seeker (More damage per CRITICAL hit)
Speed (Faster attack rate + faster movement)
Fortification (You reduce your chance of getting critical hit, i.e less times taking double or triple damage) (Heavy Fort (100%) available as Augment @ level 8)
False Life (More Hit Points)
Constitution Item (More Hit Points, Bonus to Fortitude Saving throw)
Primary Stat (Usually Strength, Dexterity, Charisma or Intelligence depending on your build - More damage)
Deathblock (More so after level 10)
Anything with Healing Amplificatio (http://ddowiki.com/page/Healing_Amplification)n
Weapon - Any named weapon of what I use with an expanded Damage dice (more damage), Crit Range (more critical hits) or critical multiplier (bigger critical hits)

If I can fit it in
Weapon - Keen or Impact enchantment (Critical hit your opponent more often)
Accuracy (Increases how often you hit - only if I see I am missing alot)
Dexterity/Wisdom Item (Bonus to Will/Reflex Saving throw)
Dodge Item
Vitality (More Hit Points, stacks with False Life)
Fear Immunity (I slot this as an augment @ lvl 8)
Any + Damage enchantments like Staggering Blow (http://ddowiki.com/page/Staggering_Blow), Shocking Blow (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shocking_Blow) or Thunderstruck (http://ddowiki.com/page/Thunderstruck)
Blur/Blurry and Incorperal on items



At all costs AVOID people with strong opinions who take over a simple help thread with their petty disagreements because their opinion is more better than the previous poster.

Fedora1
07-16-2015, 02:10 PM
One item most people desire is Voice of the Master (http://ddowiki.com/page/Voice_of_the_Master). You get it as one of your end-reward choices for completing the Delera's Tomb story arc (http://ddowiki.com/page/Delera%27s_Tomb). This is a Pay-to-play quest series.




And in my opinion this item is vastly over-rated and no longer necessary - It's a swap in for the end of quests at best {If you remember!} and does little other than take up a valuable inventory slot.

That's just dumb. One inventory slot that you can swap out is not worth +5% xp? Stop giving bad advice to new people.



There's so much XP available in DDO now and I'm of the opinion that a newbie who levels up too fast is far more likely to leave the game than one who takes it slower!

Your opinion is noted, and probably wrong. Pray tell me why xp potions are big sellers in the DDO store? Pray tell me why so many people buy xp stones? Pray tell me why so many people run elite for BB? It's because leveling up fast is more fun that leveling up slow to most people.



Voice of the Master {and other sources of extra XP} are loved by those who want to level up fast but think of it as a bonus and most definitely NOT a necessity!

Go back and read my post, I said it was desired by most people. And I'm right. I don't personally know anyone who doesn't have one unless they have the augment you make by combining it with the mantle. Also, in 90% of the PUGS I join, at least one person, if not several, always post "Voice" or link to their own VotM in party chat at the end of the quest.


Heck - If you're like me it may be more of a negative than a bonus anyway - What use is that extra XP to me when it means I don't get any XP from another quest?

More xp a negative? I will hazard a guess and say very very few people are like you in that respect.


Again, to the OP, if you have Delera's or can afford it, it's a nice pack to get with other nice, unique, bound items (such as Carnifex). The xp is very good for most of these quests too.

Vindraxx
07-16-2015, 02:19 PM
Fortification (You reduce your chance of getting critical hit, i.e less times taking double or triple damage) (Heavy Fort (100%) available as Augment @ level 8)


Somehow I forgot this... but Heavy fortification is absolutely necessary.

Enoach
07-16-2015, 03:24 PM
Somehow I forgot this... but Heavy fortification is absolutely necessary.

Keeping in mind it is not Heavy fortification that is necessary but the ability to have 100% fortification as early as possible - for new players that might mean waiting until at least level 9 as I believe that is the lowest ML for Heavy Fortification.

Now there are exceptions. WF race can get by with Medium fortification (75%) because they already have natural fortification.

I actually have a story were in game before we had epics added I was asked if I had a Heavy fortification item, I answered that no I have a medium fortification item on (at that time a Head of Good fortune). I was WF and had 100% fortification because of the Medium Fortification and being WF. The party leader then went off on how stupid I was for not having Heavy Fort. Once he was done with his rant I then explained to him that I had 100% fortification even with a Medium Fortification item. The best part was the laughs from the other party members when the PL realized how wrong he was.

As your character becomes more seasoned with Past Lives you can adjust even more.

Now I've been running a Bow based fighter/wizard and actually found that 50%+ fortification was enough, but to err on the side of caution the closer to 100% at heroics level the better. At Epic levels you will want more, but here 150 to 160 % cover 95% of the bases, the other 5% are situations you wouldn't want to get hit normally in.

Again, I'm not advocating not to have 100%+ fortification, I'm just saying that having any fortification is good and 100%+ is better.

FranOhmsford
07-16-2015, 03:36 PM
That's just dumb. One inventory slot that you can swap out is not worth +5% xp? Stop giving bad advice to new people.

1) That is not bad advice!

2) Neither is it dumb!

What is bad is assuming that anyone and everyone has to burn every last drop of xp they can get as fast as possible!

What is worse is then pushing newbies to buy a pack that is at best boring and at worst annoying just for an item that they may find simply wasn't worth the hassle!

Now Carnifex is also in my opinion over-rated - Yes it's a nice Axe! But is it a necessity? No! Are there other Two Handed Weapons of the same level that are good choices? Yes! The Antique Greataxe is a personal favourite of mine and no harder to get than Carni {in fact considering Carni's extremely low drop rate you have a far better chance of getting the Antique before the 3rd completion than the Carni.}. Are Greataxes even a better choice than Greatswords for many THF builds? Heck No!


OP: Nice to have these items are - I'm not disputing that!
However:
I'm just giving an opposing opinion on items that I don't see as necessities so you have a better idea of what may be worth it to you and what may not.


Your opinion is noted, and probably wrong. Pray tell me why xp potions are big sellers in the DDO store? Pray tell me why so many people buy xp stones? Pray tell me why so many people run elite for BB? It's because leveling up fast is more fun that leveling up slow to most people.

There is no right and wrong here - Only opinions!

Do you have proof that XP pots are big sellers in the store?
And what exactly counts as a big seller? Obviously more XP pots will have been sold in total than Phiarlan Carnival or Sharn Syndicate Quest packs but that's because quest packs are a one off buy and XP Pots a consumable.
Do XP Pots sell better than Cure Pots? Or Mnem Pots? Or Renown Pots even?

How do you even work this out without a Dev giving you exact sales numbers?


Yes many people like XP - Many more people aren't that fussed about XP and just take what they get!

Yes I'm probably in a tiny minority when I say Voice can be a negative for me {Yes I have Voice on a number of toons but then again what else am I going to take from the Delera's End Reward list when Carnifex never drops?}.
But it's still a valid opinion as is my point that many people who've quit DDO did so because they levelled up too fast and found themselves stuck without any way to get the gear they now needed! And many more quit because they levelled up too fast and found out they had to do it all over again and again and again.
Slow and Steady and 5 years later I'm still here!


Go back and read my post, I said it was desired by most people. And I'm right. I don't personally know anyone who doesn't have one unless they have the augment you make by combining it with the mantle. Also, in 90% of the PUGS I join, at least one person, if not several, always post "Voice" or link to their own VotM in party chat at the end of the quest.

It's become a thing to state or link Voice as some people do get angry if you don't! But again this is in no way ALL!

Who knows how many in that pug actually bother to search through their inventory to find their Voice? And even those with it on their bar may just decide "oh who cares".
I know I rarely bother switching to it.


Also: People have been told for years to get Voice asap {Delera's used to be the first pack out of people's mouths back in 2010 when asked by newbies which pack to buy - Vale was second}.
And Voice is a guaranteed drop while the rest of the Delera's loot even after being upgraded is distinctly unappetising {except Carnifex which is hardly ever there!}.

So yes - Anyone with Delera's will eventually pick up a Voice - But bothering to use it is another thing entirely.


More xp a negative? I will hazard a guess and say very very few people are like you in that respect.

I'll repeat what I said above:

Yes I'm probably in a tiny minority when I say Voice can be a negative for me {Yes I have Voice on a number of toons but then again what else am I going to take from the Delera's End Reward list when Carnifex never drops?}.
But it's still a valid opinion as is my point that many people who've quit DDO did so because they levelled up too fast and found themselves stuck without any way to get the gear they now needed! And many more quit because they levelled up too fast and found out they had to do it all over again and again and again.
Slow and Steady and 5 years later I'm still here!


More XP can very much be a negative when it pushes you past what you're comfortable with!
More XP can very much be a negative when you're trying to run everything at level on a 2nd life {forget it on a 1st life!}.
If I know I'm going to need to run Vale Flags anyway why would I want to take 20 even if I had the XP for it? Then I can't get a group for love nor money!


Again, to the OP, if you have Delera's or can afford it, it's a nice pack to get with other nice, unique, bound items (such as Carnifex). The xp is very good for most of these quests too.

The XP is nice yes but 3 Barrel is now better!
Has better loot by far!
Is far more fun!
And has Epic Content!
The Favour is a wash as neither Free Agents or House J offer anything of consequence. {Unless you're a trapper in which case 3 Barrel wins again!}.

Necro 1 has the required Favour for Silver Flame Pots - Not the necessity they once were thank goodness and the Favour can now be got elsewhere but I'd say this still puts Necro 1 ahead of Delera's.

Carnival is Epic Content and has the Antique Greataxe, The Mirror Cloak, The Utility Vest and a lot of other very nice loot!

Sentinels is part of the 3 Barrel Saga but apart from that has very little going for it - Even so...If you want XP that Saga Reward is a major benefit, If you're after Guild Renown Saga Rewards are a necessity and there's also the +1 Skill Tomes to pick up!

Xyy
07-16-2015, 03:52 PM
What is worse is then pushing newbies to buy a pack that is at best boring and at worst annoying just for an item that they may find simply wasn't worth the hassle!

I didn't see this on ddowiki. What's your source? If someone doesn't find it boring or annoying, are they doing it wrong? Could it be that you misspoke for others? Or is your opinion automatic fact?

FranOhmsford
07-16-2015, 04:21 PM
I didn't see this on ddowiki. What's your source? If someone doesn't find it boring or annoying, are they doing it wrong? Could it be that you misspoke for others? Or is your opinion automatic fact?

It's called an opinion!

And we all have those!

Now the OP may like Delera's or he may not but how are we to know whether he will or not if he's never run it and doesn't even own it?

Other people have stated that it's fun for them? Is my opinion that it's boring {an opinion I know for a fact is shared by more than a few people!} and annoying {again an opinion that has been opined by more than a few people} any less valid than his?
NO!
Because both are Opinions!

And now the OP has both opinions to work from - He knows some people like Delera's, He knows at least one doesn't!
Most importantly he knows that Delera's isn't universally loved as some people like to make it out to be!



If the OP decides to take other people's advice and buy Delera's I truly hope he enjoys it!
If he decides to wait on Delera's and buy other packs instead then again I truly hope he makes the right choice for HIM!


At the end of the day this has gone on too long and taken up enough of this thread - My final word on the matter is this:

I don't like Delera's!
I don't think Voice is necessary and may indeed be a negative in the long run.
I don't consider Carnifex anywhere near enough of a reason to spend 850 TP that could be far better spent on other content {specifically The Vault of Night is only 750, Sands is 950, Necro IV is 850 and the entire Necro bundle is only 1450!}.

Other people see things differently and maybe the OP will follow their advice - At least he'll have learned from both sides of the opinion divide rather than relying on only one side!

Fedora1
07-16-2015, 04:22 PM
1) That is not bad advice!

2) Neither is it dumb!

1. Yes, it is bad advice.
2. Yes, it is also dumb.

Now just stop. You're not helping, you're defending a very very silly opinion that I doubt is shared by anyone else.

OP - Delera's is a good pack. The Voice of the Master is a nice item that most people try to get and like to have.

Nothing is a necessity in the game, there are options and preferences. Fran is trying to tell you to get certain packs because they have good xp (like 3BC), then also telling you not to get an item that increases the xp you get from all quests by 5%. I'll let you use your own common sense detector for that argument. lol

Fedora1
07-16-2015, 04:24 PM
Yes I'm probably in a tiny minority when I say Voice can be a negative for me

If you know you are a tiny minority, why would you offer that kind of advice to someone new? Seems like advice in a thread like this should be universal advice, not niche advice. The OP will eventually come to his own conclusions.

Fedora1
07-16-2015, 04:29 PM
I don't like Delera's!

Hence we come to the crux of the matter. You just plain don't like it.

Was that worth derailing a simple "helpful advice" thread?

FranOhmsford
07-16-2015, 04:33 PM
Majority opinions aren't FACTS!

Majority opinions aren't the only valid opinions!

I've run Delera's on over 50 characters, some multiple times.
As I've run literally every quest under Lvl 10 a similar number of times.

And I regularly put LFMs up!

And Delera's is nowhere near the most popular if going only by the number of people who've joined me for it!

In fact it's pretty common that I'll end up soloing the entire chain!


So how much of a majority is it really that loves Delera's?

Even in this thread there's maybe a handful of people who've disagreed with me {and though their disagreement has been vehement it's hardly overwhelming evidence!}.



Anyway - As I've said previously: I'm done with this - I've made my point and the OP now has multiple opinions to go on!
Whatever he chooses {heck he may already own Delera's - He is a returnee rather than a newbie - and may be laughing at this thread} it's his decision and his decision alone to make!

General_Gronker
07-19-2015, 03:59 PM
so Epic Elite content pretty much demands at least +3s.

No, they really don't.


But in my personal experience +3s are not even enough for me to be capable in EEs!

That's not a reflection on the necessity of tomes.

Oxarhamar
07-20-2015, 12:08 AM
Majority opinions aren't FACTS!

Majority opinions aren't the only valid opinions!

I've run Delera's on over 50 characters, some multiple times.
As I've run literally every quest under Lvl 10 a similar number of times.

And I regularly put LFMs up!

And Delera's is nowhere near the most popular if going only by the number of people who've joined me for it!

In fact it's pretty common that I'll end up soloing the entire chain!


So how much of a majority is it really that loves Delera's?

Even in this thread there's maybe a handful of people who've disagreed with me {and though their disagreement has been vehement it's hardly overwhelming evidence!}.



Anyway - As I've said previously: I'm done with this - I've made my point and the OP now has multiple opinions to go on!
Whatever he chooses {heck he may already own Delera's - He is a returnee rather than a newbie - and may be laughing at this thread} it's his decision and his decision alone to make!


no the OP has 2 things here.

1) solid advice about the game
2) this other stuff that's just opinion