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View Full Version : So you want to survive in EE as a sorc? Heavy armor is your answer.



Avocado
06-02-2015, 09:53 PM
I just recently finished up my last sorc life and was ambitious with the build. I almost exclusively run ee content and the mobs tend to hit hard and sorcs tend to draw a lot of aggro with aoe spells. Most of the time taking more aggro then one can handle. I couldnt get my dodge up high enough to satisfy me so i ended up taking adamantine body. It was the best thing i could have done for my sorc. Prr goes up to around 100 and mrr about 50-60ish. Much better then a measly 12 or so percent dodge. I advise those wanting to play sorcs in endgame ee to find a way to get proficient in heavy armor. As a bladeforged/warforged you can drop your arcane spell failure by 35% (15% inherent body + EK tree 5% + 15% spell agility aug) so there is no worry on arcane spell failure. I will post my bladeforged 18/2pal fire sorc if some are interested.

May the age of running from bosses be over.

Thanks for reading and I hope this helps.

Eth
06-03-2015, 01:12 AM
I advise those wanting to play sorcs in endgame ee to find a way to get proficient in heavy armor.

Proficient? You realise that's 3 feats?

With the more standard layout being something like Maximise, Empower, Heighten, Quicken, PL:Wiz, 2xFocus Feats.
What would you even drop? And then you have to invest into EK to get rid of ASF if you go heavy.

I personally go with light armor or medium armor without proficiency, depending if I take the ASF reduction from drow or not (even those AP are tight).

Lonnbeimnech
06-03-2015, 03:04 AM
Proficient? You realise that's 3 feats?

With the more standard layout being something like Maximise, Empower, Heighten, Quicken, PL:Wiz, 2xFocus Feats.
What would you even drop? And then you have to invest into EK to get rid of ASF if you go heavy.

I personally go with light armor or medium armor without proficiency, depending if I take the ASF reduction from drow or not (even those AP are tight).

With WF/BF it's a bit easier to fit in, and obviously pally splash gets it free. But for everyone else, yeah 3 feats is way too much.

Eth
06-03-2015, 03:17 AM
With WF/BF it's a bit easier to fit in, and obviously pally splash gets it free. But for everyone else, yeah 3 feats is way too much.

I just wanted to point out that it's not that simple for fleshies.
But anyway not being proficient isn't that bad. You only lose the BAB part of the formular, which isn't much to begin with on a sorc.

So generally OP is correct - it is a good idea to slap on some armor. It's basically free PRR/MRR.
I still wouldn't take heavy though, don't like those AP put in EK.

FranOhmsford
06-03-2015, 05:32 AM
Proficient? You realise that's 3 feats?


Excuse me?

Adamantine Body is ONE Feat!

What are the other two?

And with two Pally levels Heavy Armour is free to Fleshies anyway! {Sorcs don't have any bonus feats to lose here.}.


Arcane Spell Failure removal is all Enhancements and Gear NOT Feats!


The OP said nothing about using a Shield but even then you don't HAVE to take Shield Mastery!

Eth
06-03-2015, 06:05 AM
Excuse me?

Adamantine Body is ONE Feat!

What are the other two?

And with two Pally levels Heavy Armour is free to Fleshies anyway! {Sorcs don't have any bonus feats to lose here.}.
Read the other posts? Obvious is obvious.
It's already mentioned that toasters only need 1 feat and fleshy pallys get it free. But not every sorc fits these prereqs.
Worst case (fleshy pure sorc) you would need 3 feats to get heavy armor prof.



Arcane Spell Failure removal is all Enhancements and Gear NOT Feats!
Correct, but it's not like someone here claimed otherwise.



The OP said nothing about using a Shield but even then you don't HAVE to take Shield Mastery!
No one else in this thread mentioned shields either. Not sure what that comment is about.

FranOhmsford
06-03-2015, 07:26 AM
Read the other posts? Obvious is obvious.
It's already mentioned that toasters only need 1 feat and fleshy pallys get it free. But not every sorc fits these prereqs.
Worst case (fleshy pure sorc) you would need 3 feats to get heavy armor prof.


Correct, but it's not like someone here claimed otherwise.


No one else in this thread mentioned shields either. Not sure what that comment is about.

So why not actually state the other two feats then?

I can't think of any reason why ANY sorc or wizard should need to take 3 feats to get Hvy Armour Prof!

The reason I mentioned the Shield profs is in case that's what people were talking about!

And NO IT'S NOT OBVIOUS AT ALL!

What are these supposed feats that are required to be proficient in heavy armour when there's no feat that gives reduced ASF and you're not talking about Shields?

Lonnbeimnech
06-03-2015, 07:37 AM
So why not actually state the other two feats then?

I can't think of any reason why ANY sorc or wizard should need to take 3 feats to get Hvy Armour Prof!

The reason I mentioned the Shield profs is in case that's what people were talking about!

And NO IT'S NOT OBVIOUS AT ALL!

What are these supposed feats that are required to be proficient in heavy armour when there's no feat that gives reduced ASF and you're not talking about Shields?
A pure fleshy sorc/wizard does not get proficiency in any armor. If he wished to get proficiency in heavy armor he needs to first take light armor proficiency and medium armor proficiency. The light and medium armor proficiency granted in ek do not count, because it would be too easy to spend the ap, then spend one feat on heavy armor prof, and then drop the ek tree completely. So they prevent that by requiring you spend 3 feats, to gain light armor, then medium armor, then heavy armor proficiency.

The op talks about taking heavy armor proficiency, but then goes on to say that he took adamant body. It is much easier to take adamant body for one feat than for a fleshy caster to try to take all 3 armor feats to get to heavy armor proficiency, and unless its an elf, will have more of an issue getting asf down to 0, as wf and bf get 15% from racial, so do elves, but no one else.

Eth
06-03-2015, 07:39 AM
So why not actually state the other two feats then?

I can't think of any reason why ANY sorc or wizard should need to take 3 feats to get Hvy Armour Prof!

The reason I mentioned the Shield profs is in case that's what people were talking about!

And NO IT'S NOT OBVIOUS AT ALL!

What are these supposed feats that are required to be proficient in heavy armour when there's no feat that gives reduced ASF and you're not talking about Shields?

Oh, OK then...
Heavy armor prof. requires medium armor prof., while medium armor prof. requires light armor prof.
Sorcerers get none of these so you have to take all 3. I actually thought that was clear. Sorry for the confusion.

FranOhmsford
06-03-2015, 07:39 AM
A pure fleshy sorc/wizard does not get proficiency in any armor. If he wished to get proficiency in heavy armor he needs to first take light armor proficiency and medium armor proficiency. The light and medium armor proficiency granted in ek do not count, because it would be too easy to spend the ap, then spend one feat on heavy armor prof, and then drop the ek tree completely. So they prevent that by requiring you spend 3 feats, to gain light armor, then medium armor, then heavy armor proficiency.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Heavy_Armor_Proficiency

So why aren't these "pre-reqs" mentioned on the DDOWiki then?

So not obvious that even the DDOWiki doesn't know about it!

Lonnbeimnech
06-03-2015, 07:50 AM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Heavy_Armor_Proficiency

So why aren't these "pre-reqs" mentioned on the DDOWiki then?

So not obvious that even the DDOWiki doesn't know about it!

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Will-Ferrell-Confused-Stare.gif

cru121
06-03-2015, 08:13 AM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Heavy_Armor_Proficiency
So why aren't these "pre-reqs" mentioned on the DDOWiki then?
So not obvious that even the DDOWiki doesn't know about it!

http://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Heavy_Armor_Proficiency&curid=2203&diff=258430&oldid=255912

You're welcome. Happy Armor-Up Day everyone.

FranOhmsford
06-03-2015, 08:16 AM
http://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Heavy_Armor_Proficiency&curid=2203&diff=258430&oldid=255912

You're welcome. Happy Armor-Up Day everyone.

Thank You.

arminius
06-03-2015, 08:46 AM
For shield, don't forget the Skyvault Shield, a tower shield with 0 ASF.

It looks STUPID though, like you are walking around with the passenger door of a 747, I use a shield cosmetic over it.

Epic Elite version has two slots for red augments, to make up at least partially for the loss of your left handed caster stick.

It's useful situationally at least.

FranOhmsford
06-03-2015, 09:17 AM
For shield, don't forget the Skyvault Shield, a tower shield with 0 ASF.

It looks STUPID though, like you are walking around with the passenger door of a 747, I use a shield cosmetic over it.

Epic Elite version has two slots for red augments, to make up at least partially for the loss of your left handed caster stick.

It's useful situationally at least.

One of the best looking shields in the game!

Unlike most Tower Shield graphics at least this one looks like you can actually use it as a Tower Shield!

giftie
06-03-2015, 10:50 AM
Question 1: Does light and medium armor proficiency from EK tree count as pre-requisites for HA feat? (I assume they don't, but could be wrong.)

Question 2: Do you still get light or medium armor profiency bonus to PRR while wearing HA/adamantine plating?

I'm unable to test it myself at the moment.

Avocado
06-03-2015, 12:33 PM
Proficient? You realise that's 3 feats?

With the more standard layout being something like Maximise, Empower, Heighten, Quicken, PL:Wiz, 2xFocus Feats.
What would you even drop? And then you have to invest into EK to get rid of ASF if you go heavy.

I personally go with light armor or medium armor without proficiency, depending if I take the ASF reduction from drow or not (even those AP are tight).

Not if you skip out on 20 sorc and take 1 fighter or 2 paladin. Id say the +20some to all saves or the heavy armor prof is better then sorc cap. Especially when you are BF/WF because the the capstone active makes you immune to repair.

If you go WF/BF you can invest 7 points in EK and 4 in WF/BF tree to completely drop ASF.

Also, I dont take maximize or empower. They feel like a trap and the sp usage is too high. It affects SLAs yes, but it isnt worth 2 feats to get a fireball i can cast every 8sec?.

Avocado
06-03-2015, 12:42 PM
Question 1: Does light and medium armor proficiency from EK tree count as pre-requisites for HA feat? (I assume they don't, but could be wrong.)

Question 2: Do you still get light or medium armor profiency bonus to PRR while wearing HA/adamantine plating?

I'm unable to test it myself at the moment.

1. They dont count as pre-reqs.

2. I assume if you have heavy armor proficiency you are also granted medium and light.

Avocado
06-03-2015, 01:08 PM
A pure fleshy sorc/wizard does not get proficiency in any armor. If he wished to get proficiency in heavy armor he needs to first take light armor proficiency and medium armor proficiency. The light and medium armor proficiency granted in ek do not count, because it would be too easy to spend the ap, then spend one feat on heavy armor prof, and then drop the ek tree completely. So they prevent that by requiring you spend 3 feats, to gain light armor, then medium armor, then heavy armor proficiency.

The op talks about taking heavy armor proficiency, but then goes on to say that he took adamant body. It is much easier to take adamant body for one feat than for a fleshy caster to try to take all 3 armor feats to get to heavy armor proficiency, and unless its an elf, will have more of an issue getting asf down to 0, as wf and bf get 15% from racial, so do elves, but no one else.

Invest in 2 paladin. Maybe i made the make in assuming all sorcs are drow or BF/WF. There are arcane casting dex items all throughout the game for those you arent drow/elf/wf.

giftie
06-03-2015, 02:31 PM
1. They dont count as pre-reqs.

2. I assume if you have heavy armor proficiency you are also granted medium and light.

Thanks for the reply!

I meant without HA proficiency but still wearing HA (ACP on a Sorc isn't a big deal). According to the feat description, you'd only get proficiency bonus if you wear an armor you're proficient with, but I take nothing for granted in DDO and plating might work a bit differently.

Red_Knight
06-08-2015, 01:09 PM
Not if you skip out on 20 sorc and take 1 fighter or 2 paladin. Id say the +20some to all saves or the heavy armor prof is better then sorc cap. Especially when you are BF/WF because the the capstone active makes you immune to repair.

If you go WF/BF you can invest 7 points in EK and 4 in WF/BF tree to completely drop ASF.

Also, I dont take maximize or empower. They feel like a trap and the sp usage is too high. It affects SLAs yes, but it isnt worth 2 feats to get a fireball i can cast every 8sec?.

I usually don't turn on maximize or empower for most spells. That said, the SLA hugely benefit from metamagic. And I have my fireball spell set to "always empower" because I find that to be the most cost effective method of casting the spell most times. I only turn on both feats for all spells when I get to a boss I want dead, and want it dead yesterday.

Ghwyn
07-08-2015, 07:53 AM
My sorc's last life was BF with one level of paladin. Used one feat for adamantine and the damage reduction was worth it along with points spent in EK tree.

knockcocker
07-08-2015, 08:33 AM
Not if you skip out on 20 sorc and take 1 fighter or 2 paladin. Id say the +20some to all saves or the heavy armor prof is better then sorc cap. Especially when you are BF/WF because the the capstone active makes you immune to repair.

If you go WF/BF you can invest 7 points in EK and 4 in WF/BF tree to completely drop ASF.

Also, I dont take maximize or empower. They feel like a trap and the sp usage is too high. It affects SLAs yes, but it isnt worth 2 feats to get a fireball i can cast every 8sec?.

Eth already (and needlessly IMO - it should be obvious) pointed out the permutations of this. The title
of the thread only mentions sorc and EE - it doesn't say BF/WF or 18/2 or any combination thereof.

As for your comments on max/emp, I'm not sure whether you're trolling or not.

More generally, if you're proficient and care about the BAB addition to PRR - DP clickies would, I think,
take care of that.

Blackheartox
07-08-2015, 08:55 AM
Why do people think harmor is the solution for everything sigh.
In my last sorc life i went 18 bf 1 fsoul 1 monk and utilized docents and being centerd while keeping all feats i need and could ever want for dcs/nuking.

IF you want to play a harmor or addie body sorc, you will spend to many points, to many useless points in eldritch, you will waste some of mandatory feats and your dcs wont be high enough for epic elite contet.
So what you do then is splash 2-4 levels of fsoul or wizzard and just do a dumbed down shiradi.
Imo that is the natural progresion of addie body /palie levels or harmor feat unless you do what eth said.

So question toward opener, is he talking about shiradi sorcs or dc sorcs?
Since those 2 are appereantly 2 different existences and play entirely different and have different content approach

Also here is a screenie of stats i had at that build, of course a draconic dc sorc, i will never taint my sorcs by going shiradi ;) :
http://postimg.org/image/qi3inb7tb/

I laugh at those who take addie body and waste feats, and lose 20% dodge.
But lets assume a pure fleshie.
3% air ele form 1 haste 11 item 3 plifes for a nice sum of 18% dodge.
ITs imo more mitigation then harmor provides

knockcocker
07-08-2015, 09:11 AM
why do people think harmor is the solution for everything sigh.
In my last sorc life i went 18 bf 1 fsoul 1 monk and utilized docents and being centerd while keeping all feats i need and could ever want for dcs/nuking.

If you want to play a harmor or addie body sorc, you will spend to many points, to many useless points in eldritch, you will waste some of mandatory feats and your dcs wont be high enough for epic elite contet.
So what you do then is splash 2-4 levels of fsoul or wizzard and just do a dumbed down shiradi.
Imo that is the natural progresion of addie body /palie levels or harmor feat unless you do what eth said.

So question toward opener, is he talking about shiradi sorcs or dc sorcs?
Since those 2 are appereantly 2 different existences and play entirely different and have different content approach

also here is a screenie of stats i had at that build, of course a draconic dc sorc, i will never taint my sorcs by going shiradi ;) :
http://postimg.org/image/qi3inb7tb/

i laugh at those who take addie body and waste feats, and lose 20% dodge.

ikr

Azurchaos
09-03-2015, 12:52 AM
For shield, don't forget the Skyvault Shield, a tower shield with 0 ASF.

It looks STUPID though, like you are walking around with the passenger door of a 747, I use a shield cosmetic over it.

Epic Elite version has two slots for red augments, to make up at least partially for the loss of your left handed caster stick.

It's useful situationally at least.

While not a tower shield the Fanion would be better used for a caster imho.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Fanion

The_Golden
09-03-2015, 01:40 PM
So if you Do decide to run in Harmor (love the neologism btw) as a Sorc you get a less than optimal BAB bonus to your PRR.

My question is if you run Tensers do you get the full PRR bonus?

What about mithril Harmor? Counts as marmor (see what I did there?) but is actually Harmor.

Eth
09-04-2015, 01:52 AM
So if you Do decide to run in Harmor (love the neologism btw) as a Sorc you get a less than optimal BAB bonus to your PRR.

My question is if you run Tensers do you get the full PRR bonus?

What about mithril Harmor? Counts as marmor (see what I did there?) but is actually Harmor.

Tenser's would be too much of a drawback (double cooldowns).
If you really want to raise your PRR by having max BAB, you could use scrolls of divine power. Can be bought in House of Wizardry in House J.
Only last 1 minute though.

Endarire
09-17-2015, 10:18 PM
Does the arcane spell failure reduction from multiple augments on an item stack? If so, Heavy Shadow Dragon Armor (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Flawless_Shadow_Dragonplate_Armor) looks appealing!

Second, what does DR/Epic block? (Yes, it can be overcome by units that bypass Epic DR, but what sorts of mobs bypass that at level 28?)

Enderoc
09-17-2015, 11:34 PM
Not a sorc...but I think this is pretty good for a ranged caster....running in light armor has its advantages as a mage in my opinion...as a shirardi wraith

New Build
Wizard 20
Chaotic Good Elf


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .34pt . . 36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . ---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .9. . . . 9 . . . 10. . . .10. . . .+6 . . . 4: INT
Dexterity . . . 15. . . .15 . . . 16. . . .17. . . .+6 . . . 8: INT
Constitution. . 14. . . .14 . . . 14. . . .14. . . .+6 . . .12: INT
Intelligence. . 16. . . .16 . . . 16. . . .16. . . .+6 . . .16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . .14 . . . 14. . . .14. . . .+6 . . .20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . .8. . . . 8. . . .+6 . . .24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: INT

Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Wizard : Extend Spell
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.5 Wizard : Heighten Spell
.6. . . . : Precise Shot
.9. . . . : Maximize Spell
10 Wizard : Mental Toughness
12. . . . : Manyshot
15. . . . : Spell Focus: Conjuration
15 Wizard : Improved Mental Toughness
18. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
20 Wizard : Spell Focus: Enchantment
21 Epic . : Improved Precise Shot
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Elf (21 AP)
Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity, Elven Accuracy II
Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcane Fluidity III
Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcanum II
Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcane Archer

Archmage (12 AP)
Grease, Web
Energy of the Scholar III, Spell Critical
Spell Critical

Eldritch Knight (9 AP)
Eldritch Strike
Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness I
Light Armor Proficiency, Martial Training

Elf-Arcane Archer (5 AP)
Arcane Archer
Conjure Arrows, Corrosive Arrows

Harper Agent (12 AP)
Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness III, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept II
Strategic Combat

Pale Master (21 AP)
Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form
Deathless Vigor III, Negative Energy Conduit III
Bone Armor III
Cloak of Night III, Intelligence


Destiny (24 AP)

Shirardi Champion
Stay Frosty II, Dexterity
Prism, Dexterity
Rainbow, Otto's Whistler II
Double Rainbow, Stay Good III
Stand and Deliver, Nerve Venom III
Rain of Arrows

Thrudh
09-18-2015, 12:07 AM
sorcs tend to draw a lot of aggro with aoe spells. Most of the time taking more aggro then one can handle.

In the old days, one would learn how to manage aggro better, and become a better player...

Nowadays, people just continue to play dumb and strap on heavy armor...

<sigh>

Eth
09-18-2015, 03:03 AM
Does the arcane spell failure reduction from multiple augments on an item stack? If so, Heavy Shadow Dragon Armor (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Flawless_Shadow_Dragonplate_Armor) looks appealing!
No, multiple equipment sources don't stack.
You can have:
- 15% from equipment
- 15% racial (bladeforged, drow, elf)
- 5%-35% from eldritch knight

So usually people will go for the equipment+racial+6AP in EK for a 35% reduction (or in other words 0% ASF in Heavy Armor)



Second, what does DR/Epic block? (Yes, it can be overcome by units that bypass Epic DR, but what sorts of mobs bypass that at level 28?)
Before U14 the only known boss to bypass DR/Epic (which is also available to monks) was Velah.
I'm not sure if they also added this to the newer dragon bosses.
Apart from that, pretty much nothing should bypass DR/Epic.