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Sanader
06-01-2015, 07:08 AM
Hello,
I think it's about time I bring this up (should have done this 3 years ago), but why is kensai such a joke.
Mostly I'm talking about the t5 Keen Edge that adds +1 to critical range to a focus weapon group.
Let's se......

Paladins - have better saves, better buffs, better selfheals
KoTC- spell that gives +1 to crit range and +1 crit multiplier.
SD - spell that gives +1 to crit range and +1 crit multiplier.

Rogue - trap skills, all other skills, evasion but less PRR then fightrs
- acrobat - t5 gives +1 to crit range and +1 crit multiplier of q-staffs
- assassin - t5 gives +1 to crit range and +1 crit multiplier of daggers and there is a 18core that gives another +1 crit damage with one hand weapon or twf weapons (not to sure how it stacks)
- mechanic 18core - +1 crit multiplier, for great xbows is +2, vorpal on 19-20

Bards - best buffs, many skill points
- warchanter +1 crit multiplier on 19-20
- swashbuckler Dagger, Shortsword, Throwing Dagger: +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Light Mace, Light Hammer, Kama, Sickle, Dart, Shuriken, Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer: +2 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Kukri, Rapier: +1 Multiplier
Handaxe: +2 Range
Light Pick: +1 Range

Barbarians - bigger HP full, better heal amp and better self healing
- I wanted to count all the crits but thats just insane. Each core beats kensai core not even counting the crit multiplier from rage that they get.

Monks - evasion, movespeed, better healing, ki things.
- henshin t5 gives +1 to crit range and +1 crit multiplier of q-staffs (+ earth stance)
- ninja core +2 threat to kama and shuriken and +1 to shortswords (+ earth stance)
- shintao - no increases in multiplier (+ earthstance)


Can someone please explain kensai t5 to me? Why would anyone play a fighter kensai? I wanted to ask that quesiton someone ingame but didn't find anyone to ask.

Lonnbeimnech
06-01-2015, 07:29 AM
- shintao - no increases in multiplier (+ earthstance)
.

Shintao do get this though as a t5 enhancement.

Violence Begets Violence: While Earth Stance is active, when an opponent misses you in melee, you gain +1 critical threat range for 6 seconds. This stacks up to 5 times and is reset if you critically hit.

unbongwah
06-01-2015, 08:33 AM
Can someone please explain kensai t5 to me? Why would anyone play a fighter kensai?
For about a year after U19 came out, monk / kensei was the build to play; it had a near-optimal combo of DPS & survivability, to the point where everyone complained about every other build option being left in the dust. So for the last year, Turbine has been buffing the other melee classes (bards, pallies, barbs, rogs) to provide viable alternatives. The problem is they did such a good job of buffing them, now it's Kensei who are left behind. So ftrs (and monks) are stuck waiting for their time in the sun again...

DrawingGuy
06-01-2015, 08:50 AM
Kensei is still a nice tree - it provides extra action boosts, has haste boost (still the most powerful DPS increase action boost), bonuses to tactics. The cores are also pretty solid (especially for SWF). Overall, though, the tree admittedly isn't very strong. It has been designed for a cross class with Monk, which consequently would get the Earth Stance +1 crit multiplier on a 19-20, and the Kensei +1 crit range has more flexibility than the crit options of almost all the other classes. Pre-pass, Centered Kensei was one of the strongest melee builds (and still holds to have the biggest crits I've seen out of all my melee builds other than Tree). However a tree reliant on a cross class is already a questionable practice as it should be able to stand on it's own... which Kensei does not. It does need to be more than a great splash tree.

The good news is when the pass comes, I see a lot of room combining traits, changing DCs, and make it where "One With the Blade" becomes a singular trait for those that want to become Centered Kensei (or give up armor and apply Dance of Flowers 1.5[W] to the weapon group of their choice as that doesn't require Monk levels, though since Armor Up pass, that would be a questionable choice). That then would open up spaces to buff up the tree with new traits. However, whether the +1 crit range should be buffed or not isn't exactly a clear cut question. Fighter gets a lot of passive damage options via the tree and feats that are then multiplied with crits, so boosting their crit to the levels of Barbarian really isn't equivalent, and Pally Holy Sword probably won't stay the way it is according to rumors. Though considering they removed the penalties from Frenzies and added an extra tier of threat range to Rampager, why not do that for Keen Edge too?

Qhualor
06-01-2015, 08:54 AM
Patience one must have. On to do list Kensei is.

JOTMON
06-01-2015, 09:07 AM
Hello,
I think it's about time I bring this up (should have done this 3 years ago), but why is kensai such a joke.
Mostly I'm talking about the t5 Keen Edge that adds +1 to critical range to a focus weapon group.
Let's se......

Paladins - have better saves, better buffs, better selfheals
KoTC- spell that gives +1 to crit range and +1 crit multiplier.
SD - spell that gives +1 to crit range and +1 crit multiplier.

Rogue - trap skills, all other skills, evasion but less PRR then fightrs
- acrobat - t5 gives +1 to crit range and +1 crit multiplier of q-staffs
- assassin - t5 gives +1 to crit range and +1 crit multiplier of daggers and there is a 18core that gives another +1 crit damage with one hand weapon or twf weapons (not to sure how it stacks)
- mechanic 18core - +1 crit multiplier, for great xbows is +2, vorpal on 19-20

Bards - best buffs, many skill points
- warchanter +1 crit multiplier on 19-20
- swashbuckler Dagger, Shortsword, Throwing Dagger: +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Light Mace, Light Hammer, Kama, Sickle, Dart, Shuriken, Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer: +2 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Kukri, Rapier: +1 Multiplier
Handaxe: +2 Range
Light Pick: +1 Range

Barbarians - bigger HP full, better heal amp and better self healing
- I wanted to count all the crits but thats just insane. Each core beats kensai core not even counting the crit multiplier from rage that they get.

Monks - evasion, movespeed, better healing, ki things.
- henshin t5 gives +1 to crit range and +1 crit multiplier of q-staffs (+ earth stance)
- ninja core +2 threat to kama and shuriken and +1 to shortswords (+ earth stance)
- shintao - no increases in multiplier (+ earthstance)


Can someone please explain kensai t5 to me? Why would anyone play a fighter kensai? I wanted to ask that quesiton someone ingame but didn't find anyone to ask.

This ship has long since sailed.
Now evasion and PJ builds are inferior to the PRR heavy armor builds.
only old grizzled veterans even remember what Kensai was when it was worth playing.

the_one_dwarfforged
06-01-2015, 02:41 PM
Hello,
I think it's about time I bring this up (should have done this 3 years ago), but why is kensai such a joke.
Can someone please explain kensai t5 to me? Why would anyone play a fighter kensai? I wanted to ask that quesiton someone ingame but didn't find anyone to ask.

fighters were actually fine for a long while, three years ago was i think after the barb crit nerf, so they were fine then too. only lately with the buff of heavy armor and paladins/barbs have fighters been in a really ****** spot.

keen edge used to be very powerful, really one of the most powerful things in the game, turbine took that and ran with it to other classes and apparently felt it necessary to expand on it even (which makes sense for otherwise weak weapons, but not when it can be applied universally like holy sword can).

one would play a kensei because it is the least gimp fighter you can play. one would play a fighter to not play a pally or barb.

also this issue has been known for a while, even though people mostly dont seem to care.

Sanader
06-01-2015, 02:50 PM
Patience one must have. On to do list Kensei is.

Yeah heard that from few people, wasn't aware Devs knew about how good kensai is :D That are good News I guess ^.^

Zoda
06-01-2015, 06:24 PM
Still better than ranger or (unarmed) monk... but yeah, needs an update.

martryn
06-09-2015, 11:23 PM
Is there a reason to play a kensai if you're not multi-classing into monk? If you don't have monk levels, is there any benefit to being centered? Does One With the Blade have any effect if you're straight fighter? I'm genuinely curious since I've not played a monk, nor played a kensai to that point, and I've never TRed or anything.

Jetrule
06-09-2015, 11:57 PM
Kensai is a weird tree. It is designed for monk/fighters and shines the most it can with that tier 5 enhancement. It is a very Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon sort of mythical oriental warrior/ kungfu theater PRE. I would like to see selector options on all the obviously monk centered enhancements that can be beneficial for a armored fighter as well. That way you can build it as a weapon master or samurai type fighter.

And yeah I would bet it will see a crit damage mutiplier coming. Every other recent pass has seen increased crit damage as a center piece.

the_one_dwarfforged
06-17-2015, 10:57 PM
Is there a reason to play a kensai if you're not multi-classing into monk?
If you don't have monk levels, is there any benefit to being centered?
Does One With the Blade have any effect if you're straight fighter?


to wear heavy armor.
yes. you can take advantage of dance of flowers from gmof for +1.5[w].
yes. it makes you centered while wielding weapons of the appropriate type and wearing only robes.

FranOhmsford
06-18-2015, 12:42 AM
For about a year after U19 came out, monk / kensei was the build to play; it had a near-optimal combo of DPS & survivability, to the point where everyone complained about every other build option being left in the dust. So for the last year, Turbine has been buffing the other melee classes (bards, pallies, barbs, rogs) to provide viable alternatives. The problem is they did such a good job of buffing them, now it's Kensei who are left behind. So ftrs (and monks) are stuck waiting for their time in the sun again...

You know what's the real issue with the above?

It's that NEITHER Pure Monk NOR Pure Fighter were EVER OP!

It's that Kensei {a Fighter Tree} was clearly built to service Ftr/Monk Multiclass Builds!

It's that while the Devs have been busy doing what I've wanted for years and nerfing the Monk splash they've also been nerfing Pure Monk into the ground!

mezzorco
06-26-2015, 05:44 AM
Is there a reason to play a kensai if you're not multi-classing into monk? Yes. To wear heavy armor.
Heavy armor proficiency is inherent to the fighter class, it's not a reason to play a kensai specifically. In fact, kensai per se has no synergy with heavy armor.


If you don't have monk levels, is there any benefit to being centered? Yes. You can take advantage of dance of flowers from gmof for +1.5[w].
Sure. But if you are in heroics (or if you don't twist dance of flowers) being centered has no benefit for a non-monk. Indeed, it is probably detrimental because you're giving up a lot of PRR and MRR.


Does One With the Blade have any effect if you're straight fighter? Yes. It makes you centered while wielding weapons of the appropriate type and wearing only robes.
If you haven't twisted DoF, it has no effect.