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View Full Version : Melee flavor of the month?



HungarianRhapsody
05-22-2015, 09:06 AM
I've been playing *VERY* casually over the last year and haven't kept up at all with any of the recent changes. I'm about to TR my capped character. I want to make a self healing melee character, so I'll probably end up as a Bladeforged just so that I can get Reconstruct for free.

That means I'll have at least some Paladin levels since I'm too cheap to dump them with an LR. I have loved running around with Evasion, but I've heard good things about heavy armor recently. Also, with sword and shield or a single one handed weapon being more viable than they used to be, I know that there are more options on weapons than there once were.

Is there currently a flavor of the month that doesn't require enormous investment into crazy obscure gear and has both good survivability as well as good DPS? What melee character breakdown would you recommend to a player who won't end up putting a lot of time in and just wants to enjoy the ride back to 20 and then back through epics again?

psykopeta
05-22-2015, 09:13 AM
I've been playing *VERY* casually over the last year and haven't kept up at all with any of the recent changes. I'm about to TR my capped character. I want to make a self healing melee character, so I'll probably end up as a Bladeforged just so that I can get Reconstruct for free.

That means I'll have at least some Paladin levels since I'm too cheap to dump them with an LR. I have loved running around with Evasion, but I've heard good things about heavy armor recently. Also, with sword and shield or a single one handed weapon being more viable than they used to be, I know that there are more options on weapons than there once were.

Is there currently a flavor of the month that doesn't require enormous investment into crazy obscure gear and has both good survivability as well as good DPS? What melee character breakdown would you recommend to a player who won't end up putting a lot of time in and just wants to enjoy the ride back to 20 and then back through epics again?

pure pally and done xD

1 life thf, etr
another life twf, etr
another life swf, s&b, thf with another ed or weapon...

HazyOne
05-22-2015, 09:13 AM
Pure Pally, Pure Barb, or 15Bard/3Fit/2Rog, IMO.

Hazyone

FifthTime
05-22-2015, 09:18 AM
Pally or Barb. Both are easy button self healing dps machines.

HungarianRhapsody
05-22-2015, 09:25 AM
Pally or Barb. Both are easy button self healing dps machines.

I hate to admit that I'm *this* far out of the loop, but Barbs are self healing now? Does Vampiric Bond give that much HP or is there something else that I'm missing?

FuzzyDuck81
05-22-2015, 09:29 AM
I hate to admit that I'm *this* far out of the loop, but Barbs are self healing now? Does Vampiric Bond give that much HP or is there something else that I'm missing?

Occult slayer temp HP from vampiric bond gives some fairly often, and they get a clicky to heal a huge amount periodically by sacrificing some weapon bond, but it's ravager that really gives a huge amount of healing.. every hit has a 12 chance of healing your barb level in HP (boosted by healing amp, of which barbs get a LOT) & 20hp on each kill you make scaled my melee power - even in EE difficulty, that's a pretty fast regeneration rate in the middle of combat. Frenzied berserker gets a heal over time effect while raging (or just an extra +1W base damage, your choice) which is like a lower powered radiant servant aura & even works out of combat. All these healing abilities come in tier 5, so you only get 1.

HungarianRhapsody
05-22-2015, 10:13 AM
Hey! Did you all know that you can't Heroic Reincarnate if you're an Iconic race? I forgot that.

...looks like there will be a delay before I go back to level 1. I have to get back to level 28 first...

Buffyanne
05-22-2015, 10:31 AM
By far the easiest way to get to 20 now is Rogue mechanic. You can one shot everything and never get hit. Use great xbow. You can also get all traps for a continual 30% xp bonus. Rogue mechanic is the best starter build atm.

Buffyanne
05-22-2015, 10:34 AM
I hate to admit that I'm *this* far out of the loop, but Barbs are self healing now? Does Vampiric Bond give that much HP or is there something else that I'm missing?

No Barbs really can't self heal in heroics. They are very good self healing in epic but until they get up to the upper tier of heroics and into epics they must still rely upon cure serious wounds pots.

lugoman
05-22-2015, 10:43 AM
Flavor of the Month:


Nacho Cheese

axel15810
05-22-2015, 10:45 AM
Bladeforged Paladin is your best bet. Pure if you want, but at least 15 pally for holy sword.

Barbarians are amazing in epics, but probably not quite as good in heroics. The ravager self-healing really only becomes OP when tons of healing amp is stacked on, and you don't get a ton of healing amp gear options in heroics whereas you'll get the reconstruct SLA early.

Yep, it's crazy how barbs are probably the best self-healers in the game now. The devs overshot the ravager self-healing especially, and have admitted so themselves.

I believe DDO would benefit immensely from Holy Sword and Barb self-healing getting a nerf, because as is if you're building a melee character there's really no min/max reason to play a fighter, ranger, rogue, melee cleric, melee FVS or monk. Other than taking a handful of levels for splashing of course. You could possibly argue rogue.

And yes, right now heavy armor > evasion on a melee character. For sure.

unbongwah
05-22-2015, 10:49 AM
I want to make a self healing melee character, so I'll probably end up as a Bladeforged just so that I can get Reconstruct for free.

That means I'll have at least some Paladin levels since I'm too cheap to dump them with an LR. I have loved running around with Evasion, but I've heard good things about heavy armor recently.
For Bladeforged melee, there's very little reason not to stick with pally: either pure for one of the capstones or MCed for extra feats etc. You want at least 14 or 15 pally for access to Holy Sword and possibly Zeal; beyond that it's open, depending on what class(es) you want to add. The only downsides to BF are (A) you have to start LG w/pal @ lvl 1, which precludes the alignment-restricted classes (i.e., barb, bard, or druid) without paying a lot for an alignment change & LR +Xs to switch; and (B) -2 base DEX makes it a bit harder to hit stat pre-reqs if you want a TWF or ranged build.

I hate to admit that I'm *this* far out of the loop, but Barbs are self healing now?
All three PrEs now provide self-healing at Tier-5. The general forum consensus is T5 Ravager provides the best mix of DPS+heals (Crit Rage+Blood Strength); but all of them are viable, IMHO. The downside is you don't get self-heals before lvl 12, so you rely on pots or hires same as we always did.

Jsbeer
05-22-2015, 10:56 AM
I think pure Paladin is the best choice because it has excellent DPS, is very resilient with excellent HP and superb saves AND the Past Life is IMO the best for a melee. With no hand-me-downs on a new server I managed to Elite Streak to 20, and Hard streak after that... (Disclaimer: Quest farming and Hard Streaking to 20 is probably considerably better XP/min until you get good TR gear, but I try to avoid repeating quests.)

Having said that I used 'The Count of Monte Cristo guide' (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443235-The-Count-of-Monte-Cristo-dps-CC-survivability-focused-pure-swashbuckler) for a pure bard and found it contributed FAR more to a group (which is, um, not really that surprising for a buffer, sorry leader, class), and with CAREFUL play was almost as good solo with the biggest issue being saves if soloing in Epics.

Bluegirl_Two
05-22-2015, 11:11 AM
Is there currently a flavor of the month that doesn't require enormous investment into crazy obscure gear and has both good survivability as well as good DPS? What melee character breakdown would you recommend to a player who won't end up putting a lot of time in and just wants to enjoy the ride back to 20 and then back through epics again?

A few things first: do you solo most of the time or are you usually running in groups, are you intent on reaching epic level cap or are you wanting to cap an epic destiny and then reincarnate, are you stuck on traditional melee classes (barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin) or are you open to other classes?

If you solo most of the time then both paladin and bard offer advantages. Both come with inherent self healing although paladins get some of it from L1 while bards have to wait a bit. If you group a lot you might want to consider rogue.

If you are going to epic level cap (L28) then you can run iconics. If you are just looking to cap a destiny then you should avoid iconics so you can reincarnate sooner. Another thing about going to epic cap is that you should then consider barbarian. As others pointed out, barbarian enhancements plus epic destiny choices make a powerful self-healing capable character. But, if you are not going to epic cap you probably want to stick with paladin or bard.

If you are stuck on traditional melee classes then paladin and barbarian are your best options. If you are not stuck on traditional melee classes then bard provides a great option.

As you can see, the three best melee choice that also provide self healing are barbarian, bard and paladin. Rogue players might argue against that analysis. They will point out that with UMD rogues can be self healing too.

I would counter that it takes a while to get UMD high enough and you still have to run around with a stack of heal scrolls.

One alternative that I am enjoying is bladeforged rogue mechanic. I don't think it will be a good solution for you because it is not a melee character. I also have not reached L20 yet so I'm not sure how powerful the capstone enhancement is. I don't know if bladeforged paladin 1/rogue 19 (or 2/18) will have as much healing. The way I'm running the character I used a +1 LR to drop the paladin level.

I am presently using a great crossbow and am finding that it does not one shot mobs. More like 2 to 3 shots unless I get a crit. For crowd control when things get a bit out of hand I am using Time Bomb. It is extremely effective in heroic content -- although there has been some talk on the forums that it isn't as powerful on epics. With the inherent reconstruct and a supply of repair potions I'm currently not experiencing any real feeling of risk with the character.

I am very partial to bard as a melee character due to the Swashbuckler enhancement line. If I were only planning to run up to L20 and reincarnate I would probably run a bard 18/rogue 2. I'd likely do that if I were only running enough epics to max out an ED and then reincarnate as well. My only completionist uses this build with Shadar-kai and is currently L25 (again).

If I were planning to run to L28 I would run fighter 4/paladin 15/rogue 1. Paladin 15 gets the two key spells Zeal and Holy Sword. Fighter 4 gets 3 additional feats. Rogue 1 gives full trap capability at least through heroic content and in a lot of epic content as well. It is a good self contained soloing build for everything up to epic hard and is not ED dependent. That makes it easy to work in an ED and gain levels without fearing that the character is at risk all of the time. My only currently level capped character uses this build and is currently running in Magister, about to jump over to Draconic.

I do have a low level barbarian and heroic content has been pretty easy. But, I'm a bit away from being able to see any of the self healing.

So, my recommendation would be Swashbuckler bard, paladin, or Mechanic rogue using bladeforged. The obvious caveat is that the rogue will be ranged and not melee.

lilleengen2
05-22-2015, 02:04 PM
Both Paladin and Barbarian are tons of fun!

My main is a halfling TWF paladin (would be better as human) and was a riot to level. Then again he had tons of twink-gear and with his PRR/MRR, LoH x4 per rest was more than enough to keep me going (with some cure spells here and there) for heroics.. Now going Bladeforged would make it even more of a riot with the Reconstruct SLA. It's a good bet! For Heroics, T5 Holy Retribution is silly OP. I was running through Vale quests and instakilled anything evil around me in one big swhoop.

My secondary character is a human barbarian. Rolled him up, first life and all, few nice twink pieces. To be honest, he was just as fun to level and plowed through quests with ease. Cleave + G-Cleave + Supreme Cleave you'll kill anything before it gets to you.. And with the Heal Amp (Mysterious Bracers helps for heroics, even them ml7 gives a nifty bonus) potions to supplements between combat isn't half-bad and gives you some decent recovery. Bear in mind, I usually solo or short-man with guildies, so the 'Heal on Kill' procs a bit more for me than someone who PUGs a lot with full groups etc.. Unless you got Sprint Boost! :D

Both are great options as others have already said. They are powerful classes and pretty straight forward to build! But most importantly, again; they are tons of fun to play!

This is just my personal experience, but I hope it's helpful to you. Good luck!

Buffyanne
05-23-2015, 03:21 PM
. The devs overshot the ravager self-healing especially, and have admitted so themselves.

Not true




I believe DDO would benefit immensely from Holy Sword and Barb self-healing getting a nerf, because as is if you're building a melee character there's really no min/max reason to play a fighter, ranger, rogue, melee cleric, melee FVS or monk. Other than taking a handful of levels for splashing of course. You could possibly argue rogue.

And yes, right now heavy armor > evasion on a melee character. For sure.

No one is interested in your call for nerfs in a player build thread.

axel15810
05-23-2015, 04:24 PM
Not true

You sure?




~ For Barbarians the Ravager heal is probably too strong and the overall extra damage is probably too good for TWF barbarians. We are seeing some impressive numbers from builds using TWF to take advantage of all the barbarian damage bonuses. This is my fault as well because, to be honest, I let myself be talked by the community into some over-buffing.

Note that even though we talk about some abilities over performing we have not planned any nerfs to Paladin or Barbarian other than the armor changes. We probably want to see how these builds perform in the harder Temple of Elemental Evil hard and elite modes before we talk about further balancing. One of the reasons we avoid frank discussions about power balancing is we don't want players to get stressed about potential nerfs when we aren't planning them.

Sev~



No one is interested in your call for nerfs in a player build thread.

Since the subject of the classes being OP was already being brought up in this thread by previous posters, I see nothing wrong with my comment.

Buffyanne
05-23-2015, 04:29 PM
"Probably" is not "Yes". Furthermore my interpretation of Sev's statement is that it was meant to placate whiners who keep calling for nerfs and want to ruin other players fun. He specifically states no nerfs are planned so the classes are clearly working as intended.

mikarddo
05-23-2015, 05:08 PM
"Probably" is not "Yes". Furthermore my interpretation of Sev's statement is that it was meant to placate whiners who keep calling for nerfs and want to ruin other players fun. He specifically states no nerfs are planned so the classes are clearly working as intended.

That nerfs are not planned very much does not equal that classes are working as intended - thats not a logical conclusion but instead a conclusion you seem to make because you wish it to be so.

Your view that nerfs are never a good idea is a view I disagree with. Sometimes nerfs are the only real answer.

Buffyanne
05-23-2015, 05:25 PM
Your view that nerfs are never a good idea is a view I disagree with. Sometimes nerfs are the only real answer.

You may disagree with it but that doesn't make it any less true. All nerfs do is ruin the game. They certainly ruin the class/item/effect. Some examples...

Nerfing EiN, QP and years of proxy nerfing the monk class have made it virtually unplayable in epics.

Nerfing Vorpals ruined the ability. Everyone used to love a vorpal sword in PnP, but they are worthless in epics.

Nightmare effect - nerfing it ruined the ability

Nightmare bastard sword - nerfing ruined it

Xachoisian ear dweller - nerf to the effect made the item virtually worthless to casters, really only helpful on paladins who want to heal now.

Wounding of puncturing - nerf to this ruined the playstyle and led down the slope of pure DPS is the only way and huge sacks of HP mobs

I guess you could argue at the time the nerfs to Wall of Fire and Wail were OK because casters were so much better than melee but today I would repeal those nerfs so in the long run they didn't turn out to be a good idea.

Avocado
05-23-2015, 06:49 PM
pure pally and done xD

This. S&B all the way. Amazo dps, healing and defenses.

AbyssalMage
05-23-2015, 08:50 PM
.... or 15Bard/3Fit/2Rog, IMO.

Hazyone
Where is this build. I keep seeing people mention it (me included /sheepish grin) yet I see no posts about it. I do see a **** ton of players playing them in game though. Anyone ever done a basic breakdown of the build in a character builder and posted it?

Yes, I have seen the PDK, but I have been seeing more and more human builds lately.

unbongwah
05-23-2015, 10:32 PM
Where is this build. I keep seeing people mention it (me included /sheepish grin) yet I see no posts about it.
There are several in the bard forums to choose from, but here are a couple to get you started:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/459261-Shadow-Bard-INT-Based-Shadar-Kai
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/459395-A-Tale-of-2-Vanguards-INT-Based-Swashbuckler-and-CHA-STR-Based-WarChanter

The gist of these builds is always the same:

Bard 15 for Inspire Heroics & Inspire Excellence, ftr 3 for 2 feats & defensive stance (possibly Kensei & Vanguard bonuses as well), rog 2 for Evasion & trap skills
Feats: SWF x3, Shield Mastery & ISM, Improved Crit:<melee>, Precision (presuming T5 Swashbuckler for Thread the Needle + Exploit Weakness), Overwhelming Crit, Inspire Excellence - leaves 2 or 3 heroic (depending on race) and 1 epic feat to play with


And for comparison:
pure bard: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443235-The-Count-of-Monte-Cristo-dps-CC-survivability-focused-pure-swashbuckler
bard 18 / rog 2: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/459103-Bard-Trapper-for-new-players
bard 12 / ftr 6 / rog 2: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/444545-The-dwarven-defender-parody

AbyssalMage
05-24-2015, 02:17 AM
There are several in the bard forums to choose from, but here are a couple to get you started:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/459261-Shadow-Bard-INT-Based-Shadar-Kai
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/459395-A-Tale-of-2-Vanguards-INT-Based-Swashbuckler-and-CHA-STR-Based-WarChanter

The gist of these builds is always the same:

Bard 15 for Inspire Heroics & Inspire Excellence, ftr 3 for 2 feats & defensive stance (possibly Kensei & Vanguard bonuses as well), rog 2 for Evasion & trap skills
Feats: SWF x3, Shield Mastery & ISM, Improved Crit:<melee>, Precision (presuming T5 Swashbuckler for Thread the Needle + Exploit Weakness), Overwhelming Crit, Inspire Excellence - leaves 2 or 3 heroic (depending on race) and 1 epic feat to play with


Thanks, I guess I need to look better :)
Very interesting choices. I like Multi-classing (vs. pure) so decisions, decisions...