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View Full Version : The Rolling Storm [Ranger Enhancement Tree]



Questdoer
05-11-2015, 06:40 PM
See The Rolling Storm Enhancement Tree V2.0
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/461303-The-Rolling-Storm-Enhancement-Tree-V2-0

*******************************
Well... I had some free time...
And this is what I did with it!
Thoughts? Opinions?

http://i60.tinypic.com/4se9ar.jpg
Core
http://i58.tinypic.com/j7c12h.png
T1
http://i61.tinypic.com/23lauc.png
T2
http://i57.tinypic.com/296bqcw.png
T3
http://i58.tinypic.com/34ywuft.png
T4
http://i61.tinypic.com/68ftqv.png
T5
http://i61.tinypic.com/6nyp8x.png

MXs-Rook
05-12-2015, 12:59 AM
Hey, some really cool ideas there! The graphics are great too!

UurlockYgmeov
05-12-2015, 02:27 AM
+1 impressive effort.

Arkai
05-12-2015, 05:03 AM
I think of this plus shiradi ED stuff and bingo (: crazy, crazy thing.

Nice work, mate.

General_Gronker
05-12-2015, 06:47 AM
It's a lovely mock up with some decent ideas, but as a Ranger tree, it's terrible. Could be mined for some good Halfling tree ideas.

Questdoer
05-12-2015, 08:05 AM
It's a lovely mock up with some decent ideas, but as a Ranger tree, it's terrible. Could be mined for some good Halfling tree ideas.

What's wrong with it being a Ranger tree?

Kawai
05-12-2015, 08:31 AM
+1 Graphics.
+1 Time Consumed creating
-1 content

+1 overall. :)

Fedora1
05-12-2015, 09:10 AM
In what version of D&D are rangers masters of throwing weapons?

I thought it was bows and/or tempests (TWF). Never heard of a ranger in D&D being any better with throwing weapons than anyone else.

Vargouille
05-12-2015, 10:04 AM
Some neat stuff here!

ForgettableNPC
05-12-2015, 10:24 AM
Now if we could only have more than 80 Action Points to spend...

Also, I am disappoint that there is no two Enhancements named: "You Brought Down the Thunder..." and "...Now Reap the Whirlwind"

Other than that, neat! I like the whole color scheme as well as the unique effects.

Tyrande
05-12-2015, 10:30 AM
+1 effort and graphics.

It seems this tree makes heavy usage of the Improvise ability to create non returning darts (bolts) and non returning daggers (arrows). I guess it has synergy with the AA tree, half-ling tree, and Swashbuckler tree, and even ninja tree.

Question for you though: wouldn't some of these fit in the half-ling tree and ninja-spy (monk) tree?

Unless you are talking about a new class? 3.5e Knife Thrower (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Knife_Thrower_%283.5e_Class%29)

Seikojin
05-12-2015, 10:53 AM
Pretty solid. Here are big flags against it in my mind:
Capstone gives +6 total stat. This should be +4 total at best.
Weapon of the storm should cap the Mana you get to match the 12 that you get from Mana regen feats. No cap mean infinite mana splashers.
Spectacular Secondary is too strong as a t5. It should be in the core as the lvl 18 or the capstone.

Everything else isn't too OP and would offer a lot of flavor for throwing.

Thar
05-12-2015, 11:05 AM
some good ideas.

capstone is a little weak.

the vorpal effect is a step in the right direction for scaling but not enough for end game.

I could see this explioted into a ranger/bard or pally halfling build. which would be interesting.

dunklezhan
05-12-2015, 12:55 PM
I haven't look through all of it in detail yet, but my first impression is that some abilities are slightly too powerful (e.g. doing damage even on a miss) but I really appreciate the intent of the tree, and I think much of it is really excellent.

In particular I'd like to single out:That One Lucky Hit

Now that you've gone and suggested it, I can see that tying this kind of effect to character power in some granular way is how they should have done the 'immune to instakill' thresholds in the first place. I much prefer the idea of the effect itself being tied to level in some way.

Devs, if you take nothing else away from this thread, please take that!

Mob HP on heroic elite hard and epic in general are inflated enough that the thresholds would still apply occasionally but less than they do now, which is good, because those effects should work the vast majority of the time (I still don't really understand why the thresholds were needed in the first place when they changed the effects). Heroic elite and epic are the only things the thresholds were actually intended to have any noticeable affect on anyway, and this would let the Devs fine tune the effect some more.

If you did a pass on the lootgen vorpal/disruption etc effects so that they were tied in the same way but to weapon ML instead of character level then this would be ideal - the higher the ML of the weapon with the effect, the more mobs the effect will work on without whittling them down first (e.g. weapon MLx200 or 100 or whatever, to see if it's above/below the threshold, meaning higher ML vorpal/disrupting etc weapons are automatically better without suddenly switching to a whole new 'improved' effect).

I much prefer this kind of granularity for passive effects than the current "does xDC with yThreshold" at one level and then upscaling both of those suddenly several levels later, yet still finding the effect more or less obsolete a few levels after that. If you tied it to Character or class level for enhancement abilities (as you wish for pure/multi balancing) or ML for weapon drops... Gods that would be so much better.

I would prefer in general the simple removing of threshold HP for anything that requires a DC/save, mind you. I've always hated that in PnP let alone DDO. Sleep should just flamin' well work on a failed save for heaven's sake, wizards shouldn't be having to guess at HD values!

Ahem. May have deviated from topic there a tad. Suffice to say that since thresholds seem to be staying, then I think the way the OP has set it up is way less arbitrary than they are currently in game.

Anyway. Much of the above does not relate to the idea of a new Ranger Tree.

My feedback on the actual topic at hand is:

- Looks good. I like the concept of the tree very much. Some of it is, if not OP, certainly pushing that way. But by no means most of it in my view (at least for a casual like me), and I would certainly play this ranger.

- That Lucky Hit is game-changingly-excellent - by which I mean it probably shouldn't be allowed on it's own. They should change all the other existing instakill-on-hit type effects at the same time. I'm not sure why you didn't just have it 'on vorpal strike that is a confirmed crit' if you didn't like the idea of a 5% chance from a pure 'vorpal'. Maybe you thought even that would still be too high a proc rate? Fair enough I guess, judgement call.

Artagon
05-12-2015, 02:44 PM
First, I'd move this away from being a ranger tree. I'd make it classless, like harper. This would mean that any abilities that are ranger level based would likely need to be changed to character levels and reduced in initial power. Ex: Manytoss would probably need to be changed to 50% + 10% per character level. That way you start out higher (more like Manyshot), and end at 350%.

Second, 'Weapons of the Storm' is a bit too powerful for SP gain imho. You'd need to limit it to gaining some (some specific amount more than 1 sp) once per second, otherwise a thrower with improved precise shot could full potentially restore SP in a few well placed throws.

bsquishwizzy
05-12-2015, 04:50 PM
I think a dedicated thrower PrE is a great idea. And I like how it was conceived.

Monkey-Boy
05-12-2015, 05:18 PM
Some neat stuff here!

If you intend on wasting the ranger pass on this silliness please let me know now so I can cancel my sub.

Questdoer
05-13-2015, 08:00 AM
+1 effort and graphics.

It seems this tree makes heavy usage of the Improvise ability to create non returning darts (bolts) and non returning daggers (arrows). I guess it has synergy with the AA tree, half-ling tree, and Swashbuckler tree, and even ninja tree.

Question for you though: wouldn't some of these fit in the half-ling tree and ninja-spy (monk) tree?

Unless you are talking about a new class? 3.5e Knife Thrower (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Knife_Thrower_%283.5e_Class%29)

Well yes, some of this stuff could fit into the halfling and/or ninja-spy trees, but there are many enhancements that could (and even do) fit into other trees.

Also for this to be a new class it would need far more then just this one enhancements tree :P

Questdoer
05-13-2015, 08:09 AM
Ah... this is the kind of feedback I like, TYVM! ^.^


Pretty solid. Here are big flags against it in my mind:
Capstone gives +6 total stat. This should be +4 total at best.
Weapon of the storm should cap the Mana you get to match the 12 that you get from Mana regen feats. No cap mean infinite mana splashers.
Spectacular Secondary is too strong as a t5. It should be in the core as the lvl 18 or the capstone.

Everything else isn't too OP and would offer a lot of flavor for throwing.

Some people think that the capstone is too weak, but that might just be because it's not very flashy.
Not sure what I should do here :L

A mana cap might work... or maybe I should just change it to something else... I don't know yet.

Spectacular Secondary can not be in the core line.
It's requirements are too heavy, if I put it there then a lot of people would be unable to get their capstone.

Questdoer
05-13-2015, 08:17 AM
*Snip* (TY though :)

My feedback on the actual topic at hand is:

- Looks good. I like the concept of the tree very much. Some of it is, if not OP, certainly pushing that way. But by no means most of it in my view (at least for a casual like me), and I would certainly play this ranger.

- That Lucky Hit is game-changingly-excellent - by which I mean it probably shouldn't be allowed on it's own. They should change all the other existing instakill-on-hit type effects at the same time. I'm not sure why you didn't just have it 'on vorpal strike that is a confirmed crit' if you didn't like the idea of a 5% chance from a pure 'vorpal'. Maybe you thought even that would still be too high a proc rate? Fair enough I guess, judgement call.

What do you think is pushing OP?
I need specifics.

Well you see... that one lucky hit is a no save instakill.
5% is WAY too much for something like that especially with the speed at witch you would be attacking, and the topsy turvy + make em dance combo.
0.5% to 1% is more in line with what I was after.

Questdoer
05-13-2015, 08:22 AM
First, I'd move this away from being a ranger tree. I'd make it classless, like harper. This would mean that any abilities that are ranger level based would likely need to be changed to character levels and reduced in initial power. Ex: Manytoss would probably need to be changed to 50% + 10% per character level. That way you start out higher (more like Manyshot), and end at 350%.

Second, 'Weapons of the Storm' is a bit too powerful for SP gain imho. You'd need to limit it to gaining some (some specific amount more than 1 sp) once per second, otherwise a thrower with improved precise shot could full potentially restore SP in a few well placed throws.

That could work... but I would have to do some MAJOR rebalancing to get it in line with something that anyone and everyone can use.

Ya... I see your point.

TheGuyYouKnow
05-13-2015, 11:16 AM
to be completely honest i dislike this as a ranger tree (as said before it would fit better as a halfling tree) and nearly everything within the tree is only useful for thrower builds unlike other trees which have abilities that can be useful to a variety of builds.

a lot of the the ideas behind the abilities are good and are something i have wanted in ddo for a while such as 'that one lucky hit' for all vorpal effects and 'snap focus' for shot on the run

nat_1
05-13-2015, 09:04 PM
I like what you did. Anybody getting hung up on the balance of it needs to chill and just enjoy the direction this can take your imagination.

It needs an ability that catches projectiles out of the air and throws them back at the enemy.

bsquishwizzy
05-15-2015, 09:47 AM
to be completely honest i dislike this as a ranger tree (as said before it would fit better as a halfling tree) and nearly everything within the tree is only useful for thrower builds unlike other trees which have abilities that can be useful to a variety of builds.

a lot of the the ideas behind the abilities are good and are something i have wanted in ddo for a while such as 'that one lucky hit' for all vorpal effects and 'snap focus' for shot on the run


Only one racial tree exists in the game. Having a second "Halfling" tree isn't going to happen.

You could, alternatively, make this a Rouge tree as that would be the most flavor-compatible to this type of build. But, to be honest, placing it in Ranger makes WAY more sense than any other class.

bsquishwizzy
05-15-2015, 09:50 AM
You know, going with the “Woodsman” / “Huntsman” theme here – maybe take a look at incorporating axe / dagger / shortsword / shortbow proficiency in here? Because flavor-wise, THAT kind of thing works with the Ranger class.

Fedora1
05-16-2015, 01:46 PM
But, to be honest, placing it in Ranger makes WAY more sense than any other class.

Totally disagree. I'm not familiar with all the versions of D&D out there, but never heard of one where a ranger is any MORE proficient with throwing weapons than anyone else. If you're going to do throwing weapons, I'd think more of monks or rogues than rangers. Rangers have always been bows/tempests.


You know, going with the “Woodsman” / “Huntsman” theme here – maybe take a look at incorporating axe / dagger / shortsword / shortbow proficiency in here? Because flavor-wise, THAT kind of thing works with the Ranger class.

Rangers are already proficient with all those weapons.

Bannith
05-20-2015, 05:02 PM
I like the woodsman style idea i can see this being a ranger tree more than any other. Base it on axes and such makes a more unique thrower limits class combos but some of the stuff I read in there seems to anyways. And who doesn't wanna be an axe throwing woodsman/huntsman? Maybe add in a spell to conjure unbound throwing axes? like the arti spell and flaming arrows?
Gotta split em down the middle with an axe to the face!

SealedInSong
06-10-2015, 02:01 PM
I love the ideas in here, and of course the execution is visually wonderful.

Really quality work.

One thing that jumps out to me is that the capstone doesn't seem very powerful. It looks appropriate for the enhancement pass, but not the monster-creating paladin/bard/barbarian class revisiting :]

Questdoer
06-10-2015, 07:00 PM
I love the ideas in here, and of course the execution is visually wonderful.

Really quality work.

One thing that jumps out to me is that the capstone doesn't seem very powerful. It looks appropriate for the enhancement pass, but not the monster-creating paladin/bard/barbarian class revisiting :]

Is this comment directed at version 1 or 2?
Cause I think that the V2.0 capstone is sufficient.

Questdoer
04-14-2017, 09:03 AM
First off, sorry for the thread revival is just... dang...

Some neat stuff here!
That moment when you realize that your thread from over 2 years ago had a visit from a dev and you didn't even notice! :eek: