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Failedlegend
04-24-2015, 03:15 AM
So with the Devs going over several classes and enhancement trees one that I believe really needs some help despite being fairly recent.

Now whilst there's ALOT of issues with EK I believe the first issue is adding it to both Wizard and Sorc as their far more different from each other than you'd think especially when you integrate their prestige trees so I really think the prestige needs to split in too whilst still being a Melee+Arcane mix...I also think neither shold have a Sword & Board focus...it doesn't fit thematically or Mechanically.

Anyways here's what I have so far..I'm quite open to suggestion but please keep on topic (especially the names...I suck at naming things)




Swiftblade (Wizard)


Cores
Core 1: +1 USP per point spent in tree, +1% Double Strike per core, Eldritch Strike (same as live except cooldown is 5 secs)
Core 3: Lesser Swift Surge (+5% AC, +2 Reflex, +1d6 Force DmG scales w/ Spellpower)
Core 6: Greater Swift Surge (+10% AC, +4 Reflex, +2d6 Force DmG scales w/ Spellpower)
Core 12: Ultimate Swift Surge (+20% AC, +8 Reflex,+3d6 Force DmG scales w/ Spellpower)
Core 18: Swift Strikes (Grants GTWF) *It's impossible for a Wizard to take GTWF*
Core 20: Haste Master (+2 Int/Dex, Haste cast becomes Undispelable & Lasts until rest *for you only*)


Note: Swift Surge only applies when under the effects of haste and whilst wearing light or no armor

Tier 1
Ability 1: Quick Wit: +1 Concentration, Spellcraft, Spot
Ability 2: Speed Force: +x Force Spellpower
Ability 3: Force Crit: +2% Force Crit
Ability 4: Haste Boost *Not a fan of Action boosts but I know others love em*
Ability 5: Uncanny Dodger: +1/2/3% Dodge.

Tier 2
Ability 1: Speed Training: Passive: You gain +2% doublestrike and proficiency with all One-handed melee weapons.
Ability 2: Speed Force: +x Force Spellpower
Ability 3: Force Crit: +x% Force Crit
Ability 4: Critical Perfection: Passive: +1/+2/+3 to critical confirm and Crit damage
Ability 5: Still Spell: Your Arcane Spell Failure from equipped armor and shields is reduced by 5%/10%/15%.

Tier 3
Ability 1: Blurred Alacrity: When under the effects of Haste you gain a 10%/20%/30% Concealment
Ability 2: Speed Force: +x Force Spellpower
Ability 3: Force Crit: +x% Force Crit
Ability 4: Masterful Strike: Int to Atk/Dmg
Ability 5: Int or Dex

Tier 4
Ability 1: Speed Drain: On Vorpal you apply a slow effect for x seconds
Ability 2: Speed Force: +x Force Spellpower
Ability 3: Force Crit: +x% Force Crit
Ability 4: Quick Step: Grants Mobility & Spring Attack
Ability 5: Int or Dex

Tier 5
Ability 1: Eldritch Tempest: Same as live except it only costs 2 AP and cooldown is reduce to 8 seocnds (about 40% longer than Great Cleave)
Ability 2: Arcane Reflexes: You now use your Int for reflex instead of dex
Ability 3: Diligent Rapidity: Due to your sheer speed no magical or mundane obstacles can affect you (basically permanrnt Feedom of movement)
Ability 4: Improved Haste: Haste Toggle except +50% Run Speed/+30% Attack Speed
Ability 5: Extend Master: Doubles the effect of Extend.




Rage Mage (Sorcerer)

Cores
Core 1: Arcane Rage: Active ability +2Str/Con duration is based on charisma, +1 HP per pt in tree
Core 3: Lesser Zen Rage: You can now cast spells whilst Raging with a 50% ASF
Core 6: Greater Zen Rage: Rage ASF is redcuced to 20% ASF
Core 12: Ultimate Zen Rage: Raging no longer causes ASF
Core 18: ?Name?: Grants GTHF *It's impossible for a Sorc to take GTHF*
Core 20: Eldritch Warrior: +2Str/Con, +10 Melee Power

Tier 1
Ability 1: Toughness: +5/+10/+15 maximum Hit Points
Ability 2: Item Defense: You have a 25%/50%/75% chance to negate potential item wear.
Ability 3: Battlemage: +1/+2/+3 Concentration, Intimidate, and Spellcraft
Ability 4: Wand and Scroll Mastery: as now (mainly to give Sorc access to it)
Ability 5: ???

Tier 2
Ability 1: Medium Armor Proficiency: You gain proficiency in Medium Armor, and you no longer suffer ASF whilst wearing it
Ability 2: Zweihander Training: Passive: You gain +2% Melee Power and proficiency with all Two-handed melee weapons.
Ability 3: ???
Ability 4: ???
Ability 5: ???

Tier 3
Ability 1: Arcane Barrier: Passive: When your HP drop below 50% of maximum, you are immediately protected by an Arcane Barrier that reduces all incoming damage by 25% for the next 10/15/20 seconds. This effect may only trigger once every 120/90/60 seconds.
Ability 2: Arcane Resistance: Reduce all spell based damage by 20%
Ability 3: ???
Ability 4: Mind Games: Cha to Atk/DMG
Ability 5: Str, Con or Cha

Tier 4
Ability 1: Raging Focus: Whilst Raging your Concentration is doubled for the purposes of resisting have you spells interrupted
Ability 2: ???
Ability 3: ???
Ability 4: Master of Destruction: +1/2/3 CL/MCL with Evocation & Conjuration Spells
Ability 5: Str, Con or Cha

Tier 5
Ability 1: Eldritch Tempest: Same as live except it only costs 2 AP and cooldown is reduce to 8 seocnds (about 40% longer than Great Cleave)
Ability 2: Turbulent Mind: Other spellcasters find it hard to control you due to the mix of rage and natural spellpower flowing through your mind. Your Will save now relies on your Cha Mod,
Ability 3: Raging Ignorance: Your buffs cannot be dispelled whilst raging.
Ability 4: Improved Tenser's Transformation: Toggle: Except penalties are removed.
Ability 5: Eldritch Shield: Passive: Every six seconds you gain Temporary Hit Points equal to Cha Mod.

unbongwah
04-24-2015, 09:49 AM
Core 3: Lesser Swift Surge (+5% AC, +2 Reflex, +1d6 Force DmG scales w/ Spellpower)
Core 6: Greater Swift Surge (+10% AC, +4 Reflex, +2d6 Force DmG scales w/ Spellpower)
Core 12: Ultimate Swift Surge (+20% AC, +8 Reflex,+3d6 Force DmG scales w/ Spellpower)
I think you're going to have to add more here if you want Swift Surge to be relevant, like maybe +5% Combat Style bonus to atk speed per tier (so it doesn't stack w/Vanguard or SWF bonuses).

Core 18: Swift Strikes (Grants GTWF) *It's impossible for a Wizard to take GTWF*
Technically, that's not true: pure wiz (or sorc) can take GTWF at lvl 24. Sucks to have to wait that long, but that's what you get for trying to turn a pure arcane caster into a melee build. It's that or splash a couple of martial lvls: e.g., wiz 18 / ftr 2 with the 2nd ftr lvl at lvl 20 for BAB 11. Plus I'm not sure why you're defining Swiftblade as a TWF-centric style.

Core 20: Haste Master (+2 Int/Dex, Haste cast becomes Undispelable & Lasts until rest *for you only*)
I think a simpler solution is simply, "you are granted the Blinding Speed feat." Which is really just a convenience perk and not a worthy capstone, IMHO, but that's another issue. Evasion would be a better capstone, IMHO, particularly if Swift Surge will be restricted to lt armor (similar to Swashbuckler).

Tier 2

Ability 1: Speed Training: Passive: You gain +2% doublestrike and proficiency with all One-handed melee weapons.
Are you including exotic weapons? If you aren't, then it's a pointless perk on a build which can self-cast Master's Touch; but if you are, expect to see a lot of wiz 2 splashes for Haste Boost + free exotic weapon profs.

Tier 3
Ability 1: Blurred Alacrity: When under the effects of Haste you gain a 10%/20%/30% Concealment
Thematically interesting, but on a class which can self-buff w/Displacement, also kinda pointless. I would suggest making it 5/10/15% Incorporeality, except again, expect to see a lot of splashes just to get that.

Tier 4
Ability 1: Speed Drain: On Vorpal you apply a slow effect for x seconds
I've never seen anyone suggest that Slowburst was a worthwhile weapon effect and that procs on crits; so I can't imagine doing the same thing only on vorpals is going to be seen much of a perk.

Ability 4: Quick Step: Grants Mobility & Spring Attack
It's probably OP to grant both feats with one enhancement. Maybe add an Imp Dodge / Mobility line to the PrE, similar to Tempest.


Ability 4: Improved Haste: Haste Toggle except +50% Run Speed/+30% Attack Speed
I'd love to have this, but probably OP as well, since you're doubling atk speed bonus from Haste. 20% Alacrity is probably more reasonable.

Honestly, though, I'm trying to figure out how you would balance this so you don't just end up with a bunch of pal 15 / wiz 5 builds running around. I mean, I already have one, so I couldn't mind the boost, but a PrE overhaul should mean more than just a new FotM, IMHO. ;)

Failedlegend
04-24-2015, 10:09 PM
I think you're going to have to add more here if you want Swift Surge to be relevant, like maybe +5% Combat Style bonus to atk speed per tier (so it doesn't stack w/Vanguard or SWF bonuses).

Technically, that's not true: pure wiz (or sorc) can take GTWF at lvl 24. Sucks to have to wait that long, but that's what you get for trying to turn a pure arcane caster into a melee build. It's that or splash a couple of martial lvls: e.g., wiz 18 / ftr 2 with the 2nd ftr lvl at lvl 20 for BAB 11. Plus I'm not sure why you're defining Swiftblade as a TWF-centric style.


I was actually envisioning it to be primarily SWF or TWF...Wizards can easily get the balance requirement but not the BAB as for getting GTWF @ 24, I'm of the belief that Heroic enhancements should no require Epic abilities to function and as far as I'm concerned not having GTWF is not an option.

Anyways adding the combat speed boost would null SWF as an option and the tree already gets faster attack speed from improved haste and haste boost and the devs have already said there's a speed cap which is why I included some Double Strike but I'd be open to suggestion as to how to improved the swift surge cores.




I think a simpler solution is simply, "you are granted the Blinding Speed feat." Which is really just a convenience perk and not a worthy capstone, IMHO, but that's another issue.

I'd be fine with that as long as Blinding Speed procs the prestige extra effects



Are you including exotic weapons? If you aren't, then it's a pointless perk on a build which can self-cast Master's Touch; but if you are, expect to see a lot of wiz 2 splashes for Haste Boost + free exotic weapon profs.

1. I find keep M-Touch up is a huge PITA
2. Yes the plan was to include exotics...its not uncommon in enhancement trees
3. You can already get that with 1 lvl of fighter



Thematically interesting, but on a class which can self-buff w/Displacement, also kinda pointless. I would suggest making it 5/10/15% Incorporeality, except again, expect to see a lot of splashes just to get that.


Maybe an improved displacement sla? same effect longer duration



I've never seen anyone suggest that Slowburst was a worthwhile weapon effect and that procs on crits; so I can't imagine doing the same thing only on vorpals is going to be seen much of a perk.

Limbchopper is one of my favorite weapon effects...I mean it slows enemy attack speed how is that not awesome.



It's probably OP to grant both feats with one enhancement. Maybe add an Imp Dodge / Mobility line to the PrE, similar to Tempest.

I'd be fine with a enhancemtn or three that make the D/M/SA line more appealing



I'd love to have this, but probably OP as well, since you're doubling atk speed bonus from Haste. 20% Alacrity is probably more reasonable.

I suck at numbers so I'm ALWAYS open to suggestion on that.



Honestly, though, I'm trying to figure out how you would balance this so you don't just end up with a bunch of pal 15 / wiz 5 builds running around. I mean, I already have one, so I couldn't mind the boost, but a PrE overhaul should mean more than just a new FotM, IMHO. ;)

Honestly I this mainly with the goal that it doesn't require multi-classing to function (as much as I love MLing it should never be FORCED...synergies like One with the Blade are definately ok though) but yeah a little numbers tweaking and ability moving might be in order (Not that synergistic builds are a bad thing)

fmalfeas
04-25-2015, 04:51 AM
I think when it comes to EK, it's the perfect time to embrace 5e's stated thing that if you liked something from an old edition, it's fine to modify and use it in current. What I'm talking about is, at least for wizards, redoing the EK tree as inspired by the old Wizard Kit - Militant Wizard. The big thing about militant wizards is that they got proficiency in a real weapon, instead of wizzy weaps, and could even use them for touch spells. Not a 1d6 damage imbue, but rather they could do things like cast Vampiric Touch, focused on their weapon, and then attack you with it. The spell would linger for a few rounds, or until they connected, and it discharged to standard effect. They had a downside in that they had a excluded school of magic much like a specialist wizard did, but DDO hasn't really bothered with that kind of thing before, and it doesn't seem appropriate anyway.

I'd say that their 'core' abilities would actually be basically metamagic feats. Each one could only affect a single spell at a time. Since DDO doesn't really do 'touch' either, the limiter might become 'single target'. You couldn't hotbar them, you'd have to do the right-click menu for them. Once flagged as a Militant spell, it becomes a toggle. Hit it, and it imbues your weapon. You would get a slowdown in attack rate (not as big as getting Slowed, at all) which could be mitigated by enhancements in the tree, but every time you hit, the spell goes off (costing you SP every time, so going militant dual-wield with empowered, maximized, Polar Ray would empty you out in a matter of moments. Better off either not boosting it, or even using something like Shocking Grasp, which is dirt cheap, and can reach some nasty damage for it's level.)

In the tree you'd have things like reducing the metamagic cost of turning a spell militant, reducing or eliminating the attack speed penalty of a militant spell being active, perhaps opening up other types of spell (like rays - death spells - and at high tier, AoEs like Meteor Swarm, Delayed Blast Fireball, Ball Lightning). Also, instead of things like the EK's shield and mage armor boost, you'd find things like 'gain MRR = to 10% of your total Concealment' and 'When Hasted, gain dodge equal to half your caster level.' Things where the militant wizard isn't adding permanent buffs to themselves, instead they're refining the martial applications of their magic. They wouldn't really be sitting on DC boosts like a PM or AM, except /maybe/ DC boosts if a spell is in militant mode.

Capstone would be simple. Can have two militant toggles on at once...but there's no special discount on doing it. Save it for full-burning that big scary boss that has to die yesterday, because you're gonna be out of juice in no time flat. Sure, every swing of that sword is firing off a DFB and a Ball Lightning, with all your spellpower and spell crit behind them. But you're also paying 50+ sp /per swing/. Think how fast even a wizzy can swing a sword at 20+, especially with Tenser's running. Figure out how many seconds you could keep that up before it's shrine or pot time. But for that brief, glorious moment, you're a scourge upon the battlefield, sweeping the hordes away with ease. Then you run out of juice and you're in a world of hurt. ;)

You'd have to constantly be considering how much juice you need to commit to burning, how much you can afford to commit to burn based on resources/shrines. You'd be judging that far more than any other wizard, and on top of it, you're /still/ a wizard, and may be lobbing normal fireballs as you close to engage, further taxing your SP.

I like the idea.