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varusso
04-10-2015, 07:32 AM
Hey there folks :)

Been gone for a couple of years, and I have a few questions to get back back up to speed. The toon I am playing right now is a PM/rogue. While I was gone, the enhancement trees were added, and there is alot of difference from the old system. For the most part I can slog my way through it and get back more or less to where I was before, but I need some advice on a couple of points.

(1) Used to be Wiz and Sorc had enhancements to boost each elemental damage. I used to run as a fire/ice spec at low levels, alternating with an electric/ice spec at higher levels. I haven't looked at sorc yet, but it appears they have been removed from wiz tree -- or am I just blind?
(2) Are enhancement respecs free now? The interface is HUGE now, and I dont particularly care to "accidentally" reset everything and have to go through the whole thing again just to see. Are they still on timers or has that been removed?
(3) Are PM pets still garbage, or did the new interface come with an upgrade to their AI and usefulness in combat? I remember them getting stuck when they would target something too far away and stand there getting beat on until they died. And even with pet enhancements, they were ****.
(4) Is it just me or are the necrotic bolt and blast on longer cooldowns? I remember being able to alternate between the two almost immediately, but now I find myself button mashing for 2-3 seconds waiting for N.Blast's timer to refresh.
(5) I recall running around Vale alternating insta-kill spells on the Gnolls, using FOD and a second generic kill spell, but I can't for the life of me find that second kill spell in my list. It was a single target spell like FOD, but it had a lower chance of success (IIRC). Anyone out there know the spell I am talking about?

Go figure that the servers are down for a patch on a morning when I could have spent all day puttering around in the game trying to figure it all out again. Some things just never change :p

Thanks for responses; undoubtedly I will have more questions soon :D

unbongwah
04-10-2015, 10:47 AM
(1) Used to be Wiz and Sorc had enhancements to boost each elemental damage. I used to run as a fire/ice spec at low levels, alternating with an electric/ice spec at higher levels. I haven't looked at sorc yet, but it appears they have been removed from wiz tree -- or am I just blind?
Correct, the old Spellpower lines are gone; it's now mostly based on the total number of APs you spend in your PrEs. E.g., look at the first PM enh, Dark Reaping: "For each point spent in this tree you gain +0.75 Universal Spell Power and +0.75 Negative Energy Spell Power (for a total of 1.5 Negative Energy Spell Power per point spent)." So spending 44 APs in PM nets you +66 Universal Spellpower and an additional +66 Negative Energy Spellpower (132 total). There are still some specific Spellpower enhs: e.g., each Savant core enh adds +10 Spellpower to its primary element and -10 Spellpower to its opposing element.

(2) Are enhancement respecs free now? The interface is HUGE now, and I dont particularly care to "accidentally" reset everything and have to go through the whole thing again just to see. Are they still on timers or has that been removed?
The good news is they got rid of the reset timers; furthermore, you can reset & redo enhs in any public area (no need to go back to your class trainer to respec them) and you can reset your trees individually or all at once. The bad news is it still costs plat to reset enhs and the cost goes up each time you reset (though this hike decays over time).

(3) Are PM pets still garbage
Yup. :( Pets can be semi-useful for heroic leveling or for utility purposes (pulling levers, standing on pads, etc.); but the AI is still dumb and their power doesn't scale very well into epics.

(5) I recall running around Vale alternating insta-kill spells on the Gnolls, using FOD and a second generic kill spell, but I can't for the life of me find that second kill spell in my list. It was a single target spell like FOD, but it had a lower chance of success (IIRC). Anyone out there know the spell I am talking about?
Hmmm...there's Disintegrate and Horrid Writing, but they're not technically instakills. You might be thinking of Destruction (http://ddowiki.com/page/Destruction_%28spell%29); that's a divine spell, though, and their equivalent to FoD. Otherwise I'm drawing a blank...sorry!

Check out these threads for some good PM advice:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422622-Pale-Trapper-for-new-players-(Human-18-2-Wizard-Rogue)
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/405017-Pale-Master-Guide

Kylstrem
04-10-2015, 02:14 PM
Phantasmal Killer would have been the second Instakill spell in the Vale at that time.

varusso
04-10-2015, 03:06 PM
Correct, the old Spellpower lines are gone; it's now mostly based on the total number of APs you spend in your PrEs. E.g., look at the first PM enh, Dark Reaping: "For each point spent in this tree you gain +0.75 Universal Spell Power and +0.75 Negative Energy Spell Power (for a total of 1.5 Negative Energy Spell Power per point spent)." So spending 44 APs in PM nets you +66 Universal Spellpower and an additional +66 Negative Energy Spellpower (132 total). There are still some specific Spellpower enhs: e.g., each Savant core enh adds +10 Spellpower to its primary element and -10 Spellpower to its opposing element.

The good news is they got rid of the reset timers; furthermore, you can reset & redo enhs in any public area (no need to go back to your class trainer to respec them) and you can reset your trees individually or all at once. The bad news is it still costs plat to reset enhs and the cost goes up each time you reset (though this hike decays over time).

Yup. :( Pets can be semi-useful for heroic leveling or for utility purposes (pulling levers, standing on pads, etc.); but the AI is still dumb and their power doesn't scale very well into epics.

Hmmm...there's Disintegrate and Horrid Writing, but they're not technically instakills. You might be thinking of Destruction (http://ddowiki.com/page/Destruction_%28spell%29); that's a divine spell, though, and their equivalent to FoD. Otherwise I'm drawing a blank...sorry!

Check out these threads for some good PM advice:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422622-Pale-Trapper-for-new-players-(Human-18-2-Wizard-Rogue)
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/405017-Pale-Master-Guide

Thanks, very helpful :)


Phantasmal Killer would have been the second Instakill spell in the Vale at that time.

Yup that sounds right. Was it removed from the game? I didnt see it in my spell list and i know my PM had it.

Kylstrem
04-10-2015, 03:49 PM
Should still be in game.

Lonnbeimnech
04-10-2015, 03:55 PM
Thanks, very helpful :)



Yup that sounds right. Was it removed from the game? I didnt see it in my spell list and i know my PM had it.

also trap the soul. it would have lower chance of success since its conjuration.

and also power word kill, depending on how long you were gone, this was at one point useless then made useful though the cooldown is quite long.

and also banishment and dismissal, since you mentioned vale, lots of things there can be banished, though not gnolls.

Kylstrem
04-10-2015, 04:05 PM
When Vale was end content, I spent a lot of time out there with my wizard or sorc. Power Word Kill has a 5 minute cool down. And Trap the Soul required those damned shards as components.

It was constant Finger/PK combos... until I saw someone use Hold Monster and then killing them with W/P dagger/SS... then that got nerfed.

varusso
04-10-2015, 08:43 PM
It was PK I was looking for. The cooldowns on PK and FOD lined up almost perfectly when I ran through the gnoll village for the named mobs (2 years ago). I was fiddling around with the Mass Hold Monster and AOE spells, today -- though they arent really needed to effectively nuke-slam mobs in Vale, more for practice to get used to doing it again more than anything.

One of my favorite things to do back in the day was to charm one mob, wait for all his buddies to gaggle around him, then nuke-bomb the whole mess (with a mass hold if there were melees around and I wanted to be nice and let them have a few swings :D

I dont really like mob-specific insta-kills. since they are limited-use and use up my precious few spell slots. I like to run with a specific set of spells and change very little on my bars unless it is specifically called for. Explorer/slayer runs dont really qualify for that :)

I am assuming that Necrotic Blast IS on a longer cooldown -- is there any way (gear, enhancements, epic enhancements etc) to reduce it back down, or is it just a dev nerf to PMs that we are stuck with?

UurlockYgmeov
04-11-2015, 12:14 AM
welcome back!

Have fun storming the castle!

(Anyone else notice the large number of WB threads over the last couple weeks? :D )

Iriale
04-11-2015, 03:23 AM
It was PK I was looking for. The cooldowns on PK and FOD lined up almost perfectly when I ran through the gnoll village for the named mobs (2 years ago). I was fiddling around with the Mass Hold Monster and AOE spells, today -- though they arent really needed to effectively nuke-slam mobs in Vale, more for practice to get used to doing it again more than anything.
In Vale, no, but you will need mass hold monster mass for nuking in Epics. Epic mobs have a stupid high number of hps, especially in upper epics.


One of my favorite things to do back in the day was to charm one mob, wait for all his buddies to gaggle around him, then nuke-bomb the whole mess (with a mass hold if there were melees around and I wanted to be nice and let them have a few swings :D
Charms work in heroics. In epics don't work, because the epic ward. Charms work secs in epics, mobs are free too fast.



I dont really like mob-specific insta-kills. since they are limited-use and use up my precious few spell slots. I like to run with a specific set of spells and change very little on my bars unless it is specifically called for. Explorer/slayer runs dont really qualify for that :)
Don't worry. Your problem won't be instant-kills, instant-kills work fine and Wizard is good with instant-kills. I use a lot FoD, Circle of death and Wail. Your problem will be the crappy dps of the DC wizard. Now dps is too important in epics (epic mobs are bloated with hps… and bosses are worse) I would like to explain you why dps is now so important, but it's hard with my bad English. But do not neglect your dps. Now the dps rules, control and instant-kills are useless against epic bosses (who have an insane amount of hps)


I am assuming that Necrotic Blast IS on a longer cooldown -- is there any way (gear, enhancements, epic enhancements etc) to reduce it back down, or is it just a dev nerf to PMs that we are stuck with?
Yes, PM-SLAs have a longer cooldown. And they are too expensive and do a crappy damage. The old PM-SLAs were useful to cure the skeleton, but now they don't heal him. The truth, are now totally useless. Don't bother with them, these SLAs don't work. Choose archmage core SLAs, now you can (and you need) to use several enhancement trees and the archmage SLAs are better and less expensive. The arcane bolt SLA line of Archmage is too useless. Choose only the core SLAs.

Skeleton pet is useful in heroics and in challenges. In epics don't scale well. Today I only spend 2 action points in it. Don't woth improve it, but I use skeleton in quests until dies and then I re-summon it in the next shrine. You don't lose nothing when dies and it attracts some aggro.

I hope I helped a little.

varusso
04-11-2015, 09:06 AM
In Vale, no, but you will need mass hold monster mass for nuking in Epics. Epic mobs have a stupid high number of hps, especially in upper epics.


Charms work in heroics. In epics don't work, because the epic ward. Charms work secs in epics, mobs are free too fast.


Don't worry. Your problem won't be instant-kills, instant-kills work fine and Wizard is good with instant-kills. I use a lot FoD, Circle of death and Wail. Your problem will be the crappy dps of the DC wizard. Now dps is too important in epics (epic mobs are bloated with hps… and bosses are worse) I would like to explain you why dps is now so important, but it's hard with my bad English. But do not neglect your dps. Now the dps rules, control and instant-kills are useless against epic bosses (who have an insane amount of hps)


Yes, PM-SLAs have a longer cooldown. And they are too expensive and do a crappy damage. The old PM-SLAs were useful to cure the skeleton, but now they don't heal him. The truth, are now totally useless. Don't bother with them, these SLAs don't work. Choose archmage core SLAs, now you can (and you need) to use several enhancement trees and the archmage SLAs are better and less expensive. The arcane bolt SLA line of Archmage is too useless. Choose only the core SLAs.

Skeleton pet is useful in heroics and in challenges. In epics don't scale well. Today I only spend 2 action points in it. Don't woth improve it, but I use skeleton in quests until dies and then I re-summon it in the next shrine. You don't lose nothing when dies and it attracts some aggro.

I hope I helped a little.

I use charms mostly when soloing or when grouping in heroic content; I mainly tend toward BYOH groups, and in those, a well-placed charm can seriously reduce the damage the group takes from mobs. When the dust settles, we can release and kill it or leave it where it stands, depending on the scenario. When soloing, it is VERY effective for keeping aggro off of you. Mass hold was always good for this too, allowing melees to stomp the mobs fast, while adding some extra bang to AOEs. I was always versatile enough to be able to control and/or nuke as best benefited the party as a whole.

Turbine introduced the new tiered epics right before I quit, so I didnt get to play around much in the EH/EE versions. Mass insta-kills and holds were the way to go, but then they started monkeying around with the resists and wards, and I just stopped bothering with the majority of it. If they are anything like what they were when I quit, then DPSing with a mage isnt worth it, because their HPs are just ridiculously high. It was much more efficient to play support with buffs and holds, etc. and let the melees chew through them. Unless there is some serious DPS boosting available now that I havent seen, I just dont see how that could be viable above EN.

PM SLAs are free. They cost HP to cast, which is replenished by Death Aura (which a PM pretty much always has on anyway), so that essentially negates their cost. I doubt they are really effective in epics (they werent when I quit at any rate, and their damage isnt high enough to warrant them as "real" DPS there), but in heroic content and slayers, they work well. Unless you are referring to the "cost" just in AP? I just dont see building a PM and NOT getting their SLAs -- though I wish I could skip necrotic touch and go straight to bolt and blast :/ Having to invest the points in lower tier SLAs just to be able to invest equal points in higher SLAs is a complete waste.

Honestly, I wouldnt even waste a single point in the pets. If they havent significantly improved the function of them, then those are points I can use much more efficiently and effectively elsewhere. The only function they have served in the past is as a distraction for mobs (if their AI wasnt borked at the time), and I can get that with a summon scroll. Now, if they have made them more effctive in combat (significantly higher DPS, better tank, etc) then that would be worth reconsidering. But I am getting the impression that nothing has really changed with them in 2 years :(

Thanks for feedback and advice folks; discussing and debating the changes really helps get me back in the proper mindset and kick the dust off :D


BTW: Anyone know how to get the forums to STOP LOGGING ME OUT?!? Grrr...

Iriale
04-12-2015, 06:39 AM
Turbine introduced the new tiered epics right before I quit, so I didnt get to play around much in the EH/EE versions. Mass insta-kills and holds were the way to go, but then they started monkeying around with the resists and wards, and I just stopped bothering with the majority of it. If they are anything like what they were when I quit, then DPSing with a mage isnt worth it, because their HPs are just ridiculously high. It was much more efficient to play support with buffs and holds, etc. and let the melees chew through them. Unless there is some serious DPS boosting available now that I havent seen, I just dont see how that could be viable above EN.
A wizard has bad dps, yes. But if you want solo sometimes, you need dps. In a party, true, you let the melees do the work with bosses. But if you solo… you need dps. And every update there are more immunities to instant-kills and more bosses and mobs with more hps. It is a sincere advice: now the game is too focused on dps. You can't neglect dps. Or you will be a dependent toon who can't solo. As wizard, your dps will be bad, but at least you will can to play solo if you want or need. I love team play... but I want to play solo if my friends are not online. If you only play in parties, ok, you don't need dps.

Use epic spells as energy burst. They do good damage for few spell points.



PM SLAs are free. They cost HP to cast, which is replenished by Death Aura (which a PM pretty much always has on anyway), so that essentially negates their cost. I doubt they are really effective in epics (they werent when I quit at any rate, and their damage isnt high enough to warrant them as "real" DPS there), but in heroic content and slayers, they work well. Unless you are referring to the "cost" just in AP? I just dont see building a PM and NOT getting their SLAs -- though I wish I could skip necrotic touch and go straight to bolt and blast :/ Having to invest the points in lower tier SLAs just to be able to invest equal points in higher SLAs is a complete waste.
I am talking about the cost in action points. It’s a HUGE cost for three SLAs almost useless in epics (crappy damage, long cooldown). Well, even in heroics I can to think in better investments to these SLAs. But it was just a friendly advice. Try it for yourself, to specialize the enhancements is easy and cheap.



Honestly, I wouldnt even waste a single point in the pets. If they havent significantly improved the function of them, then those are points I can use much more efficiently and effectively elsewhere. The only function they have served in the past is as a distraction for mobs (if their AI wasnt borked at the time), and I can get that with a summon scroll. Now, if they have made them more effctive in combat (significantly higher DPS, better tank, etc) then that would be worth reconsidering. But I am getting the impression that nothing has really changed with them in 2 years :(
The pet is better than before. It's harder and his stats improve with the levels (the skeleton had static stats in the past). The pet does little dps, but is good attracting aggro (it can be your mini-tank) He is not very useful in EEs, but a lever-puller worth 2 action points (now the skeleton has an action bar as the arti and druid's pets) My advice is: invest 2 action points, no more. The skeleton has some value, but not enough for a large investment.



BTW: Anyone know how to get the forums to STOP LOGGING ME OUT?!? Grrr...
oops I don't know, sorry. I don’t have this problem.

Enjoy the game :)

brzytki
04-12-2015, 07:45 AM
BTW: Anyone know how to get the forums to STOP LOGGING ME OUT?!? Grrr...

Iirc, you need to log into myaccount.turbine.com and then on forums to prevent getting randomly logged out. Only need to do it once, not on every log in. Could be wrong though as it's been like 2 years since they introduced new forums.

varusso
04-12-2015, 10:15 AM
Iirc, you need to log into myaccount.turbine.com and then on forums to prevent getting randomly logged out. Only need to do it once, not on every log in. Could be wrong though as it's been like 2 years since they introduced new forums.

Thanks. I remember there being some silly trick involving cross-logging. Hopefully that was it. We'll see in a few hours if it worked :p


A wizard has bad dps, yes. But if you want solo sometimes, you need dps. In a party, true, you let the melees do the work with bosses. But if you solo… you need dps. And every update there are more immunities to instant-kills and more bosses and mobs with more hps. It is a sincere advice: now the game is too focused on dps. You can't neglect dps. Or you will be a dependent toon who can't solo. As wizard, your dps will be bad, but at least you will can to play solo if you want or need. I love team play... but I want to play solo if my friends are not online. If you only play in parties, ok, you don't need dps.

Use epic spells as energy burst. They do good damage for few spell points.


I am talking about the cost in action points. It’s a HUGE cost for three SLAs almost useless in epics (crappy damage, long cooldown). Well, even in heroics I can to think in better investments to these SLAs. But it was just a friendly advice. Try it for yourself, to specialize the enhancements is easy and cheap.


The pet is better than before. It's harder and his stats improve with the levels (the skeleton had static stats in the past). The pet does little dps, but is good attracting aggro (it can be your mini-tank) He is not very useful in EEs, but a lever-puller worth 2 action points (now the skeleton has an action bar as the arti and druid's pets) My advice is: invest 2 action points, no more. The skeleton has some value, but not enough for a large investment.


oops I don't know, sorry. I don’t have this problem.

Enjoy the game :)

My DPS should be fine for soloing the majority of Heroic content, unless the heroic mobs have also received a major HP bump. The majority of them (with a few quest-specific exceptions) are still vulnerable to a high-DC deathspell wiz on heroic, right? I am also known for grabbing a big honking 2-handed wpn and running through dungeons with a berserking beatdown for everything in front of me :D And like I said I just dont see trying to DPS in epics with a wiz -- which I wont be soloing anytime soon, so its probably going to be all about controls and debuffs as part of a group. Unless I were to give up on DCs and focus solely on DPS -- which isnt going to happen. Thats what my sorc is for :P

Skellie as a lever puller could be useful -- they didnt do that before; I always used a hireling. I will have to look into that one. As for tanking -- unless they are ALOT hardier as a base pet than before, anything on level appropriate elite would chew them up in seconds, making it a better option for me to just tank as usual ad get the greensteel procs for mana. Did turbine ever fix the problem with skellies getting stuck and just standing there when their targeting was borked? Cos mobs almost immediately ignored them when that happened, making them completely useless as tanks.

Ahem...Epic Spells? Tell me more :D

varusso
04-12-2015, 09:17 PM
Iirc, you need to log into myaccount.turbine.com and then on forums to prevent getting randomly logged out. Only need to do it once, not on every log in. Could be wrong though as it's been like 2 years since they introduced new forums.

~sigh~ Unfortunately that did not work :(