PDA

View Full Version : Allow Crafting of Caster level Scrolls...



Enderoc
04-08-2015, 12:42 PM
Scrolls should be the bread and butter of casters, and I feel they should with investment be allowed to scribe them in order to use them at the caster level in which they were created. Components, collectibles, plat etc... all should be allowed to be obtained in order to do so. If you can make magic gear...you should be able to make scrolls.

Enderoc
04-08-2015, 12:51 PM
When I say caster level, that includes with feats, enhancements, and bonuses from Epic Destinies. If you make saves on mobs a spell point sink... allow the means to create an arsenal for casters. The bonuses provided with these scrolls should be amped by wand and scroll mastery as well as skills allotted to them. And may I suggest a feat that would improve on this further. Scrolls are incredibly slower to cast from so it will not be game breaking.

dunklezhan
04-08-2015, 12:56 PM
I think its a combination of 'we don't want to devalue casters by allowing powerful scrolls' (fixable by making scrolls BTC on creation) with a drop of 'we want casters to have to make tough choices about quests and preserving their blue bar' (which was originally wholly a game theory decision but these days also has an element of store profit consideration). I think there's a feeling amongst some of the current devs that allowing scrolls and clickies in general into the game in the first place was somewhat of a Bad Plan.

Either way, though I'd like this too... I don't see it happening.

Enderoc
04-08-2015, 01:00 PM
It could be costly... we are not talking about vendor sales here. Collecting ingredients is time consuming or plat sink.
If its profits alone that are driving Turbine and not appreciation of its player base, that in itself is a bad idea.

If you gimp your players to uselessness in order to prey on their weaknesses alone, they will no longer play.

Enderoc
04-08-2015, 01:23 PM
You could base it off the mastery you have achieved in Cannith crafting as well, and sell scroll cases in the store. The catch is you must have at least one level wizard to scribe any scroll and the UMD to craft scrolls not of your learning (i.e. Divine/Arcane). In which case the UMD would be the base at what level spell you wish to create and percentage of its success even if you have achieved the highest level of crafting.

dunklezhan
04-08-2015, 01:27 PM
It could be costly... we are not talking about vendor sales here. Collecting ingredients is time consuming or plat sink.


Agreed.



If its profits alone that are driving Turbine and not appreciation of its player base, that in itself is a bad idea.



True, but that's not what I said was happening.



If you gimp your players to uselessness in order to prey on their weaknesses alone, they will no longer play.

How is not having scroll writing equivalent to gimping your players to uselessness?

LuKaSu
04-08-2015, 02:27 PM
I would support scroll crafting in general (Bound to the Scriber), but not with all the spellpower and metamagics applying. Scroll crafting could be a plat sink, just like it is now, except it would allow an expanded selection of spells available to the magic user. This would be fantastic for people to bring their spells from one life to the next (though, IMHO, it would make it so there was even less need for other party members at all). But if you include all the metas, then every person would be out there casting full meta'd spells of all of their highest spells - basically making a need for content designers to design content around everyone using always-full-meta'd spells. This would essentially make all old content mindlessly simple to play, and all future content virtually impossible for characters who aren't scribing everything.

EDIT: I just looked back up and read another comment above this one. If they did have scribing, I would be 100% against the idea that you could scribe a spell that wasn't in your spellbook.

TL;DR - Yes to scribing, no to scribing that included metamagics.

Enderoc
04-08-2015, 11:05 PM
But the kicker is it would be time consuming... even if meta-magic was allowed in their crafting, A heightened scroll of level 28, empowered and maximized for example. You would need to first achieve that level of crafting for one, buy the scroll and materials if not gather them and then craft each one at a time. Scrolls are consumable. Not to mention UMD level would also increase so not all classes could cast them and because the level range from 1-28 not all would be useful at any level even if they may be powerful...there is risk if you use higher level scrolls they will be wasted more so if they involve meta-magics as they should be added into the equation. There should be a UMD check added for these scrolls if meta magic was allowed even if they would normally be cast at 100 percent. Extreme failure of roll of one could result in damage...especially in casting these spells made in Epic scroll creation.

You could very well make the act of creation itself time consuming in the way that to be a scribe would take considerable amount of patience though would be worth it.

I am just throwing ideas around. I really think caster level scrolls should be able to be crafted however. More so when dealing with EE. The DC of crafted scrolls should be written into the design, they should be a way for players to make plat or shards... I think its a good idea personally.

Lets say your ED gave you plus 5 arcane levels in crafting a scroll. A 20th level wizard in a martial sphere would have to make a UMD check to cast a higher level spell and then if metas were involved higher still more so if the DC is made even higher from school specialization . You see?

In that way wizards would have to arrange their enhancements also to get the maximum DC of the particular scrolls they want to make if they want to make them maxed out...while their school of specialization through feats would always be the highest ranking scrolls they make.

In that way players and guilds could make these scribe alts as figureheads or sages of the Guild...in the same way you may retire an artificer as only a crafter.

UMD to use these scrolls should take into consideration a few things... level difference, attributed skill difference, attributed casting stat difference, meta-magic difference, school mastery difference. If the creator of the scroll makes a truly awesome work, you need to be able to come close to being able to do the same to use these scrolls or it may result in destroying the scroll and taking hit points from yourself by rolling a one or failing by a certain amount.

So say for instance a Sorcerer which has fewer feats than a wizard wants to cast a spell they had not chosen. Even if their UMD is high due to Charisma...the fact they may not have the same meta feats or specialization they may have to roll higher to use these scrolls. On the other hand they may make the roll and cast the spell that the wizard had arranged all his enhancements in order to create at the same level it had been created. Once...he may not be lucky next time.

The_Human_Cypher
04-09-2015, 12:36 AM
/signed. This could be made part of the crafting system revamp that will probably occur late 2015 / 2016.

General_Gronker
04-09-2015, 07:35 AM
This should be available. Nothing more:



Scribe Scroll [Item Creation]
Prerequisite
Caster level 1st.

Benefit
You can create a scroll of any spell that you know. Scribing a scroll takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a scroll is its spell level × its caster level × 25 gp. To scribe a scroll, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price.

Any scroll that stores a spell with a costly material component or an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the costs derived from the base price, you must expend the material component or pay the XP when scribing the scroll.

Eryhn
04-09-2015, 07:56 AM
on my own toons atm, the only scrolls that are useable viably are defensive self-buff and heals ones. I support the general notion of getting offensive scrolls to where they are usable, but giving them the full buffs of feats, EDs, spellpower and metamagics would definetly impair the balance issue of caster power being blue bar limited (no matter how high you set the bar of needing mats, time and plat to make viable scrolls)

So im not entirely sure how this ought to be implemented ... there'd need to be some middle ground where scroll DCs arent entirely useless, but also do not work even remotely 100% on par with spells proper.

Generally though, while the thought is appealing, I have no love whatsoever for the Devs currently sacrificing time for quality of life things like this particular one. I would be much more happy with 2 weeks dedicated to polishing up U25 to live worthy state, followed by continuing lag battle, followed by a throrugh quest by quest red alert issues fix. Once that is done its probaly already time to work on the quests for U26, and if any minor improvements make it into U26 I could think of a plethora of issues I'd deem far more important fixes or streamlining than this.

Not saying its not a totally valid notion, it IS sorta sad to see all these nice spells on the vendors everytime and thinking, MEH, wish it were actually useful since I DO have the UMD for it ....just that I wouldnt prioritize it overly high given what else is amiss ...

p.s. IF this were to somehow get squeezed into the mentioned crafting overhaul at that (much later) point in time ... without increasing the workload needed for that disproportionally, ok, signed.

Enderoc
04-09-2015, 07:31 PM
The spell formula is already in script...no need to configure there. The only thing that would be need to be thought out would be the value changes to the UMD levels these Gilded Scrolls would take. You can even say they must be written on pure sheets of platinum each costing 2,000 plat per level of the spell just as the base component whether a success or failure in crafting them.