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View Full Version : Update 26 Quests Raids and Loot.



Bloodskittle
04-08-2015, 04:09 AM
With update 25 now here why not immediately look to the future? There has been talk that Epic Vale and Shavarath quests will be in the mix.
This content is/was some of the most played heroic quests and raids as was necro 4, but it is very important I believe that we don't end up with another case of what happened in U23 where we just received re-hashed epic content but amazing loot and thus the incentive to grind this new content to death despite it being what we've been playing for the past few years, and a Raid that paled in comparison to its heroic counterpart.
Or even worse a case of what we've just seen, a fantastically crafted quest that is enormous and enjoyable yet lacks any loot that is truly worth grinding for.

For update 26 I would like to see Vale in its epic form, remembering that the Vale of Twilight is massive and with many secrets that we can once more discover, my suggestion for this is to put the new 5 quests in different spots around the vale, the spawning location of the bat swarm and the caved in under water mine both spring to mind. Also remember that in relation to the story arc some years have past and I expect a place such as the Vale would have undergone many changes in that time, so a slightly different explorer area but somewhat familiar would feel about right for this area. None of the quests should be at all similar to any of the heroic flagging quests, neither I nor any other player in the DDO community needs to re-enter those old quests in epic form, we need to see brand new content set within the themes and guidelines of the area. Epic Shroud however ought to bear some resemblance to its heroic counterpart and though I would like to see a variety of new puzzles here I personally wouldn't mind seeing something similar to the Shroud, or more accurately I would rather see an epic Shroud clone than see another case of Mark of Death where a beloved raid has been dumbed down to nothingness and had all its charm taken from it.

As for Shavarath, clearly Shavarath is an immense plane, so there is zero need for us to revisit any of the places we saw in the heroic version, that being said I am aware that for convenience sake it would be easier on the devs to leave the public zone as it is and simply add some new quest givers on the floating island of Amrath. The portal on Amrath however being that it is a portal is not limited to shooting adventurers down into one place. If you recall when we left The Tower of Despair the Devils of Shavarath had lost two of their most high ranking generals, what this means, especially for self serving beings such as Devils is a power vacuum and quite possibly Demons making some headway against the Devils. So for Epic Shavarath I would like to see 8 new quests and 2 new raids, because I think both of these story lines can be addressed, 4 quests dealing primarily in demons, 4 quests dealing primarily with devils to help hash out both sides of the story. 1 raid should be something of a set-up/counterpart to the main raid, with something of a Temple of the Deathwyrm/Fire on Thunderpeaks relationship. The final raid culminating in the adventurers actually picking a side, probably the devils because at least they're predictable though some choice here would be great and a breath of fresh air to the way we take on raids.

Now to loot:
First of all, I would love to see some convenience improvements such as:
Silver Flame pots stacking to 100

Bags for spell ingredients, bags should go from small, medium, large, huge, gargantuan. A small bag should be able to carry 9 unique spell ingredients in stacks of up to 1000, AKA enough for every type of spell component from one class type excluding special ingredient types needed for spell such as death pact and stone skin. A gargantuan bag should be able to hold a stack of every single spell component currently in the game in a stack of up to 10,000.

A bag for Potions, I noticed the other day that I was carrying around a number of different potions, some of which I do not use very often but I still feel the need to have on my person, a potions bag, or even a potions bandoleer would be fantastic.

As for Raid/quest Loot, I would love to see something along the lines of what we saw in necro4, with quest loot being decent and a very viable option and raid loot being just a tiny bit better than what is offered in quests, worth farming but not so much better that there is no point doing the quests for loot either.
What I would not like to see is the ability to get these items from chain rewards, as this rewards speed running normal over spending the time and doing elite for the gear.
In regards to Epic greensteel, look no further than heroic greensteel, good quality gear with a lower minimum level = massive replay value for the content. Rather than being over the top new uber gear Epic greensteel should not have anything more powerful than the levels of stuff we already have access to and should have a good minimum level such as 21 or 22 or something. We have a game that focuses TRing over anything else so rather than uber DPS items and the new must-haves give a broad range of options for things that already exist on different items. The true triumph of greensteel was always its ability to fill a role in a slot that you didn't have anything decent to put in it. So angling epic Shroud towards TRing seems like a good way to go.
Epic Shavarath on the otherhand should provide a plethora of new end game gear, none of which should surpass nor be overshadowed by the MoD loot already available. For Epic Shavarath the Loot should not exceed ML 28, despite perhaps wanting to have ML 30 loot unless the plan is to bring out a mass of new raids and end game content there is minimal reason to stay at level 30 so giving the loot ML 28 means it will get used and played with at least for 2 levels.

UurlockYgmeov
04-08-2015, 05:38 AM
U26 is most likely (supposedly) Epic Shavarathe and Enter the Kobold Konsortium... (ok enter the warlock)

more enhancement tree passes (and possibly a new enhancement tree or two)

Bloodskittle
04-08-2015, 08:48 AM
U26 is most likely (supposedly) Epic Shavarathe and Enter the Kobold Konsortium... (ok enter the warlock)

more enhancement tree passes (and possibly a new enhancement tree or two)

And I would like it if they spent the time and did more or less everything I have posted, I don't care if U26 comes out march next year and Epic Shavarath and epic Vale are totally seperate quest packs to their heroic counterparts.

Cordovan
04-08-2015, 10:17 AM
It's too early to say too much about our Update 26 plans, but we do want folks to understand that we are planning to make new, epic quests for that area rather than epify the existing quests and content. What the plans are for the public area I don't personally know yet.

U26 will have other stuff too. Stuff that will be discussed later/soonish...

axel15810
04-08-2015, 10:25 AM
It's too early to say too much about our Update 26 plans, but we do want folks to understand that we are planning to make new, epic quests for that area rather than epify the existing quests and content. What the plans are for the public area I don't personally know yet.

U26 will have other stuff too. Stuff that will be discussed later/soonish...

So quests are all new, but what about the raid? Can you say yet if you all are planning to make an epic ToD? Or is the team planning on a brand new devil raid instead?

I'd love to see 3-4 new shavarath quests and epic versions of the old ones but I know dev resources are limited.

UurlockYgmeov
04-08-2015, 12:10 PM
So quests are all new, but what about the raid? Can you say yet if you all are planning to make an epic ToD? Or is the team planning on a brand new devil raid instead?

I'd love to see 3-4 new shavarath quests and epic versions of the old ones but I know dev resources are limited.


Sev and the team have stated that their intent is to provide all new content for eShavarath and eVale. A new raid for both would be great - but highly probable that at least one new raid (for eVale) will be coming.

Also highly probable that Warlock will make its debut in U26 --- and the first hints of eGS should also show up. More enhancement passes (Ranger in particular seems probable next)

U26: The Kobold Konsortium invades Shavarath with Warlock Kobolds!

now concerning the bags.... it is currently being discussed about providing these type of bags (mats, potions, scrolls) - but if they offer them now - it will be very explicitly stated that they will not work like quivers - you will have to manually remove anything you want to use. This is due to the technical limitations on bags.

Gratch
04-08-2015, 12:17 PM
It's too early to say too much about our Update 26 plans, but we do want folks to understand that we are planning to make new, epic quests for that area rather than epify the existing quests and content. What the plans are for the public area I don't personally know yet.

U26 will have other stuff too. Stuff that will be discussed later/soonish...

Back when the devs did the original Shavarath they supposedly set some art resources and some landscaping up for the Demon and Angel sides we have yet to go to but can slightly see from the floating island. My wishlist for a new epic Shavarath update is:

New explorer on the angel side of things - the devils are helping the demons to invade. It is the Shavarath battleground.
All new storyline taking us into the angel explorer side for new quests then back to ToD: epicified and then a new epic-only raid. ToD being the only previous quest landscape that gets re-used for this update.
Redo all the current rings/belts to match with/keep up with current enhancement updates. add arty rings/necks etc.
Add further ring and belt/neck upgrade tiers for epic


If you had to cut one of those things... maybe we don't need to epicify ToD. Maybe. But two raids would be sweet. And Devil/Demon/Angel bosses that make EE MoD Deathknights look like cactus pricks would be excellent. Three-shot that Paly-Sentinel with 250PRR and 2k+ HP if he doesn't have his own healing and a secondary source going. Get back to a raid using the old-style aggro/defense/healing circle. Though maybe not for both raids. Give us a boss that shotputs the tiny PC across the room and requires dual tanking.... also more movement! A little ToD boss+LoB boss+Knockback in one. If people can complete it the first week w/o items from the raid on EE... then you've done it wrong. You can tone it down later when all the weebles chime in.

axel15810
04-08-2015, 12:27 PM
Sev and the team have stated that their intent is to provide all new content for eShavarath and eVale. A new raid for both would be great - but highly probable that at least one new raid (for eVale) will be coming.

Also highly probable that Warlock will make its debut in U26 --- and the first hints of eGS should also show up. More enhancement passes (Ranger in particular seems probable next)

U26: The Kobold Konsortium invades Shavarath with Warlock Kobolds!

now concerning the bags.... it is currently being discussed about providing these type of bags (mats, potions, scrolls) - but if they offer them now - it will be very explicitly stated that they will not work like quivers - you will have to manually have to remove anything you want to use. This is due to the technical limitations on bags.

Well, they are epicfying shroud so it's not going to be all new for vale. Yes, they did say the vale quests will be all new, but not the raid. I was wondering if they're following the same formula for shavarath (new quests, epified raid) or if they're going new on the raid instead. If we don't get epic ToD or a new raid with the shavarath update I'm going to be very disappointed. We need endgame raids, badly.

Honestly I didn't even consider that they may not give us any epic raid at all next update. I sure hope that's not true.

UurlockYgmeov
04-08-2015, 12:42 PM
Well, they are epicfying shroud so it's not going to be all new for vale. Yes, they did say the vale quests will be all new, but not the raid. I was wondering if they're following the same formula for shavarath (new quests, epified raid) or if they're going new on the raid instead. If we don't get epic ToD or a new raid with the shavarath update I'm going to be very disappointed. We need endgame raids, badly.

Honestly I didn't even consider that they may not give us any epic raid at all next update. I sure hope that's not true.

they haven't said anything (much) about the upcoming raids... but we will hear more in about 4 weeks.

Bloodskittle
04-08-2015, 06:54 PM
Personally I would like it if they just took the extra time and brought out three different raids all together, this would put our total of endgame raids at 6 giving people who are big into raiding something fun to do. As it stands it's pretty easy to complete every single end game raid in under an hour, and within that hour have completed all three. I love raiding and so I would love to see an end game where you simply don't have the time to do all the end game raids in an afternoon, where there is so much, very difficult and enjoyable content that players struggle to get it all done in a day. Pipe dreams I know, but I feel as though 3 new raids is not too much to ask, you can push back u26 into early next year, as long as we get some good new content. I was dissappointed with the lack of raid in u24, however if you do at the bare minimum 1-2 raids per update we should end up with a solid end game. You could even retro-fit some raids, a 3BC pirate raid would be great fun, a Lord of eyes/stone based raid would be marvelous, don't think that just because a quest chain is from a past update that you can't add to that content!

On another note, epic raids can do with a difficulty boost, old epics used to be 5 levels above the player cap, level 35 content (37 on elite) would give a good challenge to players and could end up being very enjoyable. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, if Epic Elite is doable in the first week of the raid being out you haven't made it hard enough. Players should need to acquire loot from the flagging quests and maybe an item or two from the raid on lower difficulties for EE to be even feasible.

Nachomammashouse
04-08-2015, 07:19 PM
It's too early to say too much about our Update 26 plans, but we do want folks to understand that we are planning to make new, epic quests for that area rather than epify the existing quests and content. What the plans are for the public area I don't personally know yet.

U26 will have other stuff too. Stuff that will be discussed later/soonish...

new quests in shavarath, woot! :)

Lanadazia
04-09-2015, 07:09 AM
first of all: great original post, i couldn't write it any better!


...but it is very important I believe that we don't end up with another case of what happened in U23 where we just received re-hashed epic content but amazing loot and thus the incentive to grind this new content to death despite it being what we've been playing for the past few years...
i've wrote it in the forums alot: 3BC was well done, it had the same feel of the quest location but also felt like a different quest (still a complete new quest-location is the best!)
i didn't like gianthold or necro4 since its the same content we've done for years, just with higher numbers. actually you just re-run all of this because you want the loot, but the questing isn't as much fun as it could be



None of the quests should be at all similar to any of the heroic flagging quests, neither I nor any other player in the DDO community needs to re-enter those old quests in epic form, we need to see brand new content set within the themes and guidelines of the area.
Epic Shroud: I would like to see a variety of new puzzles
maybe a continuation of the quests into a new quest. or elements we already know (i.e. puzzle in the rainbow in the dark quest) used to open up to another quest.
not that its the same, but for example a scholar of the twelve found out, that the puzzle isn't only a lock-mechanism for that door, but can be used to summon a portal and the players have to find out/figure out the combination to do so (and can end up in different portals, depending on the combination of colors)
the scholar would teleport the group somewhat near to the puzzle, but the rest of the quest isn't available (time has passed, maybe the cave collapsed or something) and you have to find clues what combinations you can use to open portals (maybe something randomized with appropriate hints. like where the fire elemental spawned some old runes that would be the combination to bring you to a different plain etc)

sounds kinda messy what i've wrote, but if you think of it, the story and the connection to old content got a huge potential!



Shavarath is an immense plane, so there is zero need for us to revisit any of the places we saw in the heroic version ... when we left The Tower of Despair the Devils of Shavarath had lost two of their most high ranking generals

don't make us enter old content with higher numbers EVER AGAIN. i'd like to see how the situation developed, after we killed the generals



The final raid culminating in the adventurers actually picking a side, probably the devils because at least they're predictable though some choice here would be great and a breath of fresh air to the way we take on raids.
i really love the idea of a raid that splits into 2 or more parts and you have to chose where you go!
each side got loot that only drops there, providing that raid even more replay value!
such a split should occur ~ 1/3 or 1/2 in the raid, for it to be versatile and not like a raid with 2 or more different endbosses (still would be cool, but early split = more replay value)



Bags for spell ingredients
iirc cordovan said it in a lunchtime stream i think (?) that they cannot really inplement a components bag due to old game mechanics
also you'd need to pull out stuff you wanted to use before using, making a bag kinda pointless imo


A bag for Potions, I noticed the other day that I was carrying around a number of different potions, some of which I do not use very often but I still feel the need to have on my person, a potions bag, or even a potions bandoleer would be fantastic.

my first mmo, a really old korean grinder (shame on me..) had a potion belt system. actually it was just a little bit of extra inventory (in ddo inventory-scale it would be ~ 5-10 slots)
where only potions could fit in. i really liked the mechanic, since it helped keeping your inventory organized. also i don't think there would be a problem with this, like there is with bags, if you could program such a potion-inventory to not be an item, but an inventory tab, once equipped (or an extra inventory window for that particular item)
rather we can have this to be on regular belts, like upgrade or crafted on them, or there could be a new itemslot, just for a potion-belt/bandoleer that provides no other bonus but the extra inventory.
(also there could be named items with more space or that could stack in higher sizes (silver flame potions *hint*))



Raid/quest Loot
What I would not like to see is the ability to get these items from chain rewards
Epic greensteel: look no further than heroic greensteel, good quality gear with a lower minimum level = massive replay value for the content. Rather than being over the top new uber gear Epic greensteel should not have anything more powerful than the levels of stuff we already have access to and should have a good minimum level such as 21 or 22 or something. We have a game that focuses TRing over anything else so rather than uber DPS items and the new must-haves give a broad range of options for things that already exist on different items. The true triumph of greensteel was always its ability to fill a role in a slot that you didn't have anything decent to put in it. So angling epic Shroud towards TRing seems like a good way to go.
since there will be epic greensteel/sentinent weapons and they'll prolly have a low-epic-level value or TR twink gear value (thats what greensteel is for heroic levels, so i guess it will be this way for epic levels)
please think of other items in that level range! especially the citw-weapons! don't make this raid even more obsolete with new and better weapons.
if its to be low-epic-level-gear as bloodskittle suggested, put it in its right place and stop power-creep that way!


Epic Shavarath on the otherhand should provide a plethora of new end game gear
i would love to see new shavarath sets! also a revamp of the old tod sets would be accurate, so that it at least can be compared to the 'hey i've played an hour and got awesome loot' eveningstar commendation gear.
it was the highest non-epic raid back then, the gear should be useful to eTR! like up to level 21 or 22. i actually would run that raid again if i could get twinkgear for level 18-22.
i really liked the idea of setbonuses, that provided specific builds extra options! i'd also like to see this again in the future with the new shavarath update


It's too early to say too much about our Update 26 plans, but we do want folks to understand that we are planning to make new, epic quests for that area rather than epify the existing quests and content. What the plans are for the public area I don't personally know yet.


thanks for letting us know! yay new content! :)

patang01
04-09-2015, 07:21 AM
Sev and the team have stated that their intent is to provide all new content for eShavarath and eVale. A new raid for both would be great - but highly probable that at least one new raid (for eVale) will be coming.

Also highly probable that Warlock will make its debut in U26 --- and the first hints of eGS should also show up. More enhancement passes (Ranger in particular seems probable next)

U26: The Kobold Konsortium invades Shavarath with Warlock Kobolds!

now concerning the bags.... it is currently being discussed about providing these type of bags (mats, potions, scrolls) - but if they offer them now - it will be very explicitly stated that they will not work like quivers - you will have to manually have to remove anything you want to use. This is due to the technical limitations on bags.

My understanding from reading the feedback from the devs is that both will have new quests and the shroud raid will have a new ending. So I assume up until the last part it'll be pretty much the same. Either way that's alright. I think it's great that they finally separate the heroic line from the Epic since the idea was always that the time line advanced with the higher levels. Making some of the latest epic remakes a little odd (story wise since it's the same quest but some of the narrative speaks of a difference).

Cordovan
04-09-2015, 09:31 AM
Well, they are epicfying shroud so it's not going to be all new for vale. Yes, they did say the vale quests will be all new, but not the raid. I was wondering if they're following the same formula for shavarath (new quests, epified raid) or if they're going new on the raid instead. If we don't get epic ToD or a new raid with the shavarath update I'm going to be very disappointed. We need endgame raids, badly.

Honestly I didn't even consider that they may not give us any epic raid at all next update. I sure hope that's not true.

While things could change, the current plan is to have a new raid for Update 26, rather than an epified version of Tower of Despair. Let's talk about The Shroud when we get a bit further down the road.

patang01
04-09-2015, 11:08 AM
While things could change, the current plan is to have a new raid for Update 26, rather than an epified version of Tower of Despair. Let's talk about The Shroud when we get a bit further down the road.

The fact that Turbine is now investing time for a unique Epic quest chain with possible changed/unique raid is good news. It really enhances the lore, instead of confusing it like with Epic Mabar (so I'm doing Doomsphere again, exact same as before but with new lore....)

Seikojin
04-09-2015, 11:29 AM
While things could change, the current plan is to have a new raid for Update 26, rather than an epified version of Tower of Despair. Let's talk about The Shroud when we get a bit further down the road.

I for one am glad it is shavrath. I love that area and the quests. So it will be nice to have potentially more life there and renewed reasons to see pugs there.

UurlockYgmeov
04-09-2015, 01:24 PM
While things could change, the current plan is to have a new raid for Update 26, rather than an epified version of Tower of Despair. Let's talk about The Shroud when we get a bit further down the road.

https://pcavote.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/sweet.gif

axel15810
04-09-2015, 01:56 PM
While things could change, the current plan is to have a new raid for Update 26, rather than an epified version of Tower of Despair. Let's talk about The Shroud when we get a bit further down the road.

Awesome, thanks for the response Cordovan.

Bloodskittle
04-09-2015, 07:51 PM
While things could change, the current plan is to have a new raid for Update 26, rather than an epified version of Tower of Despair. Let's talk about The Shroud when we get a bit further down the road.

Please please oh please make this raid something on the scale of Deathwyrm, we don't need another arena boss fight called a raid.

The_Human_Cypher
04-09-2015, 09:08 PM
I'm glad that both Shavarath and The Vale of Twilight are receiving Epic treat - 2015 will continue to be an exciting year in DDO. 3 or 4 new Epic quests in Shavarath with a new raid and 5 new Epic quests along the lines of the 5 Shroud flagging quests with a reimagined Epic Shroud is what we will probably get with Update 26 and Update 27.

Bloodskittle
04-09-2015, 10:03 PM
I feel as though the Shavarath story line really has legs and that the devs could spend a couple updates really fleshing it out. Just as Forgotten realms started as only 12 quests and a raid Shavarath has the potential to get larger and larger with further updates that explore the devils demons and archons respectively.

Lanadazia
04-10-2015, 03:36 AM
i really appreciate that you prefer making NEW content over epifying content!