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bsquishwizzy
04-06-2015, 12:23 PM
So, my run-through with a Ranger AA / Rogue build is nearing a close. I’m investigating doing a Ranger / Wizard build. My gut instinct is that between maybe Elf, Harper, AA, and one of two wizard PrEs, there’s a fairly robust ranged combat build somewhere in there. The question is: what’s the best way to go about it?

Do I do pure elf wizard, and invest in the AA line?

If not, then which class take precedence (at least 11 levels) in the build: Wizard or Ranger?

Should I focus on INT for Harper, or Dex for finesse and (most notably) Evasion?

Elf has the most synergies with Ranger and ranged combat, so I’d probably stick to that. Is there a compelling case to go otherwise?

I’m looking to be heavy in ranged combat, with wizard and ranger being the predominant classes. No Monkchers, or melee-focused suggestions please. Likewise, I don’t need a detailed build, just some thoughts on what I should shoot for as far as feats and – perhaps more importantly – enhancements.

Thrudh
04-06-2015, 12:35 PM
My main character was a ranger/wizard for many years... He really hit his stride when the level cap was raised to 16 (11/5 ranger/wizard). When it got to 20, I tried 11/7/2 ranger/wizard/rogue for a while, but finally gave it up...

What killed it was the plethora of clickables for all the low-level wizard spells.

In the early days, having access to self-cast haste, displacement, blur, jump, exp retreat, invisibility was very nice... There were no long lasting clickables for those spells, just very short duration scrolls.

Nowadays, you get all that without having to take a single caster level (assuming you're a vet and have some gear - the build concept will still work for a new player for a while)...

So, the only thing a vet is going to get out of the wizard levels is enhancements, which I'm not sure are worth it...

But I'd be interested to see what you think after you build it... Might be fun for me to someday re-roll my main guy back into his original build from 8 years ago.

Enderoc
04-06-2015, 12:43 PM
11 ranger 9 wizard Warforged Eldritch Harper would be good. I would start 2 ranger then wizard levels, then finish ranger. Good thing about taking most your Ranger levels late is you get all the bonus skill points from Int increases to make it a decent Ranger without cross classing a ton of skills, plus its good to establish your self healing early.

Insightful reflex will keep your reflexes high for evasion.

unbongwah
04-06-2015, 12:51 PM
My first thought is INT-based rgr 6 / wiz 12; Shiradi build which alternates Manyshot+IPS with Archmage spam (Missile SLAs) and the occasional Energy Burst. [Could go rog 2 splash for Evasion + trap skills; or FvS 2 for AoV bonuses and med armor prof.] 32 APs in AA for Slaying Arrow, 11 APs in DWS for Sniper Shot, 21 APs in AM for core SLAs, 12 APs in Harper for KtA+INT to dmg, 4 APs in racial for Arcane Fluidity. 7 heroic + 3 wiz + 3 epic feats buys you: PBS, Precision, IC:Ranged, IPS, Max, Quik, Emp, Overwhelming Crit, Combat Archery, with a couple feats to spare.

Enderoc
04-06-2015, 12:53 PM
11 ranger gives improved precise shot and GTWF for free....meaning total dex dump for intelligence. High Intelligence to hit and damage and high con... and that is your war machine.

Eth
04-06-2015, 01:03 PM
I'd say 11 wizard/6 ranger/3 rogue.

Main reason for at least 10 wizard would would be 4 level 4 spells.
- death aura, negative energy burst, solid fog and ice storm
The latter two combined are still one of the most powerful no DC CC spells in the game, slowing everything so much that they barely move at all.
Death aura and neg. burst are obviously for self healing. I would advice zombie form since the attack speed penalty does not apply to ranged combat. You still get the fortification and all the juicy immunities for beind an undead.
There's not much good stuff in palemaster for such a build, so deeper investments for wraith form would be a waste.
Zombie form also lowers the angle how you shoot your arrows because zombies hold a bow at the height of their waist. This allows you to IPS much smaller targets than you usually could.
Also - max tumble. Tumbling in zombie form is hilarious.

Max Int for energy burst and take KTA, Int to Attack/Damage from harper tree.

bsquishwizzy
04-06-2015, 03:38 PM
I'd say 11 wizard/6 ranger/3 rogue.

Main reason for at least 10 wizard would would be 4 level 4 spells.
- death aura, negative energy burst, solid fog and ice storm
The latter two combined are still one of the most powerful no DC CC spells in the game, slowing everything so much that they barely move at all.
Death aura and neg. burst are obviously for self healing. I would advice zombie form since the attack speed penalty does not apply to ranged combat. You still get the fortification and all the juicy immunities for beind an undead.
There's not much good stuff in palemaster for such a build, so deeper investments for wraith form would be a waste.
Zombie form also lowers the angle how you shoot your arrows because zombies hold a bow at the height of their waist. This allows you to IPS much smaller targets than you usually could.
Also - max tumble. Tumbling in zombie form is hilarious.

Max Int for energy burst and take KTA, Int to Attack/Damage from harper tree.

The only problem I have with this is that I am sick to death of all of my fleshy wizards taking PM. I have a PM pure wizard, and EK with Vampire form, and another PM whose makeup escapes me at the moment.

But given that I have to have 14 levels of ranger to get CSW, it may be my only viable option.

Saekee
04-06-2015, 03:45 PM
Not sure if they corrected it in this next update but PM vamp form was healing (+1 whole hp lol) on ranged attacks for every hit, including every enemy the arrow/shuriken etc. passes through.

Obviously not WAI but it probably will never get corrected.

Thrudh
04-06-2015, 03:52 PM
The only problem I have with this is that I am sick to death of all of my fleshy wizards taking PM. I have a PM pure wizard, and EK with Vampire form, and another PM whose makeup escapes me at the moment.

But given that I have to have 14 levels of ranger to get CSW, it may be my only viable option.

Why do you want to build a wizard/ranger if you already have 3 wizards?

If you go mostly wizard, the ranger isn't going to add much flavor...

If you go mostly ranger, the wizard will add some flavor, but almost everything you can get from those wizard levels, you can get from clickables instead.

Talon_Moonshadow
04-06-2015, 04:51 PM
My first and still main character is a Rgr11/Rog4/Wiz5.
I still like this build, but I think now I prefer a pure Elf Rgr, AA, w/Dragon marks.

I no longer enjoy playing trapper builds.
... and the DPS on my main has always been low. (the pure Rgr AA does much better DPS)

My Rgr/Rog/Wiz is very survivable. Displacement on tap is really nice. Rare that I run out of SP.
full UMD Heal scroll healing and wand/scroll mastery from Rog levels is nice.

But the Elf AA has good SP healing. (but does run out of SP at times....although rarely)


There are various combinations of Wizard and Ranger that work well.

I am strongly considering redoing mine as an Int based Harper.
.. I just hesitate to give up my permanent Tenser's buff..... decisions, decisions.....

Talon_Moonshadow
04-06-2015, 05:11 PM
A couple other comments:


The Shroud isn't run like it used to be, so IMO, Displacement clickies are not easy to come by.

However, several easy to get items have permanent Blur on them.
30% striding trumps Expeditious Retreat (but not at low levels).

Haste is even a feat now.... (but not till epics).

A well geared epic character gains little from Wiz levels (on a Ranger).
But at lower levels those Wiz levels mean something.

Mine has permanent Tenser's stance.
Full UMD.
Hast and Displacement
Invisibility, Blur, Expeditious Retreat.

Stone skin and flame arrows wands.

still have 70+ DDoor scrolls I have been rationing...
Teleport scrolls.

Fireshield scrolls. (wish I had 7 Wiz levels so I could use the spell instead.

UMD Heal scrolls with wand/scroll mastery bonus.
Human heal amp.

...and can handle all current EE traps (I think).
(and a mid 60's to mid 70's Ref save, depending on buffs)

This is a fun build.

But my DPS has always sucked. :(


I have played around with several other ideas to get a similar build that I would better...

I have enjoyed the dragon marked Elf Rgr a lot.
Good DPS, and Invis and Displacement.
Good SP self healing.

I have tried a few Rgr/Brd ideas.
Having trouble getting the perfect mix.

I do like my Rgr18/Brd2 build.
Not sure I can fit in the Elf AA capstone enhancement though (and keep scroll mastery.. :( )

But at epic levels, you can use Cacoon.
and I currently take Max/Emp/Emp Heal... and put points into Heal skill. Plus wear a devotion item.
My CSW heals very well.
I really do not need Heal scrolls, or max UMD.

The Rgr/Wiz is fun, but there are probabaly better ways to get most of what you want.... and on a better build.



I should also ad I recently finished a Wiz life on my would-be-completionist toon.
I did so as an Elf Harper, who meleed a lot. (and shot a bow)
This was a fun build too.

Self healing was low though.
a WF Harper Wiz may be more fun.. (but no bow. :( )


Anyway, I am still searching for that perfect build for me.
Flavor is important though.
and the Rgr/Rog/Wiz has been a low of fun over the years.

bsquishwizzy
04-07-2015, 10:33 AM
Why do you want to build a wizard/ranger if you already have 3 wizards?

If you go mostly wizard, the ranger isn't going to add much flavor...

If you go mostly ranger, the wizard will add some flavor, but almost everything you can get from those wizard levels, you can get from clickables instead.

My initial thought was that ranged plus spells could make a fairly potent overall ranged character, with decent buffs.

Consider maybe 8 levels of wizard on a Ranger. That gives you access to Stoneskin, Flame Arrow (one additional elemental imbue, if you work it right), DDoor, the bread-and-butter AoE spells (Acid Rain, Ice Storm, etc.), bread-and-butter buffs (Displacement, Blur, Haste, Jump, etc.), as well as a decent amount of ranged damage spells.

Yeah, you can go for clickies for the buffs. You really can’t go that route for something like Frost Lance, and Magic Missile. Oh, and with 8 levels of wizard, I should be able to EASILY scroll True Seeing, GH, Teleport, and Tenser’s Transformation without UMD.

Then with, say, 12 levels of Ranger you get Cure Moderate Wounds (it’s better than nothing), Barkskin, GTWF (if I need it), Improved Precise Shot, 3-arrow multishot, Paralyzing arrows, a bunch of imbues, and so on.

In epic, I’d go Shirardi for the obvious benefits, but most likely twist Cocoon because, well, I’d be insane to not do that. CMW is a weak spell, but with a decent Healing Lore item, Empowered Healing, healing amp item, and maybe pots I could make do.

I did a Barb / Ranger combo where I went TWF and had Multishot as my opening salvo, and while that started weak, it finished strong when I hit epic levels. My thought was that Ranger / Wizard gives me a little more flexibility as far as ranged damage, and event some other benefits that I haven’t considered.

I have a little time before I make my decision (still have to finish lvl 19). So I thought I’d put this thread out there to see what other people come up with. Then take these suggestions and formulate a build.

And I already have 3 wizards because…well…I like wizards.

Thrudh
04-07-2015, 12:42 PM
My initial thought was that ranged plus spells could make a fairly potent overall ranged character, with decent buffs.

Consider maybe 8 levels of wizard on a Ranger. That gives you access to Stoneskin, Flame Arrow (one additional elemental imbue, if you work it right), DDoor, the bread-and-butter AoE spells (Acid Rain, Ice Storm, etc.), bread-and-butter buffs (Displacement, Blur, Haste, Jump, etc.), as well as a decent amount of ranged damage spells.

Yeah, you can go for clickies for the buffs. You really can’t go that route for something like Frost Lance, and Magic Missile. Oh, and with 8 levels of wizard, I should be able to EASILY scroll True Seeing, GH, Teleport, and Tenser’s Transformation without UMD.

Then with, say, 12 levels of Ranger you get Cure Moderate Wounds (it’s better than nothing), Barkskin, GTWF (if I need it), Improved Precise Shot, 3-arrow multishot, Paralyzing arrows, a bunch of imbues, and so on.

In epic, I’d go Shirardi for the obvious benefits, but most likely twist Cocoon because, well, I’d be insane to not do that. CMW is a weak spell, but with a decent Healing Lore item, Empowered Healing, healing amp item, and maybe pots I could make do.

I did a Barb / Ranger combo where I went TWF and had Multishot as my opening salvo, and while that started weak, it finished strong when I hit epic levels. My thought was that Ranger / Wizard gives me a little more flexibility as far as ranged damage, and event some other benefits that I haven’t considered.

I have a little time before I make my decision (still have to finish lvl 19). So I thought I’d put this thread out there to see what other people come up with. Then take these suggestions and formulate a build.

And I already have 3 wizards because…well…I like wizards.

Again, a 11/5 ranger/wizard was my main for years (later a 11/7/2 ranger/wizard/rogue)... The buffs you can get elsewhere, the damage spells are pretty weak without caster levels (that may be less true nowadays than when I ran a ranger/wizard)...

How are you going to level? You're showing the advantages of both classes, but you won't get BOTH advantages until very late in the heroic levels.

Look, I LOVE the iconic fighter/wizard of D&D lore... but there are so many low-level wizard spells available in clickable form that the first 1-5 levels of wizard are pointless nowadays.

Maybe for a brand-new player without current access to said clickables, this would be a good build.

bsquishwizzy
04-07-2015, 05:13 PM
Again, a 11/5 ranger/wizard was my main for years (later a 11/7/2 ranger/wizard/rogue)... The buffs you can get elsewhere, the damage spells are pretty weak without caster levels (that may be less true nowadays than when I ran a ranger/wizard)...

Look, I LOVE the iconic fighter/wizard of D&D lore... but there are so many low-level wizard spells available in clickable form that the first 1-5 levels of wizard are pointless nowadays.

Maybe for a brand-new player without current access to said clickables, this would be a good build.


This particular toon does not have a lot of decent gear; mainly hand-me-downs and some decent random loot pulls. So that plethora of clickies is not available in this case.

Even so, those clickies have their particular shortcomings. I’d rather have Haste with Extend (for example) than carry a carton-load of Haste pots.

Likewise, some of the things I’m shooting for I can scroll cast with a few levels of wizard, and leverage more on the wizard side than I can making the investment in CHR and UMD.



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How are you going to level? You're showing the advantages of both classes, but you won't get BOTH advantages until very late in the heroic levels.

Without knowing which way I’m going to go at this point, my thought would be 2 levels of Ranger first, and alternate between wizard and ranger after that.

And getting these nice things later in heroic? I’m not too concerned about that. With a couple of exceptions, lower level heroic content is not as rough as stuff lvl 16+, in my opinion.

I guess the other question is: anyone recently tried full elf wizzy, and dip into the elf AA line?