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Xathris
04-04-2015, 08:09 PM
I remember seeing in the forums some site that you can test combat for DDO. Lamina, or something like that. I am interested because I can't figure out which weapons are better. I have a duel-wielding 14F/6RA who is proficient in kopeshes. He also has Improved Crit-Slashing and the Kensai enhancement Keen Edge, along with all the focus weapon bonuses. Which are best duo against targets that can get critically hit:

+4 Shrieking Kopesh of Rapid Strikes
Increased Critical Threat Range: +1
Paragon Weapon: (I don't get what this does, do i need a +6 weapon in the other hand)
Shrieking II
Double Strike: 2%

+3 Poison Kopesh of Vertigo
Increased Critical Threat Range: +1
Paragon Weapon: (I don't get what this does, do i need a +6 weapon in the other hand)
Poison II
Stumbling II
Red Augment Slot

+3 Axiomatic Kopesh of Bloodletting
Axiomatic II
Bloodletter II

Also, How is Critical Threat Range Calculated. For Kopesh is it 19-20 (normal) then Increased Critical Threat Range: +1 18-20, then kensai Keen edge for 17-20, then Improved Crit for 12-20? Which modifiers, if any, happen before the Improved Critical doubles the threat range?

Thanks!

Saekee
04-04-2015, 08:21 PM
Khopeshes with IC: slashing and keen edge should be 15-20/3. Remember that for a critical hit to cause extra damage, you need to break any enemy's fortification.
In general that is the case in which bloodletter lootgens will proc the exta damage 6 out of 20 attacks or nearly 1/3 the time. Add some nice seeker gear and you are good to go.
(against mobs like undead then look at using instead specific bane damage like disruption).

johnnyputrid
04-04-2015, 09:03 PM
Improved Critical doubles the threat range of a weapon. In the case of a khopesh, it turns 19-20 into 17-20. Keen Edge adds a competence bonus to your threat range, improving it to 15-20. Look for lootgen weapons with on-crit effects burst effects such as Acid Burst of Bloodletting for example. Since you are landing crits often with two weapons with good threat ranges, you'll want on-crit procs going on as much as possible.

Paragon weapons deal increased damage, 1.5 of your weapon's base damage. Epic weapons add another .5, for [2] weapon damage. The +6 number you are seeing is the weapon's enhancement value, not its attack and damage bonuses. A +5 paragon weapon is still a +5 weapon. The weapon's additional effects add to the enhancement value. Enhancement values determine the weapon's minimum level and base damage modifiers. Weapons with an enhancement value of +6 to +10 are paragon weapons, gaining .5 base damage. Weapons with an enhancement value of +11 or higher gain an additional .5 base damage.

Xathris
04-05-2015, 07:44 AM
Improved Critical doubles the threat range of a weapon. In the case of a khopesh, it turns 19-20 into 17-20. Keen Edge adds a competence bonus to your threat range, improving it to 15-20. Look for lootgen weapons with on-crit effects burst effects such as Acid Burst of Bloodletting for example. Since you are landing crits often with two weapons with good threat ranges, you'll want on-crit procs going on as much as possible.

Paragon weapons deal increased damage, 1.5 of your weapon's base damage. Epic weapons add another .5, for [2] weapon damage. The +6 number you are seeing is the weapon's enhancement value, not its attack and damage bonuses. A +5 paragon weapon is still a +5 weapon. The weapon's additional effects add to the enhancement value. Enhancement values determine the weapon's minimum level and base damage modifiers. Weapons with an enhancement value of +6 to +10 are paragon weapons, gaining .5 base damage. Weapons with an enhancement value of +11 or higher gain an additional .5 base damage.

Why would a weapon that is +3 have the paragon ability? It wouldn't get any bonus itself, correct?

Also, does Increased Critical Threat Range stack with Kensai's Keen Edge?

Why does Keen Edge add +2 to the range, is it because Improved Crit doubles it?

FuryFlash
04-05-2015, 10:40 AM
Why would a weapon that is +3 have the paragon ability? It wouldn't get any bonus itself, correct?

Also, does Increased Critical Threat Range stack with Kensai's Keen Edge?

Why does Keen Edge add +2 to the range, is it because Improved Crit doubles it?

~~~~~

Paragon Weapons
Paragon is not based upon the specific enchantments on the weapon, but the total enhancement value they make up. Each enchantment has it's own enhancement value, which is higher the better the enchantment is.

Ex: You have a +3 Flaming Khopesh of Bloodletting (let's say minimum level 14) with a total enhancement value of 8, which is the added up values of (+3), (Flaming) and (Bloodletting).
Note: I don't know actual values for those, that was an example not using real in game values.

The weapon shown above would be a Paragon weapon because it's total enhancement value is between +6 and +10. If it had been higher, it would be Epic. Lower, it would have no bonus.

Now, what Paragon actually does is increase the base damage dice of your weapon.
A longsword normally deals 1d8 damage (1 to 8).
With Paragon, it would be 1.5(1d8) (2 to 12).
With Epic, it would be 2.0(1d8) (2 to 16).
Sorry if my numbers are off, it's simply a comparison. Basically, the intention is to give more damage at certain level intervals; 1 - 9, 10 - 19, 20 - 28 I believe.

Hopefully that helps.

~~~~~

Critical Threat Range and Stacking
Critical Threat Range is a critical part of your damage in melee. :D

Improved Critical is extremely powerful, because it doubles your critical threat range after (almost) all other bonuses are applied. Improved Critical does not stack with Keen/Impact from items.
In the case of your weapon, you have a Khopesh (19-20/x3) which is a critical on 2/20 rolls. It becomes 18-20/x3 with Keen Edge which is a critical on 3/20 rolls. Then, you double it to give 15-20/x3 with Improved Critical which is a critical on 6/20 rolls.

There are many sources of threat range, but most don't stack. Consult this (http://ddowiki.com/page/Threat_range) page for more information on what stacks.

~~~~~

I hope this has answered your questions. :)

FuryFlash
04-05-2015, 11:01 AM
I remember seeing in the forums some site that you can test combat for DDO. Lamina, or something like that. I am interested because I can't figure out which weapons are better. I have a duel-wielding 14F/6RA who is proficient in kopeshes. He also has Improved Crit-Slashing and the Kensai enhancement Keen Edge, along with all the focus weapon bonuses. Which are best duo against targets that can get critically hit:

+4 Shrieking Kopesh of Rapid Strikes
Increased Critical Threat Range: +1
Paragon Weapon: (I don't get what this does, do i need a +6 weapon in the other hand)
Shrieking II
Double Strike: 2%

+3 Poison Kopesh of Vertigo
Increased Critical Threat Range: +1
Paragon Weapon: (I don't get what this does, do i need a +6 weapon in the other hand)
Poison II
Stumbling II
Red Augment Slot

+3 Axiomatic Kopesh of Bloodletting
Axiomatic II
Bloodletter II

Also, How is Critical Threat Range Calculated. For Kopesh is it 19-20 (normal) then Increased Critical Threat Range: +1 18-20, then kensai Keen edge for 17-20, then Improved Crit for 12-20? Which modifiers, if any, happen before the Improved Critical doubles the threat range?

Thanks!

Since I can't see the actual level (specific damage) of each of those enchantments, I couldn't tell you which is better. I'll go in order here based on what I'm seeing:

Each weapon has an additional damage effect that each do about the same damage.
The first two have the Paragon buff, which gives additional base damage.
The first one is +4, compared to the +3 of the others.
If you use augments, you could put more damage on the second one.
Doublestrike from the first one is useful, but wont stack with doublestrike bonuses from other items.
Since I doubt you use trip very often, Stumbling is next to useless.
Bloodletter is excellent on a weapon with high critical threat range like yours.


So:
+4 Shrieking Kopesh of Rapid Strikes <--- Extra +1
Increased Critical Threat Range: +1
Paragon Weapon: (I don't get what this does, do i need a +6 weapon in the other hand) <--- 1.5(1d8)
Shrieking II <--- Most monsters wont resist
Double Strike: 2% <--- Good, but won't stack with other items

+3 Poison Kopesh of Vertigo
Increased Critical Threat Range: +1
Paragon Weapon: (I don't get what this does, do i need a +6 weapon in the other hand) <--- 1.5(1d8)
Poison II <--- Basically no monsters will resist
Stumbling II <--- Useless
Red Augment Slot <--- Only good if it's used

+3 Axiomatic Kopesh of Bloodletting
Axiomatic II <--- Quite a few monsters may resist, but bypasses certain damage reductions
Bloodletter II <--- Great extra damage on crits

Hopefully that will help you choose which is best when you can see them in game. I think that the first one is probably the best if you don't have any other doublestrike items. The last one has the best enchantments but is too low level.

Last point of info, the Increased Critical Threat Range: +1 you are seeing on the first two is the effect of Keen Edge. This is only showing because presumably, you looked at them while they were equipped.

Hope this helps!

Xathris
04-05-2015, 06:01 PM
Since I can't see the actual level (specific damage) of each of those enchantments, I couldn't tell you which is better. I'll go in order here based on what I'm seeing:

Each weapon has an additional damage effect that each do about the same damage.
The first two have the Paragon buff, which gives additional base damage.
The first one is +4, compared to the +3 of the others.
If you use augments, you could put more damage on the second one.
Doublestrike from the first one is useful, but wont stack with doublestrike bonuses from other items.
Since I doubt you use trip very often, Stumbling is next to useless.
Bloodletter is excellent on a weapon with high critical threat range like yours.


So:
+4 Shrieking Kopesh of Rapid Strikes <--- Extra +1
Increased Critical Threat Range: +1
Paragon Weapon: (I don't get what this does, do i need a +6 weapon in the other hand) <--- 1.5(1d8)
Shrieking II <--- Most monsters wont resist
Double Strike: 2% <--- Good, but won't stack with other items

+3 Poison Kopesh of Vertigo
Increased Critical Threat Range: +1
Paragon Weapon: (I don't get what this does, do i need a +6 weapon in the other hand) <--- 1.5(1d8)
Poison II <--- Basically no monsters will resist
Stumbling II <--- Useless
Red Augment Slot <--- Only good if it's used

+3 Axiomatic Kopesh of Bloodletting
Axiomatic II <--- Quite a few monsters may resist, but bypasses certain damage reductions
Bloodletter II <--- Great extra damage on crits

Hopefully that will help you choose which is best when you can see them in game. I think that the first one is probably the best if you don't have any other doublestrike items. The last one has the best enchantments but is too low level.

Last point of info, the Increased Critical Threat Range: +1 you are seeing on the first two is the effect of Keen Edge. This is only showing because presumably, you looked at them while they were equipped.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for all the info! It makes sense now. I didn't know abilities added to the enhancement level. I do know that Keen Edge doesn't stack with Improved Critical.

Saekee
04-05-2015, 07:22 PM
Thanks for all the info! It makes sense now. I didn't know abilities added to the enhancement level. I do know that Keen Edge doesn't stack with Improved Critical.
Keen edge of Tier 5 Kensei DOES stack with feat: improved critical (keen on a weapon such as lootgen or named weapons like Oathblades does not stack with improved critical though)

Otherwise, all those AP and feats needed to qualify for it would be pointless.

Xathris
04-05-2015, 09:48 PM
Keen edge of Tier 5 Kensei DOES stack with feat: improved critical (keen on a weapon such as lootgen or named weapons like Oathblades does not stack with improved critical though)

Otherwise, all those AP and feats needed to qualify for it would be pointless.

Oops, sorry, I meant Keen on a weapon. Thanks for all the info!