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TeacherSyn
03-27-2015, 09:54 AM
I suffered and appreciated the new enhancement trees for the Monk class, but as other classes are getting a finer tune, it's time to look a little harder at this class trees. Here are my thoughts:


A New Tree: While Shintao is clearly Earth Stance aligned, a new tree emphasizes benefits and increases the power of the other Monk stances. You can improve any stance except Earth but your AP would be best spent favoring one stance. Wind would have increased defenses, a knockback wind attack, and add electrical damage and spell power. Fire would greatly increase Fire damage and Fire spell power with more ki generation/regeneration with perhaps an immolation attack that envelopes a target briefly in flames. Ocean would generate a new cold freezing attack (think Tomb of Jade, Freezing Ice version), enemy debuffs, and increased Cold spell power. And the new tree grants the best bonuses to single-class Monks but still adds some happiness to any multiclass with the right stance feats, enough Monk levels, and with unarmed or ki weapon attacks.
Henshin Mystic: Some boosts to spell power without including (but emulating a little) metamagics, but staff attack speed and better ki-powered defenses would be highly appreciated. I shouldn't have to cross-train a Rogue Acrobat to make this happen.
Shintao tanking: While the tree really makes them durable, they could get more defenses. They're a one-trick pony now and could use more versatility.
Ninja Spy: Change anything in this tree and I will blow up the server. :) It's perfect as-is, although a little bonus to shortsword attack speed in upper levels would be nice.


Thoughts on your own changes to the class trees? I hear Severlin is in a listening mood. :)

psykopeta
03-27-2015, 10:33 AM
I suffered and appreciated the new enhancement trees for the Monk class, but as other classes are getting a finer tune, it's time to look a little harder at this class trees. Here are my thoughts:


A New Tree: While Shintao is clearly Earth Stance aligned, a new tree emphasizes benefits and increases the power of the other Monk stances. You can improve any stance except Earth but your AP would be best spent favoring one stance. Wind would have increased defenses, a knockback wind attack, and add electrical damage and spell power. Fire would greatly increase Fire damage and Fire spell power with more ki generation/regeneration with perhaps an immolation attack that envelopes a target briefly in flames. Ocean would generate a new cold freezing attack (think Tomb of Jade, Freezing Ice version), enemy debuffs, and increased Cold spell power. And the new tree grants the best bonuses to single-class Monks but still adds some happiness to any multiclass with the right stance feats, enough Monk levels, and with unarmed or ki weapon attacks.
Henshin Mystic: Some boosts to spell power without including (but emulating a little) metamagics, but staff attack speed and better ki-powered defenses would be highly appreciated. I shouldn't have to cross-train a Rogue Acrobat to make this happen.
Shintao tanking: While the tree really makes them durable, they could get more defenses. They're a one-trick pony now and could use more versatility.
Ninja Spy: Change anything in this tree and I will blow up the server. :) It's perfect as-is, although a little bonus to shortsword attack speed in upper levels would be nice.


Thoughts on your own changes to the class trees? I hear Severlin is in a listening mood. :)

i would take the shintao and make all the skills multiselector, so you choose which stance gets improved by each skill

why? because having 6 trees (4 stances, ninja and henshyn) won't happen, period
in fact i would do the same with savants, fuse em in one

TeacherSyn
03-27-2015, 10:49 AM
i would take the shintao and make all the skills multiselector, so you choose which stance gets improved by each skill

why? because having 6 trees (4 stances, ninja and henshyn) won't happen, period
in fact i would do the same with savants, fuse em in one

I'm just suggesting one new tree for a total of four (Shintao, Mystic, Ninja, Other). Rather than multi-selector, if I understand you right, I'd rather have a Monk make a commitment as they usually had to do with stances in the pre-pass days and AP limits. You can still mix and match but the more points into a certain stance track, the better.

LuKaSu
03-27-2015, 10:54 AM
i would take the shintao and make all the skills multiselector, so you choose which stance gets improved by each skill

why? because having 6 trees (4 stances, ninja and henshyn) won't happen, period


That's a solid idea.



in fact i would do the same with savants, fuse em in one

That might be going too far, though. Since you can put points into more than one savant tree as it stands, this would just be removing options from the game. And the fact that they would be doing a significant amount of work for essentially no return on investment.

I'd also like to see more Shuriken enhancements in the Ninja Spy tree. Off the top of my head, all I can think of that significantly help Shurikens are the level 3 core and the capstone. I went back to the wiki and found one more: Sting of the Ninja, which applies poison on critical hits. So, still, not that much.

ToastyFred
03-27-2015, 11:24 AM
I would like to see a Shintao (or perhaps Ninja Spy) enhancement that allows Monks to wear Light Armor (including Mithril Plating for WF/BF) and still be centered. Fighters can get an enhancement that allows them to use non-monk weapons and still be centered so I think it's only fair Monks should be able to use at least Light Armor and still be centered. You could call the enhancement "Armored Monk." There would be one tier of it and it would cost 2 APs. Put it up at tier 4 or 5 in either of the trees but don't make it a core ability.

TeacherSyn
03-27-2015, 11:27 AM
That might be going too far, though. Since you can put points into more than one savant tree as it stands, this would just be removing options from the game. And the fact that they would be doing a significant amount of work for essentially no return on investment.

I'd also like to see more Shuriken enhancements in the Ninja Spy tree. Off the top of my head, all I can think of that significantly help Shurikens are the level 3 core and the capstone. I went back to the wiki and found one more: Sting of the Ninja, which applies poison on critical hits. So, still, not that much.

Given how shuriken-throwing (with the Shuricannon build at least) is a monster DPS as it stands, I'm not sure if anything more should be done without overpowering the Ninja Spy build at it is. Maybe a better early level improvement, sure, but nothing that is ultimately added to the higher levels. My thrower can solo the Shroud, it's that powerful.

As noted, no, a single tree and not a series of Savant-like trees. You pick a stance focus and build from there. You can always reset a tree and choose a different focus, however, but AP limits keep the power in check.

Before Update 22 or so, Sting of the Ninja was awesome for added Ninja Poison damage with throwing. But since then, a bug that's not seen a fix has prevented poison application unless you use a Cannith Crafted star only.

Saekee
03-27-2015, 03:14 PM
I think the general suggestion of modifying Henshin to add attack speed to Staves and better scaling with spell power for their cores would work. Also something that gives more than earth stance for options in Shintao although let's face it, everyone will take earth stance anyway (unless it is a ranged monk).

I would mainly change ninja spy to add expanded crit multiplier as well as range for shortswords and kamas. Extending the range is ok but it is not that strong; a level 3 bard is modifying a kama and short sword better than a level 20 ninja master which is ridiculous (that said, I do not think swashbuckling should be the measure for changes).

I would decrease the cost for faster sneaking; add more options for ki generation; and I would get void strike out of the Tier 5 henshin somehow.

TeacherSyn
03-31-2015, 08:40 AM
I think the general suggestion of modifying Henshin to add attack speed to Staves and better scaling with spell power for their cores would work. Also something that gives more than earth stance for options in Shintao although let's face it, everyone will take earth stance anyway (unless it is a ranged monk).

I would mainly change ninja spy to add expanded crit multiplier as well as range for shortswords and kamas. Extending the range is ok but it is not that strong; a level 3 bard is modifying a kama and short sword better than a level 20 ninja master which is ridiculous (that said, I do not think swashbuckling should be the measure for changes).

I would decrease the cost for faster sneaking; add more options for ki generation; and I would get void strike out of the Tier 5 henshin somehow.

Good suggestions. especially getting back a lesser Void Strike back into the mix. You don't think that vorpalling ninjas trump the Bard's weaponry? Not that I wouldn't mind improved swordplay for a ninja--and bonuses for a single blade or shuriken user.