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View Full Version : Monks and orb uncentering revisit



Delacroix21
03-26-2015, 10:19 AM
It's is well known that Melee monks in ddo are lagging behind in dps due in part to poor game coding of enhanced critical profiles working on every weapon except unarmed. This and the limiting choice of Melee weapons to chose from.


Monk is supposed to have flurry of blows and extra attacks to compensate for using these poor crit profile weapons, but since flurry of blows only adds bab, and wind stance attack speed doesn't stack with speed 15 items or haste, they attack at the same rate as other Melee characters with their inferior weapons.


Where do orbs fit in?


Orbs uncentering monks are a huge issue for SWF monks, as they are literally the ONLY class in the game to suffer from this (proficiency or no). So now you force 1 class to use inferior weapons with inferior crit profiles and then tack on the loss of offhand bonuses, this is just horrible by design. You can't build monks this way without giving them something to compensate.


Please remove the uncentering aspect of orbs (is just a gem etc in your hand not a big deal where I monk would say woah! I can't use any of my martial arts as this ball in my hand is so distracting!). This will allot SWF monks to have the same offhand bonuses that EVERY other class receives, and will still leave them with inferior weapons and inferior crit profiles.

ddorimble
03-26-2015, 10:35 AM
This will allot SWF monks to have the same offhand bonuses that EVERY other class receives, and will still leave them with inferior weapons and inferior crit profiles.

But what will allow those other builds to benefit from the wonderful stance bonuses that your Monk enjoys? Why do you get their goodies but they don't get your goodies? Why not throw Rune Arms in there too?

I don't necessarily think orbs should naturally allow centering, but Enhancements to allow it may make sense in the Eldritch Knight tree, or maybe Henshin Mystic if Turbine is feeling super nice (although it doesn't make much sense in a tree centered around Quarterstaves).

Delacroix21
03-26-2015, 10:52 AM
But what will allow those other builds to benefit from the wonderful stance bonuses that your Monk enjoys? Why do you get their goodies but they don't get your goodies? ).

As I said: these classes use better weapons with better crit profiles. That is what they get.


As far as stances let's see what we have:
Wind: doublestrike is enhancement and doesn't stack with other enhancment, attack speed doesn't stack
Fire: 4 strength is +2-3 damage, the extra ki on hit is meaningless
Water: nice save bonus that does stack, dodge irrelevant as most are capped without it
Earth: +1 crit multi on 19-20 adds a trivial amount of dps, 20% AC boost lets them catch up to AC of armored characters (outfit armor bonus has not scaled at the same level as armor bonuses with each update).

So these minor stance buffs help but don't break the game, also non monks gain more PRR and mr from armor.

ddorimble
03-26-2015, 11:09 AM
Eh, it's still just merging classes together into the same mish-mash of stuff, that's no good. I'd like to see what's in store for Monk enhancement passes before changing anything currently about centering. It's a good reminder to the devs to not forget SWF for Monks though.

unbongwah
03-26-2015, 11:57 AM
What this boils down to is "monk DPS is too low - buff monks!" I'd prefer to see Turbine buff the PrEs - maybe add extra crit bonuses to ki weapons in Ninja, moar unarmed bonuses in Shintao - rather than make orbs center-able.

bsquishwizzy
03-26-2015, 12:30 PM
Where do orbs fit in?


Casters. That's where they fit in. Not monks.

Nor should they have proficiency with these, and they should make them un-centered in their use.

I'm sorry your monk cannot do everything you utterly desire it should do, but my pure caster doesn't have evasion...nor should he without giving something up.

General_Gronker
03-26-2015, 05:44 PM
It's is well known that Melee monks in ddo are lagging behind in dps

No, they aren't. That simple fact kinda kills your premise.

Sehenry03
03-27-2015, 07:16 PM
Orbs should be caster related and not be exploited by paladins or monks or any melee class.

doubledge
03-27-2015, 09:05 PM
I'm on the boat with saying that orbs should uncenter monks.


HOWEVER: do you know what i think SHOULDN'T uncenter monks?

Daggers. When in ninja spy, they can use shortswords, but they can't use daggers. IMO all monks should be able to be centered with daggers.

FuzzyDuck81
03-30-2015, 03:58 AM
HOWEVER: do you know what i think SHOULDN'T uncenter monks?

Daggers. When in ninja spy, they can use shortswords, but they can't use daggers. IMO all monks should be able to be centered with daggers.

Agreed - a pair of cosmetic sais just aren't the same

JOTMON
03-30-2015, 09:34 AM
Orbs should be caster related and not be exploited by paladins or monks or any melee class.

like Bards.

I would like to be able to have an orb on my cleric/monk.. but I can deal with out the orb.
I don't see the point of screwing over monks & monk splashes from benefitting from orbs..
Sure, some caster splash Monk would opt to orb and evade... but is it really necessary to uncenter not like their single weapon main hand weapon is going to benefit better than going handwraps. or qstaff

Would rather see more of the special rages uncentering monks.. like madstone, Fury....
Monks are about serenity and ki and shtuff... rage should break monk stances/ or not benefit from rage as their focussed mind does not permit them to rage.


Casters still need a way to slot the orb onto the staff.
weapon set it or something to allow the orb and the staff to be used at the same time.


I think Monks should be able to wield light finessable weapons
Monks are about Martial Arts.. and Martial Arts embrace many light finessable weapons.
like kukir's, daggers, hand axes, light maces...
let the monks spend enhancement points at low level to remain centered with these.
1 point for a select light finessable weapon, 2 for a 2nd one, 3 for all light finessable weapons.
Opens up opportunity to use all these neglected light finessable weapons.

Enderoc
04-03-2015, 06:16 AM
How about a feat with a requisite of combat expertise like deflective strikes that give monks better shielding should they wish ? Give AC and dodge bonuses. It should come with a kung fu type animation when you are blocking...and when you attack while blocking it should give an attempt to improve feint or something automatically. Which would be another prerequisite perhaps for that portion...though should be not be required.

SirValentine
04-04-2015, 07:25 PM
I'm on the boat with saying that orbs should uncenter monks.


HOWEVER: do you know what i think SHOULDN'T uncenter monks?

Daggers. When in ninja spy, they can use shortswords, but they can't use daggers. IMO all monks should be able to be centered with daggers.

Agreed that Orbs are not appropriate for Monks.

However, I see your Daggers, and raise you:


Club, Heavy Crossbow, Light Crossbow, Handaxe



Weapons that the Monk class automatically grants proficiency in should be centered weapons. Why would all Monks automatically learn proficiency in weapons that destroy their Monk abilities?

doubledge
04-05-2015, 09:54 AM
Agreed that Orbs are not appropriate for Monks.

However, I see your Daggers, and raise you:


Club, Heavy Crossbow, Light Crossbow, Handaxe



Weapons that the Monk class automatically grants proficiency in should be centered weapons. Why would all Monks automatically learn proficiency in weapons that destroy their Monk abilities?

I agree that club and handaxe are another pair of weapons that should be available for centering. (HOWEVER: this should be with AP: shortswords don't center until you take ninja spy, so handaxes should NOT be centering till you spend that AP)

On the other hand, monks are proficient with crossbows not because it centers them, but because crossbows are easy to learn.

Handaxe dwarven ninja spy... heh.

Regardlessly, yes, I agree that clubs and handaxes would be nice to add to centering. Crossbows, on the other hand, i'm against. (not like anyone uses non-repeating, non-great crossbows anymore)