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View Full Version : Acrobat Idea/feedback and Overall Melee changes



Ballyspringer
03-25-2015, 09:02 PM
I started out writing this in the Acrobat feedback thread and after touching on other melee builds and overall ideas for class distinction with overall balance I thought it would be more appropriate here instead to be debated.

I want to start with that I REALLY appreciate the time and effort that has gone into into creating different options on builds. I think there is more variety in "end game" (if there is such a thing now which I would strongly debate there isn't but I'm hoping there will be once the cap is maxed at 30) builds than at any other time that I remember in my years playing. For example I like that you can do a dex or int based melee staff toon and have fun with it. What I do find discouraging though is the lack of boosts to dex compared to how easy it is to get lots of extra strength without much else to make up for it. I was hoping in the updated acrobat line tweaks it would address this but no sadly. If you're not going to give us a lot of options to boost dex (like a dex divine might clone or primal scream dex clone) how about something else instead?

I'm not saying a dex build should do as much raw dps as a str build cause that's just crazy and I think would be horribly broken, however I think dex based (especially rogue acrobats) should have some more incentive besides flavor. If you're not going to give us a lot of options to boost dex (like a dex divine might clone or primal scream dex clone) how about like:

considerably more double strike if you are a dex build (yes swift strikes is great but it's not that much more than you can get on a non rogue toon).

considerably more stacking armor penetration (stacks with black dragon armor or TF weapons) if you have an int based build (possibly have this for dex based too but if that is the case I would not do the extra double strike option also as that would be too much)

Here's an even more insane thought along with the above options, but do one or both of the above without giving more ways to boost dexterity with dex based, but then to make up for that in addition to not giving extra dex, make the extra ability score modifier to damage that THF and SWF get currently apply only apply to barbarians, fighters, and possibly monks (monk is debatable to me although this would only impact staff and kama monks really and not effect unarmed or thrower builds at all) who should be the true experts in melee weapons IMO? And yes this would hurt almost all of my current builds I have now but it could help bring class clarity while still giving some balance and reasons to play everything.

As for why I say Barbarians, Fighters, Monks (again monks I'm not sure about) and not other classes are those are the classes that are really spec'd for melee dps without a lot of other perks.

Pally I would say no with the reason they get the added perks of extra dmg spells like holy sword and zeal and some healing spells. This would also make it so Holy Sword would not have to be nerfed!
Bard I would say no with the reason they also get their songs and some healing spells.
Rangers I would say no because again they get some healing spells and other beneficial spells AND get TWF and ranged feats automatically without having to use selected feats which is a huge bonus.
Arti, Druid, Sorc, Wiz, FvS, and Cleric I hope are obvious on why not based on the reasons above for pally bard and ranger.

So I'm sure this will bring out some good discussion pro and con (probably more con) and I'm sure I'm forgetting something that makes this all a moot point but wanted to throw this down in here prior to forgetting my rant.

Saekee
03-26-2015, 07:52 AM
This won't help your staff build but once upon a time TWF Dex builds got full offhand stat damage instead of half. Time to revisit it.

Bloodskittle
04-01-2015, 08:59 PM
I'm seriously against nerfing anything really, all nerfing does is destroy peoples builds. The devs should spend more time making things not OP before implementing them rather than making something OP and then nerfing it.


However I can see a dex to damage style getting more double strike and INT to attack getting more fort bypass, these things make sense to me and put them on more of an even keel with STR based styles, however STR should stay king of the DPS as it is really only with brute force that it makes sense to be able to hit 5k on a single swing.

Ikeas
04-02-2015, 04:04 AM
I'm seriously against nerfing anything really, all nerfing does is destroy peoples builds. The devs should spend more time making things not OP before implementing them rather than making something OP and then nerfing it.

Couldn't agree more.

As per the OP... I'm OK with one damage option being the best (STR usually). The problem is when all the other options are just lame, so STR is the only real option in the end.

Many good options, one better =/= Many options, only one good.

General_Gronker
04-02-2015, 01:32 PM
still giving some balance

None of your suggestions would do that. If you want to balance the game, you need to go back in time and ride herd over the first developers. Otherwise, you have to convince the current team to scale everything back and basically start over. And they don't seem real interested in that. They seem interested in continuing the power creep.

Enderoc
04-03-2015, 06:25 AM
Acrobats I think should be able to pole vault in a way that allows a greater jump than what is now allowed both in height and width. With it there should be a tumbling strike which allows an attack from a fall. Maybe with whirlwind strike as a prerequisite where it creates a spinning attack until touchdown.

Ballyspringer
04-04-2015, 10:18 AM
Thank you to those who replied, I agree that things just shouldn't be OP to start with and the power creep is insane with every update which I think is the main issue to the game right now (besides the worst lag of any game I've played). Fact is though that so many people are screaming constantly GIVE ME SOMETHING BETTER. It's a business and Turbine listens.

As for the game mechanics, Turbine has been willing to change core parts of the game (melee/spell power, no more D20 for everything damage) and the buffs to SWF are new, so I could see them at least considering some changes.


Acrobats I think should be able to pole vault in a way that allows a greater jump than what is now allowed both in height and width. With it there should be a tumbling strike which allows an attack from a fall. Maybe with whirlwind strike as a prerequisite where it creates a spinning attack until touchdown.

This at first I didn't like at all, the extra jump I think would end up breaking quests creating more things that could be skipped unintentionally and the devs would have to create more floor to ceiling walls especially in outdoor areas (remember the big top shortcut a while ago?).

But then I thought about your second part, changing vault in the acrobat tree to add in something like the LD Lay waste ability without the extra [W] to damage - like vault through the air and upon landing perform a whirlwind AOE attack that KD's everything you hit with a balance check of 10+Char Level+Dex modifiers+Trip modifiers+ number of acrobat core abilities to negate. I kinda think that would be fun :D